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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: Laurette on Sunday 11 July 21 07:49 BST (UK)
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My ggrandfather William Roberts HILL was born on 11 May 1846 at 21 Hart Street, Liverpool. On his birth certificate (from the GRO) it states that his parents were John HILL (car driver) and Ann HILL formerly GREEN. I haven't been able to find a marriage for this couple. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find any further information on my ggrandfather in Lancashire at all.
At some stage he migrated to Brisbane, Queensland, Australia and married in 1886 and raised a family. On his marriage certificate he stated that his parents were John David HILL, coachman and Helen GREEN. He also added that he was 34yo which makes him born in 1852.
I did find a marriage for David HILL, a 25yo bachelor from Astley who was a jobber in a cotton mill, his father being John Hill, weaver. The bride was Ann Green, a 33yo spinster, of Astley who was a weaver, her father being Richard Heyes, weaver. The marriage took place on 4 Nov 1848 at Astley. This may or may not be William's parents.
I would appreciate any advice as to where to go from here as I can't find a Baptism, nor can I find him on any Census. I'm wondering if he could have been adopted, perhaps by family?
Regards, Laurette
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Does he continue to use his full name when in Australia.
David Hill and his wife Ann are in Astley in 1851 with no children
HO107/2204 Folio 226 Page 2
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In 1851 at 21 Hart Street Liverpool are
Elizabeth Aspindale? (Aspinall) 33
Hannah 9
Ambrose 3
Elizabeth 1
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Yes, he always used his full name except that he used William Robert and not William Roberts.
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I think that you may need to locate his entry into Australia. :-\
What Australian documents do you have that confirm his date and place of birth.
Is this his death
William Robert Hill
Age 66
Burial date 04 Jan 1917
Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
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I think that you may need to locate his entry into Australia. :-\
What Australian documents do you have that confirm his date and place of birth.
Is this his death
William Robert Hill
Age 66
Burial date 04 Jan 1917
Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
No middle name could this be his arrival
William Hill Age: 29
Ship Name: Romeo
Port of Departure: London, England
Port of Arrival: Brisbane
Arrival Date: 23 Oct 1875
Queensland, Australia, Passenger Lists, 1848-1912
William Hill Age: 29
Arrival Date: 23 Oct 1875
Arrival Place: Queensland, Australia
Ship: Romeo
Title: Assisted Immigration 1848 to 1912
Page number: 1018
QSA Item: 18477
Microfilm: Z1958
Queensland, Australia, Immigration Indexes, 1848-1972
What was his occupation?
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Thank you for your posts. William died 3 Jan 1917 and is buried with his son, William. He also had four daughters. He was a labourer. I also have the same passenger list but can't be certain if this is correct. His marriage certificate is the only Australian document I can find which states his age and place of birth and the names of his parents.
Thank you for advising me of who lived at 21 Hart Street, Liverpool in 1851. Unfortunately the names aren't familiar.
Regards, Laurette
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No middle name could this be his arrival
William Hill Age: 29
Ship Name: Romeo
Port of Departure: London, England
Port of Arrival: Brisbane
Arrival Date: 23 Oct 1875
Queensland, Australia, Passenger Lists, 1848-1912
William Hill Age: 29
Arrival Date: 23 Oct 1875
Arrival Place: Queensland, Australia
Ship: Romeo
Title: Assisted Immigration 1848 to 1912
Page number: 1018
QSA Item: 18477
Microfilm: Z1958
Queensland, Australia, Immigration Indexes, 1848-1972
What was his occupation?
That was a William and Ruth HILL both aged 29. No further information.
Debra :)
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Thanks Debra. I've chased this one up previously. Not the one, I'm afraid.
Regards, Laurette
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QLD BDM birth
GILBERT Mary 18/12/1872 parents Mary GILBERT
1873/M/680
GILBERT Mary Ellen 15/03/1874 parents Mary GILBERT
1874/B/17197
HILL Ann Jane 03/05/1876 parents Mary GILBERT / William Robert HILL
1876/B/20673
HILL Harriett 14/04/1879 parents Mary GILBERT
HILL Harriett 14/04/1879 parents Mary GILBERT / William Robert HILL
1879/B/24694
HILL Gertrude 12/06/1884 parents Mary GILBERT / William Robert HILL
1884/B/32496
Marriage
HILL William Robert x Mary CAMPBELL
10/07/1886
1886/B/10755
HILL William 15/03/1890 parents Mary CAMPBELL / William Robert HILL
1890/B/45466
Online trees at Ancestry, and Trove for BDM notices, have Mary Ellen, Jane, Harriett and Gertrude identified as children of William Robert HILL and Mary CAMPBELL.
Mary GILBERT would seem to be another Mary, who was not married to William Robert HILL.
