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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Northumberland => Topic started by: Revolution on Tuesday 06 July 21 01:26 BST (UK)
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Hi
A number of family trees on ancestry have Isabella Welch nee Lynch death as 1926. I dont think this is correct as the 1901 census has all her children living together and shes not there. The children are in Walker, Northumberland.
I found a death record on family search of Isabella Welch burial on 8 October 1896. Her birth around 1849 which fits with what we know.
Event Type:
Burial
Name:
Isabella Welch
Age:
47
Death or Burial Date:
8 Oct 1896
Death or Burial Place:
Walker, Northumberland, England, United Kingdom
Birth Year (Estimated):
1849
Ive gone to the GRO and can only find this record where the person is listed as being 2 years old. Ive tried modifying the search and cant find the exact record. Any ideas why?
WELCH, ISABELLA 2
GRO Reference: 1896 D Quarter in NEWCASTLE-UPON-TYNE Volume 10B Page 71
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Her husband Robert died in 1894 and his probate index has Isabella still alive then.
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Revolution, I am baffled too. I have spent some time trying to solve this, but have not come up with the answer. The burial you have found looks like a good fit.
Perhaps her death was never registered? It may have been over looked by her children.
One other thought that might be worth following through: There is a marriage for an Isabella Welch in 1895 Newcastle upon Tyne. Did she re-marry? ... and then die under her married name, but was buried as Welch by her family?
Hopefully someone else may find the answer.
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Hi and thank you for the responses. Very interesting if she got married and died immediately after. This might be the marriage
Event Type:
Marriage
Registration District:
Newcastle Upon Tyne
Name:
Isabella Welch
Marriage Date:
1895
Marriage Place:
Newcastle Upon Tyne, Northumberland, England
Volume:
10B
Affiliate Line Number:
379
Registration Quarter:
Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration Year:
1895
Possible Spouse:
Mary Ann Bell
Possible Spouse:
Thomas Smith
Possible Spouse:
William Snowdon
Possible Spouse:
Isabella Welsh
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Hi,
I've found these obituaries which fit the burial you have and the 1891 address,
Newcastle Evening Chronicle 07 October 1896
Walker - WELCH 15 Somerset Terrace, 5th inst. Isabella wife of the late Robert WELCH. Internment Walker Churchyard, Thursday 3.15pm.
Shields Daily News 08 October 1896
WELCH - At 15 Somerset Terrace, Walker on the 5th inst. Isabella wife of the late Robert WELCH
Do you think she could have been registered as Elizabeth, or a mistake made?
Elizabeth WELCH Dec Q 1896 Tynemouth 10b 145
Age: 46
Regards,
Daisy
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Thank you Daisypetal. Definitely the right Isabella in the newspaper.
Very interesting. She did have a daughter Elizabeth. I wonder if they got informant name and persons name mixed up.
Two Welches dying in the same year. One 20 and one 46
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You could try contacting the local register office to see if they have the original, the first name could have been mistranscribed on its way to the GRO. Unfortunately Northumberland doesn't seem to have it's BMD records online.
I think this would be the right one but I'm not sure.
https://my.northtyneside.gov.uk/page/12308/apply-copy-certificates
I have seen other certificates which have different info on the original. :)
Daisy
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Ive just emailed them. Thanks Daisy
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My pleasure,
Let us know how it goes. :)
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http://www.marriage-locator.co.uk
If you put the marriage details into Marriage Locator you will see that this indicates marriage was at Holy Saviour, Tynemouth.
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An update:
"I have been trying to find Elizabeth’s records but it doesn’t look like they’re with our office. Unfortunately records around this time were split between our office, Northumberland and Newcastle when boundaries changed."
Thank you RTL. I didnt know that the ONS had that.
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I'm sorry that was the wrong one, after looking again, with less tired eyes :) I think this might be the right Register Office.
