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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Wexford => Topic started by: HinderRo6 on Saturday 19 June 21 17:02 BST (UK)
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Hi there, looking for information on Catherine Kiely and Michael Hughes. They married in New Ross in 1878, ie were there any children, names etc. Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, hinderR06.
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Welcome to RootsChat :)
Daughter Maryann born 1879. MMN Kielly
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1879/02904/2064199.pdf
KG
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This is a useful site https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/civil-search.jsp
Here is the marriage which you may have already
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1878/11104/8064452.pdf
You can search for any children on the site. Did they stay in Wexford?
Here is Maryann b 1879
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1879/02904/2064199.pdf
I see KG has Maryann :)
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Hi there, Thanks you so much for that, I really appreciate what you have done for me. No they did not stay in wexford, they moved to Dowlais in south Wales, for work, as a lot of Irish did in the 1800s. Thank you so much once again. Regards Jean.
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Do you have them in Dowlais?
You can access censuses for free on https://www.familysearch.org/en/.
Here is the 1891 census with the family and more children born Ireland.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:HMCG-66Z
Catherine b 1886
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1886/02600/1960432.pdf
I can’t see a birth for John.
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Hi there, thats wonderful, I can thank you enough. You have saved me a lot of time, having to research all of this myself . Once again, I can't thank you enough. Jean
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Hi there, I was just wondering if you can connect a Thomas Frances kiely to Catherine Kiely. Catherines daughter, Maryann married a Thomas Frances Kiely in ab. 1900, they ran away to Tredegar registry office, changed their ages, pulled to people off the street as witnesses and got married. I have tried looking myself, but can only find information on information Thomas Frances here in Dowlais. I think there was a link between Catherine Kiely and Thomas Frances Kiely, thats why they eloped. Maryann's parents wouldnt have approved. Regard Jean
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Did he give a father’s name on his marriage?
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Hi there, Sorry but, no he didn't, it was just his and Maryann's and 2 witnesses on there.
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Did they have children?
I can see them in 1901 and a possible for Thomas but no Maryanne. That Thomas is b Waterford.
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Hi, Yes they had two children together, John kiely born 1904 and Michael kiely 1905. Both born in Dowlais. Jean
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I found these children earlier.
Merthyr Tydfil reg. District
1901 Maggie Kiely mmn Hughes death 1902
1903 Catherine Kiely mmn Hughes death 1907
John 1904
Michael 1906
It looks as though the boys are with their grandparents in 1911 - no Maryanne.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWXW-N2Z
I was wondering if this is Thomas in 1911
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWXP-CJ9
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Maggie kiely I know about, she is buried in pant cemetery, in Merthyr tydil. MaryAnn and Thomas Frances slit up in 1906, she was with another man by the name Thomas John Price, who was the father of my grandmother, who's name was Maryann Price. My grandmother was born in Porth in the Rhondda. Jean.
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That Thomas Frances does look a big possibly. It does say on some of the birth certificates, that Thomas Frances kiely was a wagon builder. It's a very likely it could be him. Thank you very much for all the look up your have done for me. Your very kind. Jean
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That fits with 1901 - he is a Wagon Repairer
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSM2-R4B
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You say the marriage witnesses were ‘pulled off the street’.
What were the names?
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I'm sorry but I started doing the research in 2006, all my paperwork is in the attic and I can't remember off hand. I had the information off rootschat at the time, on the tredegar board. I stopped doing it because of work commitments, but I have now retired and decided to restart where I left off. All the information I have at the moment is in my head, until I can get someone to go up the attic for me and find all the paperwork. Jean
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Here is one old post - you have Thomas born Cork
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=174578.
Here is a longer one - with the witnesses names :)
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=167187.0
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Yes I thought he was from Cork at the time. Michael Kiely(the son) went to London for work, married and had a family there. They would come down to Wales every couple of years for a visit. When asking them they said they thought that Catherine and Michael Hughes where from the wexford area and that Thomas Frances could also have been from there or County Waterford. Jean
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I also asked them about these people in Tredegar, they new nothing about them. They said the Michael and Catherine Hughes came here on there own, with the 3 children. No other family from Ireland came with them. There fore to me, it looks as though it was someone either Thomas Frances knew, or maybe Maryann. They then used them as witnesses and and and address. Jean
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Thomas gives Waterford as his place of birth in 1911 - link posted earlier.
Unfortunately Kiely is a very common name in those counties, Waterford, Wexford, Kilkenny.
Catherine gives Kilkenny as her birthplace.
You have Maryanne’s life after 1901. Do you have Thomas’ later life?
1911 - Swansea
Then there is:
Marriage - 1914 - Swansea
Thomas F Kiely and Sarah Davies (I don’t think she is related to the Davies family from 1911)
Death - 1936
Sarah Kiely 59 yrs Swansea
Marriage - 1937 Swansea
Thomas F Kiely and Eliza A Moule
I can’t see Thomas in 1939 register, Eliza is there, but there are electoral registers with the couple in later years.
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Unfortunately they hide a lot of things years ago. As the story goes, Maryann Kiely moved to Cardiff from the Rhondda, with Thomas John Price. Which she did because I sent for a certicate of one of the children, my grandmothers sister Bessie Price, who was born in Russell Street in Cardiff. They were in Cardiff living for a good number of years, where she had other children. Then Thomas John Price was suppose to have been killed in the 1st world war. His brother whos name was Richard H Price, was in the merchant navy, jumped ship and brought them up to a place called Troedrhiwfuwch, to stop them from going in the workhouse. I did find a marrage for Maryann and Richard Price in 1919. Can't find one for her and Thomas John Price though. I don't think she married Thomas John Price, as it was to expensive to divorce.
