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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: smckeag on Thursday 19 August 21 23:37 BST (UK)
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Hi everyone! I am so glad I found you and so hoping someone will be able to help me!
I started tracing my ancestry 2 years ago with the intent on finding out about my Hardy ancestry (my maiden name is Hardy). So far, I've learned a lot about everyone else who has married into the Hardy line but I am unable to go past 1780 (accurately).
My original assumption was that they were from Ireland and moved to Canada around 1830. But, it frustratingly seems, that at the same time as the Francis Hardy that I am looking for lived, THREE OTHER Francis Hardys lived in various parts of the world AT THE SAME TIME. Like, all their names are similar from their wives to their grand-children. There is a batch in Ireland, a batch in England, one in Australia and one in the US. The thing is, I can't link ANY of them to my family. I know there must be something that went wrong at some point, but all the information I have up until the Francis Hardy of 1780 is accurate in terms of physical certificates and verifiable proof.
Here is the accurate timeline as I have it right now:
Francis Hardy 1920 to 1986 - born and died in Ottawa, Ontario
He married Peggy Clare 1924 - 1970. She was born in England/Ireland and came to Canada when she was about 2 years old.
Francis's father was Henry Francis Archer Hardy - 1888 - 1956 - born and raised in Ottawa Canada.
He married Mae Adela Gavin 1890 - 1940. She was also born and raised in Ottawa.
Henry's father was Joshua Hardy - 1845 to 1905 (this has always seemed strange to me as everything I have found on all the Francis Hardy's, I have never seen Joshua as a name but Henry's birth certificate says "Joshua").
He married Charlotte Rowles from Russia. She was born in 1847 and died in 1808. She had moved to Canada as a child from Russia. Her father was English but left Russia as he was being forced into playing a spy for Britain.
Joshua's father is Francis Hardy (I call him Francis JR). I have no other information than that for his name. No middle name at all, anywhere. I have found many, many Francis Evan Hardy's on Ancestry and there is a few Evans' in the family line so, it fits. However, Joshua's brother, Robert, married an Evans and they had a child they named Francis Evans. So.....I dunno.
Francis was born in 1809 in Ireland and married Jane Armstrong (though the Armstrongs used to be a prominent family in Ireland, by the time it got to Jane, it looks like her and her family lived in workhouses so I can't trace that lineage as I thought I could) in Canada in 1836. Francis died in Canada in 1899. I have looked up passenger records to find when he arrived, but nothing comes up. However, Robert Armstrong (Jane's father) and his three brothers are recorded on one of the Peter Robinson ships in the 1820s.
Francis Jr's father was...Francis Hardy. According to some records like Census and so forth (I cannot find any birth records for any of Francis JR's siblings), it seems he was born in 1780 and his wife's name was Mary. Ancestry is insisting her name was Mary Troy but I can't find any verifiable documents to support this.
In the last two years, I have followed every line of every Francis Hardy I could think of and there is no way to link any of them to my family. I have changed his name to John, Thomas, William....none of them turn up anything.
And then, on top of that, I have THREE Marys who all married a Francis Hardy (Francis Hardy SR's father) in the SAME DECADE (1760, 1762, 1766) - all different last names. Mary Woolhouse, Mary Brunt, and Mary Gettliffe. None of them amount to anything.
I KNOW there is something wrong - somewhere along the way, there was a mistake made maybe by my data or something, because it just doesn't make sense and is increasingly infuriating! I've even tried tracing the Masseys in Virginia (since a large part of the Hardys is made up of Masseys) to see if I can find any of them who may have married a Hardy (since they all seemed to stick to the same families) but I can't find anything. Though, in my tree, I have a few Masseys with Hardy as a middle name, but can't quite figure out how to trace that to find the "original" Hardy.
If ANYONE out there can help me, I would very much appreciate it! I know I just threw out a lot of dates and names, but hopefully something in there pops out!
