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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Cumberland => Topic started by: This Boy on Sunday 01 August 21 20:18 BST (UK)
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After literally decades of searching for any clue to discover who the father of my illegitimate great grandmother was, I have finally found him after several DNA tests for myself and other family members and a huge amount of work.
My great grandmother was Mary Jane Dalton b 2nd Feb 1867 Crosby on Eden. Her mother was Jane Dalton b 27th Sept 1844 also at Crosby on Eden. DNA analysis in conjunction with the trees of many shared matches and traditional work now tells me that Mary Jane's father was Richard Pattinson b 1844 at Kirkoswald, Cumberland. He was the son of Richard Pattinson (b. 1813 at Kirkoswald - d. 1897) and Ruth (pretty sure her maiden name was Brown) b 1821 at Kirkoswald to d. 1902.
Frisky Richard b 1844 appears to me to have been their first born. The 1841 census on Ancestry is almost impossible to read but according to some transcription/corrections Richard Pattinson and Ruth Brown? seem to be in Kirkoswald but living separately. How on earth anyone can deduce that from those feint records I will never know but if they are right I take my hat off to them. I suspect therefore that the marriage would have been at Kirkoswald between June 1841 and 1845. I cannot be 100% that the 1844 Penrith birth for Richard was my man (awaiting certificate) but I think it was. He was certainly baptised to Richard and Ruth on 22nd June 1845 at Kirkoswald so the likelihood is that the marriage was before then. The family went on to live in Renwick and are found on many census returns without too much difficulty.
I cannot find the marriage for Richard and Ruth in either civil registration nor parish records. I have searched on Ancestry but I no longer have Find my Past. I have also searched the British Newspaper Archive, Free BMD and Free reg without success. If no one can find the marriage can anyone suggest why not and perhaps what I can do to locate it?
I am also interested in anyone's views as to the likelihood of Ruth actually being Ruth Brown as I suspect and how to find who her parents and siblings were. If I can find her parents I can build a tree forwards for any siblings and perhaps do further DNA testing.
Many thanks in advance to anyone who can offer help or insight into these frustrating problems.
Neil.
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FreeBMD has a William Brown Pattinson birth reg 1854.
Unfortunately does not seem to be on GRO to confirm mothers maiden name ::)
Looking at 1851 Census
Children;
Richard
Catherine 5
Elizabeth 3
John under 6 mths
PATTINSON, JONATHAN mmn BROWN***
GRO Reference: 1850 D Quarter in PENRITH UNION Volume 25 Page 140
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PATTINSON, RICHARD mmn BROWN**
GRO Reference: 1844 J Quarter in PENRITH UNION Volume 25 Page 117
I cant see a Marriage either Neil.
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Thank you so much Trish. Ancestry was not showing me the mothers maiden name but when I saw your find I replicated it on the GRO search and confirmed that Richard's mother was in fact nee Brown. It also confirms that the certificate I have ordered is the correct one. Brilliant!
Still stumped re the marriage but really happy with that progress.
Thanks again Trish.
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For info. William Brown Pattinson is showing on the Gro Index with a mother's maiden name of Brown.... they have simply got the sex wrong as showing as female not male!
William
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Maybe the couple never did marry .
Other documents show them as husband and wife but could be common law wife .
I have a couple like this ...where the childrens baptisms clearly state parents NOT married but you wouldnt know from other evidence .
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I am happy I could help Neil.
Good work finding that reg Millmoor :)
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Re your initial post. They may have been quakers or other non-conformist religion. Kirkoswald had non-conformist chapels: i.e. Congregational (at Parkhead), Wesleyan plus three independent congregations. Quakers could meet at Sowerby or Penrith.
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Thank you everybody. All help and advice is really appreciated. Millmoor - great find William. Brididmac, I need to make sure I have checked every record I can find for clues. They had 11 children so I should have plenty to go at. Clearly, do you know where I would find such records to check?
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I don't know where you where you are based but the Cumbria Archive Centre, Carlisle holds the methodist and Quaker records. They currently have an enhanced enquiry service. The contact details, taken from their website are:
Lady Gillford's House
Petteril Bank Road
Carlisle
CA1 3AJ
Telephone: 01228 227284
Email: carlisle.archives@cumbria.gov.uk
Good Luck
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you said you had some of the childrens baptisms
so what religion were they ?
did you see actual documents ?any extra clues ?
also burials you might find if the couple were buried noted as married or not
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Thank you Bridigmac.
The baptisms were just skeleton facts from Ancestry without source information sadly.
I have now got Richard Pattinson's birth certificate from 1844 and it confirms his mother was Ruth Brown so that aspect of my query is well and truly resolved.
I think I need to look at the Carlisle archive for Kirkoswald parish records for the marriage of Richard and Ruth