RootsChat.Com
Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: ibbotson on Monday 14 June 21 08:11 BST (UK)
-
There is a link to a probate record on a certain website for a Margaret Mackintosh died 5 Dec 1912 Edinburgh. Could anyone assist with details. Thank you.
-
Do you definitely know that she left a will or had an inventory confirmed (confirmation is the Scottish equivalent of probate)?
I have had a look on ScotlandsPeople for wills and/or inventories for Margaret Mackintosh, using all spellings, from 1912 to 1925 and nothing comes up. The nearest is a Miss Margaret Davie MacIntosh who died at Edinburgh on 5-7-1913.
-
I looked at the image of the printed calendar, though the death date was 5/12/1912 the year the entry was in the calendar was 1927. She did die testate so a will exists and the calendar says the inventory was given up at Edinburgh on 12th Aug 1927.
SP only have the wills/inventories up to 1925 currently.
The National Records of Scotland has the info about later wills/inventories
https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/research/guides/wills-and-testaments
Boo
-
There is no such thing as probate in Scots law.
When someone dies domiciled in Scotland, the estate is dealt with in the Scottish courts, by the process of Confirmation. All Confirmations to 1925 are listed on the Scotland's People web site under 'Legal Records'.
If, and only if, the person owned property in England or Wales, the Scottish Confirmation is then Sealed in an English or Welsh court. Sealings of estates in the English/Welsh courts are listed along with Probates on the official government web site https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/#wills. These are organised by the date of probate/sealing, not by the date of death, so it's always wise to search the year of death and a few later years. (I usually search for five years but some do take even longer than that if there are complications.)
FindMyPast has an index to the English/Welsh Calendar of Probate, which includes Sealings of estates Confimed in Scotland. (This is not, however, accessed via the 'Wills and Probate' tab as you would expect, but via the 'Civil Deaths and Burials' tab.)
I have searched all three of the above (using Macintosh, Mackintosh, McIntosh and McKintosh), and, as GR2 says, there is no listing of a Margaret MacIntosh who died on 5 December 1912.
A Miss* Margaret Mackintosh, aged 74, died in Edinburgh St Andrew in 1912, but her death registration was No 8, which means she must have died very early in January, or possibly on one of the last few days of December 1911 (it was at that time obligatory to register a death within eight days). There are three more deaths of Margaret M*c*n*t*s*h in Edinburgh in 1912, but all three were married women.
*I am assuming that your Margaret Mackintosh was 'Miss' because in Scotland a married woman is listed by both her maiden and her married surname, and the England/Wales Calendar of Probate lists both surnames of married women whose Scottish Confirmation was Sealed in England/Wales.
-
Thanks for info. The info I originally had is that she and husband George went to Winnipeg Manitoba in 1911 and she died there 1912. So perhaps the will was registered a lot later.
-
Ah, that makes rather a lot of difference.
But there is no listing of the death of a Margaret M(a)c(k)intosh on 5 December 1912 at https://vitalstats.gov.mb.ca/Query.php ???
-
Ah, that makes rather a lot of difference.
But there is no listing of the death of a Margaret M(a)c(k)intosh on 5 December 1912 at https://vitalstats.gov.mb.ca/Query.php ???
It would seem that the official printed Calendar of Confirmations is in error. (database with images on Ancestry: Calendar of Confirmations and Inventories 1876 - 1936)
The death registration entry on SP has this lady as dying at 10 Dublin St, Edinburgh on 5th JANUARY 1912 death registered by her nephew J M Cowper
The calendar shows the entry in 1927 , death date 5th DECEMBER 1912,address 10 Dublin St., Edinburgh inventory given up 12th August (though a year is not specified within the entry the calendar is dated 1927) by nephew James McDougal Cowper, executor.
Both are official entries but they differ, so one or the other is incorrect. It would be reasonable to assume its the calendar.
Not just commercial sites that make errors , officialdom does too :-)
EDIT , the death register says this lady was single, so unlikely to be the person the OP was looking for if the info about her marriage and emigration is verified as being correct.
Boo
-
The calendar of confirmations, as Boo has already indicated, gives a date of death of 5 Dec 1912. It states she died in Edinburgh with an address of 10 Dublin Street.
Interestingly the very next entry in the calendar is for a Mary Anne Mackintosh of the same address who died in 1927. The executor is the same for both ladies further suggesting a connection.
The Scotsman 9 April 1927 has a report of the death of Miss Mary Ann Mackintosh - she was 87 years old.
William
-
Sounds like a joint will that only had to be executed when the second testator died, perhaps?
And there was no grant of probate because the estate was dealt with in Scotland and never sealed in England/Wales, which explains why it doesn't appear on https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/#wills or in the index at FindMyPast.
-
The Scotsman 6 Jan 1912 has this death notice:
Mackintosh - At 10 Dublin Street, on the 5th inst, Margaret, eldest daughter of the late John Mackintosh, Edinburgh.
William
-
Sounds like a joint will that only had to be executed when the second testator died, perhaps?
And there was no grant of probate because the estate was dealt with in Scotland and never sealed in England/Wales, which explains why it doesn't appear on https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/#wills or in the index at FindMyPast.
Margaret's will was dated 7th August 1911 and Mary Anne's was dated 26 Dec 1923 so not a joint will.
I'd think it much more likely (but that's just conjecture) that Margaret's will named her sister Mary Anne as her beneficiary and James was her executor and he didn't bother going through the process when Margaret died.
So when Mary Anne died he'd have to deal with Margaret's will and inventory first to then be able to deal with Mary Anne's.
probate/confirmation are just different terms used by each legal system. The process has the same aim - to prove that a will is valid and that the person who is dealing with the disposal of the estate has been officially recognised to do so.
Probate - a will is proved to be valid. Confirmation - a will is confirmed to be valid.
Boo
-
You folks are too quick for my fat fingers...
She died 08 Apr 1927 Royal Infirmary usual residence 10 Dublin St. She died of burns and there is an RCE confirming an accidental death. Cowper was the informant. Father John was a shoemaker mother Christian Campbell and this one is single.
Don