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I wondered if that was Thomas Francis in those marriages, whether there might be a father declared on the certificates. :-\
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Well he was the father of John and Michael kiely that I do know, he may also have been the father of my grandmother, even though Thomas John Price is named on her birth certicate. There was a year between Michael Kiely and my grandmother. Michael Kiely was born in the november of 1905 and my grandmother was born in the November of 1906.
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I did get a copy of Bessie Prices birth certificate and it listed Thomas John Price as her father as well and she was born in 1911.
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She did have other children, a lot of them went as Price as well. She had 13 children altogether, but a lot of them didnt survive. One of them was buried in the cemetery in Roath, in Cardiff.
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I think we might be at cross purposes.
I thought you were trying to find out about Thomas Francis who married Maryanne.
On the first marriage, there is no father named, you say. I wonder if he is consistent with that, if of course, that is the same Thomas Kiely.
There are children from the first marriage at least.
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I'm looking for information on both, Thomas Frances kiely and the Prices. We were told that Thomas Frances kiely was killed in the 1st world war as well. I think that's a little strange that they both got killed in the war. Also she named one of the children Richard, but didn't name one of them Thomas after Thomas John Price. Yes as you said if Thomas Frances had children in Swansea, then that would prove it was him. Is fathers name was John Kiely.
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Those references to Thomas Kiely that I posted, extending to 1950/60s are at 22 Madoc Street, Swansea.
This article is therefore of interest.
https://newspapers.library.wales/view/4096319/4096320/23/kiely
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Very interesting article, I think there is a good chance that,it is the Thomas Frances Kiely I'm looking for. We just need one thing to connect it.
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Is fathers name was John Kiely.
Hi there, Sorry but, no he didn't, it was just his and Maryann's and 2 witnesses on there.
You replied earlier that you didn’t have a father for him but then say his name is John. ???
If John is shown on the marriage certificate, what is his occupation?
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I remember form the post in tredgar because I put it on there, but I can remember if it said occupation, but I can remember it said his father was deceased.
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This is from your post in 2006 - so is this definitely from the marriage certificate mind you he could have made it up I suppose :)
“Hi, his father is listed as being John Kiely(deceased). Her is Michael Hughes. Jean”
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Yes thats the information that's on the marriage certificate.
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Newspaper snippet
Gravenhurst marriage
…elder daughter of Mrs W Redman, Gravenhurst and Mr Thomas Frederick Kiely, elder son of Mr and Mrs T F Kiely, 22, Madoc Street, Swansea
14th September 1945 Biggleswade Chronicle.
A similar announcement in another paper describes him as Cpl Thomas Frederick Kiely RAF.
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Hi there, well it's not him then, his name was Thomas Frances. Well thank you once again for all you have done for me. He must have died in the war. Jean
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Why do you think that?
It is the son who is Thomas Frederick - born December 1914 - the son of Thomas F and Sarah (Davies).
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Sorry I had only just got up and read that wrong, I thought you were you meant Thomas Frances, middle name was Frederick. Sorry about that. Jean
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I have noticed that Maryann and Thomas kept to the Irish naming system with the children they had. Maggie would have been his mother's name, Catherine was her mother's name, John was his father's name, Michael was her fathers name and the she named my grandmother after her. After that she didn't keep to it. So Thomas Frances parents were Maggie and John Kiely. I don't know if that's any help. Jean
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A similar announcement in another paper describes him as Cpl Thomas Frederick Kiely RAF.
ON the TNA website under Catalogue reference: AIR 78/91/10 (Index to Airmen and Airwomen), Thomas Frederick Kiely has an RAF number 610533
https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/
KG
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I have just read that on Thomas Frederick, they slit up in 1906, therefore Thomas Frances did more that probably move from Dowlais, remarry and had children.
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I have just read that on Thomas Frederick, they slit up in 1906, therefore Thomas Frances did more that probably move from Dowlais, remarry and had children.
Thomas is likely the one in 1911 already posted.
I gave you the marriages earlier.
You can search on Free BMD https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl for these in the indexes to confirm.
You can also search for any children using the mother’s surname and then their marriages. These are just names, no other details.
The deaths of the subsequent wives are also in those indexes but unfortunately I can’t see a relevant death for Thomas Francis.
I have also posted information re the address in Swansea from electoral registers and that newspaper article.
I am hoping that this is the right person of course.
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Well I have looked under both marriages, but can only find the one birth. So if the child was named after the father, either Thomas frances changed his middle name or its not him. Thank for all the help you have given me. Jean
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I am sorry but I don’t understand what you mean when you keep saying ‘it’s not him’. A child is not always named after his father despite seeming to follow naming patterns
You may be right of course but the age, name and occupation fit.
A certificate would perhaps help.
1914
Thomas F Kiely and Sarah Davies
1915 birth Thomas F Kiely
1927 birth - a female
These are both in Swansea.
There is also a birth in 1919 registered in Tregaron so not sure if that is the same family.
These people are in the electoral registers in Swansea.
The births from 1915 and 1927 can be seen at the Madoc Street address.
I haven’t named the female. I can’t be sure of a death.
However, you can find a marriage for her and children from that marriage on Free BMD.
We cannot name living persons on here.
I don’t think there are any children from the 1937 marriage of Thomas Kiely and Eliza Moule.
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Yes, the age, name and occupation do fit. I only went up to 1925 on the Sarah Davies, that's how I missed the female child. I went up to 1942 on Eliza Moyle and no children. Yes your right, I will send for a certicate. Thanks for all your help. Jean
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It would be good to check - maybe the marriage with Sarah Davies as the occupation would hopefully be the same.
Then it is either confirmed or discounted.
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Will do, thanks once again Jean.