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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: Daffern2020 on Saturday 10 July 21 12:35 BST (UK)
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Hello everyone,
Child is Guillaume Sallaud. I think the fathers name is Bastien Sallaud and then I'm lost on the mother's. I think it's where it kind of looks like 'Saunders Jay', five lines down?
Hope someone can help.
Thanks for reading.
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I agree with Jay if the name further along is Joshua same first letter
It looks like Saunder but the capital S is unlike the S on Sallaud and other words. Not an F either
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I agree with Jay if the name further along is Joshua same first letter
It looks like Saunder but the capital S is unlike the S on Sallaud and other words. Not an F either
Good point about the letter 'S' there's look more like the number 8 when written.
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"d'Andrée Jay" or rather "d'andree Jay"
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Do you know the date?
I think the top line may say au Moi's du juin mil ....
In the month of June a thousand ...
In which case the d of du does look a lot like first letter of name but why are capital letters not used ? I'd expect D, Andrée
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Maybe la vingtieme jour....the 20th day
And the year ending in sept...7
Looks to me as if the words baptise. And bapteme. Are on same line
L & S very similar
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"d'Andrée Jay" or rather "d'andree Jay"
You know what I think that might be it. I remember seeing another entry somewhere else where Bastein Sallaud appears to be the godfather or just present and there was an 'Andre' after him. But I read that as a man's name. I didn't realise that's what the female alternative would look like. Thanks so much.
A quick qurstion: is the d' at the start a part of the name? Would I include it in the tree or is it more of a way to introduce the name?
And to those asking about the date. When I first found it I just put it down as the 20th of June 1637 as well.
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Yes D' is part of the name like 0' in Irish names
I can make out a possible six
But it it's hard to make out cent trente as hundred +thirty .
Full date should read mil.six cent trente sept
..was the date given on record reference and does it fit with people you are researching .?
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But it could also be of
Could the sentence before be something like natural and legitimate son of Bastian Sallaud and of Andree Jay
Fils. Naturelle et legitime...de Bastian Sallaud et. d , Andree Jay
That would explain why not capital D
First name Andree extra e for feminine then surname
could it actually be RAY ( my penfriends surname ! )
If they weren't married Bastian would have to legitimise is relationship
It would be useful to see other documents with same format to get idea of phrases used
Very interesting
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"d'Andrée Jay" or rather "d'andree Jay"
A quick qurstion: is the d' at the start a part of the name? Would I include it in the tree or is it more of a way to introduce the name?
It's not part of the name but "of" :... fils naturel et légitime DE Bastien Sallaud et d' = D(E) Andrée Jay...
Regarding capital letters, they seem to be used quite randomly at the time and in line 6 the godmother's first name has a capital letter - "Jehanne" - but her surname doesn't - "mallanson".
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As the child is legitimate, they must be married. "Naturel et légitime" is the usual terminology and the mother's maiden name is given which is also usual in parish records in France. Here women don't lose their maiden name on marriage : my British passport when I had one was in the name of Judith Gaillac née Dickinson and the French on in the name of Judith Dickinson épouse Gaillac, which always struck me as a bit odd - I felt it would have been more logicial the other way round.
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A bit of one of my previous posts doesn't seem to have made it to the board - no idea what I did for that to happen.
It was just to say that I think the date is 21st June "vingtungiesme" an old way of spelling "un" being "ung".
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Wonderful explanations Jayagee.
Now you tell spellings it's easier to read
I like the French system that woman maintains birth identity and husband is an appendage
Similar in Scotland women often use birth surname regardless of number of marriages or widowhood
The English use of "natural " born children as being of unmarried parents is rather horrible
I wonder if a French definition of unnatural child is the opposite .... !
How do you know jehanne mallenson is godmother? I don't see the word "Marraine". Or was it different terminology .?
I went to France every year from age of 13 to visit penfriend and we are still close to the family. would have celebrated our 60th birthday s together but for covid.
I'm an unofficial Marraine.to her neice
Also worked in France for 14 years so some of these expressions familiar to me
JAY. doesn't sound like a very French surname Andrea would be equivalent first name .
Jehanne is an old version of Jeanne
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Yes D' is part of the name like 0' in Irish names
I can make out a possible six
But it it's hard to make out cent trente as hundred +thirty .
Full date should read mil.six cent trente sept
..was the date given on record reference and does it fit with people you are researching .?
Yeah the date if fine, the next page is january 1638 and is written in actual numbers.