And PS: in case it helps any, the Virginia Masseys moved from Cheshire England in the 1600s, so it's possible that that Massey line and mind line up, but again, can't find the link. Still though, along the Virginia Massey line, I can't seem to find a Hardy.
HELP!!! ??? ???
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Welcome to Rootschat!
Wonder if you have checked newspapers? I was able to find where one of my kids’ ancestors originated in Scotland as on his son’s death notice, very short otherwise, mentioned he was born in Kilmarnock. That was the only place, in any record, that I found the reference to the town of origin.
You might just get lucky. Obituaries can turn up interesting and valuable info.
You can borrow newspaper microfilm from The National Library in Ottawa. When I lived near there I spent many happy hours trawling through the microfilm!
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Welcome from me as well.
Have you looked for Wills? They can often be very helpful in sorting out locations of families with similar names.
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Thanks for the replies!! I have checked all the obituaries I could find, as well as wills. Nothing.
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Welcome to Rootschat!
Wonder if you have checked newspapers? I was able to find where one of my kids’ ancestors originated in Scotland as on his son’s death notice, very short otherwise, mentioned he was born in Kilmarnock. That was the only place, in any record, that I found the reference to the town of origin.
You might just get lucky. Obituaries can turn up interesting and valuable info.
You can borrow newspaper microfilm from The National Library in Ottawa. When I lived near there I spent many happy hours trawling through the microfilm!
Thank you!! But I have tried this....the problem is that there are quite a few Hardys in Ireland and England...and Scotland so although I'm locating newspaper clippings, I'm unable to pinpoint anything :(
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You have:
- Francis Hardy (Jr.) born 1809 in Ireland, m. Jane Armstrong 1836 in Canada (edited to add: died 1899 in Canada); and
- Francis Hardy (Sr.) born 1780, m. Mary.
Have you found cemetery records for them?
Have you checked with church archives in Ottawa for any possible records pertaining to the family?
Regards,
Josephine
P.S. What do the census records say about their country of origin, year of immigration and religious denomination?
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Hold the presses! Where in Ottawa did they live? There's a big article in The Ottawa Citizen, 29 August 1938, about a big Hardy family reunion in Bowesville.
"On the site now occupied by Henry Hardy's modern brick residence stood the first homestead erected in 1830 by his grandfather, Francis Hardy, who came from Templemore, Tipperary, Ireland, with his wife and son, Francis Hardy, junior."
Is this your family?
Regards,
Josephine
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Good find, Josephine. Bowesville was located in the area where the Ottawa airport is now found. Still fairly rural, would have been farmland back in the day.
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The Ottawa Evening Journal
Sept. 28, 1899
"OLD RESIDENT DEAD. -- Mr. Francis Hardy, 88 years old, of Bowesville, died yesterday. The funeral is tomorrow."
Is this your Francis Jr.?
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http://www.huntclub-ottawacanada.com/history/42-text.htm
Article above mentions Francis Hardy.
The area is quite familiar to me, as I travelled Hunt Club road for several years due to work.
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Good find, Josephine. Bowesville was located in the area where the Ottawa airport is now found. Still fairly rural, would have been farmland back in the day.
Thank you, Diana. Fingers crossed!
Regards,
Josephine
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You have:
- Francis Hardy (Jr.) born 1809 in Ireland, m. Jane Armstrong 1836 in Canada (edited to add: died 1899 in Canada); and
- Francis Hardy (Sr.) born 1780, m. Mary.
Have you found cemetery records for them?
Have you checked with church archives in Ottawa for any possible records pertaining to the family?
Regards,
Josephine
P.S. What do the census records say about their country of origin, year of immigration and religious denomination?
Hi!
All Canadian Censuses say they are from Ireland and from the Church of Ireland. But that's it.
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http://www.huntclub-ottawacanada.com/history/42-text.htm
Article above mentions Francis Hardy.
The area is quite familiar to me, as I travelled Hunt Club road for several years due to work.
Hello!
