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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Derry (Londonderry) => Topic started by: Gladclark on Tuesday 27 July 21 21:57 BST (UK)
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Please can anyone help. Does anyone know of a Bristol Bridget Ryan's nee Saunders who housed a young girl in 68 colubms well in 1931 her name was Mary/Catherine Mullan. Any information would be wonderful thank you.
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Hi there and welcome, I'm finding it difficult to respond to your query, based on the amount of information you've provided... I'm just not sure what you already know... versus what information you are seeking.
Anyhow, picking up on the address you mentioned... the Londonderry Sentinel of March 1927 reported that a Robert 'Ryans' of 68 St. Columb's Wells, a Polisher and Honorary Secretary of the St. Columbus Old Oak Band, was applying to keep and use their Band Hall premises (in Walker's Place) for public dancing, concert, variety amusement or other public entertainments.
The Derry Journal of September 1932 reported that a Patrick Saunders of 68 St. Columb's Wells was one of three applicants for the transfer of a dance hall licence attached to premises at 24 Orchard Street.
Issues of the Derry Journal in Oct 1932 and September 1933 mention a Robert Ryan at 68 St. Columb's Wells.
Presumably this was Bridget Saunders in 1911?
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Londonderry/Londonderry_Urban__4_/St__Columb_s_Wells/603989/
I'm happy to find out more about Bridget's ancestry if that's what you need. Is that it..? Or is the query about Mary/Catherine Mullan?
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Bridget Ryans nee Saunders collected my Nan from an orphanage in 1931 Nazareth House Glasgow. The paperwork which is very limited states that she was her Aunt. We think we have found her Mom Mary Mullans in Scotland but we are finding next to nothing about her father as everything is unknown. What we do know is that Bridget stopped my nan from being adopted and taken to America around 1927 but left her in the orpanage until she was 13. My nan then moved to st columb wells with Bridget her husband. 3 children also lived at the house. My Nan was there for many years until she married and kept in touch over the years. She always asked Bridget who her parents were but was told she did not need to know.We are trying to find out the connection between Bridget Ryans and my nan and how she had the authority to block the adoption of my nan to her sister. if you are able to find out any information i would love to hear anything many thanks lisa.
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Bridget Ryan (parents- Robert & Bridget Ryan), born- Derry, residence-68 Saint Columbs Wells, aged 1 years 6 months, died 23 Nov 1923, buried 24 Nov 1923, plot M-D-741 Derry City Cemetery, proprietor- Bridget Dalby 68 Saint Columbs Wells.
Others in same plot-
- Joseph Saunders, parents- Daniel & Jane Saunders, born Derry, residence 68 St Columbs Wells, age 17 years, died 15 Mar 1917, buried 18 Mar 1917 [proprietor Bridget Daly 65 St Columb's Wells [65 may be mistranscribed 68]]
- Rosanne Saunders, parents- Danl & Jane Saunders, born Coolkeeragh Co.Donegal, residence 68 St. Columbs Wells, age 27 years, died 26 Dec 1917, buried 28 Dec 1917 [proprietor Bridget Dalbey 68 St.Columb Wells]
- Ellen Saunders, parents- John & Annie Diamond, born Derry, residence 54 St Columbs Wells, age 31 years, died 2 Apr 1919, buried 4 Apr 1919 [proprietor Bridget Walby 68 St Columbs Wells]
- Susan Martin, parents- William & Rosanne Murray, born Co Derry, residence 38 Nelson Street, age 32 years, died 3 Jun 1919, buried 5 Jun 1919 [proprietor Bridget Dalby 68 St Columbs Wells]
- Rose Anne Saunders, parents- John & Mary Struthers, born Derry, residence 109 St. Columbs Wells, age 4 months, died 24 May 1922, buried 25 May 1922 [proprietor Bridget Dalby 68 St. Columbs Wells]
https://www.derrystrabane.com/Subsites/Museums-and-Heritage/City-Cemetery-Records-Project
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- Mary Jane Saunders, parents Daniel & Jane Saunders, born Derry, residence- Quarry Street, age 1 years 3 months, died 11 Aug 1900, buried 13 Aug 1900, plot M-- Derry City Cemetery, Working Class [public grave?]
