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Research in Other Countries => Other Countries => Topic started by: nicdigby on Thursday 08 July 21 20:29 BST (UK)
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Hi,
Tales of British India run through one side of the family, in particular one man whose wife left him and sailed back to England with her son. He then had at least six children with an unknown woman, and the story goes that she was Indian and he was part of the white British India society so it wasn't spoken about back then. Strangely we have all his diaries for his whole life except for 13 years covering his first wife's departure and the birth of all his next children - we think someone got rid of them at some point to cover up what happened. His later diaries acknowledge all the new children - but NEVER mention a second wife, or her name, or who she is, or that she is living with him; he seems to do all the journeys to school etc for the children.
I have found one extra sister who I hadn't found on Ancestry and the photo shows a lady of Indian descent, but I have no way of verifying how accurate that Ancestry member is in claiming the same man fathered that sister.
Wondering if anyone fancies trying to solve a 200 year old mystery please?
What I know:
Robert Smith COOMBS b 5 Jul 1793 Kent. his father was William (a vicar) and his mother was Susannah. Robert joined the Navy and then went to India, landing in 1815.
He married Louisa Charlotte CARTER, b 27 Apr 1806 in Bengal, India the daughter of Philip Carter.
Louisa and Robert Smith Coombs had one son together: Robert William Coombs, born 27 Aug 1829. Ancestry members say he was born in Chittagong, in modern day Bangladesh.
Louisa and the son left India in about 1846, and worked at Somerset House in London.
His father stayed in India, in the area of Bhojeepore, Buxar and Dinapore towns, later moving to Gahmun. His diaries mention they travelled by horse-drawn vehicles and only latterly by train so I would imagine his children were born locally. But the diaries didn't mention his first son ever again until the 12th of 12 re-writes of his Will when he mentions that Robert should the the executor and guardian of his six 'natural' children. Does this mean that there wasn't a second marriage ceremony? Was she a common-law wife? Was she of Indian descent?
I think (from his diaries) that the six children were:
John Archer Coombs b 1 Aug 1848
Charles James Coombs b 2 Aug 1850
Frances Louisa Coombs b 30 Jul 1852
Catherine Eliza Coombs b 25 Dec 1854
Arthur Henry Coombs b 30 Jan 1857
Frank Smith Coombs (our branch) b 11 Oct 1859
Can anyone find a mother for these children, other than the 'Sophia' that multiple Ancestry members appear to have copied from each other please? Or anything that may solve the mystery why his first wife left and went home to England, never to be mentioned again? (Robert stayed friendly with his MIL apparently but took 15 years to mention his FIL in his diaries again).
Any help from a sleuth much appreciated!
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You probably already have this information but from the 'Friend of India and Statesman' newspaper 9 November 1877.
Under deaths
COOMBS - At Goruckpore, on the 26th October, John Archer Coombs, Indigo Planter - Aged 29 years.
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There is another newspaper article in the Sussex Agricultural Express, on Jan 12 1907. It's pretty long so I can't copy the whole thing out, but it says that a widow called Mrs Phylis Coombs was seeking compensation for the death of her son, Charles James Coombs who died in an accident at Sussex Portland cement works in October 1906.
Obviously I don't know if that's the one you are writing about.
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You probably already have this information but from the 'Friend of India and Statesman' newspaper 9 November 1877.
Under deaths
COOMBS - At Goruckpore, on the 26th October, John Archer Coombs, Indigo Planter - Aged 29 years.
Yes, this one is in his father’s diary - John died in a pig-sticking accident which means some form of hunting accident I think. Thank you.
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There is another newspaper article in the Sussex Agricultural Express, on Jan 12 1907. It's pretty long so I can't copy the whole thing out, but it says that a widow called Mrs Phylis Coombs was seeking compensation for the death of her son, Charles James Coombs who died in an accident at Sussex Portland cement works in October 1906.
Obviously I don't know if that's the one you are writing about.
Thank you but it’s not the right one, my Charles James Coombs died in India in April 1913.
It’s really who their mother is that I’m after!
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The India Office records have the following death Louisa Coombe, age 35, 7th August 1941 at Buxar the wife of Mr R S Coombs Indigo planter.
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The India Office records have the following death Louisa Coombe, age 35, 7th August 1941 at Buxar the wife of Mr R S Coombs Indigo planter.
Now that is interesting because a relation who tried to track the family tree in the 1990s has stated she came back with her son to England.
But the record you’ve found would suggest that didn’t happen ?
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Robert should the the executor and guardian of his six 'natural' children. Does this mean that there wasn't a second marriage ceremony? Was she a common-law wife? Was she of Indian descent?