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I stupidly did not make a note on where the Bastien and Andree as the possible godparents one is and now I can't find it. I did however find this while seaching. References an Andree Jay and the child appears to be named after them. The Sallaud signature is not Bastien Sallaud's signature though. His has a capital B at the front. But it's confirmation that Andree Jay is an acutal name and could be the same woman. (5 lines down) I beleive this one is solved and I am going to go with Andree Jay. Thanks everyone.
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The English use of "natural " born children as being of unmarried parents is rather horrible
I wonder if a French definition of unnatural child is the opposite .... !
How do you know jehanne mallenson is godmother? I don't see the word "Marraine". Or was it different terminology .?
I've never seen "unnatural" but sometimes "bâtard"! Marraine is the second word on line 6 after "et" - I'm not sure how it is spelt here though the second letter is an "e". I have seen a lot of varieties over the years, "merrine" being quite a popular one. After that it says "honeste femme Jehanne mallanson".
I've been lucky enough to have a local paleography class here in France, but even so I find some of the other entry difficult to decipher. I can see that "marraine" is written "marine" though and "parrain" is"parin".
I agree Jay doesn't sound very French, but maybe it's common in the area.
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To see if the name Jay was to be found in France, I had a quick look at Généanet and found this which may be of interest:
https://gw.geneanet.org/jerome171?lang=fr&pz=monique&nz=caillaud&p=sebastien&n=sallaud
https://gw.geneanet.org/jerome171?lang=fr&pz=monique&nz=caillaud&m=N&v=sallaud
There is also Le Geais in Loire Atlantique department.
And Filae came up with 112,000+ references for "Jay" though a lot could be repeats!
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To see if the name Jay was to be found in France, I had a quick look at Généanet and found this which may be of interest:
https://gw.geneanet.org/jerome171?lang=fr&pz=monique&nz=caillaud&p=sebastien&n=sallaud
https://gw.geneanet.org/jerome171?lang=fr&pz=monique&nz=caillaud&m=N&v=sallaud
There is also Le Geais in Loire Atlantique department.
And Filae came up with 112,000+ references for "Jay" though a lot could be repeats!
Oh wow, thats very interesting thank you. Guillaume Sallaud - his child from the baptism would go on to name his second son Sebastien. I do wonder where they got the date reference to thier marriage. The pessines records for marriages do not go that far up?
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It says they were married in 1634 in Saintes, Charente-Maritime - that may be on line.
And here is what it says for the generation before:
https://gw.geneanet.org/jerome171?lang=fr&pz=monique&nz=caillaud&p=jehan&n=sallaud
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It says they were married in 1634 in Saintes, Charente-Maritime - that may be on line.
Good god I'm blind. Thanks, yes Saintes do have records that go back that far - I shall take a look.
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They have it in the form of tables - list of names. It is handily in alphabetical order and then in chronological order. But unfortunately I cannot see an entry for Sebastien Sallaud. I'll probably contact the tree owner from here.
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Wasn't sure whether to start a new post for this one. But it's a follow up on parent's names. This isn't the document I was trying to find earlier, just came across it.
I believe at the bottom is a reference to Andree Jay and Bastien Sallaud. The date - 28th November 1654.
The thing is I can't quite tell if it's a baptism or not. Maybe for a Marguerite and Andree ad Bastien godparents? This set of files is supposed to only be for baptisms from 1634-1669. The actual baptisms starting from 1634 are a couple more pages in with this being taken from page 1. I'm just not sure if it's a baptism or something else?
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It's difficult to read but I think it's only the last two lines that are relevant and say that Andrée Jay, Bastien Sallaud's wife, was buried "enterrée" on 22 November 1654. Unfortunately the important word is the most difficult to read because very faint. If I'm right that would imply that Bastien is still alive, otherwise it would say Andrée Jay is his widow.
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It's difficult to read but I think it's only the last two lines that are relevant and say that Andrée Jay, Bastien Sallaud's wife, was buried "enterrée" on 22 November 1654. Unfortunately the important word is the most difficult to read because very faint. If I'm right that would imply that Bastien is still alive, otherwise it would say Andrée Jay is his widow.
Thanks for responding. I think your right since normally they only mention the date once per entry. But it possibly being one of thier deaths is really exciting. This image might be more helpful, it includes the two entires underneath instead which I think have that same faint word. The one at the bottom does look a little like "enterrée".
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Yes, I agree, the entries below are burials. Also it's usually only burial entries that are as short as those.