- Robert Saunders, parents- Daniel & Jane Saunders, born 7 Quarry Street, residence 7 Quarry Street, age 1 years 4 months, died 29 Mar 1902, buried 31 Mar 1902, plot M-- Derry City Cemetery, Working Class
- Ellen Saunders, parents- Daniel & Jane Saunders, born Paisley, residence 52 Saint Columbs Wells, age 14 years, died 31 Mar 1906, buried 2 Apr 1906, plot M-d-45 Derry City Cemetery, proprietor- Daniel Saunders 52 Saint Columbs Wells
- William Saunders, parents Daniel & Jane Saunders, born Clydebank, residence 62 St. Columbs Wells, age 20 years, died 19 Aug 1913, buried 21 Aug 1913, plot M-D-45 Derry City Cemetery, proprietor Daniel Saunders 52 St. Columbs Wells
- Daniel Saunders, parents Daniel & Jane Saunders, born Derry, residence 68 St. Columb's Wells, age 20 years, died 23 Jun 1915, buried 30 Jun 1915, plot M -D-45 Derry City Cemetery, proprietor Daniel Saunders 52 St. Columb's Wells
- Daniel Saunders, parents James and Bridget Saunders, born County Cavan, residence 68 St. Columb's Wells, aged 62 years, died 17 Mar 1928, buried 19 Mar 1928, plot M-D-45 Derry City Cemetery, proprietor Daniel Saunders 52 St. Columb's Wells
- Margaret Saunders, parents Daniel and Mary Saunders, born Derry, residence 21 Inishowen Gardens, age 10 days , died 28 Jan 1954, buried 29 Jan 1954, plot L-A-41 Derry City Cemetery, proprietor John Diamond 17 The Wells
- Baby Saunders, parents Daniel and Mary Saunders, born City and County Hospital, residence 21 Inishowen Gardens, Stillborn 29 Jan 1956, buried 30 Jan 1956, plot L-WC- Derry City Cemetery Public Ground Working Class Plot
- Baby Saunders, parents Daniel and Mary Saunders, born Derry, residence 21 Inishowen Gardens, Stillborn, buried 23 Aug 1957, plot L-WC- Derry City Cemetery Public Ground Working Class Plot
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Daniel Saunders (c1866 Co.Cavan-17 Mar.1928) m.(1884 Scot.) Jane Murray (c1865 Ire.-3 June 1912 at 68 The Wells)
1891 census- Inchinnan, Renfrew.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Londonderry/Londonderry_Urban__4_/St__Columb_s_Wells/603989/ (10 ch./6 liv.)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1912/05365/4496001.pdf
Jane Saunders William & Rosanne Murray Buncrana 68 St. Columbs Wells 47 years 03 Jun 1912 05 Jun 1912 M-d-45 Derry City Cemetery Daniel Saunders 52 St. Columbs Wells
1. Rosanne/Rose Saunders (1885 Coolkeeragh-26 Dec.1917 at 68 The Wells)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1885/02636/1972169.pdf (father- Glasgow)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1917/05202/4437603.pdf
2. Bridget Saunders (c1887) m.(1911) Walter Dally; ? m. Robert Ryan
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1911/09957/5620136.pdf
a. ? Bridget Ryan (1922 Derry-23 Nov.1923)
3. William Saunders (c1889 Clydebank-19 Aug.1913 at 62 The Wells) m.(1912) Ellen Diamond
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1912/09929/5609789.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1913/05327/4482710.pdf
4. Ellen/Helen Saunders (1891 Paisley-31 Mar.1906 at 52 The Wells)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1906/05562/4561415.pdf
5. Daniel Saunders (c1892 Derry/Scot.-23 June 1915)
6. John Saunders (1897 at 13 Fulton St.-aft.1911)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1894/02239/1843392.pdf
7. Susan Saunders (1897 at 36 Walker’s Pl.-18 Mar.1898 at 13 Fulton St.)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1897/02128/1808705.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1898/05840/4654069.pdf
8. Mary Jane Saunders (1899 at 7 Quarry St.-11 Aug.1900 at 7 Quarry St.), twin
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1899/02040/1781474.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1900/05753/4624865.pdf
9. Joseph Saunders (1899 at 7 Quarry St.-15 Mar.1917 at 68 The Wells), twin
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1899/02040/1781474.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1917/05223/4445424.pdf
10. Robert Saunders (1900 at 7 Quarry St.-29 Mar.1902)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1901/01965/1757855.pdf
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It was late last night so I stopped searching and posted but have found out a bit more this morning :)