Yes. natural children means the parents were not married.
Of Indian descent? Well, if Frank Smith Coombs is your branch…are you?
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I just found the marriage record of the son from the first marriage, June 1862 in Jersey. Place of birth, Buxar, East Indies so it’s the correct person. Age 33. Bachelor. So the son definitely left India.
But I wonder why my relative in the 1990s has found / stipulated that Louisa came back with her son when he would have been quite young, if she actually died. The father literally NEVER mentions his first son in the diaries except when he is near death and then he suddenly makes him the executor of his 12th will.
I wonder if anyone can find the emigration of the son, Robert William Coombs, out of India, to see if he travelled alone or with his mother?
And am still wanting to find the mother of the other six “natural” children to find out if the gossip that she was of Indian race is correct…..not the done thing back then in white British colonial society, but interesting that if that happened, then none of the family today show any visual signs of it, and none of our grandparents etc either….all white, blue eyes, fair complexion etc.
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Robert should the the executor and guardian of his six 'natural' children. Does this mean that there wasn't a second marriage ceremony? Was she a common-law wife? Was she of Indian descent?
Yes. natural children means the parents were not married.
Of Indian descent? Well, if Frank Smith Coombs is your branch…are you?
Thank you.
Cross post. Nope, all the family are white, blue eyes, fair complexion right across the board and up to the grandparents.
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Online trees suggest the mother of the subsequent children was Mary Archer. She doesn't sound Indian.
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Online trees suggest the mother of the subsequent children was Mary Archer. She doesn't sound Indian.
Thank you. With the trees you’ve found, have they managed to provide sources? I’ve come across Mary Archer too but no sources and multiple others suggest mother as “Sophia” and I am aware how many people on ancestry just copy each other. Was Mary Archer born in India?
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I see Louisa Charlotte Carter’s mother was named Louisa Sophia. I wonder if that is where that name has come in.
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There is a death announcement in the Morning Herald, London to say that Louisa Coombe the beloved wife of Mr R S Coombs died at Buxar on 7th August aged 35 years and 3 months.
If Robert was free to marry, you have to ask if the mother of the later children wasn't ???
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There is a death announcement in the Morning Herald, London to say that Louisa Coombe the beloved wife of Mr R S Coombs died at Buxar on 7th August aged 35 years and 3 months.
If Robert was free to marry, you have to ask if the mother of the later children wasn't ???
Yes indeed, and it is interesting that the family historian thirty years ago states that Louisa sailed back to England with her child, when actually she died in India. So what happened to her son? I cannot find an emigration record for him from India at all….but I can see that he married in Jersey and died in SE England.
And the mother of the later children. Who was she and as you’ve pointed out, perhaps she wasn’t free to marry?
I’ve had a look at the Ancestry records for Mary Archer whom three Ancestry people name as his second wife…none of them have the second marriage source and all of them have a mystery seventh child (Mary) added so I think they’ve copied each other. The question is, are they correct? Or Are some others who all claim she’s called Sophia?
And why isn’t she mentioned ever in the diaries? I mean, never. Not even in his Will etc despite bearing him six children.
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Regarding the missing diaries. Perhaps they were lost around this time…
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Regarding the missing diaries. Perhaps they were lost around this time…
Thank you, this is really interesting. The Coombs were indeed indigo traders and it’s the correct location.
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Have any of your relatives taken dna tests that would show ethnicity and possible links to ARCHER relatives
Im wondering if the lady who left India with her son could have been Louisa's mother leaving with her grandson .. family stories get distorted sometimes
How many of the natural childrens descendants have you traced ? Maybe some will have photos
Following this story with interest
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There is another Coombs in the census returns in England with an Indian wife and their children, her name is Eyetee Coombs. Perhaps someone got these Coombs mixed up with your Coombs.
I also wondered if any of these 'natural' children have birth/marriage/death certs which may name their mother.
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I think the only clue to mother of the younger children is the middle name of the first son: John Archer.
The first census that Robert William can be found is in 1861 where he is living with his wife in Lewisham. However they don't appear to have married until 1862 in Jersey which is odd.
It looks like he's living with his aunt in Marylebone 1851 - dreadful image/writing.
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One of the witnesses to Catherine Eliza Coombs' marriage to William French at Buxar in 1873 is named Ratis Coombs. The image that FindMyPast has appears to be a copy from the original record, as it is all written in the same hand, so that may not be exactly what the person actually signed. Do you know who that is?
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There is another Coombs in the census returns in England with an Indian wife and their children, her name is Eyetee Coombs. Perhaps someone got these Coombs mixed up with your Coombs.
