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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Argyllshire => Topic started by: jenn270 on Monday 14 June 21 21:22 BST (UK)

Title: Duncan Black & Flora McPhail
Post by: jenn270 on Monday 14 June 21 21:22 BST (UK)
Any help with their dates and who their parents were would be greatly appreciated. I believe Duncan was born abt. 1781 and Flora died in 1837. They lived on Iona but I don't think were born there.
Title: Re: Duncan Black & Flora McPhail
Post by: Neale1961 on Monday 14 June 21 23:19 BST (UK)
Marriage
MCPHAIL   FLORA   DUNCAN BLACK/   26/12/1811   
542/    10 45   Kilfinichen and Kilvickeon
The marriage record may tell you what parish they were both from.

Children baptised:
BLACK   ALEXANDER   DUNCAN BLACK/FLORA MCPHAIL   M   13/12/1812   542/
   10 51   Kilfinichen and Kilvickeon
BLACK   DONALD   DUNCAN BLACK/FLORA MCPHAIL   M   27/10/1815   542/
   10 75   Kilfinichen and Kilvickeon
BLACK   NIEL   DUNCAN BLACK/FLORA MCPHAIL   M   15/03/1819   542/
   10 112   Kilfinichen and Kilvickeon
BLACK   DUGALD   DUNCAN BLACK/FLORA MCPHAIL   M   17/08/1824   542/
   20 32   Kilfinichen and Kilvickeon
BLACK   ANN   DUNCAN BLACK/FLORA MCPHAIL   F   07/04/1830   542/
   20 92   Kilfinichen and Kilvickeon
BLACK   ANN   DUNCAN BLACK/FLORA MCPHAIL FR10 (FR10)   F   07/04/1830   
538/    10 6   Iona
BLACK   ISABELLA   DUNCAN BLACK/FLORY MCPHAIL   F   18/10/1833   
542/    20 122   Kilfinichen and Kilvickeon

Family in 1841 were living in Iona
https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/5a141322f4040b9d6ef9b77e/isabella-black-1841-argyllshire-iona-1834-?locale=en
Title: Re: Duncan Black & Flora McPhail
Post by: jenn270 on Tuesday 15 June 21 02:17 BST (UK)
Thank you for this. I had opened the marriage record but can't make out the place names, probably due in part to the fact that I am in Canada and not familiar with many of these places. For Duncan it says something like Frden or Fr den and for Flora it says Do in Wene (?) Ma---? Any ideas?
Title: Re: Duncan Black & Flora McPhail
Post by: Neale1961 on Tuesday 15 June 21 03:41 BST (UK)
If you post the record that you cannot read, someone might be able to help.
Title: Re: Duncan Black & Flora McPhail
Post by: jenn270 on Tuesday 15 June 21 13:00 BST (UK)
I didn't know that posting records was permissible but if so, I have attached it in the hope someone can decipher it for me.
Title: Re: Duncan Black & Flora McPhail
Post by: jenn270 on Tuesday 15 June 21 19:06 BST (UK)
I see there is a place called Fidden in the same parish so I wonder if that's what's mentioned for Duncan?
Title: Re: Duncan Black & Flora McPhail
Post by: raonull4 on Tuesday 15 June 21 20:07 BST (UK)
for Flora it looks like its saying in do (same) were married
Title: Re: Duncan Black & Flora McPhail
Post by: Neale1961 on Tuesday 15 June 21 22:01 BST (UK)
Yes, I agree with Fidden and ditto (ďdoĒ) for Flora.
Fidden is the name of a farm on the Isle of Mull, and in the parish that they were married in.
See very left side of map here (towards top) https://maps.nls.uk/view/74427403

Description here https://scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/digital-volumes/ordnance-survey-name-books/argyll-os-name-books-1868-1878/argyll-volume-77/175

Added: They could have both been employed to work at Fidden.
Title: Re: Duncan Black & Flora McPhail
Post by: Neale1961 on Tuesday 15 June 21 23:22 BST (UK)
Looking for parents for these two is difficult, because even though they were married on Mull, we donít know that they were born there.
It is also quite possible that their baptism records donít exist.