Daniel Saunders (c1866 Co.Cavan-17 Mar.1928), son of James & Bridget, m.(c1884 Scot.) Jane Murray (c1865 Buncrana, Donegal-3 June 1912 at 68 The Wells), daughter of William & Rose
Derry Journal, 11 Sept.1885: DERRY RURAL PETTY SESSIONS. … Rose Murray and Jane Saunders, mother and daughter, summoned Peggy Jane and Kate and Elizabeth M‘Gonigle for assaults, committed upon complainants at …
1891 census- Inchinnan, Renfrew.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Londonderry/Londonderry_Urban__4_/St__Columb_s_Wells/603989/ (10 ch./6 liv.)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1912/05365/4496001.pdf
- Jane Saunders, parents William & Rosanne Murray, born Buncrana, 68 St. Columbs Wells, age 47 years, died 3 Jun 1912, buried 5 Jun 1912, plot M-d-45, proprietor Daniel Saunders 52 St. Columbs Wells
- Daniel Saunders, parents James and Bridget Saunders, born County Cavan, residence 68 St. Columb's Wells, aged 62 years, died 17 Mar 1928, buried 19 Mar 1928, plot M-D-45 Derry City Cemetery, proprietor Daniel Saunders 52 St. Columb's Wells
- Susan Martin, parents William & Rosanne Murray, born Co Derry, residence 38 Nelson Street, age 32 years, died 3 Jun 1919, buried 5 Jun 1919 [proprietor Bridget Dalby 68 St Columbs Wells] Sister of Jane (Murray) Saunders
2nd daughter-
Bridget Saunders (c1887-30 Dec.1945) m.(1911) Walter Dally; m. Robert Ryan (c1889-11 Apr.1939)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1911/09957/5620136.pdf
Note: can't find married of Bridget to Robert Ryan(s)
Derry Journal, 27 July 1928: Bridget Ryans, St. Columb’s Wells., had Joseph Diamond, 54, St. Columb’s Wells, summoned for threatening and abusive language. Defendant …
Derry Journal, 12 Apr.1939: RYAN- April 11th, 1939, at his residence, 68, St. Columbs Wells, Derry, Robert, dearly- beloved husband of Bridget Ryan.—RIP. Funeral on Friday … at 2.30 p.m., to City Cemetery. On his soul, Sweet Jesus, have mercy. Queen of the …
- Robert Ryan, parents Michael & Sarah Ryan, born Derry, 68 St. Columbs Wells, age 52, died 11 Apr.1939, buried 14 Apr.1939, plot M-C-499 proprietor William Murray 13 Fulton Place.
Londonderry Sentinel, 22 Oct.1940: … Bridget Ryans, St. Columb’s Wells …
- Bridget Ryan, parents Daniel & Jean Saunders, born Derry, 68 St. Columb’s Wells, age 54, died 30 Dec.1945, buried 1 Jan.1946, plot M-C-499 proprietor William Murray 13 Fulton St.
In same plot as Robert & Bridget is a later birth- likely connected: Gabrielle Clare Sheerin, parents Cyril & Sarah J. Sheerin, born Derry, 68 St. Columbs Walk, age 2 yrs 11 mo., died 9 Mar.1961, buried 11 Mar.1961, plot M-C-499 proprietor William Murray 13 Fulton Place
1. Bridget Ryan (1922 Derry-23 Nov.1923)
Bridget Ryan (parents- Robert & Bridget Ryan), born- Derry, residence-68 Saint Columbs Wells, aged 1 years 6 months, died 23 Nov 1923, buried 24 Nov 1923, plot M-D-741 Derry City Cemetery, proprietor- Bridget Dalby 68 Saint Columbs Wells.
2. Robert Ryan (1933-21 Apr.1934)
Robert Ryans, parents Robert & Bridget Ryans, born Derry, Nazareth House, aged 11 months, died 21 Apr.1934, buried 22 Apr.1934, plot L-NAZ (Nazareth House)
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3rd child-
William Saunders (c1889 Clydebank-19 Aug.1913 at 62 The Wells) m.(1912) Ellen Diamond (c1889-1919)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1912/09929/5609789.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1913/05327/4482710.pdf
Derry Journal, 20 Aug.1913: August 19, at his residence, 63, SI. Columb’s Wells, Derry, William Saunders, aged _ years.—R.I.P. His remains will be removed for interment In the City Cemetery morrow (Thursday), …
- William Saunders, parents Daniel & Jane Saunders, born Clydebank, residence 62 St. Columbs Wells, age 20 years, died 19 Aug 1913, buried 21 Aug 1913, plot M-D-45 Derry City Cemetery, proprietor Daniel Saunders 52 St. Columbs Wells
- Ellen Saunders, parents- John & Annie Diamond, born Derry, residence 54 St Columbs Wells, age 31 years, died 2 Apr 1919, buried 4 Apr 1919 [proprietor Bridget Walby 68 St Columbs Wells]
1. Daniel Saunders (1913)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1913/01441/1590003.pdf
Children of Daniel?
