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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: zetlander on Saturday 03 July 21 19:18 BST (UK)
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Sent for a copy of the Will of William Marshall of Mere House Weaverham Chshire who died 8 April 1900.
Given a copy of a Letter of Administration.
Administrator of Will - Edward Ault Marson Solicitor Manchester.
Named in said Will 'Charles Greenhouse and Anne Elias Spinster the other Executors named in the said Will having renounced Probate thereof 21 June 1900'
Amount £127829-8-0.
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That is all the info I got. Included is note -- 'Can't give a copy of the Will - Reason - that in this case is a Grant of Letters of Administration. A legal document issued by a Probate Registry when a person has died without making a valid Will and is issued to an Administrator of the Estate. This is usually lawful spouse or nearest blood relative.
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Confused as in first paragraph it refers to '......named in said Will.'
Also would Ann Elias who lived with Wm Marshall (not married.) and was the mother of his children benefit from the 'Will' as she wasn't the spouse?
Thanks.
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If the original will was not available at the time of his death and there was only a copy - then it's administration.
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There is a piece in the paper which does give the details, it's in the Liverpool Daily Post 5th Jul 1900, just having difficulty posting the actual article at the moment!
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In this case the index refers to Probate, not Administration; and the phrase "Executors named in the said Will" suggests that the will was available.
As willsy says, the Liverpool Daily Post of 5 July 1900 (page 8 ) carries a report of the will and its principal bequests, and it looks as though "Mrs F. Elias Marshall" was quite well provided for. The report can be seen at FindMyPast and presumably the British Newspaper Archive, but I don't think T&Cs allow us to say much more here.
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There are two notes on the probate calendar, resworn March 1901, and resworn again at a later (undeciferable) date.
It suggests to me that the will was decided to be invalid, admin would mean his children would share the very considerable sum.
Mike
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Yes, that is a possibility - I wonder if there are any later press reports on this.
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The 1891 is interesting, the kids were still minors in 1900, his partner is Annie Elias.
Who is the mrs f Elias Marshall, if she is Annie then she might have found it hard to prove her entitlement.
Mike
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The main points of the newspaper article are:
Probate of the will dated 4th April 1900. Left £127829 8s gross, £19075 14s 9d net to Edward Ault Marson.
Mrs F. Elias Marshall, having renounced probate, was left a life annuity of £700 plus a few other things.
Remainder of the income of the trust estate is paid to testator's daughters Sarah, Eleanor and Mary Ann and his residuary estate is left in trust for them.
The paper details have been given by arthurk if you wish to see the full article.
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I see that the 1891 census gives the daughters surnames as Elias - Sarah Marshall Elias (1881), Eleanor M. Elias (1882) and Maryanne M Elias (1883).
Birth registrations for them?
ELIAS, SARAH MARSHALL THOMAS
GRO Reference: 1880 S Quarter in ORMSKIRK Volume 08B Page 805
ELIAS, ELEANOR MARSHALL -
GRO Reference: 1881 D Quarter in NORTHWICH Volume 08A Page 243
ELIAS, MARIANNE MARSHALL -
GRO Reference: 1882 D Quarter in NORTHWICH Volume 08A Page 246
Sarah's place of birth is given as Southport, Lancashire, the other two girls are Weaverham, Cheshire.
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Hhmm well I appear to have found William and Annie in the 1881 census living at Mere Farm, Sandy Lane, Weaverham, Northwich, Cheshire
William is stated as being married and Annie is single and a servant.
Registration district Northwich
Sub district Weaverham
Archive reference RG11
Piece number 3521
Folio 49
Page 28
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William is a married man in the 1871 census, again living at Tarporley Road Mere Brow, Weaverham, Northwich, Cheshire with wife Agnes born 1848 Chester, Cheshire.
No children listed, just two servants.
William's occupation is given as Gray Cloth Agent.
Registration district Northwich
Sub district Weaverham
Enumeration district 10
Archive reference RG10
Piece number 3694
Folio 131
Page 9
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Previous post for background
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=849277.0
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Thanks for the replies.
Wm Marshall worth a bob or two !
I wonder if he never married Annie Elias because his wife Agnes was still alive ??
At least Annie and daughters were provided for.
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Yes, this post linked to another one - it looks as if William Marshall was the father of William Theodore Smith who was brought up from babyhood alongside my grandmother in North Wales.
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At least Annie and daughters were provided for.
Yes, but..... As Mike pointed out, if the will was found to be invalid (which might explain why you were sent an Administration rather than a Probate), everything would have gone to the children and Annie wouldn't have got anything:
It suggests to me that the will was decided to be invalid, admin would mean his children would share the very considerable sum.
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At least Annie and daughters were provided for.
Yes, but..... As Mike pointed out, if the will was found to be invalid (which might explain why you were sent an Administration rather than a Probate), everything would have gone to the children and Annie wouldn't have got anything:
It suggests to me that the will was decided to be invalid, admin would mean his children would share the very considerable sum.
Would it make a difference if the parents of the daughters hadn't married?
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If they were not married at the time of his death then Annie had no claim on his estate, it’s different now.
If he is the father of the children then they are of his full blood regardless of who the mother was.
The other point I noticed was the newspaper report mentioning “the estate in trust”, it may be he had willed assets not his to leave depending on the trust deed.
I guess we will never be sure, unless the case went to chancery
Mike
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Going back to my original thread - William Theodore Marshall son of William Marshall and Martha Maud Marshall (nee Aungle) b.1879 in North Wales (pregnancy hidden.) (William and Martha unmarried.)
He was 'adopted into the Smith family - renamed William T Smith and was regarded as a brother by my grandmother and the rest of the Smith siblings.
The above William Marshall had three daughters with Annie Elias (William and Annie were unmarried.)
If the three daughters were beneficiaries of William quite substantial Will then William Theodore could have had a claim. He doesn't seem to have been a beneficiary though. Pity, - he didn't have any children and my mother was his favourite niece........
Thanks.
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But if he had a legitimate wife, still living and receiving maintainance then she would have a claim on the estate.
Mike
Added, in 1900 estates were split into real estate, mainly land, and personal estate.
The legitimate heir would inherit the real estate as of right, with the widow entitled to a third of the income, and lots more complicated bits.
I give up
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thanks Mazi --- Nil desperandum ! :-* :-*
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"Named in said Will Charles Greenhouse and Anne Elias Spinster the other Executors named in the said Will having renounced Probate thereof 21 June 1900"
Having experienced something similar, where the deceased had made a Will but one of the two named Executors had predeceased & the other had renounced, I subsequently came to understand the following.
Although the Will itself had undoubtedly been technically valid, because there were no Executors to apply for Probate it could not be proven thus leading to the issue of Letters of Administration.
As the consequence of this it would be expected that the assets of the Estate would still have been distributed as directed in the Will but, in this instance, by the appointed Administrator in the stead of the non-available (named) Executors.
Willyam
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Thanks Willyam.