Thank you for this....but I already found it haha I have everything and anything on the Hardys in Bowesville (even a book! LOL) - it's finding them in Ireland that I am struggling with. I've had some new information saying that Francis (senior) was married to Sarah Brown. But of course, I can't find anything on her either.
I am thinking that the Hardys went to Ireland from England as an English settler, and then one of them was in the military stationed in Templemore. But do you think I can find definitive proof of this? NO!!! LOL
But I so very much appreciate you taking the time to look for me! This has been a LONG journey - and it doesn't look like it's going to end any time soon! LOL Thank you!
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Hold the presses! Where in Ottawa did they live? There's a big article in The Ottawa Citizen, 29 August 1938, about a big Hardy family reunion in Bowesville.
"On the site now occupied by Henry Hardy's modern brick residence stood the first homestead erected in 1830 by his grandfather, Francis Hardy, who came from Templemore, Tipperary, Ireland, with his wife and son, Francis Hardy, junior."
Is this your family?
Regards,
Josephine
HAHAHA YES IT IS!! I found that article shortly after I posted on here - it was the FIRST thing I found that gave me a definite of where they came from but.....still....nothing in Ireland :(
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I am not sure now what you are trying to prove. It seems well documented that Francis Sr. Was from Templemore, including info. on his death record found on ANC.
Are you missing something in between?
Is it The Irish connection you are stuck on? Have you tried Protestant records? On his death record Francis is stated as Methodist.
Of course Irish records are not the easiest to find.
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Hold the presses! Where in Ottawa did they live? There's a big article in The Ottawa Citizen, 29 August 1938, about a big Hardy family reunion in Bowesville.
"On the site now occupied by Henry Hardy's modern brick residence stood the first homestead erected in 1830 by his grandfather, Francis Hardy, who came from Templemore, Tipperary, Ireland, with his wife and son, Francis Hardy, junior."
Is this your family?
Regards,
Josephine
HAHAHA YES IT IS!! I found that article shortly after I posted on here - it was the FIRST thing I found that gave me a definite of where they came from but.....still....nothing in Ireland :(
It might be a good idea to update your original post (with a notation to say that you've updated it). That way, people don't spend time looking for and posting stuff you've already got.
Regards,
Josephine
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Thought I might just mention DNA testing. It might sort something out for you.
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I am not sure now what you are trying to prove. It seems well documented that Francis Sr. Was from Templemore, including info. on his death record found on ANC.
Are you missing something in between?
Is it The Irish connection you are stuck on? Have you tried Protestant records? On his death record Francis is stated as Methodist.
Of course Irish records are not the easiest to find.
I apologize - I posted my question back in August and hadn't received any replies so I just kept plugging along figuring this post would get lost in the shuffle.
I'm stuck on getting past Francis Senior. I have gotten as far back as the 1400s with other family members and I want to continue with the Hardys for as long as I can but because I'm not able to find actual records for Francis Senior in Ireland, I can't link him to anyone. I have found many, many Francis Hardys in Ireland and England, but there is always a piece or two of information that doesn't match, so I hesitate to link them.
Essentially, what I'm looking for now is PROOF of Francis and Sarah (or Mary) in Ireland so I can find his parents and keep going down the line....
I have tried many, many protestant parish records, but since I don't know - for sure - which parish they were a part of, I can't know for sure if it's him or not. If there weren't so many Francis Hardys, I'd be able to confidently link one to my family, but there are SO MANY in Ireland and England in the 1700s. It's overwhelming and very discouraging.
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It might be a good idea to update your original post (with a notation to say that you've updated it). That way, people don't spend time looking for and posting stuff you've already got.
Regards,
Josephine
I apologize - I posted my question back in August and hadn't received any replies so I just kept plugging along figuring this post would get lost in the shuffle.
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Hold the presses! Where in Ottawa did they live? There's a big article in The Ottawa Citizen, 29 August 1938, about a big Hardy family reunion in Bowesville.
"On the site now occupied by Henry Hardy's modern brick residence stood the first homestead erected in 1830 by his grandfather, Francis Hardy, who came from Templemore, Tipperary, Ireland, with his wife and son, Francis Hardy, junior."
