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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Davedrave on Saturday 10 July 21 09:35 BST (UK)
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There can be little doubt that John Hunt who married Sarah Tacy in St Nicholas, Leicester, in 1814, is the same John Hunt who married Rebecca Roscoe in Bolton-le-Willows, Lancashire, in 1824. There is nothing wrong with that other than that I haven’t found a burial for Sarah Hunt, and that John’s marital status in 1824 was apparently “bachelor”.
In 1851 John and Rebecca were in Jewry Wall Street, Leicester, and he was born in “Boulton, Lankashire” and Rebecca was born in Leicestershire. In fact John was baptised in St Nicholas, Leicester and Rebecca was almost certainly Rebecca Roscho, baptised in Bolton in 1793 or 1794 (age matches census).
Either there is a whole series of errors in the records, or something a bit suspicious. Given that John’s brother William had a record of abandoning his family to “vagabondize” all over the country, I’m suspicious. And John and William share the same grave, so obviously they were close.
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1841 - HO107/605/14 folio 44, page 19
John and Rebecca are in Leicester, and both born in County.
Just a thought - have you seen the actual parish register entry for the 1824 marriage? Reason for asking is that the 1814 marriage entry shows that John signed the register. I can only see the BT entry for the 1824 marriage.
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:) some thoughts .... assuming your theory is on track .... 8) ...
;D Could Sarah have been transported beyond the seas? If so marriage was ended when she embarked ....
;D Could Sarah have quit the marriage and was not known to be alive .... Seven year rule ...
:D have you looked for any children for John and Sarah ... if none, she may have quit and gone beyond the seas of her own accord or stayed local but joined a convent or retired to a nunnery
Outside the square thinking :)
JM
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1841 - HO107/605/14 folio 44, page 19
John and Rebecca are in Leicester, and both born in County.
Just a thought - have you seen the actual parish register entry for the 1824 marriage? Reason for asking is that the 1814 marriage entry shows that John signed the register. I can only see the BT entry for the 1824 marriage.
The 1841 Census is, I think, just wrong about born in county. I must admit that I haven’t seen the 1824 register original image, but was informed on here recently that it states “bachelor”. I think that the point about his not signing is either probably for benign reasons (sprained wrist etc) or could even add to my conspiracy theories. John’s brother William signed at John’s marriage in 1814, but not at his own in 1815. Maybe he’d hurt his hand or maybe an attack of nerves precluded writing (something he probably did very infrequently).
In 1841 John was a dyer in Jewry Wall Street, as you say. In 1826 he was in Thornton Lane, Leicester, a dyer. His father Thomas died in this street in 1830. In 1841 William Hunt was nearby with mother Esther (North Bond Street). In 1842 Esther Hunt died in Jewry Wall Street, widow of Thomas Hunt, dyer; informant John Hunt of Jewry Wall Street. There can be little doubt that John was the son of Thomas and Esther Hunt, baptised was in St Nicholas, Leicester, in 1792, and brother of William, a son of the same parents, who was baptised in the same church in 1790, and buried to the same grave in 1857 that John was subsequently buried in, in 1858.
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:) some thoughts .... assuming your theory is on track .... 8) ...
;D Could Sarah have been transported beyond the seas? If so marriage was ended when she embarked ....
;D Could Sarah have quit the marriage and was not known to be alive .... Seven year rule ...
:D have you looked for any children for John and Sarah ... if none, she may have quit and gone beyond the seas of her own accord or stayed local but joined a convent or retired to a nunnery
Outside the square thinking :)
JM
I think that some of your suggestions are distinct possibilities, especially the first. I hadn’t appreciated the existence of the seven year rule. I haven’t found any children yet, or transportation, and I doubt she got herself to a nunnery (but who knows :o )
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Previous post about John Hunt here
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=850570.0
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1810s, 1820s .... a clergyman says to you .... "sign here" ...you sign, but do you slow the ceremony by taking your time to read the document, or do you obey the clergy's command ....
1810s, 1820s .... a clergyman says to you ""make your mark here" ... so do you say " excuse me, but I can read and write, I want to sign my name, and I want to read what I am about to make my mark as a witness so dont rush me ... I am a slow reader" or do you obey the clergyman's command ...
JM
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FreeREG has a 24 Mar 1822 Burial for a Sarah Hunt age 32, abode Loughborough
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FreeREG has a 24 Mar 1822 Burial for a Sarah Hunt age 32, abode Loughborough
It’s possible, but I see that there are a few Sarah Hunts baptised around the right time in villages closer to Loughborough. OTOH there was a Sarah Tacy baptised there around the right time, as well as one of similar age baptised in John’s own parish of St Nicholas in Leicester. Two individuals named Sarah Tacy were married in St Nicholas in 1814, so maybe related, and possibly John’s bride was from the Loughborough area, and returned there for some reason. I still can’t see why he would be described as “bachelor”, unless just a clerical error.
Dave :)
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Amongst all the ‘what ifs’ …
Sarah may have left John.
She may have committed bigamy.
He may have been heartbroken and reverted to the life of a bachelor.
Were there any children for John and Sarah?
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Amongst all the ‘what ifs’ …
Sarah may have left John.
She may have committed bigamy.
He may have been heartbroken and reverted to the life of a bachelor.
Were there any children for John and Sarah?
Entirely possible. As for children, they may have had ten or twelve, but presumably didn’t have them baptised. And it’s likely that they were all victims of Black Annis, who lived just up the road ;D
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:) some thoughts .... assuming your theory is on track .... 8) ...
;D Could Sarah have been transported beyond the seas? If so marriage was ended when she embarked ....
