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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Cockneyrebel on Monday 14 June 21 11:27 BST (UK)
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Henry was the eldest son of Walter Page 1829-1890 and Elizabeth Minderman 1830-1899. He was a ship's steward when he married Julia Garrety in Quebec on 6 Nov 1871, they had 2 children, Henry James born 16 Aug 1872, and Elizabeth Louisa born 4 Jan 1874 or 1875 in Poplar. Henry divorced Julia on 29/3/1883 due to her adultery with William Hollis. The children were living with their Page grandparents in 1881 but I can't find them after that, other than Elizabeth marrying Alfred Thomas Caton on 26 Dec 1898 at Poplar, to which her brother was a witness.
Henry D appears to have married again Q1 1884 at Woolwich to Bertha Ida Hulsmann or Hulsman or Ann Smith-I can't find any of them at 1891. Then married yet again Q4 1901 at Kensington to Mabel Augusta Baker or Isabel Magrath; again I can't find them at 1911?
Henry died in 1934 and was buried 17 May 1934 at Battle, Sussex.
The whole is a sad tale but a mystery too?
Cr
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The 1884 marriage looks likely to have been to Ann Smith, as there are Kafske/Hulsman male twins b&d Woolwich in Dec qtr 1884.
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Similarly, you can pair up the “other” couple on the 1901 marriage by the birth of Joan Patricia Gwelo Goodman mmn Baker, Jun qtr 1905 Kensington, leaving Isabel Magrath as the bride for Henry D Page.
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Thank you avm228 I never thought of looking for children of the likely couples.
Cr
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Is this him in South Africa ?
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QVSH-VWDN
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QVSH-VWZP
His wife is named as Dorothy Isabel . so maybe not ?
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It looks very likely Christine53 as the 1901 marriage was to an Isabel Magrath who may have changed her name to Dorothy?
Also the son, Henry James seems to have been a mason at Port Elizabeth 1903.
Cr
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Here is the death record for Dorothy Isabel Magrath Page in South Africa in 1948 :
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:WQCD-BG6Z
confirms we're on the right track :)
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Wonderful research, Christine, certainly confirms it, I wonder why Henry died in Sussex? I've been searching for her birth record but can't find it?
Cr
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I wonder if Henry Detherick Page possibly married a 4th time.
Henry D Page/Marion C Fisher 1919 Camberwell.
In 1925/6 electoral roll in Oxfordshire are Henry Detherick Page & Marion Carter Page. He is at the address of Harcourt Arms Inn ( possibly a pub) this would appear to tie in with his occupation when his two children were born in South Africa in 1905 & 1907
There's a death in Folkestone 1947 aged 84 for a Marion C Page aged 84 (c1863)
John
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The Marion C Page who died in 1947 was Marion Clements Page so not our lady.
John
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Interesting johnhood, Henry must've liked wedding cake!
Cr
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I do not have worldwide membership of Anc* but this record might prove interesting.
John
South Africa, Miscellaneous Court Records Index, 1652-2004, 2008-2011
Court, governmental & criminal records
Record information.
Name
Henry Detherick Page
Residence
year South Africa
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I do not have worldwide membership of Anc* but this record might prove interesting.
John
South Africa, Miscellaneous Court Records Index, 1652-2004, 2008-2011
Court, governmental & criminal records
Record information.
Name
Henry Detherick Page
Residence
year South Africa
I do have Worldwide , but this record is an Index only record with no image attached. It gives year 1907 and a reference v 2/3019 ref 738 source id 63342 , but that's all.
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I have it john but there is no document and it says very little other than his name and 1907 but:
Volume Number: 2/3019
Reference Number: 738
Source ID: 63342
Cr
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According to the 1925 & 1926 Oxford electoral rolls, Henry was living with Marion Castle-was this her maiden name?