Is this your family?
Regards,
Josephine
HAHAHA YES IT IS!! I found that article shortly after I posted on here - it was the FIRST thing I found that gave me a definite of where they came from but.....still....nothing in Ireland :(
It might be a good idea to update your original post (with a notation to say that you've updated it). That way, people don't spend time looking for and posting stuff you've already got.
Regards,
Josephine
Gah!! How do I update my post?!
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Gah!! How do I update my post?!
At the top of your post, on the right hand side, you should see options to Quote and to Modify. Click on Modify.
I would suggest adding the new info at the top and also tell people where you've already looked in terms of the Irish resources.
Regards,
Josephine
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It might be a good idea to update your original post (with a notation to say that you've updated it). That way, people don't spend time looking for and posting stuff you've already got.
Regards,
Josephine
I apologize - I posted my question back in August and hadn't received any replies so I just kept plugging along figuring this post would get lost in the shuffle.
I understand. It takes a while to get used to the collaborative nature of Rootchatters. We've all been helped and so we all try to help when we can. You need us to spend our time as productively as possible for your own sake and we can only do that when you share the right type of information (I'm using "you" in the general sense).
Regards,
Josephine
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Gah!! How do I update my post?!
At the top of your post, on the right hand side, you should see options to Quote and to Modify. Click on Modify.
I would suggest adding the new info at the top and also tell people where you've already looked in terms of the Irish resources.
Regards,
Josephine
Thank you! But I don't seem to have a "modify" button - just a "quote" button. Given that I posted this months ago, it could be that I accidentally have two different accounts...? So I am going to close this topic (if I can - if not, I will delete it) and re-post :)
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Thank you! But I don't seem to have a "modify" button - just a "quote" button. Given that I posted this months ago, it could be that I accidentally have two different accounts...? So I am going to close this topic (if I can - if not, I will delete it) and re-post :)
Perhaps if you use the "Notify Moderator" button, s/he may be able to advise you. Now that you know where in Ireland they came from, it might make more sense to have the topic moved to the location-specific forum.
Regards,
Josephine
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Hi everyone!
I posted something back in August that didn't seem to get a lot of attention but in the past few days, I've had a lot of replies. However, since it's been so long, I have found a lot of the answers. Since - for some reason - I can't seem to "modify" my original post, I am creating a new one to include the new information I have, with the original post below.
Since I first posted, I have found LOADS of information on the Hardy family in Bowesville, Ontario (Bowesville no longer exists - all the land was expropriated by the government in 1951 and is now the home of the YOW Airport).
From newspapers, I was able to find an article from the 1980s about a Hardy family reunion. At the end of the article, it talked about Francis Hardy - a pioneer of Bowesville - who left Ireland on May 4th, 1830 and arrived at the Quebec Port on June 6th, 1830. Still looking for passenger lists for this.
However, I eventually found a book called "Bowesville: A Place to Remember." Now, this book gave me A LOT of valuable information but also gave me more questions. For instance, it states that Francis Sr's wife was named Sarah Brown (not Mary Troy). So although Ancestry is insisting that his mother was Mary Troy, this book says her name was Sarah Brown.
All censuses in Canada from 1851 to 1899 (when Francis Jr. died) state that he was from Ireland, was a farmer, and the records either say he was Methodist (which wasn't an established religion in Ireland until shortly before they left) or the Church of Ireland. This means that they were protestant - which also means THOUSANDS of parishes and records.
Someone in my original post asked "what are you trying to find now then?" So here is it:
I am about 90% sure that my Hardy family is connected to the Le Hardys from England. I have done a reverse trace (starting with Thomas Le Hardy, 1666, and working my way down), but once I get to John Hardy, born 1704/1705 (who married Anne Bowler), I get stuck again.