;D Could Sarah have quit the marriage and was not known to be alive .... Seven year rule ...
:D have you looked for any children for John and Sarah ... if none, she may have quit and gone beyond the seas of her own accord or stayed local but joined a convent or retired to a nunnery
Outside the square thinking :)
JM
:) Re Transported under a sentence I have not yet found her in New South Wales 1814-1824, but still looking.
:) Re not known to be alive - please use RChats search option for the year of 1604 as the keyword... plenty of threads will give you the relevant wording to confirm the relevant statute law
:) If you cannot find any children, then possibly there were none born alive. Sarah may have died in child birth.
Bachelor on next marriage .... The information on parish registers can be 'fluiid" in the degree of accuracy. The clergy's first duty was not to foresee that 200 years later there would be questions to answer that were posed by people who are interested in family history. Clergy may have recorded 'bachelor' without even asking John HUNT. Clergy were supportive of marriage over criminal conversation. ::)
When looking for Sarah's possible death .... as a burial in a churchyard ... HUNT can be mis-transcribed ... M or W or F or TH for capital letter. . And the second letter could be any vowel and as for the final letters ... u or r or S or e or m or l and so HUNT could be indexed as Wail or as indecipherable ... or worse perhaps the burial register is not extant ...
So when looking for burial perhaps best to search for her first name Sarah rather than her surname. Also try Sally and Sara.
A bachelor was simply an adult male who had no wife and children with him in his domestic circumstances.
JM one finger typiste so edited to sort spelling and grammar.
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FreeREG has a 24 Mar 1822 Burial for a Sarah Hunt age 32, abode Loughborough
It’s possible, but I see that there are a few Sarah Hunts baptised around the right time in villages closer to Loughborough. OTOH there was a Sarah Tacy baptised there around the right time, as well as one of similar age baptised in John’s own parish of St Nicholas in Leicester. Two individuals named Sarah Tacy were married in St Nicholas in 1814, so maybe related, and possibly John’s bride was from the Loughborough area, and returned there for some reason. I still can’t see why he would be described as “bachelor”, unless just a clerical error.
Dave :)
1814
Sarah TACY married John HUNT on 17 January 1814, St Nicholas, Leicester.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NJ8W-R2Y
Sarah TACY married Samuel RUSSEL/L on 31 October 1814, St Nicholas, Leicester. https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QP4W-56HW
were there two lasses named Sarah TACY?
JM
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FreeREG has a 24 Mar 1822 Burial for a Sarah Hunt age 32, abode Loughborough
This burial is also on FindMyPast, the burial register clearly states the name and age, nice to see some neat writing for a change.
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FreeREG has a 24 Mar 1822 Burial for a Sarah Hunt age 32, abode Loughborough
It’s possible, but I see that there are a few Sarah Hunts baptised around the right time in villages closer to Loughborough. OTOH there was a Sarah Tacy baptised there around the right time, as well as one of similar age baptised in John’s own parish of St Nicholas in Leicester. Two individuals named Sarah Tacy were married in St Nicholas in 1814, so maybe related, and possibly John’s bride was from the Loughborough area, and returned there for some reason. I still can’t see why he would be described as “bachelor”, unless just a clerical error.
Dave :)
1814
Sarah TACY married John HUNT on 17 January 1814, St Nicholas, Leicester.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NJ8W-R2Y
Sarah TACY married Samuel RUSSEL/L on 31 October 1814, St Nicholas, Leicester. https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QP4W-56HW
were there two lasses named Sarah TACY?
JM
Yes, two Sarah Tacys, it seems, and baptised (different parents), 1786 and 1789 (off the top of my head), one baptised in St Nicholas, Leicester, and one in Loughborough. It seems highly likely that they were related in some way. John Hunt might have married either of them, and if he’d married the Loughborough Sarah it seems quite possible that she might have returned to her home town if her marriage didn’t work out, or maybe nothing of the sort. I suppose it’s possible that she could have died suddenly there on a visit to family, or gone home in decline due to illness, and died there, and been buried there.
Thanks for your pointers to avenues to explore.
As you say, parish records can be pretty unreliable, and I suppose that the “bachelor” status could be no more than mistake. I have a case of a marriage entry in the PR which gives entirely the wrong name for the bride, and if it weren’t for the existence of the licence, supported by baptism records of their children, and the wife’s burial, what mayhem that would cause!
BTW, is there any other way to type than with one finger? ;D
Dave :)
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Yes, when trained as Steno-typiste all eight fingers flew over qwerty on Imperial typewriter with short-hand notebook on left hand side. We did not look at keys, nor at the typed page coming together. In fact, one finger typing into dialogue box causes huge technical greycell issues .... for example : little fingers have decades of training on minding the peas and queues and one finger rule has cast all that exercise aside ...
Sorry for side track ;D ::)
JM
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Yes, when trained as Steno-typiste all eight fingers flew over qwerty on Imperial typewriter with short-hand notebook on left hand side. We did not look at keys, nor at the typed page coming together. In fact, one finger typing into dialogue box causes huge technical greycell issues .... for example : little fingers have decades of training on minding the peas and queues and one finger rule has cast all that exercise aside ...
Sorry for side track ;D ::)
JM
I did once teach myself to use several fingers (with help from my father, who typed from Morse code in the RAF during the war). But it didn’t last long, and I reverted to my right forefinger, always the butt of mickey taking at work. In my defence I’ll add that I have typed thousands of words this way. I’d like to be able to type, but even more, to play the the piano, but I must have a hand-eye coordination problem. So I settled on one-finger typing and slipping a CD into my player ;D