Cr
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Something else to check out
Henry married Ann Smith in Woolwich in 1884. There is a birth of a Gertrude Page mq 1885 Woolwich with mmn Smith
1891 census
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QLDH-5ZM
Believe the Anne Page aged 1 on that census is Annie Cole Page born Upton Essex. Upton is in West Ham
PAGE, ANNIE COLE mmn SMITH
GRO Reference: 1889 D Quarter in WEST HAM Volume 04A Page 115
John
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According to the 1925 & 1926 Oxford electoral rolls, Henry was living with Marion Castle-was this her maiden name?
Cr
Still trying to work that out!!
John
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Think this is Gertrude and sister Annie in 1901 census
RG13; Piece: 3444; Folio: 85; Page: 4
John
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Yes john I found Gertrude there before I knew about Annie, the place is a Convent Boarding school so I guess they must've been orphans if their mother died before Q1 1901 when Henry married again?
Cr
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Found RC baptism for Gertrude 20/12/1884 at Woolwich, St Peter the Apostle, godparents William Smith & Evelina Sloane.
Cr
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Got wrong way round dob was 20/12/1884 bapt 05 Jan 1885.
Cr
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Is this the possible death of Annie Cole Page, lots add up.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C91V-VQD2-N?cc=3732506&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3A81MN-L56Z
John
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Marriage and Death of Gertrude, do you have all this info.
John
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C91L-N7V7?cc=3732506&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3A6Z9X-6NYF
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-DTN7-FJT?i=1252&cc=2063749
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Death of Frank Stocks, names children.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS75-1D2C?cc=2573604&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AQPH6-QJLK
John
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A Miss A R Cole-Page aged 48 Welfare Worker sailed from Southampton to Port Elizabeth 26.8. 1938. Previos address The Tipping, Stokenchurch, High Wycombe.
John
Added also travelled as Miss R Cole-Page 25.11.1919--occ "Nurse"
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Marriage of Frank & Gertrudes son Mervyn & daughters Joan & Norelle
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6S49-KWQ?i=2003&cc=2063749&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AKDZ3-FX9
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-DZB3-9YX?i=1089&cc=2063749
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-DCN7-7C3?i=1639&cc=2063749
John
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Possible death of Henry (Harry) James Page 1872.Only fly in the ointment is says he was born in Wales, but no GRO record of a birth in Wales.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BY-R3WR?cc=2998108&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3A74XG-CR2M
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSSW-N3DX-6?i=160&cc=2520237
John
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Thank you so much johnhood, looks like you got well and truly stuck into the SA records at Family Search which I would never have found ( I can't get the hang of their records!). I would guess that Henry James being single didn't have any family in that area of SA so nobody would've known where he was born, and, looks like he either died in a house fire or suicide.
Once again thank you very much for your persistent research.
Cr
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The only 2 we're missing are Henry's 2 children Nora Eily Page and Thomas Henry Detherick Page who were both born in Aliwal North, Eastern Cape, 1905 & 1907 respectively? Presumably, they stayed in SA and as Nora had a private baptism might she have died shortly afterward?
Cr
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Death of Nora Eily Page :
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:4G92-PTN2
Thomas Henry Detherick Page marriage :
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:6ZCM-W2TW
Birth of his son :
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:8C69-VZ2M
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Cockneyrebel, do you have access to findmypast? If so I can post a couple of ref for you to look at. If not can do another post with details.
John
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Christine you were quick off the mark with those records, thank you very much.
john yes I have access to FindMyPast.
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Ok, newspaper article for Thomas Henry dated 13.1.1939 Rugby Advertiserre his forthcoming marriage. Mentions a previous visit 2 years earlier to the uk with his mother.
Sailing departure record dated 6.8.1937 from Southampton to Cape. With his mother Mrs D I Page.
John
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The only mystery I cannot solve is who was Marion Castle Fisher. Suppose the only way of finding out is her marriage cert to Henry in 1919. Anyone else any ideas??
John
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I found the article johnhood and I already had a 'hint' from FindMyPast that Letitia was born Q3 1909 in Rugby.
