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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Denbighshire => Topic started by: Mendomaid on Monday 14 June 21 18:58 BST (UK)
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I would appreciate some comments. Mary Hughes was under age - does than mean under 16?
- Both the fathers' are 'collier' - . coal miner or charcoal burners but it looks like they are all living aboard the ship 'South Seas'. Collier also refers to a coal ship.
Just want to make sure I am seeing all the information in this record. I have not found other records and wonder if she was at sea when the censuses were taken. She had a daughter, Annie Parry, 1877 • Llangernyw, Denbighshire, Wales.
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Hi
Southsea is a township near Wrexham.
Minor = under 21.
Gadget
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Link
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southsea,_Wrexham
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Thanks, Gadget. If I had looked at a map I would have seen that Southsea was near Broughton. And Mary could be as old as 20. That may help me find her.
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Can I check on Annie's birth year? I have found an Annie Parry, bpt Llangernyw in March 1897 but nothing for 1877.
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The daughter of Thomas Parry, Annie Parry, 1877 • Llangernyw, Denbighshire, Wales
I did find a Thomas Hughes b. abt 1826, Collier, in the 1851 and 1861 censuses. His wife in those censuses was Rebecca but he did have a daughter, Mary Hughes b. abt 1847, Wrexham in the 1851 census but missing in the 1861 census. Thomas' birth place on the censuses was ABT 1826 • Adwyu Clawd OR Wrexham, Denbighshire, Wales. In the 1861 census the family living next to him had 2 members born at Southsea.
Just before I saw your response I found a 1871 Brynpolyn census that showed a Mary Hughes b. abt 1846 St. George who was a nurse to a Lodge family. This Mary may be my connection to two other 4th to distant cousins. Two of them are descended from a Hugh Hughes 1796 Abergele who had children born at St. George, Denbighshire.
The match that I am working with is a descendant of Annie Parry
BIRTH ABT 1877 • Llangernyw, Denbighshire, Wales
DEATH Tonpentre, Glamorgan, Wales She m. David Rowland Evans b. Montgomeryshire.
In his tree Annie's father was Thomas Parry 1842 • Tyn, Terfyn, OR LLANGERNIEW DENBIGHSHIRE
DEATH 1919 • St Asaph, Denbighshire, Wales who had an unknown wife. I am looking for evidence that a Mary Hughes was his wife. It does not seem that the marriage record of this couple living in Southsea is the right one although other Hughes Denbighshire matches have ancestors from Henllan down to Chirk and then Parishes west of there.
Thanks, Marian
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Using the GRO index there is no Annie Parry registered at Llanrwst district (includes Llangernyw)
with mothers name Hughes.
There is a Mary 1876 Parry and a Jane Parry 1878 with mothers name Hughes
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Marion
Are you taking your information from various trees that you link to via DNA? Many of such trees are inaccurate and should always be backed up by published sources.
Both amondg and I have looked for an Annie Parry and can only find the ones listed. None of which appear to be the one you mention.
I think you have to start your search with your own Parry/Hughes line and work back from there.
Parry and Hughes and Thomas and Mary are fairly common names in Wales. Llangernyw is not a mining area. Also, you mention that you found a Mary Hughes in the 1871 census when previously you have her married to Thomas Parry in 1864. Brynpolyn is a township in St Asaph parish.
If you tell us from where to start (i.e. the ancestors you are sure about) we can help you go back on the correct lines.
Gadget
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David Rowland Evans married an Annie Parry, Q1, 1905 in Pontypridd. It might be worth checking for them on the 1911 census.
Gadget
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A David Rowland Evans was killed in action on 18 August 1917. I'm going through his army record to see if there's a mention of an Annie.
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I don't think the army records are the ones for the person Annie married. He is recorded as a widower and re-married in 1908. Annie is with him on the 1911.
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Grief- if the person who you are working with has a tree on Ancestry (which has all the info that you have given) and the first letter of his Ancestry name is g, then he is one of my shared matches at 8 cMs!!!