I also wondered if any of these 'natural' children have birth/marriage/death certs which may name their mother.
Thank you. Do you know how I would get hold of one of the birth certs? Presumably it's not the GRO?
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I think the only clue to mother of the younger children is the middle name of the first son: John Archer.
The first census that Robert William can be found is in 1861 where he is living with his wife in Lewisham. However they don't appear to have married until 1862 in Jersey which is odd.
It looks like he's living with his aunt in Marylebone 1851 - dreadful image/writing.
Thank you, yes you may be right that the Archer middle name is a clue, thank you.
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One of the witnesses to Catherine Eliza Coombs' marriage to William French at Buxar in 1873 is named Ratis Coombs. The image that FindMyPast has appears to be a copy from the original record, as it is all written in the same hand, so that may not be exactly what the person actually signed. Do you know who that is?
This is interesting. I dont' have access to FindMyPast. I don't know who Ratis Coombs is. I wondered if it could be Frances Coombs but she married before her sister so her surname would have changed by the time of the marriage you are talking about.
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Further to Forguette's post, there are some details about Eyetee Coombs and her husband in the paper, that might help clear things up, perhaps some of it matches what your diaries say, or if not at all they can be ruled out?
From the newspaper 'The Lloyd's Weekly Newspaper' on Sat 20 April 1890.
"Death of an Indian Veteran. - Dr Danfield Thomas held and inquest at the Holburn Town Hall, on Wednesday, on the body of Mr Henry Augustus Coombs, aged 55 years, who died at his residence 73 Lambs' Conduit-Street, W.C. on Saturday morning last. Mrs Eyetee Coombs, the widow, a native of India, identified the body and stated that the deceased and his family arrived in London from India on Wednesday the 9th inst. He was suffering from general debility. On Saturday morning she prepared him his usual cup of tea, and on requesting him to drink it found that he was dead. Mr Henry A Coombs, the eldest son, gave an outline of the deceased's services. At the outbreak of the India mutiny he was in the Civil Service, and then volunteered for military duty, joining Hodsons Horse. He served with distinction under General Havelock at Cawnpore, and was also at Lucknow, being rewarded with a commission. He was present at other engagements and promoted to the rank of Major subsequently. He joined the Bengal police as superintendent and was second in command to Superintendent Howard (now one of the chiefs at Scotland Yard). During the service with the police, who in India combine military duties with those of the Civil service, he was present at a number of engagements in the North-West Provinces, being specially mentioned in the dispatches. After 37 years of active duty, he underwent a medical examination by Dr William Coates, senior officer in the medical staff in Bengal, and was invalided home. Dr. Bremner 26 Druary Lane, stated that the cause of death was the bursting of a blood vessel on the brain. The jury recorded a verdict accordingly. "
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Further to Forguette's post, there are some details about Eyetee Coombs and her husband in the paper, that might help clear things up, perhaps some of it matches what your diaries say, or if not at all they can be ruled out?
From the newspaper 'The Lloyd's Weekly Newspaper' on Sat 20 April 1890.
"Death of an Indian Veteran. - Dr Danfield Thomas held and inquest at the Holburn Town Hall, on Wednesday, on the body of Mr Henry Augustus Coombs, aged 55 years, who died at his residence 73 Lambs' Conduit-Street, W.C. on Saturday morning last. Mrs Eyetee Coombs, the widow, a native of India, identified the body and stated that the deceased and his family arrived in London from India on Wednesday the 9th inst. He was suffering from general debility. On Saturday morning she prepared him his usual cup of tea, and on requesting him to drink it found that he was dead. Mr Henry A Coombs, the eldest son, gave an outline of the deceased's services. At the outbreak of the India mutiny he was in the Civil Service, and then volunteered for military duty, joining Hodsons Horse. He served with distinction under General Havelock at Cawnpore, and was also at Lucknow, being rewarded with a commission. He was present at other engagements and promoted to the rank of Major subsequently. He joined the Bengal police as superintendent and was second in command to Superintendent Howard (now one of the chiefs at Scotland Yard). During the service with the police, who in India combine military duties with those of the Civil service, he was present at a number of engagements in the North-West Provinces, being specially mentioned in the dispatches. After 37 years of active duty, he underwent a medical examination by Dr William Coates, senior officer in the medical staff in Bengal, and was invalided home. Dr. Bremner 26 Druary Lane, stated that the cause of death was the bursting of a blood vessel on the brain. The jury recorded a verdict accordingly. "
Thank you. It's an interesting article but I don't have any recognition for any of the names. I have only gone up the direct branch though. But if it's on another branch, it doesn't help me uncover the mother of the six children.