What details are on the 1886 marriage certificate about origins of Mary CAMPBELL......what birthplace?
What details are on the 1874 birth certificate, Mary Ellen GILBERT, about origins of mother Mary GILBERT
William Robert HILL would seem to be in Brisbane by 1876.
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Does the marriage certificate give an exact place of birth for William, are there any other Australian documents that state his place or date of birth
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It's taken me many years of research to finally work out the relationships of this family, particularly Mary, the wife of Willam. The surname of Campbell is what she thought was her surname, when, in actual fact, it was Penman and the Campbells were her foster parents in Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Scotland. She was named as Mary Gilbert Penman.
Regards, Laurette
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Anything here............allowing to literacy, proofreading, etc.....HILL might end up as HALL?
Brisbane Courier 30 Dec 1884
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/3437609?
Three children named Mary Jane HALL, Robert HALL, and Ellen HALL, aged respectively 9, 7 and 3 1/2 years were brought before the court as neglected children. From the evidence given by the police it appears that the children were found living in a house of ill fame kept by their mother in Ann street.
Mr Day ordered that they should be forwarded to the orphanage.
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.. His marriage certificate is the only Australian document I can find which states his age and place of birth and the names of his parents."
What documents do you have for BDM events in the lives of the people named here so far?
A birth certificate for the HILL children, QLD, should record age, birthplace, for parents - William and Mary.
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I have all of their children's birth certificates and they all state that he was a labourer born in Liverpool, Lancashire and that she was born in Glasgow, Scotland.
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What had happened by 1886 to enable them to marry...and why did they not marry earlier?
For each birth certificate, can you give the place of birth and the name of the informant.
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I'm afraid I don't know why they didn't marry sooner. My guess would be that one of them had been married. I've researched the passenger lists for William and chased up any married couples of that age bracket, with no luck. Mind you, William could have disembarked at Melbourne or Sydney and made his way up to Brisbane. I don't fully understand the need to know where the children were born and who were the informants.
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Removed - not relevant (I think)
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.. His marriage certificate is the only Australian document I can find which states his age and place of birth and the names of his parents."
Does it say he was born in Liverpool
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Yes it does. 34yo bachelor, born Liverpool, Lancashire.
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Laurette, Have you thought of reviewing your assumption that you have the correct GRO birth certificate from 1846 - his age at marriage, and at death, give’s William’s year of birth at about 1852.
It is possible the ROBERTS (William’s second name) is the surname of his father, and that he was an illegitimate birth.
His mother may have married later to HILL, and so surnames were changed. William may not have arrived in Australia with the surname Hill.
HILL , GREEN and ROBERTS are all are rather common names to work with unfortunately.
There are a couple of births where no mother’s name is recorded that might be possible avenues of investigation:
ROBERTS, WILLIAM -
GRO Reference: 1851 D Quarter in LIVERPOOL Volume 20 Page 269
ROBERTS, WILLIAM -
GRO Reference: 1849 J Quarter in LIVERPOOL Volume 20 Page 379
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I have wondered about the name "Roberts" and thank you for this information. I'll do some research and will get back to you.
Thanks again.
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'Roberts' was the middle name of the child born in 1846, Laurette's ancestor used just 'Robert'.
Laurette, Have you thought of reviewing your assumption that you have the correct GRO birth certificate from 1846 - his age at marriage, and at death, give’s William’s year of birth at about 1852.
Names and occupations do not match either.
Debra :)
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I haven't had any luck with William Roberts so far.
I did look back into my records and found on the 1851 Census a William Hill living with his grandparents Charles Palmer SMITH and Ann SMITH at Chapel Croft, Oldham. William was 7yo, a scholar, born Liverpool. Charles was born in Liverpool and was a hatter. They were also on the 1841 Census. They married on 6 Sep 1819 at Liverpool and her name was Ann HILL born abt 1789 at Runcorn, Cheshire. On "England Marriages 1538-1973" it states that both were widowed, yet on the FreeReg records it states that she was a widow. So at the moment I'll try and find out more about her. He died before 1861 and she died before 1871.
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That William Hill in 1851 would be too old for the one born c1851 and living in Australia with middle name Robert.
I can't see why he would be giving his age as 34 when he married when he would have been a few years older and this younger age was carried on throughout his life. I don't know if you are aware but it was not the responsibility of the child's parents to register a birth this early in registration in the UK so not all births were registered.
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Going over his records, the birth of his daughters had him born c1848, his son c1852, and his marriage and death c1852. He was illiterate so I guess that could sum it up.
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It is also likely that he had no idea where he was born and just put Liverpool as being the first place he could remember living.
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Could well be Rosie, but I certainly hope not.