PS - on a quick look through his tree, I think I'm most likely to be connected via the Montgomeryshire lines.
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I am working with my and 2C Mary Ann AncestryDNA matches. Our great grandfather was Edward R. Hughes b. 7 Mar 1845 Tanywal, Abergele. Our great grandmother was Mary E. Evans b. 1850 Ohio and was illegitimate. Her mother, Ann Evans, was born 01 Nov 1830 Llanfair Caereinion, Montgomeryshire. The three matches I am trying to connect are Mary Ann's matches. In researching these matches I have found some trees that suggest a possible connection to some of my matches. The actual atDNA may come from Evans in Montgomeryshire but we may also share a Denbighshire Hughes ancestor. The 3 matches are gill8399 with the Parry ancestors, SARAHJONES1811 and Gail Jones (probably sisters) with Denbighshire Hughes ancestors .
Edward R. Hughes' father was Robert R. Hughes b. 9 Nov 1818 at Berth, Denbighshire to Hugh Hughes and Mary Hughes from his 1891 obits. I have this in my tree. (Username: Moutrey, Hays Moutrey Davies Hughes tree). But all my cousins have Sarah Williams as Robert's mother. This is because the Jones girls have this in their tree and several of us descendants of Robert R. Hughes have small atDNA matches to descendants of 2 children who have Hugh Hughes and Sarah Williams as their ancestors. Sarah Williams is a very common name in Wales so that the Hugh Hughes b. abt. 1796 Abergele may be the correct Hugh Hughes and my G+ grandfather. Sarah may not be my G+ grandmother.
This is a puzzle I have been working on for more than 10 years and one that I started in my tree years ago when I found an Abergele Methodist birth of a Robert Hughes (twin Elizabeth) born at Berth to Hugh Hughes and Sarah Williams 9 Dec 1821 and baptized 15 Dec. by Rev. Thos. Jones of Moelfre at the dwelling house of Hugh Hughes. My cousins copied this into their trees. I changed his mother to Mary Hughes a few years ago and it was supported by the Robert R. Hughes obits that I found a few months ago. Recently I found a tree with Robert 1821, parents Hugh Hughes and Sarah Williams, who was living in Liverpool by 1851. If that tree is correct Robert 1821 is not my ancestor. I have not found a birth record for Robert Hughes b. 1818 Berth or anywhere else.
Thanks for your interest.
Marian
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The first of your matches also matches with me.
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I've been looking at the Evans tree and I don't recognise any of those he's listed. It is a small tree and my link might well be in an unrecorded line, and 8cMs is likely to be a distant relative. Most of my Welsh lines are in the North Wales counties, with Montgomeryshire as the most southerly. My Parry line is mainly Ruabon and Chirk and my Hughes lines are mainly Merionethshire.
I don't link with either you or your Jones links so it must be on one of his other lines.
I'll investigate in more detail and get back if I find anything.
Gadget
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Your match to gill8399 is 8 cM. My 2C Mary Ann Smith match with him is 27 cM over 3 segments. Mary Ann I share great grandparents but my grandfather had all ancestors from Cardiganshire and her grandfather, Joseph Thomas Morgan was born in 1872 Montgomeryshire. His father was Edward Morgan 04 May 1836•Tregfeglwys, Montgomeryshire, Wales and mother Susan Rowland 12 Jul 1836•Llanbrynmair, Montgomeryshire, Wales. (Tree by Sldraper_94)
One reason that I am building out gill8399's tree is because he seems to be related to the Jones girls. The three of them show up in a small cluster of related people among Mary Ann's AncestryDNA matches. (Shared Clustering https://github.com/jonathanbrecher/sharedclustering )
gill8399 did answer my message to him about his match to Mary Ann. I had found a census record for a Thomas Parry the right age living with his grandmother in Ruabon, I think, and he directed me further north where I found another Thomas Parry living with a grandmother at LLANGERNIEW whose age was 2 years off 1842. He did not think that he had Parry ancestors from south Denbighshire. He also shared a photo of Thomas Parry with me.