Does anyone know if Indian birth certs for the six 'natural' children would have the mother's name on them? And if so, how do I order copies? I've been onto this link https://indiafamily.bl.uk/UI/OrderCopy.aspx .... but can't find the children on there so don't know the folio numbers etc
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Sorry I don't know the answer to your question, but here are links to some who probably do.
https://www.fibis.org
https://rsaa.org.uk
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Sorry I don't know the answer to your question, but here are links to some who probably do.
https://www.fibis.org
https://rsaa.org.uk
thank you
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Hi again,
I've found something that might be the son being put on a ship from India back to England. Does anyone have access to the "Bengal Directory 1839" because on the Families in British India Society page, they have that directory as having a record of "master" Coombs on board the "Robert Small" ship sailing Feb 1838 Calcutta to London. If I could see the image rather than just the transcript it might tell me if he's on his own or who his parents are etc? Can't find it on Ancestry. No other records matching that one of an adult at the same time so maybe he travelled alone, going to English boarding school perhaps?
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Hi again,
I've found something that might be the son being put on a ship from India back to England. Does anyone have access to the "Bengal Directory 1839" because on the Families in British India Society page, they have that directory as having a record of "master" Coombs on board the "Robert Small" ship sailing Feb 1838 Calcutta to London. If I could see the image rather than just the transcript it might tell me if he's on his own or who his parents are etc? Can't find it on Ancestry. No other records matching that one of an adult at the same time so maybe he travelled alone, going to English boarding school perhaps?
Maybe here somewhere?
https://wiki.fibis.org/w/Directories_online
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Hi again,
I've found something that might be the son being put on a ship from India back to England. Does anyone have access to the "Bengal Directory 1839" because on the Families in British India Society page, they have that directory as having a record of "master" Coombs on board the "Robert Small" ship sailing Feb 1838 Calcutta to London. If I could see the image rather than just the transcript it might tell me if he's on his own or who his parents are etc? Can't find it on Ancestry. No other records matching that one of an adult at the same time so maybe he travelled alone, going to English boarding school perhaps?
Maybe here somewhere?
https://wiki.fibis.org/w/Directories_online
Brilliant, found it! Thank you. No clues though, other than “master “ Coombs looks to be travelling alone.
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You said earlier that you'd only looked at direct line
I suggest branching out ..you can get all sorts of information from slightly distant relatives
Maybe a single relative would leave something in will to the children
Or you may find them living working or being adopted sponsored with more distant family members
Also it comes in useful for establishing links if any family members do DNA.( + You can see which family members have any Indian ethnicity)
I'm enjoying following your search and the bits of information rootschat are helping you to find
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I don't know whether you have come across this article on p.3 in The Citrus Tree (a genealogical newsletter published in Citrus County FLA - nice picture of Frank Coombs' house):
http://citrusgenealogy.com/uploads/3/0/4/2/3042427/ccgs_october_2012_newsletter.pdf
This was published in 2012, so the person who wrote about her Coombs family might not still be around, but she says that her father was Kenneth Coombs - whom I suppose was Kenneth Smith Coombs, who married Dapne James at Mussorie in 1930 - so it might be worth chasing that up in case she can tell you anything.
If you try googling her name + Citrus County, there's a possible address.
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You said earlier that you'd only looked at direct line
I suggest branching out ..you can get all sorts of information from slightly distant relatives
Maybe a single relative would leave something in will to the children
Or you may find them living working or being adopted sponsored with more distant family members
Also it comes in useful for establishing links if any family members do DNA.( + You can see which family members have any Indian ethnicity)
Thank you, yes I think this will be the next thing to do, thank you.
I'm enjoying following your search and the bits of information rootschat are helping you to find
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I don't know whether you have come across this article on p.3 in The Citrus Tree (a genealogical newsletter published in Citrus County FLA - nice picture of Frank Coombs' house):
http://citrusgenealogy.com/uploads/3/0/4/2/3042427/ccgs_october_2012_newsletter.pdf
This was published in 2012, so the person who wrote about her Coombs family might not still be around, but she says that her father was Kenneth Coombs - whom I suppose was Kenneth Smith Coombs, who married Dapne James at Mussorie in 1930 - so it might be worth chasing that up in case she can tell you anything.
If you try googling her name + Citrus County, there's a possible address.
thank you. The article you refer to is helpful and interesting.
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Hi all,
Have been working hard today on expanding the general family tree sideways to try and get clues about who the mother was. Have found another child on another Ancestry member's page; they state he died within a year of birth in 1841 and that his name was Robert Smith Coombs like his father.
