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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: tillypeg on Friday 23 July 21 18:26 BST (UK)
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Please can anyone help with this Scottish Testament from 1677 for Robert Leivingstoune. I have found these websites very useful but would welcome suggestions for the three words in italics and confirmation of my transcription:
https://www.scottishhandwriting.com
https://mudcat.org/scots/display_all.cfm
https://www.scan.org.uk/measures/index.asp
https://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/guides/agricultural-produce-and-livestock
An The ffirst the said defunct had of goods and geir pertaining to him And
Issobell Coburne his spouse viz Ane old meir pryce therof Tuintie Merks Item
ane naige xx lib Item ane staige xij lib Item ane oxe pryce xviij lib Item tu[o/a]
Kyne and ane cold noch stirk pryce of the haill xxvij lib Item of beir in
barne and barneyeard sevin bolls pryce of the boll with the fodder iij lib x s
meir = mare
naige = horse
staige = stallion
stirk = ox/heifer/young bullock
haill =whole
bier = barley
boll = standard measure of dry capacity
Why put twenty Merks for the value of the mare, but then express the other valuations in pounds and shillings?
Many thanks for looking,
Tillypeg
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Your transcription looks pretty good to me tillypeg.
The first word is more likely to be 'In' than 'An' I think. It's quite different to the capital A that follows 'viz'.
I'd agree with 'beir' - possibly a capital 'B' at the start rather than the lower case 'b' in 'boll' and 'barne'?
'Bolls of beir' are very commonplace items in these inventories.
Barley was one of the major crops grown at this time in Scotland.
It does look like 'cold noch' for the stirk, but can't find a reasonable meaning for that.
The last letter of 'noch' is certainly very similar to the 'h' in 'haill', and different to the 'k' in 'stirk'.
'noch' can evidently sometimes mean 'free' ?
You may like to add this site to your list:
Dictionaries of the Scots Language.
I've found it invaluable when doing testaments and sasines.
https://www.dsl.ac.uk
As to why they sometimes use Marks as well as pounds shillings and pence, it was just another set amount of money. A bit like using guineas I guess.
A Mark was 13 shillings and 4 pence.
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It is a variant on colpindach or colpnoch, a cow/ox of one or two years. It can be used by itself or, like here, in combination before another bovine word (here stirk).
Merks are useful in making certain calculations. 3 merks are £2 Scots (3/4d Sterling).
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It is a variant on colpindach or colpnoch, a cow/ox of one or two years. It can be used by itself or, like here, in combination before another bovine word (here stirk).
:)
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Wow, that's brilliant! Many thanks to you both, goldie61 and GR2, I am grateful for your knowledge :)
I'm the daughter of a farmer (long since) but a cow was just a cow to me.
I thought the Merk/Mark might be used alongside the pounds, just as guineas were used, so am glad of the confirmation.
Thank you for the dsl website. I had found it already and it seems very useful. I have struggled with the likes of jajvic, vmqle, abuilyements and domicealls but persevered and found their meanings.
I may return with more......!
Thanks,
Tillypeg
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jaj is just a form of m = 1000, so jajvic = 1600.
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I am still working on this transcription and would appreciate some more assistance.
snip 2
And I nominat And appoynt the said Mr Robert Leivingstoune And
Issobell Coburne my sone and spouse my onlie exers and universall intrors with my
goods and geir to use and dispose therupone at ther pleasure they alwyse satisfieing
my Laufull debts out of the first and of the samein And su[mm]a sealls up my Letter-
will In Testimonie wherof I have subscryved this my Letterwill
snip 3
What is the meaning of the word under Thomsone that looks like sicsubitur?
snip 4
Are the squiggles just fillers?
to the said Mr Robert Leivingstoune and
Issobell Coburne onlie exers Testamentars forsaid ? Reservand compt ?