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Yes, his Parrys were from Llangerniew, so I'm not related to him through that line. From memory, my Montgomery line were Tannat, Price/Pryce, Roberts, Jones, Owens and Ellis.
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gill8399 has no wives for Thomas Parry 1842 or for his father Thomas Parry 1816 Llangerniew, Conwy, Wales D:1856. The 1841 Upper and Lower Llangerniew census shows Thomas Parry 25 no, wife? Catherine 25 no, Jane 6 yes, Robert 2 yes. I did not find a marriage record for Thomas and Catherine. I have added a possible wife: Mary Roberts abt 1821 Llanstfraid Conway, Denbighshire, Wales D:January 1891 Carnarvon, Caernarvonshire. I forgot to add that record and don't see it in a quick search so it may have been to a different Thomas Parry. This Thomas Parry's father was Robert Parry 1766 Deheufryn DEATH 1843 from his tree.
It is possible that Mary Ann and I have a Roberts ancestor from Montgomeryshire. That is one possibility for our great grandmother, Mary E. Evans' unknown father.
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This baptism record is pretty clear that a Robert and Elizabeth Hughes, parents: Hugh Hughes and Sarah Williams of Berth, were born Dec 9 1821 and bpt Dec 15 1821 at the Dwelling House of Hugh Hughes.
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/2972/images/40612_B0151179-00169?pId=1676088
You need to click to next page to see the full entry. Entry 61.
Add - however I don't see them on the 1841 of 1851 in Liverpool.
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Re the Robert Hughes (20-24) on the 1841 with parents Hugh (50-54), Mary (45-49) and ?grandfather, Robert (75-79)) in Boderyn township, Abergele, and shown in your tree ~
Have you checked the probable brothers, Isaac, 10, and Joseph, 8?
Note that the rounding on this entry in the 1841 census implies that this Robert could have been born between late 1816 - before June 1821.
You also seen to have Robert, b. Berth but baptised in Chirk. That is really very unlikely!
Gadget
PS - is there any chance of seeing the obit that you refer to? There do seem to be two distinct Robert Hughes families showing in your tree.
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Check out 1871 England census
Durham. Crook with Billy Row.
Thomas Parry 31 b Flint Mountain Flint.
Mary 25 b Derbyshire Adwy. This is almost certainly Adwy, Bersham, Denbighshire
Sarah 6 b Lodge
Thomas 6 b Lodge Denbighshire
Rebecca E 5 b Brymbo
Peter 4 months b Durham.
Plus a lodger .
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1881 England. Durham.
Still there with 4 more children.
Robert 8
David 5
George 3
Mary 6 months
Thomas and Mary s birth places have been swapped Mary now born Flint. Thomas b Wrexham.
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I think the OP has discounted this family, Wilcoxinv - see first page.
Add - OP was looking for an Annie Parry b. Llangernyw
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I think the OP has discounted this family, Wilcoxinv - see first page.
Is that reply 5.
It's all a little confusing.
I think the Durham family could have gone to America.
Never mind. 🙂
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Ever so confusing - Annie was b. Llangernyw in 1877.
I've been trying to work out info from the OPs tree but there are two families which are alternatives.
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David Rowland Evans 29 b Llanfyllie Montgomeryshire
Annie Evans 34 b Llangeview Denbighshire
Stanley 5 b Pentre Glamorgan
Edgard 3 b 1908 "
Bruce 10 months "
Married 6 years and in Rhonda Glamorgan. All place names as transcribed
I'm working on a tablet in a static caravan, just passing the time😉
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All 3 sons births registered Pontypridd .mmn Parry.
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;D
Yes. I think OP has those.
It's ever so hot uo here - too hot for outside as I'm not good at heat.
Marian - do you have any matches that are linked to any of the three that you've listed but have a greater amount of shared DNA?
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Wilcoxin
If you're still looking.