This would the baby died Jan 1841 and the mother a few months after. There are no sources. I cannot find anything anywhere about this baby: Ancestry/FindMyPast - no mention of him. Can anyone do better than me please?
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Secondly, am trying to find the cause of a young death in my direct family and have not been able to find a death record or reason on FindMyPast or Ancestry...again if anyone has any clues I'd be grateful:
Louis Walden Coley b 18 Jun 1894 in India. Son of Joseph Henry Coley.
He married Agnes Cristabel Coombs in 28 Feb 1922 in Gorukhpore, India.
He died in 1928 according to the type written notes left by my family tree predecessor who researched in the 1990s, but she didn't give a reason. He would only have been 34. His wife remarried.
He was in the army and I can see that hundreds of men in the Indian Army died of Cholera (shocking to see the pages of them, all young men, all with cholera given as the cause of death) but I can't find anything about his death.
Can anyone find anything at all please?
There is this info about his army career, stolen from another Ancestry poster:
"He was a pre war regular (attested 1913) as he has the 14 Star with clasp & roses.
He applies for the clasp in 1923 giving an address of:
Eastern Bengal Coy.
AFI Dacca E. Bengal.
Info:
http://armenianchurchbangladesh.com/photo-gallery/dhaka-social-history/eastern-bengal-volunteers/
His WW1 service record didn't survive & his record post war is not held by the MOD.
Eastern Bengal Volunteer Rifle Corps, Bengal Army
Eastern Bengal Volunteer Rifle Corps was raised on 23rd January 1901 by the British Empire in India. It was later re-designated as the 41st Eastern Bengal Company and the Eastern Bengal Company."
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Query No.1 That baby would be by his wife Louisa, if she died in Aug 1841.
Perhaps Bearkats source will have something?
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Question 1
There is an index card on FindMyPast
That reads
COOMBS. Robert Smith
Died 1841 Jan 19
M.I. Buxar
Copyright Society of Genealogists
So it must be an entry in one of their card indexes
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Question 2
This entry in "British Armed Forces and overseas deaths and burials" also on FindMyPast
columns are age, station, year and page.
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Question 2
This entry in "British Armed Forces and overseas deaths and burials" also on FindMyPast
columns are age, station, year and page.
Thank you. I can’t see any cause of death, can you see anything?
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Question 1
There is an index card on FindMyPast
That reads
COOMBS. Robert Smith
Died 1841 Jan 19
M.I. Buxar
Copyright Society of Genealogists
So it must be an entry in one of their card indexes
Thank you very much. Do you have any ideas how I would find out more about this please? I can see the same record on Geni but I’m not a member so can’t see the details.
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no - you would have to order the certificate from the GRO. (hence my telling you the column headings)
added - relates to the COLEY death
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no - you would have to order the certificate from the GRO. (hence my telling you the column headings)
added - relates to the COLEY death
Thank you. I didn’t know I would be able to order an Indian record from the GRO. I’ll have a look. Thank you
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Thank you very much. Do you have any ideas how I would find out more about this please? I can see the same record on Geni but I’m not a member so can’t see the details.
enquire from the Society of Genealogists. But they are in turmoil at the moment moving premises and updating their website. So you might have to wait awhile.
There isn't any indication of source on the card. other than the fact it is an M.I. So perhaps you should be googling "Monumental Inscriptions of Buxar" or something.
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no - you would have to order the certificate from the GRO. (hence my telling you the column headings)
added - relates to the COLEY death
Thank you. I didn’t know I would be able to order an Indian record from the GRO. I’ll have a look. Thank you
That is because it is British Armed Forces Record. so not Indian (technically)
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no - you would have to order the certificate from the GRO. (hence my telling you the column headings)
added - relates to the COLEY death
Thank you. I didn’t know I would be able to order an Indian record from the GRO. I’ll have a look. Thank you
That is because it is British Armed Forces Record. so not Indian (technically)
Thank you, that sounds promising.
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Hi,
Am trying to order a death certificate for Louis Coley, a British Armed Forces Record from 1928.
I can't work out how to do it on GRO....when I login and go to the normal place to search, that's only England and Wales records.
I go to their info about overseas records and it tells me they're all laid out differently etc but then says "For most records a GRO index reference is available, and an additional
administration search fee is payable where a GRO index reference is not provided in
your application and is publicly available."
But I can't find the GRO index reference for him.
I only have this:
Source: GRO Army Deaths via FindMyPast
Louis Coley - age 34 - Station: Adra. Year: 1928 and page 229.