- Margaret Saunders, parents Daniel and Mary Saunders, born Derry, residence 21 Inishowen Gardens, age 10 days, died 28 Jan 1954, buried 29 Jan 1954, plot L-A-41 Derry City Cemetery, proprietor John Diamond 17 The Wells
- Baby Saunders, parents Daniel and Mary Saunders, born City and County Hospital, residence 21 Inishowen Gardens, Stillborn 29 Jan 1956, buried 30 Jan 1956, plot L-WC- Derry City Cemetery Public Ground Working Class Plot
- Baby Saunders, parents Daniel and Mary Saunders, born Derry, residence 21 Inishowen Gardens, Stillborn, buried 23 Aug 1957, plot L-WC- Derry City Cemetery Public Ground Working Class Plot
2. John Saunders (1916)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1916/01328/1548457.pdf (parents- John Saunders & Ellen Diamond)
Possibly illegitimate child of widowed Ellen (Diamond) Saunders?
5th child-
Daniel Saunders (c1892 Derry/Scot.-23 June 1915)
Londonderry Sentinel, 14 Sept.1907: … .This case was also adjourned in order that M‘Clinlock’s father might be summoned. Daniel Saunders, 53, St. Columb’s Wells, was next summoned for stone-throwing in Foylestreet. In reply to Head-Constable O’Donohue, …
Derry Journal, 26 May 1915: … Private Daniel Saunders, Scottish Rifles, of St. Columb’s Wells. Derry …
- Daniel Saunders, parents Daniel & Jane Saunders, born Derry, residence 68 St. Columb's Wells, age 20 years, died 23 Jun 1915, buried 30 Jun 1915, plot M -D-45 Derry City Cemetery, proprietor Daniel Saunders 52 St. Columb's Wells
Note: cannot find death registration- perhaps died outside area as a result of the War?
6th child-
John Saunders (1897 at 13 Fulton St.) m.(1914) Margaret Jane Quigley
Londonderry Sentinel, 14 Mar.1907: Acting-Sergeant George Taylor summoned John Saunders, a lad living at St. Columb’s wells, for stone-throwing Monday night in Foyle-street, and at later hour in Market street. The constable stated …
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1894/02239/1843392.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1914/09856/5579464.pdf (groom’s age incorrect)
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Bridget Ryans nee Saunders collected my Nan from an orphanage in 1931 Nazareth House Glasgow. The paperwork which is very limited states that she was her Aunt. We think we have found her Mom Mary Mullans in Scotland but we are finding next to nothing about her father as everything is unknown. What we do know is that Bridget stopped my nan from being adopted and taken to America around 1927 but left her in the orpanage until she was 13. My nan then moved to st columb wells with Bridget her husband. 3 children also lived at the house. My Nan was there for many years until she married and kept in touch over the years. She always asked Bridget who her parents were but was told she did not need to know.We are trying to find out the connection between Bridget Ryans and my nan and how she had the authority to block the adoption of my nan to her sister. if you are able to find out any information i would love to hear anything many thanks lisa.
If Bridget (Saunders) Ryan was Bridget's aunt then, in theory, there are only a few possibilities.
1) child was a daughter of one of Bridget's siblings. Most of them died at a fairly early age and only ones still alive c1917 (around the time child was born?)-
-Rosanne Saunders, died unmarried 26 Dec.1917 at 68 St. Columb's Wells
-John Saunders m.(1914) Margaret Jane Quigley
-Joseph Saunders, died unmarried 15 Mar.1917 at 68 St. Columb's Wells
2) child of sister/brother in law of Bridget's
-brother William's widow Ellen (Diamond) Saunders died 1919- she probably gave birth to John Saunders in 1916
3) child of Walter Dally's sibling (think he was English?)
4) child of Robert Ryan's sibling
... but of course it's not that simple...
Do you have date of birth for the child? name at birth?
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wow thank you so much for all your replies!
The child was born Catherine Gladys Clark Mullan 6/5/1918 in 251 vincent street glasgow. worked as domestic servant at 46 West bridgend, dumbarton. she was put in an orphanage in 1923 in Glasgow then Mrs Ryan collects her in 1931.
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The child was born Catherine Gladys Clark Mullan 6/5/1918 in 251 vincent street glasgow. worked as domestic servant at 46 West bridgend, dumbarton. she was put in an orphanage in 1923 in Glasgow then Mrs Ryan collects her in 1931.
The first thing that strikes me is that the child Catherine was born May 1918 but not put into the Glasgow orphanage until sometime in 1923. Wonder if her mother or some other relative looked after her those 4/5 years. Any sign of death or marriage for her mother around 1923?
I see 2 entries on Scotland People's births-
MULLAN CATHERINE GLADY 1918 644/10 188 Blythswood
MULLAN CATHERINE G CLA 1918 496/ 238 Dumbarton
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Co-incidence?
Marriage: MULLAN MARY & CLARKE JOHN 1920 644/10 309 Blythswood
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Have found a possible lead so off to check...