According to the match's tree Annie Parry's father was a Thomas Parry, b. 1842 Terfyn
Gadget
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The nearest that I can find is on 1881
RG11/5530/31/4
Tyn Terfyn, Bettws yn Rhos
There is a Thomas Parry who fits and a daughter called Anne, aged 9, b. Llangernyw
Mother is a Sarah.
Gadget
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This is the longer obit. I could not get the link in my Word Doc. to work.
ROBERT R. HUGHES. Wedi hir gystudd, ar y dydd cyntaf o'r flwyddyn Uon (1892), hanodd ein hanwyl frawd Robert R. Hughes, wedi cyrhaedd yr oedran tego 72 mlwydd, 1 mis a 22 o ddydd- iau. Achos ei farwolaeth oedd tumor yn yr ystumog. Ganwyd Mr. Hughes yn y Berth, plwyf Abergele, Sir Ddinbych, Tachwedd 9, 1818, Enwau ei rieni oedd Hugh a Mary Hughes. Ymbriododd Gorphenaf 8, 1841, ag Elinor, merch David a Mabella Lloyd. Syinudas- ant i'r wlad hon yn y flwyddyn 1869, a sef- ydlasant yn Radnor, Ohio. Oddeutu wyth mlynedd yn ol, symudasant i'r ardal hon, sef Horeb, Swydd Van Wert, Ohio. Gan- wyd iddynt ddeuddeg o blant, ûeg o ba rai, yn nghyd a'u mam, sydd yn fyw, ac yn galaruy golled o briod tyner a thad anwyl. Yr oedd iddo bedwar o frodyr, un o ba rai yw y Parch. Hugh Hughes, Liverpool, sydd yn fyw. Yr oedd wedi ei fendichìo a chorph cad- arn. Nid yn aml y ceid ty o glai wedi ei adeiladu mor gadarn; eto, er mor gadarn, dadfeiliodd a chwympodd. Tua dwy flyn- edd yn ol, yn ddystaw, yn lleohwraidd, yn ddiarwybod, dirfu i angeu ddechreu ar y gwaith o dynu yr adeilad eadiru i lawr. Gwaith araf a wnaeth, ond sicr. Cafodd gystudd poenus iawn yn y misoedd olaf, yn enwedig yr wythnosau olaf. Gwywodd yn raddol dan ddwylaw oerion angea, ac ar y dydd cyntaf o'r flwyddyn hon, ehedodd yr ysbryd at Dduw, yr hwn a'i rhoes. Daearwyd yr hyn oedd farwol o hono yn yn mynwent Horeb, Swydd Van Wert, U.,. Sadwrn, Ionawr 3ydd. Daeth tyrfa fawr yn nghyd ar yr achlysur. Gweinyddwyd yn. 18921 MARWOLAETHAU SWYDDOGION EGLWYSIG. 71 y ty gan D. Jewett Davies, ao ar lan y bedd gan y Parchn. Isaac Edwards, Jackson, a Thomas Eoberts, Venedocia. Y Sabboth canlynol, pregethwyd pregethau angladdol gan D. Jewett Davies ac Isaac Edwards. Sfr oedd yn meddu ar alluoedd meddyliol cryf; nid meddwl bach, eiddil, mewn corph cryf, ond meddwl cadarn mewn corph cadarn. Er na chafodd ond ychydig o fan- tais addysg, eto llafuriodd lawer am wybod- aeth, yn enwedig am wybodaeth ysgrythyrol —y wybodaeth ragoraf o bob gwybodaeth. Yr oedd yn gadarn ac yn iach yn yr Ysgryth- yran. Ffermwr