There is nowhere to type the page number in; it wants the GRO index number.
Can anyone tell me how to do this / or find a GRO reference number for me to stop me wasting money?
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Have you read through
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/images/CG6_1.pdf
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Have you read through
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/images/CG6_1.pdf
Yes I have, going round in circles, that just points you back at GRO
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Someone else might know more.
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Using info given by mckha489, on GRO site click Place an Order [3rd down in menu on right], click Overseas, then Death, then Year 1928, Yes you know reference, enter name, put 229 in reference box then pay - worked for me [though I didn't pay.....]
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Using info given by mckha489, on GRO site click Place an Order, enter Overseas, then Death, then Year 1928, Yes you know reference, enter name, put 229 in reference box then pay - worked for me [though I didn't pay.....]
Ok, so you’re using the page number as the reference?
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Yes, that's all there is as reference and it works. I have ordered overseas army certificates before.
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Yes, that's all there is as reference and it works. I have ordered overseas army certificates before.
Thank you very much for your help
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Me again.
I've ordered the death cert from the GRO for him.
In the meantime, I've come forward a generation and would much appreciate help with finding the four children he had with Agnes Cristabel Coombs in India.
It's important to note that she re-married, in 1935, in India, to Anthony Horne and therefore she changed her surname - and those of her four children - to HORNE.
Specifically:
Eldest was Audrey Ellen Maud Coley born 1923. Her eldest nephew believes she never married and never had children but that she left India late 1940s/early 50s and settled at 64 Belgrave Road, Wansted in East London and then moved to Birch Hill, Bracknell, berkshire where she died around 2010.
Questions:
1) I've found a death record 2015 in Surrey for Audrey Horne on GRO but the timings don't fit too well with what her nephew recalls. Can anyone find a different death record?
2) Can anyone find a marriage record - just in case she did marry?
3) I've found an emigration record from Bombay to London in 1947 with Audry Horne but it states she was going to a hotel in St Andrews in Scotland. Bit strange as no connections with Scotland. And Bombay was miles from where they lived in India; all the others departed from Calcutta. Can anyone find anpther emigration record pls?
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Also: Barbara Louie Coley - changed surname to HORNE as well. She left India with her sister to go to Singapore. Met a Canadian - Mike KURDYLA. Lived in Montreal and had four kids.
I've found her travelling from Rangoon-London-Montreal (what a trip!) in 1949 and I know it's correct as she gave the address of another one of our relatives in the UK.
I cannot find her marriage on Ancestry, FindMyPast or KS. Can anyone help please? I do not know the location: could have been Singapore, Rangoon, Hong Kong, England or Canada. She looks to be travelling alone from Rangoon-Montreal: nobody called Kurdyla on board.
Kurdyla surname is correct as I remember sending Xmas cards to them in Canada 20 years ago. And have found her death in 1979 in Montreal. But cannot find the marriage - can anyone help pls?
PS - she had four children, probably living so won't name them.
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And finally, David Walden Coley. Surname changed to Horne as a boy but as a man he used COLEY.
b 17 Dec 1927, India.
Last seen as a teenager on a train to Bombay. Turned up 50 years later in England having tracked down his sisters (all of them - and him - now deceased) and said he had been in the army in India (probably British Army), got sent to prison for murder and disowned by the parents. Have no idea about whether this is correct but that's apparently what he said.
Died in England.
I have found his birth and death. That's all. Cannot find ANY record of him leaving India. And wondered if anyone could find a record of the murder - I don't have a newspaper subscription and nothing that I can see on FindMyPast, Ancestry, FS or google about it.
Many thanks for any help.
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Is anyone able to help with any of these please? Would be so grateful as am stuck.
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I think you'll find several people are working on these people but may not have anything to report just yet. It's been a hot day in many places too so gardening may have taken priority after all the rain :)
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I think you'll find several people are working on these people but may not have anything to report just yet. It's been a hot day in many places too so gardening may have taken priority after all the rain :)
Super, I hope so, that would be fab. Don't want to be impatient or demanding but it's frustrating to be stuck when one has the bit between one's teeth ;D
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I have found his birth and death. That's all. Cannot find ANY record of him leaving India. And wondered if anyone could find a record of the murder - I don't have a newspaper subscription and nothing that I can see on FindMyPast, Ancestry, FS or google about it.
Many thanks for any help.
Good luck with your search. I stopped by to mention that local libraries usually have membership of some genealogy websites including the British Newspaper archive in London and the facilities are offered free of charge to library members. My library gave me a plastic card with a membership number on it, which I use at home, so that I can gain free access to sites the library is a member of.