Who being suorne [sworn?] maid faith ? And ffaud sufficient cautione ? As ane act maid
therupon Bears
snip 5
To that effect And the saids exers acts them ther airs and exers do
warrand foieth releive and skaithles keep ther said caur and his forsa..?
of his said cautionerie above writtin And of all coast skaith and dammage
he or his forsaids shall happin to sustain or incurr therthrow Wherupon
aither of them hinc? inde? asked acts sicsubscribitur James Penrey/Penney.
Many thanks in anticipation of help,
Tilly
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You have done very well.
In snip 2:
"exers" and "intrors" are abbreviations of executors and intromittors
What you have as an abbreviation of summa is actually sua = so
In snip 3:
It is an abbreviation of the Latin sic subscribitur = thus signed. You usually find this before a signature or transcription of one
In snip 4:
"to the saids" rather than "to the said". Scots tends to make it plural if it refers to more than one person
The squiggles are just fillers
suorne = sworn
What you have as "ffaud" is ffand = found. It is usual at this period (and it lingers on into the early 18th century) to put a small crescent mark over a u to distinguish it from an n. The writer here always does it
Snip 5:
The second line ends "forsaids"
"caur" is an abbreviation of cautioner
"coast" = cost
"skaith" means harm. "Skaithles" = free from harm
"aither" = either
"hinc inde" is correct. It is Latin for "on the one side and on the other". You get it in contracts between two sides
James's surname is Penney
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Many thanks GR2 for all your help and explanations. I am pleased to have been able to do most of it! It has been very interesting to look at some different websites and to read through this trying to use a Scottish accent, haha.
I will start on the Testament of Robert's widow next......
Thanks again,
Tilly
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Cautioner, pro' kayshoner, puts up a sum of money, to ensure a wedding takes place for example.
Skoosh.
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Thank you Skoosh for your additional comments.
Now I am having a go at transcribing the Testament of Robert’s widow Elizabeth Cockburn, or Issobell as she was named in his Testament. Her Testament Dative is dated the 26th November 1688.
I have managed to whittle down the number of snips from 9 to 4, mainly by searching this board and using some of the excellent websites suggested by the experts here. I have snipped them down to the bare minimum, as worried about copyright.
snip 1
Suma of the Inventar --- ? ? x L lib
Nae debt awand be the dead
To be divydit in tuo pairts deads
pairt is --------- iijxxx lib
snip 2
have repoint and putt him in/on? my s[ai]d fiscall his place
and office of exere dative as my dec[rei]t? of surrogant
snip 3
Compeirred personallie the sd Mr Rot Livingstoune
and produced? Inventar ?rme? made faith theron and
ffand Robert Kenedy of auchtifardell Cautione that
the goods and Geir ?@?rine [annual ?] shall be made furthcomand
to all pairties
snip 4
either of ym hinc inde rec?ve? asked
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In the first snip:
The deid's pairt is actually £70, written as iij = 3 then xx = score (20) then x = 10: 3x20+10 =70.
As the deid's pairt is a third of the total, the sum of the inventory will be £210, written as 2 c x.
In the second snip:
It is "in" and decreit is correct.
In the third snip;
Produced is correct and @wrine, which appears twice, is an abbreviation of abovewritten.
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Thank you once again GR2 for all your help with this transcription.
Any thoughts on snip 4, please? Here is the context of it.
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I will keep thinking, but nothing obvious comes to mind in Scots or Latin. It starts re... and is abbreviated. It doesn't affect the sense and the meaning would be the same without it. I will keep on thinking.
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Thank you, but please don't lose any sleep over it :)
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GR2 - this snip is from the Testament Dative of Alexander Levingston 1679 and the word after hinc inde looks like the mystery word from Robert's Testament, in a similar context. I wonder if it is rexive meaning respective?
The DSL website has this:
https://dsl.ac.uk/entry/dost/rexive
Tilly
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Thank you, but please don't lose any sleep over it :)
That certainly looks like it. I can go to sleep now :)
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;D