You might have found it already but just in case,
https://www.newcastle.gov.uk/services/births-deaths-and-marriages/family-history/records-held-newcastle-register-office
"Tynemouth
Most records are held at North Shields Register Office. We hold the following for the Longbenton (Walker Parish Church) sub-district:
Births and deaths: 1837 to 1936
Church of England marriages: 1848 to 1936
Catholic marriages: 1922 to date"
Isabella was buried in Walker :)
Regards,
Daisy
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Hi Daisy
Id emailed both of them this morning. The one you mentioned may charge to look it up but if they have a copy it will be worth it.
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Just a quick update - I wont be ordering the 2 year olds death certificate. Im assuming they meant 1896. Both of the other offices have already come back and said it should be with the office below:
I have located the death certificate of Isabella Welch and it is an entry for a 2 year old and this is the correct age. Do you wish me to send this out? I cannot find an entry here at Newcastle for Elizabeth Welch 1996 but free bmd shows that she is likely at Tynemouth which is a different Register office…likely at North Tyneside Register Office. Or alternatively at Northumberland. Obviously we will be happy to refund the fee if you do not wish to receive the certificate for the 2 year old.
Website address www.newcastle.gov.uk
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Deleted very sad :(
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Thank you Jonw65! I used your info in the email I referred to below. (Edit)
Ive just sent a reply email. Wish me luck!
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Hi,
Thanks for the update :)
So many Register Offices for the area, so confusing!
Have you tried,
https://my.northtyneside.gov.uk/category/173/births-deaths-and-marriages
That's the one that says it holds following for the Longbenton (Walker Parish Church) sub-district?
Daisy
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That's the one that says it holds following for the Longbenton (Walker Parish Church) sub-district?
Newcastle Register Office says that it holds those
Records held at Newcastle Register Office
https://www.newcastle.gov.uk/services/births-deaths-and-marriages/family-history/records-held-newcastle-register-office
Dec qtr 1896 Tynemouth vol 10b page 145
Ten deaths on there. Nine are in the Newcastle RO Historical Searches for deaths in 1896, that's Charlotte Blevins, William Connon, Ann McKeon, etc etc (I won't go through them all again, though I've deleted that ignored :( post)
Plus they have one Isabella Welch death in that year, presumably the two year old, and no Elizabeth
Very strange
They do have an Elizabeth Welsh death in 1896 in the Newcastle database.
There is no Elizabeth Welsh death reg in the north east in 1896 in the GRO indexes. Perhaps Newcastle made a mistake in reading the surname?
Ive just sent a reply email. Wish me luck!
You could just order the pdf of the death of Elizabeth Welch from the GRO for £7 and have done with it. See if it is your person, it is virtually certain to be.
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I think this might be the right Register Office.
https://www.newcastle.gov.uk/services/births-deaths-and-marriages/family-history/records-held-newcastle-register-office
"Tynemouth
Most records are held at North Shields Register Office. We hold the following for the Longbenton (Walker Parish Church) sub-district:
Births and deaths: 1837 to 1936
Church of England marriages: 1848 to 1936
Catholic marriages: 1922 to date"
That was absolutely right by Daisypetal, who found the Elizabeth death reg to begin with!
I do think the problem is at Newcastle RO.
If Elizabeth Welsh died 1896 is in fact Elizabeth Welch (hopefully), then it would appear that the (likely) error in the name, which should have been Isabella, was made at the time of the original registration, rather than when sending the copy returns to the GRO.
Wish me luck!
Good luck!
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Thank you Jonw65 and daisy. Jonw65 I fixed my earlier post.
I'll wait till the office responds to Jonw65 info then get my refund then order the Elizabeth certificate.
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Sadly, no progression. Ill cancel the order and save myself a couple of pounds
"Sometimes names are changed naturally in the course of someones life so I would be more looking at the age to decide whether this is the entry that you need."
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The GRO certificate was uploaded today
Elizabeth Welch 5 Oct 1896, 15 Somerset terrace, Walker. Age 46 years. Widow of Robert Welch - Foreman - Ship plater. Informant - Archibald Welch - brother in law
Definitely the right person. The mistake may have come from Archibald
Thank you for your help!
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Hi,
Thank you for letting us know that the death certificate was the right one. It's always nice to know that things have worked out well :)
Regards,
Daisy