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I have found his birth and death. That's all. Cannot find ANY record of him leaving India. And wondered if anyone could find a record of the murder - I don't have a newspaper subscription and nothing that I can see on FindMyPast, Ancestry, FS or google about it.
Many thanks for any help.
Thank you, I'll look now at my local library for this
Good luck with your search. I stopped by to mention that local libraries usually have membership of some genealogy websites including the British Newspaper archive in London and the facilities are offered free of charge to library members. My library gave me a plastic card with a membership number on it, which I use at home, so that I can gain free access to sites the library is a member of.
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I have just joined rootschat after being told by my cousin that there was info regarding Robert Smith Coombs.
I have been told that my great grandmother was a Mary Smith Coombs born in India approx 1845 ish and that would make RSC my distant grandparent.
I have a cousin in Canada who’s maiden name is Coombs and is a direct descendant of RSC.
If you could send me any info you have I can forward it to Aileen nee Coombs and she may be able to contact you with any info you may have.
Look forward to hearing from you soon.
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Hi Nicdigby
I have been asked by my cousin to clarify a couple of points regarding Robert Smith Coombs. RSC was actually born in Woolwich and his father William occupation was a Waterman and not a Vicar.
Thanks
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Me again.
I've ordered the death cert from the GRO for him.
In the meantime, I've come forward a generation and would much appreciate help with finding the four children he had with Agnes Cristabel Coombs in India.
It's important to note that she re-married, in 1935, in India, to Anthony Horne and therefore she changed her surname - and those of her four children - to HORNE.
Specifically:
Eldest was Audrey Ellen Maud Coley born 1923. Her eldest nephew believes she never married and never had children but that she left India late 1940s/early 50s and settled at 64 Belgrave Road, Wansted in East London and then moved to Birch Hill, Bracknell, berkshire where she died around 2010.
Questions:
1) I've found a death record 2015 in Surrey for Audrey Horne on GRO but the timings don't fit too well with what her nephew recalls. Can anyone find a different death record?
2) Can anyone find a marriage record - just in case she did marry?
3) I've found an emigration record from Bombay to London in 1947 with Audry Horne but it states she was going to a hotel in St Andrews in Scotland. Bit strange as no connections with Scotland. And Bombay was miles from where they lived in India; all the others departed from Calcutta. Can anyone find anpther emigration record pls?
I as still stuck with this, can anyone help pls?
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And finally, David Walden Coley. Surname changed to Horne as a boy but as a man he used COLEY.
b 17 Dec 1927, India.
Last seen as a teenager on a train to Bombay. Turned up 50 years later in England having tracked down his sisters (all of them - and him - now deceased) and said he had been in the army in India (probably British Army), got sent to prison for murder and disowned by the parents. Have no idea about whether this is correct but that's apparently what he said.
Died in England.
I have found his birth and death. That's all. Cannot find ANY record of him leaving India. And wondered if anyone could find a record of the murder - I don't have a newspaper subscription and nothing that I can see on FindMyPast, Ancestry, FS or google about it.
Many thanks for any help.
I have found the living relative of the sibling Barbara so no longer need any help with her, but would be very grateful for help with David - the questions above. Still at a brick wall.
Many thanks
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Still following this fascinating story
Can someone do a summary of findings so far ..have you had. Any photo finds and DNA
And would anyone like indian stamos from the era
Im saving spares from inherited albums and will do a Time Travel DETECTIVE work shop specifically about indian relatives . eventually
Pm me for links
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Still following this fascinating story
Can someone do a summary of findings so far ..have you had. Any photo finds and DNA
And would anyone like indian stamos from the era
Im saving spares from inherited albums and will do a Time Travel DETECTIVE work shop specifically about indian relatives . eventually
Pm me for links
Thank you.
I've found Barbara's son and spoken to him so I'm sorted with her. He also confirmed that the sibling Audrey never married or had children so am sorted with her.
I am still stuck with David, can find NOTHING about him at all. There must be a tale to be told; disappeared in India, came back into the family life 55 years later, in England, saying he'd been in prison for murder in India while he was in the British Indian Army there. I suspect the story has been subject to Chinese Whispers changes - or has it?! Surely it would have been in some newspapers in India at least? I can find nothing but don't have subs to newspapers.com.
His sister Audrey never believed it was him who returned after a 55 year absence, but his other sisters did. Where did he go? Who did he murder, if that's even true?! Or was it an army accident he was blamed for but he wasn't convicted of murder?? How did he get back to England as there are no passenger ship records I can find and air travel would have been out of his means for decades.
Can anyone help?!
