RootsChat.Com
Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: EllyMayReid on Saturday 03 July 21 01:27 BST (UK)
-
I have a few latin documents and am looking for someone to translate these please.
Of course I realise this will be an amount of work and am happy to pay a reasonable fee.
I say reasonable as I have just had a quote from a professional translation service of £153.00 for one of them which is 6 lines - approx 70 words!
Good job I was sat down when I read the quote.
Being a pensioner this for me is nowhere near reasonable.
thank you
Elly
-
Google translate can translate from Latin to English for free.
It's not perfect and I can't promise it will work. However as what you have is probably common legal or religious phrases, assuming its a will or something, then it might work well enough to give you an idea of what is being said.
https://translate.google.co.uk/?sl=la&tl=en&op=translate
-
You could try posting the six lines here. There may be someone who can translate it for you.
-
There is a specific board here on Rootschat for translating and deciphering documents if you've not come across it
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/handwriting-deciphering-recognition/
You could attach your query to this post, and hopefully someone will see it, or you could start a new post with it on the board in the link.
You need to make sure the attachment is 500kbs or less.
I'm going to be a bit more positive than Ruskie and say there will almost certainly be someone on here who would be able to translate Latin! ;) (If you look on the handwriting board you will see many such requests for translations).
-
Goldie, I didn’t want to get Elly’s hopes up or put pressure on any potential volunteers, but yes I’m fairly sure there will be some help forthcoming. ;D
-
Thank you all for your replies.
Will try google translate
thank you
Elly
-
What kind of documents and what era? What style of handwriting?
As Stanwix said, there are common stock phrases in many documents.
Some contributors to RootsChat deciphering board can also explain meanings of unfamiliar words or phrases in the context of a particular document.
-
google translate is doing enough for what i need thank you all for your hrlp
-
It would be interesting to attach the shortest of your documents here as a test to see whether Google translate's version is accurate.
It doesn't really cover all eventualities and is not sensitive to context. For example, "equus in stabulo non est" will probably come up with "The horse is not in the stable", although it can also mean "The horse is not eating in the stable". A human could spot that.
-
Hello I have attached the file for which I wanted only the first few lines translated.
I typed into google translate from "DECLARACO... to Prioris" this is what the ggogle translate result produced.
"Declararco the value of all the dnioz mansioz of the land, whether 'a possession of the monastery in the time of dompni Robti duggilby adtuc tempaliu quarucuq the former, and the eccliaz."
I was able to establish it was a return made by the former prior Robert Duggleby of all the lands and property in the possesion of the monastry of Alvingham.
HOWEVER this is dated 1536 and Robert Duggleby did not die until 1540 so I am assuming he was old and retired?
Not a great result but enough for me to get on with.
I would still need help from someone to translate others probably so if anyone wants the work please let me know
kind regards
Ell
-
‘Valor Ecclesiasticus’ of Henry VIII
The priory or monastery of Alvingham in the aforesaid deanery.
Declaration or value of all the domains, manors, lands, tenements and other temporal and spiritual holdings whatsoever belonging to the monastery there in the twenty-sixth year [1534/35] of the reign of our lord Henry VIII, King and Supreme Head of the Church in England, in the time of Master Robert Duggilby, prior up to that time.
Note: the Valor Ecclesiasticus is a survey ordered by Henry VIII of all church and monastic lands, to establish their value, essentially so that he could appropriate the taxes on them that had previously been paid to the Pope. Later, of course, he dissolved many monasteries and took the holdings as Crown lands.
-
Thank you so much for this translation.
I can see now the poor result from Google translate had me making incorrect assumptions.
Please PM me if you would be willing to do any more translations for a fee of course as these are longer documents.
We have not come so far from Henry VII appropriating taxes for personal gain!
kind regards
Ellen
-
I'm glad it was helpful.
Sorry, but I can’t accept paid work through RootsChat. You are welcome to post any other sections that you need on this thread. There are quite a few people here besides myself who could help on a voluntary basis.
If you would prefer to employ a paid transcriber, you may want to search the directory of the Association of Genealogists and Researchers in Archives (AGRA) for a member who offers Latin. You may find the rates more favourable than from a commercial translation service.
https://www.agra.org.uk/memberbrowse
-
Sorry I did not realise that offering or accepting paid work is not allowed on this site!
Thank you for the AGRA link which I checked out and cannot seem to find a translator.
SO:
I have attached a copy of a folio from Dodsworth manuscripts. In the index to these Manuscripts it says
Robert de Dulaghby of Kingeston-on-Hull is mentioned on this folio.
I DO NOT need a full translation all I need is to understand what the document is, what the date of the document is and why Robert is mentioned.
Thank you
Ell
-
It looks like a record of cases heard in a church court, perhaps in York. Robert de Dulaghby appears only in the last paragraph. He is the plaintiff in a plea against Thomas (son of Peter [?]uttel, knight) and his wife A[...]ina, the defendants, relating to a messuage with appurtenances in Kingston-upon-Hull. Thomas and his wife may be acknowledging Robert’s right to the property, but the entry is incomplete and runs over to the next page, so that’s only a guess.
ADDED
Robert's occupation appears to be Litster, which I think is another term for 'Dyer'.
There is no date anywhere on the page – you may need to track back through the manuscript to find it. The hand suggests first half of the 1600s, but it may be a copy of an earlier document.
-
Thank you for the AGRA link which I checked out and cannot seem to find a translator.
There are four listed.
https://www.agra.org.uk/memberbrowse
On the right there is a panel headed Find a Researcher. In the drop-down menu Choose a Research Speciality (2nd box), select Latin. Then click Find Researcher (at the foot of the page).
-
...plea against Thomas (son of Peter [?]uttel, knight) and his wife A[...]ina, the defendants...