You say that Flora died in 1837. Where does that information come from? How old was she when she died?
This is a possible birth for her on Mull (because of parents names, which appear in her own children) Only speculation. :)

MCPHAIL   FLORA   ALEXANDER MCPHAIL/ANN MACLEOD   F   25/01/1778   
544/    10 47   Kilninian and Kilmore

Duncan is recorded as 60 years old in 1841 census. Due to the rounding down of ages to nearest 5 in this census, he could have been between aged from 60 to 64, so possibly born between 1776 and 1781. I canít see any baptisms for that name on Mull in that time frame.
Title: Re: Duncan Black & Flora McPhail
Post by: jenn270 on Wednesday 16 June 21 01:40 BST (UK)
Thanks to all who are helping with this; very much appreciated. The death entry for Flora in 1837 doesn't give her age but it seems she's the right person. I have attached it. Duncan doesn't seem to have a wife in the 1841 census.
Title: Re: Duncan Black & Flora McPhail
Post by: jenn270 on Wednesday 16 June 21 01:45 BST (UK)
I am not familiar with the name of the place where she died except that it's listed as Iona.
Title: Re: Duncan Black & Flora McPhail
Post by: Neale1961 on Wednesday 16 June 21 01:48 BST (UK)
Yes, I found her burial. Recorded as McPheat on SP. No doubt it is the correct Flora. Shame that no age is given.
Title: Re: Duncan Black & Flora McPhail
Post by: jenn270 on Wednesday 16 June 21 01:53 BST (UK)
Are you able to send me a link to the burial record?
Title: Re: Duncan Black & Flora McPhail
Post by: jenn270 on Wednesday 16 June 21 01:54 BST (UK)
Or maybe what I saw *was* the burial record rather than the death record?
Title: Re: Duncan Black & Flora McPhail
Post by: Neale1961 on Wednesday 16 June 21 02:22 BST (UK)
27 March 1837 Flora McPheat. It is the church record, so I think of it as the burial.

I also see that their son Neil Black born 1819, was buried on Iona 25/04/1839.
Title: Re: Duncan Black & Flora McPhail
Post by: jenn270 on Wednesday 16 June 21 02:33 BST (UK)
Thank you for the info on Neil.
I don't see Duncan in the 1851 census unless it's the one aged 72 in Lismore Appin and Duror
Title: Re: Duncan Black & Flora McPhail
Post by: Neale1961 on Wednesday 16 June 21 02:53 BST (UK)
I suspect that Duncan has died between 1841 and 1851.
In the 1851 census the son Dugald Black (and wife Mary MacInnes) is living on Iona, working a croft at Clachancorrach. He may have taken it over from his father.

Clachancorrach a small farmstead ...
https://scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/digital-volumes/ordnance-survey-name-books/argyll-os-name-books-1868-1878/argyll-volume-37/25
Map here (a little south from Baile Mor village):  https://maps.nls.uk/view/74427389
Title: Re: Duncan Black & Flora McPhail
Post by: jenn270 on Wednesday 16 June 21 03:09 BST (UK)
At first I had wondered if Duncan ever lived on Iona but since Dugald was born there and Flora died there he must have. It would be so nice to learn where Duncan was born but it's not looking too hopeful.
Title: Re: Duncan Black & Flora McPhail
Post by: Neale1961 on Wednesday 16 June 21 03:20 BST (UK)
.. but it's not looking too hopeful.
No unfortunately, I think you are out of luck.
The family were on Iona for sure before and after the 1841 census. Was Duncan born there? Either there or on Mull, maybe.
Title: Re: Duncan Black & Flora McPhail
Post by: Neale1961 on Wednesday 16 June 21 04:32 BST (UK)
I forgot to mention that in the 1841 census, just 2 dwellings away from Duncan Black and family is a McPhail family
https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/5a141321f4040b9d6ef9b597?dwel=5a14131bf4040b9d6ef9abeb&locale=en&page_number=0
It might be worth looking at this family in a bit more detail, in case they are related to Flora.

Added: very interesting - John McPhail married Christy / Cirsty Black in 1817.