From my father up to Francis Hardy Junior, I have a plethora of information - more than I ever thought I'd find. And after 1705, I have quite a lot of information on the Le Hardys. But in between Francis Junior and John/Anne Hardy, there are TWO Francis Hardys. One I assume to have been born around 1780 (and who married either Mary Troy or Sarah Brown - or both!) and another Francis Hardy (though, I have no proof that this was his name) which I would assume to have been born around 1740-1750.
To clarify, this is what my tree currently looks like:
1809: Francis Hardy Junior, married Jane Armstrong in 1836 and had a bunch of kids. His parents were (apparently) Francis Hardy and Sarah Brown.
1780ish: Francis Hardy (and Sarah Brown). I have no death records for them - if they had passed away before 1840(ish) they would have been buried in the Freeman Cemetery in Bowesville, which was dug up after expropriation and moved to Pinecrest Cemetery. However, there is no Sarah Hardy/Brown/Francis Hardy listed here (Francis Hardy, 1809 - 1899, however, IS there). So this portion of the family is not complete. I also have evidence that Francis Hardy Sr’s other children came shortly after him: Robert to Hull, Quebec, William to Ogdensburg, and Elizabeth who stayed in Ireland. But again – no proof and no birth records to find parents.
1741ish: Francis Hardy – this one is an empty hole; no wife, no children, no birth place....nothing. There are just so many Francis Hardys who married and had children in Ireland/England around this time. For instance, between 1760 and 1765, there are 4 possible marriage records for Francis Hardy: Mary Gettliffe, Mary Brunt, Mary Woolhouse, and an Elizabeth (no last name).
So far, it seems that the Francis (1787) who had Mary Gettliffe as a mother married first a woman named Elizabeth and second woman named Eliza - and this family is mostly located in America.......and THIS seems to be my biggest hurtle. In America, there is a Hardy line with names very similar to mine, living around the same time. But everything I read says my Hardys came from Ireland. This has been the hardest part. If you look up Francis Hardy on Ancestry.ca with 1780 as the date and Ireland as the location, see how many Francis Hardys you get with very close birth dates - it's nearly impossible to figure out which one is which!
All that to say, I have two goals:
1. Figure out which Francis Hardy is which by finding PROOF of their linkage (for both Francis 1780 and Francis 1740)
2. Get past those two Francises so that I can continue my line for as far back as it will go. As I said, I am almost certain that we are related to the Le Hardy line, but that is just an educated guess. I could be wrong. And I don't want to be. I want to know my Hardy line; the Masseys, Armstrongs, Carews...they're all fine and dandy - and VERY interesting - but Hardy is my last name and I want to be able to find them and know where I came from.
Thank you all for your help so far! I very much appreciate it!
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A person can only modify their own post within a short time period (24 hours?) which is why smckeag doesn't see a modify button.
New thread here- https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=854162.msg7222524#msg7222524
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All censuses in Canada from 1851 to 1899 (when Francis Jr. died) state that he was from Ireland, was a farmer, and the records either say he was Methodist (which wasn't an established religion in Ireland until shortly before they left) or the Church of Ireland. This means that they were protestant - which also means THOUSANDS of parishes and records.
Given that the newspaper article said that Francis Sr., his wife, and their son Francis Jr. came from
Templemore, Tipperary, Ireland, shouldn't that reduce the number of parishes for you to start searching in?
Regards,
Josephine
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All censuses in Canada from 1851 to 1899 (when Francis Jr. died) state that he was from Ireland, was a farmer, and the records either say he was Methodist (which wasn't an established religion in Ireland until shortly before they left) or the Church of Ireland. This means that they were protestant - which also means THOUSANDS of parishes and records.
Given that the newspaper article said that Francis Sr., his wife, and their son Francis Jr. came from
Templemore, Tipperary, Ireland, shouldn't that reduce the number of parishes for you to start searching in?
Regards,
Josephine
You would think so!! But no. There is a WHOLE complicated history with English and Irish, not to mention so many records were burned in the fire. I am currently sitting down and going Parish by Parish for all of Tipperary. Ireland is a scary place (records-wise) and I hope you never have to go down there! LOL