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we know her mother was called Mary Mullan she was working in dumbarton
thanks so much for helping
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The child was born Catherine Gladys Clark Mullan 6/5/1918 in 251 vincent street glasgow.
Just thought that you might be interested on finding out more details of where Mary Mullan gave birth to Catherine. See these old posts www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=301711.0 and www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=406060.0
Monica
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All of this may be a red herring but given that Mary Mullan gave birth to Catherine in Glasgow & Bridget (Saunders) Ryan of St. Colomb's Wells, Derry was supposed to be Catherine's aunt I started by looking for a Mary Mullan born Ireland in Scotland. Eventually what I did find was a Mary Josephine Mullan, born Port Glasgow, living with her family in St. Columb's Wells. Using vital & cemetery records the following the family was fairly straight-forward.
Philip Mullan (c1864 Derry-26 Aug.1946) m.(c1898) Cecilia Gallagher (c1879 Port Glasgow-7 July 1946)
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Londonderry/Londonderry_Urban_No__1/Glenbrook_Terrace/1530897/
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Londonderry/Londonderry_Urban__4_/St__Columb_s_Wells/603982/ (9 ch./5 liv.)
Cecelia Mullan, parents James & Mary Gallagher, born Derry, 56 St. Columb’s Wells, age 56, died 7 Jul 1946, buried 9 Jul 1946, plot N-B-1142 Miss May Mullan 56 St. Columb’s Wells
Philip Mullan, parents Philip & Mary Ann Mullan, born Derry, 56 St. Columb’s Wells, age 76, died 26 Aug 1946, buried 28 Aug 1946, plot N-B-1142 May Mullan 56 St. Columb’s Wells
1. ?Anna Frances Mullan (d.1952) m. John McEachern (d.1975)
a. Mary McEachern (c1922 Port Glasgow-1940)
Mary McEachem, parents John & Anna McEachem, born Port Glasgow, 56 St. Columbs Wells, age 18, died 26 Mar 1940, buried 28 Mar 1940, plot M-D-1915 Phillip Mullan 56 St. Columbs Wells
2. Mary Josephine Mullan (c1899 Port Glasgow-15 Sept.1958)
Mary J. Mullan, parents Philip & Cecilia Mullan, born Londonderry, 56 St. Columbs Wells, age 59, died 15 Sep 1958, buried 17 Sep 1958, plot N-B-1142 Mary Mullan 56 St. Columbs Wells
3. John Mullan (10 June 1901 at 3 Glenbrook Ter.-21 Sept.1905 at Pilot’s Row)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1901/01943/1751172.pdf (informant- Isabella Duddy 3 Creggan St.)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1905/05586/4569540.pdf (belladona poisoning accidental)
Londonderry Sentinel, 23 Sept.1905: … at seven o’clock in the morning the mother told her that the child was dead, but did not say what caused it. Dr. Joseph K. Mullan, who, with Dr. W. J. O’Doherty, made post-mortem examination of the body, stated was that a well nourished male child aged about three months…
Derry Journal, 25 Sept.1905: … compounded Mr. John Thompson, Qualified assistant at the city dispensary, who labelled the bottle in the usual way with both a poison and other label. also cautioned the messenger who came for the bottle, and this caution was conveyed Mrs. Mullan. After Mrs. Mullan was restored to health the bottle was put on a shell in her bedroom, and she thought more about it. Wednesday last she had occasion to leave her house to do some shopping, leaving the deceased boy charge of an elder sister…
4. James Mullan (1903 Port Glasgow-11 June 1904 at 31 Abbey St.)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1904/05628/4583202.pdf
James Mullan, parents Philip & C. Mullan, born Port-Glasgow, 41 Abbey St., age 7 months, died 11 Jun 1904, buried 13 Jun 1904, plot D-a-30 Cecela Gallagher Bishop Street
5. Margretta/Maggie Ellen Mullan (11 Mar.1905 at 6 Pilot’s Row-aft.1911)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1905/01795/1704212.pdf (informant- Sarah Jane Mullan 6 Pilot’s Row)
6. Philip Mullan (9 Sept.1906 at 6 Pilot’s Row-27 Oct.1906 at 6 Pilot’s Row)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1906/01730/1683717.pdf (informant- Sarah J. Mullan 55 Abbey St.)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1906/05547/4555984.pdf
Phillip Mullan, parents Phillip & Cecilia Mullan, born Pilots Row, 6 Pilots Row, age 7 weeks, died 27 Oct 1906, buried 28 Oct 1906, plot D-a-30 Cecilia Gallagher Bishop Street