David Walden Coley. Surname changed to Horne as a boy but as a man he used COLEY.
b 17 Dec 1927, India. Gorakhpur or Poona, Bengal. Son of Louis Coley and Agnes Cristabel Ellen Coombs.
Went to Lawrence Military School, Sanawar, Simla Hills, India.
Then disappeared as a 16 year old on a train to Bombay.
Turned up in England mid 1990s I believe.
Died in England 2014.
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I've been looking Nic. Like you, I can see nothing at all.
added - but if he didn't turn up in England until the mid 1990s well, air-travel was well and truly an easy thing by then!! and there will be no passenger lists to look at now.
Speaking of my own families experiences. By 1971 it proved next to impossible for my grandfather to travel from the UK to NZ by ship. He had managed it in 1969, but 1971 he flew. And from then on all trips from NZ to UK or VV by our families were by air.
I realise you are speaking of India, but I imagine it was not dissimilar.
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I've also looked but have found nothing. That may not be surprising if he was in prison.
If he was in the British Indian Army there should be a service record somewhere.
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Using info given by mckha489, on GRO site click Place an Order [3rd down in menu on right], click Overseas, then Death, then Year 1928, Yes you know reference, enter name, put 229 in reference box then pay - worked for me [though I didn't pay.....]
Hi,
I ordered the death cert for Louis Coley exactly as per these instructions. It's just bounced back to me, saying that the GRO reference is incomplete and they've taken £3.50 for the privilege of looking :(. This is exactly what I didnt want to happen. Can anyone find me a GRO reference for his death please as I cannot find it.
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Oh really sorry about that, obviously bad advice from me though I am sure that's how I have ordered items with that sort of reference in the past. So sorry to have caused you unnecessary expense.
Maybe an email to GRO asking how you CAN order a certificate with that sort of reference?
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From the GRO army deaths index:
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From the GRO army deaths index:
Thanks Shaun, this is the record we found earlier and tried to apply with this info but there is no actual GRO reference on there.
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Deleted. Already covered
I think you should email them. Send the clip.
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The source is:
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Still following this fascinating story
Can someone do a summary of findings so far ..have you had. Any photo finds and DNA
And would anyone like indian stamos from the era
Im saving spares from inherited albums and will do a Time Travel DETECTIVE work shop specifically about indian relatives . eventually
Pm me for links
Following
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That typo copied in a couple of paragraphs should say stamps
Not stamos
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Apologies for resurrecting an old thread!
I believe an ancestor of mine, Mary Ann Bock, was a witness at the baptism of Frank Smith Coombs in 1859. She was the second wife of an indigo planter, Thomas Robertson Bock, who was in turn her third partner.
Nic, I was fascinated to read that you are in possession of diaries that are contemporary with Mary's life in Buxar as I have found very little record of her life in India and who she was.
Her previous partner had been John Gibbs, the commandant of Buxar Fort, who had died in 1847 She was not married to him but she and he had 3 'natural' children (I am descended from one of them - they all went to England for their education and never returned).
Shortly after, she then married the indigo planter Thomas Robertson Bock. He also died in 1859, leaving her his indigo factories in his will. However, Mary remained in India until her death 30 or so years later in 1890. I am very curious to know what her life was like there and her social standing. I get the impression she must have been quite a character to continue to live independently in India long after Thomas' death!
I would love to know if the Bock's were peers of the Coombs and if the diaries make any mention of John Gibbs, Thomas Bock, or Mary Ann Bock?
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There isn't any indication of source on the card. other than the fact it is an M.I. So perhaps you should be googling "Monumental Inscriptions of Buxar" or something.
I have also found the following monument inscription in the book, 'List of Old Inscriptions in Christian Burial Grounds in the Province of Bihar and Orissa' relating to Louisa Charlotte Coombs, but not that of her baby, Robert Smith. I don't think this adds any additional information, but confirms the records already shared earlier in the thread.
"Sacred / to the memory / of Louisa Charlotte Coombs / the / beloved Wife / of / R. S. Coombs, Esq., / Indigo Planter /who departed this life / on the 7th August 1841 / aged 35 years 3 months and 11 days / In sure and certain hope of a / joyful resurrection."
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I know there have been no posts for a long time. I only just came across this thread. Robert Smith Coombs is my Great-Great Grandfather! Though his son Charles. I have Mary Archer in my tree, but I don’t know the source. I suspect the Charles having an Indian mother is correct, as I have done an Ancestry DNA test, and do have Indian ancestry (16%, though I think through 2 grandparents), which seems consistent with an Indian ancestor around that generation.
Interested to know he kept diaries which still exist.