oedd wrth ei alwedigaeth— gelwedigaeth naturiol mwyaf urddasol a mwyaf manteisiol i fywyd crefyddol. Yr oedd yn ffermwr o radd dda. Yr oedd ei fferm, a phob peth yn perthyn iddi yn dwyn tystiolaeth i hyn. Yr oedd yn gymydog da, caredig, ffyddlon a chymwynasgar. Yr oedd yn grefyddol o'i febyd. Parha- haodd yn grefyddol trwy ei oes, a bu farw yn grefyddol. Nid peth bach yw cadw o fewn eglwyg Dduw am oddeutu 7i)mlynedd, yn ngwyneb tetuta6iynau y byd, cnawd a'r diafol; er bywiogrwydd ieuenctyd a'i hudol- ìaethau; er gofal a llafur canol oed, a chodi teulu mawr. Cadwyd a chadwodd ei droed rhag llitbro. Ymdrechodd ymdrech deg (hardd), gorphenodd ei yrfa, cadwodd y ffydd, a hyderwn yn sicr fod coron cyfiawn- der wedi ei rhoddi i'w chadw iddo ef, yr hon a rydd yr Arglwydd, y Barnwr cyfiawn, iddo yn y dydd hwnw. Yr oedd ei dad yn Annibynwr, a'i fam yn Fethodist. Dim yn rhyfedd fod Eobert Hughes yn Fethodist i'r carn, gan fod ei fam felíy. Yr oedd yn athraw rhagorol yn yr ysgol Sabbothol. Yr oedd wedi cymwyso ei hua i hyn trw.y lafurio pan yn ieuanc am wybod- aeth ysgrythyrol. Pan yn 18 oed, dewiswyd ef yn athraw ar ddosbarth yr athrawon, heb- law cael ei ddewis i fod yn athraw ar gyfar- fod darlleD. Diamheu mai fel athraw yr oedd yn rhagori. Yr oedd yn gadarn yn yr athrawiaeth. Yr oedd yn hoff iawn o Cate- cism Brown, gwaith Calhoun, ac yn hoff iawn o ddarlíen ac astudio yr Epistol at y Bhufeiniaid. Yr oedd yn wrandawr ardderchog. Yr oedd yn medru gwerthfawrogi pregeth a a sylwedd à swmp ynddi. Yr oedd yn medru gwahaniaethu rhwng sum a sylweäd mewn pregeth; ymborth oedd am dano, ac nid blodau; gwirionedd yr efengyl, ac nid wit a stories. Teímla ysgrifenydd hyn o gof- iant golled fawr ar ei ol fel gwrandawr, Mae colli un gwrandawr o fath ag oedd Mr. Hughes yn fwy colled na cholli haner Uon'd capel o ryw fath o wrandawyr. Yr oedd yn meddu digon o wybodaeth ysgrythyrol i werthfawrogi " pregethu y gair.'' Yr oedd Mr. Hughes yn weddiwr gafaelgar, call, trefnus, a'i ysbryd yn cynesu pan yn diolch am "Iawn Calfaria," ac am drefn i achub pechadur colledig. Medrai hefyd weddio yn bwrpasol i'r amgylchiadau.
ei fod yn hynod am wneyd pob peth yn iawn. Ei reol bob amser gyda ei alwedig neth fel amaethwr, yn gystal a chylchoedd eraili, ydoedd gwneyd pob peth yn iawn, goreu byth ag y medrai, fel yr oedd hyny wedi dyfod mor naturiol iddo nes ei wneyd yn hynod ddeheuig gyda phob peth yr ymaflai'ei law ynddo i'w wneuthur. Byddai mor ofalus wrth ysgrif- enu Uythyr at gyfaill, fod pob brawddeg mor ddarllenadwy a phe byddai i'w argraffu yn llyfr i'r byd dros byth. Ni wyddai Mr. Hughes am y brofedigaeth o fod yn esgeu- lus gyda yr un gorchwyl a gymerai i'w wneuthur. Fel cyfaiJl, yr oedd yn Uawn cydymdeim- lad—yn barod i lawenhau gyda rhai fyddai yn Uawen, a wylo gyda y rhai oedd yn wylo. Yr oedd yn un hynod am fwynhau cymdeithas ei ffryndiau. Byddai ei siriol- deb wrth ei gyfarfod yn gwisgo gwedd mor
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Thanks -
Note that I've just found Thomas Parry and Annie.