7. Philip Mullan (26 Sept.1907 at 6 Pilot’s Row-26 July 1908 at 6 Templemore Pl.))
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1907/01677/1667016.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1908/05487/4536741.pdf
continued next post-
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8. Henry Joseph “Harry” Mullan (14 Nov.1908 at 6 Templemore Pl.-aft.1911)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1909/01624/1650343.pdf
9. Cecilia Mullan (22 July 1910 at 28 The Wells)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1910/01560/1629995.pdf (informant- Mary Tosh 26 The Wells)
10. Sarah Ellen Mullan (6 Nov.1912 at 63 The Wells-8 Dec.1912 at 63 The Wells)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1913/01462/1596795.pdf (informant- Catherine Deane 63 The Wells)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1913/05343/4488070.pdf
Sarah Mullan, parents Philip & Celia Mullan, born Derry, 63 St. Columbs Wells, age 1 months, died 8 Dec 1912, buried 9 Dec 1912, plot D-a-345/5 Patrick Shiels 23 The Rock
11. Norah Elizabeth Mullan (6 Nov.1912 at 63 The Wells-15 Feb.1913 at 105 Bogside)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1913/01462/1596795.pdf (informant- Catherine Deane 63 The Wells)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1913/05343/4488076.pdf
Norah Mullen, parents Philip & Celia Mullen, born Derry, 105 Bogside, age 3 months, died 15 Feb 1913, buried 17 Feb 1913, plot D-a-345/5 Patrick Shiels 23 The Rock
12. Philomena Mullan (15 Apr.1915 at 56 The Wells)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1915/01378/1567107.pdf (informant- Mary Mullan 56 The Wells)
Might not be the right Mary Mullan but keep this family in mind until you have found the correct one.
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Bridget Ryans nee Saunders collected my Nan from an orphanage in 1931 Nazareth House Glasgow. The paperwork which is very limited states that she was her Aunt. We think we have found her Mom Mary Mullans in Scotland but we are finding next to nothing about her father as everything is unknown. What we do know is that Bridget stopped my nan from being adopted and taken to America around 1927 but left her in the orpanage until she was 13. My nan then moved to st columb wells with Bridget her husband. 3 children also lived at the house. My Nan was there for many years until she married and kept in touch over the years. She always asked Bridget who her parents were but was told she did not need to know.We are trying to find out the connection between Bridget Ryans and my nan and how she had the authority to block the adoption of my nan to her sister. if you are able to find out any information i would love to hear anything many thanks lisa.
Lisa, could you expand a little on some of the points above please?
The paperwork which is very limited states that she was her Aunt - Any other details from her file that could help here?
We think we have found her Mom Mary Mullans in Scotland - have you found anything else for Mary Mullan other than Catherine's birth reg which gives her mother's name?
What we do know is that Bridget stopped my nan from being adopted and taken to America around 1927 but left her in the orpanage until she was 13 - How do you know about this and what info is there on this?
...and how she had the authority to block the adoption of my nan to her sister - Again what details are available on this? The ref to sister, is this in Catherine's notes? Who was the sister (to Bridget?)?
Catherine would have been 12-13 yrs old when she moved to Ireland to live with Bridget and her family. No other memories from her time in Glasgow that could help further here?
Monica
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My nans birth certificate states that her mother was Mary Mullan . She was born in St vincent street at the house owned by nurse mullan. She worked as a domestic servant at 46 West bridgend dumbarton.
I have found o a 1911 census that a bridget saunders of 63 columb wells was actually born in dumbarton...but just to complicate matters other census records state she was born in Ireland.
I have found a Mary Mullan born in dumbarton and died in 1923.she marries in 1922 then dies shortly after childbirth...is it a coincidence that this is when my nan was put in the orphanage. Her widower then marries her sister Catherine....there is a record of an adoption sealed until 2027....but they then leave for America but passenger records show no child with them? So is all this a coincidence i don't know?
Then looking at Bridgets brothers there is a John who marries in 1914 but then no records of children from their marriage....I also have found a John saunders living in dumbarton in 1915-1940 so is this the same man?? Also coincidentally John saunders moves house 3 times but on each census he is with a Thomas Mullan....the Mary I am looking at has an uncle Thomas is this him? Is this how she meets John???...after 1921 John and Thomas no longer share any addresses .....and in 1922 Mary marries before passing in 1923. Of course I can't prove I have the right Mary mullen the right John Saunders or Thomas Mullan!!! I have ordered a DNA test so really hoping that sheds some light. There are so many mullans and saunders its a mine field!! Thanks so much for all your help x
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My nan said that bridget stopped her from Going to a couple who wanted to take her to America but as you say why would did she have this authority? Unless John was the father and he stopped it?? The only thing we have from the orphanage id that Mrs Bridget ryans collects her niece in a clean and healthy state in 1931.....this is also the year bridgets Dad died....so did she collect her for home help? My nan told us how she had to take mr ryans to the blind centre and also how she would be taken to the coast with ryans children and left there to look after them for weeks on end? She also cooked and cleaned. Nan didn't mind at all she was just glad to be out of nazareth house.