Thank you.
Cr
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I wonder if Henry took Marion to SA?
Cr
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I've sent off for the Page & Fisher marriage cert.
Cr
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Well done, you MUST let us all know what it records, I’m as interested as you. Have a good day
John
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Yes certainly will.
Cr
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Thank you, this news is really exciting, so good to be able to add names and dates to my list.
Is the Henry James Detherick Page married in 1901 to Dorothy Isabel Magrath Page with the 2 children born in SA the son of Henry Detherick Page?
Also more wedding cake in New Zealand......2 weddings in NZ....and a birth in Sydney, Australia
7th March 1908 Henry James Detherick Page - Bachelor born in Quebec, married in Palmerston North, NZ, to Dora Wilkins nee Waud (widow).Born in London
22nd February 1912 - Henry James Page, born in Quebec (widow Feb 1910) married in Christchurch, NZ, to Julia North. Born in Guilford, England
26th May 1913 A son - Henry Benjamin Lou Page, Born in Sydney Australia
Father - Henry James Page born in Canada, previous marriage 1907 Guilford, England
Mother - Julia Page (North) born in Leatherhead, England
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The Henry James Detherick Page who married 1901 to Dorothy Isabel Magrath Page with the 2 children born in SA was the son of Walter Page & Elizabeth Minderman, I assume that the Detherick name came from Elizabeth's side of the family.
As to the other marriages that you mention in NZ they are not Henry J D's and the majority of his children from 3 of 4 marriages died in SA.
Dubby are you related to this family?
Cr
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Hi Christine
Thanks for the clarification on that marriage.
The marriages ceritificates in NZ for the :
7th March 1908 marriage - Henry James Page (Hotel Proprietor) has his
Father as Henry Detherick Page - Hotel Proprietor, South Africa
Mother as Julia Page Garrety
22nd Feb 1912 marriage - Henry James Detherick Page has his
Father as Henry Detherick Page - Retired
Mother as Julia Page Garrety
There are several shipping records for a JD Page listed as crew between London and New Zealand between the years 1907-1921
Do you think there is a connection?
Possibly related, but require more verification to know for sure.
Dubby
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Seems very likely for the son of Henry D whose son was Henry James who was born 16 Aug 1872 in Poplar, Middlesex, England-how Quebec I don't know but his father and mother are correct.
I presume Christine confirmed the marriages from the NZ board?
Cr
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Deleted
John
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Hi
Does anyone have a copy of the full marriage certificate for Henry Detherick Page to Dorothy Isabel Magrath in 1901 London, listing their ages and naming their parents?
Dubby
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I don't.
Cr
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Thanks Cr
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Have just received marriage certificate for Henry and Marion. It says 28/7/1919 at Register Office, Henry D aged 52 Batchelor? Restaurant Manager and Marion Castle Fisher spinster aged 38, both lived at Colby Avenue and The Avenue respectively in Gypsy Hill, (is that Lambeth?). Witnesses H E Gibson and what looks like G H B Page.
Can't find a death record for Marion?
Cr
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Cockneyrebel, does it name respective fathers and their occupations?
John
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Sorry john forgot but they were: Walter Page deceased confectioner, Charles Fisher deceased blacksmith.
Cr
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Marion Castle Fisher has defeated me I'm afraid.
John
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Looking at Ancestry for her name brought up a few with Castle derived from similar names as with Marion Cassells Fisher whose father was Charles. Marion born 21 Nov 1881 Dennistoun, Lanark, Scotland it says and could be a possibility? Maybe she went back to Scotland after Henry's death?
On another point did Dubby find the marriage cert for Dorothy Isabel Magrath and Henry?
Cr
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Well done cockneyrebel. I did look at her ie Marion cassells fisher but dismissed her. Her father appears in both 1881/91 census as a blacksmith and Marion in 1891 is recorded as Minnie aged 9. So now need to find her death
John
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Yes maybe SP can help if she returned to Scotland?
Cr