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Well, it certainly has his mother as Mary and his baptism in 1818, as you say. I'm wondering if the writer got the dates mixed up or the entry was incorrect.
Was this 'Hugh and Mary' the ones who married circa 1814?
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https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3540315/3540321/94/
Obituary original.
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The nearest that I can find is on 1881
RG11/5530/31/4
Tyn Terfyn, Bettws yn Rhos
There is a Thomas Parry who fits and a daughter called Anne, aged 9, b. Llangernyw
Mother is a Sarah.
Gadget
I think Sarah was Sarah Williams. They married St Asaph, Q2. 1866.
Sarah was of Langernyw according to the censuses and one of the censuses has Tyn Terfyn as Llangeryw.
I must get on with my own tree now - they got everywhere ;D
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Gadget - I think this is the right marriage record for Hugh and Mary. 5 Dec 1817 at Henllan
https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/62103/images/004393952_00390?pId=98011
They had a son, Edward born Penpalment, Henllan Parish 5 Dec 1820.
https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/2972/images/40612_B0151179-00030?pId=1675752
Hugh of St. George Parish and Mary of Abergele Parish. I went back past 1818 in those records but did not find a Robert b. 1818 to the same parents.
At Ancestry Thrulines both Mary Ann and I match 11 other descendants of Robert Hughes' son Edward (with trees). I match a descendant of David?? Hughes 1829, brother? of Robert (mother Sarah Williams 14 cM) and Mary Ann matches 2 descendants of Mary Hughes 1826 sister? of Robert (mother Sarah Williams, Jones girls 31 and 25 cM )
AW is the descendant of David Hughes and we have compared information.
You are familiar with the Jones girls matches.
This is the tree of a descendant of Robert Hughes the son of Hugh Hughes and Sarah Williams who was born at Berth 9 DEC 1821 • Abergele, Denbighshire, Wales
DEATH OCTOBER 1874 • Chorlton, Lancashire and has the record attached.
https://www.ancestry.com/family-tree/person/tree/109808787/person/170079303304/facts
One possibility is that Hugh and Mary Hughes had children but when Mary died he married Sarah Williams. The birth dates of the children does not support this scenario. My cousins think that Robert R. Hughes lied about his birth because he was illegitimate. I hope that was not true as he seemed to be so well respected.
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Gadget - I think this is the right marriage record for Hugh and Mary. 5 Dec 1817 at Henllan
https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/62103/images/004393952_00390?pId=98011
Yes, that is the one I saw - my memory subtracted a few years!
From the shared DNA, you seem to link to Hugh and Sarah, which could mean, of course, just Hugh. What you really need is a link to just Mary Hughes.
Gadget
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Thank you Gadget for the help.
Years ago when I found the birth record for Robert Hughes (twin) b. 1821 Berth, father Hugh Hughes, mother Sarah Williams. I also found another record. This record was sort of a daily affairs record of the Parish and may have been Anglican or Non Conformist. Some of the records were of Parish visits. One of the church officials visited a Sarah Williams shortly after she had given birth to the twins and then she died a few days later in 1821. Since I cannot find that record again maybe I can find a death/burial for that Sarah Williams in 1821. For me to accept that record it must have been from Abergele and it may have mentioned that the visit was to Hugh Hughes' home. I may have lost that record in a computer crash.
There are two trees that show Mary Hughes abt. 1801 and husband Hugh Hughes (Thomas) abt 1801. It lists children Edward 1823 Abergele and Elizabeth 1830. Edward is a blacksmith at Bettws yn Rhos 1871. The tree gives him living with Hugh and Mary Hughes at Bodoryn. I cannot write the owner to ask him why he put in Hughes (Thomas). Should I be looking for a Robert 1818 with a Thomas father. Patronymics?
Thanks again for your help. I need to think over some of the ideas I have now from our discussion.