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I have found o a 1911 census that a bridget saunders of 63 columb wells was actually born in dumbarton...but just to complicate matters other census records state she was born in Ireland.
1911 census says Bridget Saunders born Scotland not Dumbarton & 1901 says Co. Londonderry. Bridget was born c1887 & I haven’t found a birth registration in Ireland. This is this Scottish birth-
SAUNDERS BRIDGET 1886 501/ 546 Old or West Kilpatrick
I have found a Mary Mullan born in dumbarton and died in 1923.she marries in 1922 then dies shortly after childbirth...is it a coincidence that this is when my nan was put in the orphanage. Her widower then marries her sister Catherine....there is a record of an adoption sealed until 2027....but they then leave for America but passenger records show no child with them? So is all this a coincidence i don't know?
Married who? Sister Catherine? These are all important details that you should have mentioned earlier.
Then looking at Bridgets brothers there is a John who marries in 1914 but then no records of children from their marriage....I also have found a John saunders living in dumbarton in 1915-1940 so is this the same man?? Also coincidentally John saunders moves house 3 times but on each census he is with a Thomas Mullan....the Mary I am looking at has an uncle Thomas is this him? Is this how she meets John???...after 1921 John and Thomas no longer share any addresses .....and in 1922 Mary marries before passing in 1923. Of course I can't prove I have the right Mary mullen the right John Saunders or Thomas Mullan
Mary has an uncle Thomas Mullan? It sounds as though you have researched this Mary Mullan and have quite a bit more information on this Mullan family?
My nan said that bridget stopped her from Going to a couple who wanted to take her to America but as you say why would did she have this authority? Unless John was the father and he stopped it?? The only thing we have from the orphanage id that Mrs Bridget ryans collects her niece in a clean and healthy state in 1931.....this is also the year bridgets Dad died....so did she collect her for home help?
Bridget’s father Daniel Saunders died in 1928 not 1931.
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Let’s take another look at John Saunders. I think that for aunt Bridget (Saunders) Ryan to have some say and collect Catherine from the orphanage in Scotland that there must have been some acknowledgement that John Saunders was the child’s father (assuming for the moment that he is indeed Catherine’s father). Might there be Scottish records of maintenance?
We know that John was born 1897 in Derry and married in 1914 to Margaret Jane Quigley.
Now, in Derry Cemetery online records is this interesting record-
- Rose Anne Saunders, parents- John & Mary Struthers, born Derry, residence 109 St. Columbs Wells, age 4 months, died 24 May 1922, buried 25 May 1922 [proprietor Bridget Dalby 68 St. Columbs Wells]
Does this death fit with this marriage in Scotland?
SAUNDERS JOHN STRUTHERS MARY 1918 575/2 16 Scotstoun and Yoker
Death (Saunders with other name Struthers)- born c1884 (see below)
SAUNDERS MARY 75 1959 493/ 29 Bonhill and Renton
Now here’s another interesting record I’d mentioned earlier in anther context- John’s brother William Saunders married Ellen Diamond but William died in 1913. Could John Saunders & widowed sister-in-law have had a child in 1916? From a registration point of view it’s possible. Birth registered by mother and her surname was Saunders with maiden name Diamond so she could have said father was John Saunders and the registrar wouldn’t have suspected child was illegitimate.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1916/01328/1548457.pdf
So, if this all ALL the same John Saunders-
1897- born Derry
1914- married Margaret Jane Quigley
John only about 17- was marriage annulled, did Margaret die 1914-1918 or they simply parted?
1916- child of John Saunders & Ellen (Diamond) Saunders born Derry
Ellen died 1919 so what happened to this child? An online tree has William as John’s father (with no death date for William so it’s not clear if they know William couldn’t be the father)
1918- married (Scot.) Mary Struthers (born 1883 according to online tree with fits age of death- above)
Another online tree has this- 31/05/1918. Scotstoun/Yoker, Glasgow. Mary [Struthers] married John at 2 Scotstoun Place, Scotstoun. Sister Jane was a witness, Mary was working as a Domestic Servent, John as a Bricklayer.
1922- Rose Anne Saunders born cJan/Feb. & died May
When is the last record you've found for John Saunders?