Judging mostly by the second instance, I think the wife might be: Avicia
-
thank you both for the translation and the help with AGRA i have found the 4 researcher you mentioned.
-
Having had the translation I checked the feet of fines Yorks. Arch. Society volume 52 and found this!!
25. Westminster. Quindene of Hilary, 50 Edw. Ill, 1376.
Quindene of Easter, 50 Edw. Ill, 1376. Robert de Anlaghby of Kyngeston-on-Hull, “ litster,” quer., Thomas son of Peter Nuttel, knight \militis], and Avice his wife, def., of 1 messuage in Kyngeston-on-Hull : To hold to Robert and his heirs ; he gave 20 marks. Release by Thomas and Avice for themselves and the heirs of Avice.
So I went back to the index of the manuscripts (Dodsworth MS vol I in Bodleian library) and there it says on the same folio as Robert, is Amicia Nuttel and Thomas Nuttel kt. But no Robert de Anlaghby only Robert de Dulaghby.
My dilemma now is which one to believe regarding ROBERT? there is a place in Hull called Analby.
But I do have a date!
Once again thank you all very much appreciate your help.
-
The first letter of the name as written in Dodsworth’s copy is definitely D and not A, but Dodsworth’s transcription of the record is obviously many years later, and we don’t know his source.
I would check the source reference given in the YAS transcription – they have probably used the original court records – and go with that. It makes good sense to me that Robert would be ‘of Anlaghby’ [= Anlaby].
-
Dodsworth used mainly the cartularies of priories and churches held during his time by Lord Fairfax.
the YAS book used the feet of fines held in Public record offices.
I am with you on this Robert de Analby is what I am going with.
thank you again
-
Please can you confirm that this one is a charter of land being gifted to Kirkham priory by Walter Sowerbi (Sowerby) with Henry Duggleby as witness to same.
thank you
-
In a general sense it does match your description. It appears to be a later copy and in part is quite hard to read.
Nevertheless the essentials appear to be:
Carta Walt(e)ri de Saurebi
...Walter(u)m de Saurebi....concessise & dedisse...ecclesie de sancte Trinitatis de Kirkaham...unu(m) toftum cu(m) crofti [?] adiacente in Kirkebi in Crandala cu(m) omnibus p(er)tin(entiis)...q(uo)d Thomas fil(ius) Norman(i) tenuit...
Charter of Walter de Saurebi
...Walter de Saurebi...has granted and given...to the church of Saint Trinity of Kirkaham...one toft with a croft [?] adjoining in Kirkebi in Crandala with all appurtenances...which Thomas the son of Norman holds...
The witness name is trickier. There's a Henrico de _____gilbi. (Near the end of the second last line.)
It may begin with D but I'm not at all sure. The letters in between are ambiguous.
By the way, there's also a witness named Thoma _____gilesbi. In this case the initial is most likely to be T.
ADDED:
For comparison there's a name which I think is Drogone as the penultimate word of the third last line.
-
Thank you so much for this!
These are copies made by Roger Dodsworth in 17th century from much earler originals and cartularies held by Lord Fairfax.
Dodsworths manuscripts were later indexed by Dugdale and I worked from the index which said henry de Dingelby (another variant of Duggleby) was mentioned on f 203v.
Folio 203v as you see spells it as Diuegilbi - my best guess at the spelling as i have seen this variant many times before.
Thank you for finding
" By the way, there's also a witness named Thoma _____gilesbi. In this case the initial is most likely to be T"
this is not in the index and I would have totally missed it.
I am using these documents to cross reference to early yorkshire charters and Deeds, Feet of fines etc to date them.
I have a lot of refrences to Dugglebys in 12th, 13th and 14th century and thought I would try to make a family tree from them once I have them all translated and cross refrenced.
I have already conducted a one name study of Dugglebys back to about 1550 and all across the world which I have posted here
https://familytrees.genopro.com/Duggleby/
you have been a tremendous help thank you again.
kind regards
Ell
-
Hello again
These are the last 2 I need help with please.
The one attached to this post (Dodsworth MS V7 f205 - Copy)
Please can you confirm this is
Reginald son of Peter de L...? of land to Kirkham priory... Adam de Duggleby witness
I have posted the last one seperately.
thank you
-
LAST ONE!! (Dodsworth MS V7 f304r - Copy)
Please can you confirm that this one says William de Ros granted land to Kirkham priory... Adam de Dugelby witness.
thank you
-
The one attached to this post (Dodsworth MS V7 f205 - Copy)
Please can you confirm this is
Reginald son of Peter de L...? of land to Kirkham priory... Adam de Duggleby witness
Carta Reginaldi filij Petri d(omi)ni de Lonsbrugh
Charter of Reginald, son of Peter, lord of Lonsbrugh. (Maybe = Londesborough ?)
Adam de Dugleby is among the witnesses (3 lines up).
-
Please can you confirm that this one says William de Ros granted land to Kirkham priory... Adam de Dugelby witness.
William de Ros ... to the church of the Holy Trinity of Kirkeham and the canons serving God there ... 6 bovates of land with tofts and crofts [etc.] ... in Barton, which the canons hold from the gift of William of Barton. Also 12 bovates of land [etc.] ... in Kirkeby Crandale, from the gift of Walter de Wildeker.
Adam de Dugelby is among the witnesses.
The dating clause shows ‘the day before the Feast of the Exaltation of the Holy Cross 1253’ (= 13 September). The year 1253 is also in the margin.
This on Kirkeby Crandale ...
http://epns.nottingham.ac.uk/browse/East+Riding+of+Yorkshire/Kirby+Grindalythe/5328549ab47fc40a4d0004ed-Kirby+Grindalythe
-
thank you all so much!
You have saved me a fortune in translation fees and taught me how to read a little latin in the process.
kind regards
Ell