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...I have found a Mary Mullan born in dumbarton and died in 1923.she marries in 1922 then dies shortly after childbirth...is it a coincidence that this is when my nan was put in the orphanage. Her widower then marries her sister Catherine....there is a record of an adoption sealed until 2027....but they then leave for America but passenger records show no child with them? So is all this a coincidence i don't know?
So, looking at this family, you have a Mary Mullan born in April 1901 to a Patrick Mullan and Margaret McKell (and variants). Just before her birth in Glasgow:
Patrick Mullen 25 Gen Lab b. Ireland
Maggie Mullen
Address 48 Elgin St, Glasgow/ Camlachie
There is a family tree for this line on Ancestry (includes photos for this Mary Mullan and others) for those with a subscription - www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/159006643/person/432080780999/facts
So, this Mary, as you mention, married in Glasgow in 1922 to a James Francis McPartlin. Mary dies the following year and James remarried her sister Catherine in 1927 in Glasgow. From the family tree, Catherine born in 1907 in Glasgow.
Catherine and James leave for the US in 1927. She returns to the UK and a further 1930 shipping manifest entry for her www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:24FF-PFP. Catherine died in the US in 1934 www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2WPP-F9X
Lisa, you could consider contacting this tree owner to check whether anyone on their side has done a DNA test to let you compare when you get yours done?
ADDED: When this Mary and sister Catherine married James Francis McPartlin, were they Roman Catholic marriages?
Monica
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Have you considered this other Mary Mullan in Dumbarton in your searches?
From 1901:
Edward Thomas Mullan 32 Shipyard Riveter b. Ireland
Catherine Mullan 26
Thomas Mullan 6
William Mullan 4
Mary Anna Mullan 2
Elizabeth Craig Mullan 8 months
Address: 33 Church Street, Dumbarton
There is also a family tree for this line on A/try www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/152580175/person/172071054917/facts
Mary Anna married a Michael Devine in 1929 in Dumbarton.The ceremony was RC.
Mary Anna died in Dumbarton in 1980, mother's maiden name Gallacher which matches with other records for her.
Again, you could consider contact with family tree owners to see whether they have done their DNA?
Monica
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A few more things pointing to potentially Mary Anna being mother to Catherine...
Her paternal grandparents were Bernard Mullan and Sarah Jane Marshall. The family had been living in Dumbarton for many years it seems. Sarah Jane died in 1913 at West Bridgend, Dumbarton. Husband Bernard also died at that address in 1920. This is the address you have for Mary Mullan on the 1918 birth cert of Catherine.
Also, you mentioned the VRs for John Saunders and Thomas Mullan and them showing as living together for a number of years. I think you will find that the address was multi occupancy rather than one dwelling.
The address they both show at between 1915-1921 is House No.23 Strathleven Place, Dumbarton. When Mary Anna married in 1929, she gave her address as Cherry Tree House, Strathleven Place. Her father showed as dying at this address (No. 73 Cherry Tree House) when he died in 1937.
Monica
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Don't like doing so many posts in a row....however, a breakthrough ;)
From the National Records of Scotland, we have:
Repository code 234
Repository National Records of Scotland
Reference SC65/7/1919/20
Title Mary Anna Mullen v William Clark
Dates 1919
Access status Open
Location Off site
Description Affiliation and aliment - male - 20 September 1919
Level Item
Closed until 01/01/2020
Previous numbers SC65/7/3
Departmental cipher A113/1919
https://catalogue.nrscotland.gov.uk/nrsonlinecatalogue/search.aspx
It is no longer a closed record. You should be able to order the document or view in person at the NRS in Edinburgh (don't know where you are based).
Whilst this is not Catherine's documents, I think given the name of mother and father's surname of Clark, it is likely relevant given Catherine's middle name of Clarke.
Does not link up or explain Aunt Bridget Ryan/Saunders :-\
Monica
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I did post this earlier (reply #10)-
I see 2 entries on Scotland People's births-
MULLAN CATHERINE GLADY 1918 644/10 188 Blythswood
MULLAN CATHERINE G CLA 1918 496/ 238 Dumbarton
Not sure if those 2 records might throw some light on anything.
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Dear Aghadowey, i finally got my DNA results and I was well off with my mary mullan. But we do have dna links to the diamonds so your theory of Bridget Saunders being the aunt through Ellen Saunders nee Diamond I think was spot on thank you for all the time and effort you gave. So the saunders ended up being related only through marriage and not blood so not possible the brothers of Bridget were her father after all, again thank you for all your efforts xx
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Hi my name is Conor Ryan my grandfather was William Ryan or Ryan’s we believe it could be he was adopted by Robert Ryan and Bridget Saunders when he was 11 months old from Nazareth house Derry could Gladclark or anyone with more information about 68 st columbs wells contact me please.