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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: BlueSky38 on Thursday 26 August 21 00:49 BST (UK)

Title: Footman or Coachman to Queen Victoria
Post by: BlueSky38 on Thursday 26 August 21 00:49 BST (UK)
My MIL tells me that one of her grandfathers was either a footman or a coachman for the Queen of England.  She identified two men -  father and son- who she suspected could be the person.   One is George Christmas Wood b. 1842 Lydd, England.  His census records list him as a farmer and grocer.  So it's not him.

His son George Arthur Wood b. 1869 in England is listed on the 1891 census as being a "coachsmith" in Canterbury, Kent, England. By 1901 he lived in Ontario, Canada.   I can't find any records that he actually served the Queen. 

Can anyone give me advice about this?
Thank you!
Title: Re: Footman or Coachman to Queen Victoria
Post by: ShaunJ on Thursday 26 August 21 10:00 BST (UK)
FindMyPast has the Royal Household employment records - that might be a good place to start.
Title: Re: Footman or Coachman to Queen Victoria
Post by: maddys52 on Thursday 26 August 21 10:50 BST (UK)
George Arthur WOOD married Elizabeth Annie BREEDS in Ashford, 25 March 1893 (His father  - George Christmas WOOD, grocer).

They are in the 1901 census in Hammersmith and he is a "Warder HM Prison" (with 5yr old son Richard C - presumably Richard Christmas birth reg Mar qtr 1896 Canterbury 2a/813 - mother's maiden name BREEDS).
RG13/43 pg5

So he did work for Her Majesty, just not in her household.  ;D

Modified:
Welcome to RootsChat!
Title: Re: Footman or Coachman to Queen Victoria
Post by: Girl Guide on Thursday 26 August 21 10:56 BST (UK)
Welcome to Rootshat  :D

I've had a look at the record Shaun mentioned but the George Woods mentioned are after your George went to Canada.

A description of coachsmith

A coachsmith was a smith who forged by hand or under a power hammer the iron work used in the building of railway or tramway coaches, carts etc.' repaired, cleaned and tempered coach springs etc.

A coach maker, aka body builder, body maker, built up by hand the wooden parts,e.g. framework, lining, floors, mouldings, of the bodies of coaches, carriages, railway carriages, tramcars etc.

It doesn't sound like George had anything to do with the royal household judging by George's occupation in the 1901 census that maddy found.
Title: Re: Footman or Coachman to Queen Victoria
Post by: ShaunJ on Thursday 26 August 21 11:10 BST (UK)
According to his obituary in the Whitstable Times of 13 October 1906, George Christmas Wood was an inspector at Messrs F Finn and Sons' grocery establishments in Canterbury, where he had worked for 25 years.

https://search.findmypast.co.uk/bna/viewarticle?id=bl%2f0000338%2f19061013%2f161&stringtohighlight=george%20christmas%20wood
Title: Re: Footman or Coachman to Queen Victoria
Post by: GrahamSimons on Thursday 26 August 21 14:49 BST (UK)
The archivists at Windsor Castle are helpful - even when they draw a blank!
Title: Re: Footman or Coachman to Queen Victoria
Post by: BlueSky38 on Thursday 26 August 21 17:28 BST (UK)
My George Arthur Wood married Louisa Jane Langley sometime between 1891 and 1901.  The 1891 census shows him as a "Coachsmith".  He emigrated to Canada around 1886/7 when he was about 18. In 1901 he was in Hamilton City, Ontario, Canada married to Louisa and his occupation was a "coachman". 

I ran across some of the Royal Household records awhile back, but I don't think I found anything on him.  I will look again to be thorough. 

The fact that he moved out of the country at age 18 suggests that he wouldn't have had much time to
work as a coachman. 

I just called my MIL and she tells me she is pretty sure she was told the ancestor was a footman to the queen.  The reason my MIL believes that her ancestor worked for the queen is that there is a pair of ceramic "royal doulton" figurines passed through her family. Her mother said they came from my MIL's grandmother.  George A Wood is that woman's father.

George did have a brother named Richard born in 1873 in Lydd, Kent, UK.  His sister Kate was born about 1870 and that's all the siblings he has as far as I know.   I don't have any info on Richard, so perhaps he was the footman and the figurines didn't pass through his line.

My MIL described the figurines: the man was in britches and a white wig, the woman had a fancy dress with a bustle and there might have been a dog.  These figurines are in the possession of her sister, she doesn't have a photo of them, and she says that for all she knows her mom made up the story about the footman!   :o

So I think maybe my next line of attack is to find out about the brother Richard.

Thank you for all of your replies!
I have been an avid family historian for a few years and wish I had found this forum earlier!



Title: Re: Footman or Coachman to Queen Victoria
Post by: Dundee on Thursday 26 August 21 18:57 BST (UK)

His son George Arthur Wood b. 1869 in England is listed on the 1891 census as being a "coachsmith" in Canterbury, Kent, England. By 1901 he lived in Ontario, Canada. 

They are in Bedfordshire, England in 1911, are you sure you have the right George Arthur WOOD?

Debra  :)
Title: Re: Footman or Coachman to Queen Victoria
Post by: Dundee on Thursday 26 August 21 19:26 BST (UK)
Your George was already in Hamilton, Ontario by 1891.

https://central.bac-lac.gc.ca/.item/?app=Census1891&op=img&id=30953_148143-00737

Debra  :)
Title: Re: Footman or Coachman to Queen Victoria
Post by: tonepad on Thursday 26 August 21 19:59 BST (UK)
Doulton & Co became Royal Doulton in 1902, when a royal warrant was given.
Queen Victoria died in 1901.


Tony
Title: Re: Footman or Coachman to Queen Victoria
Post by: Girl Guide on Thursday 26 August 21 21:08 BST (UK)
Is this George Arthur's birth?

WOOD, GEORGE  ARTHUR     SMITH 
GRO Reference: 1868  M Quarter in BROMLEY UNION  Volume 02A  Page 335

Parents marriage?

Marriages Sep 1866   
SMITH    Mary M        Romney M.    2a   1361   
Wood    George C        Romney M.    2a   1361

1871 census

Living at New Inn, Lydd, Romney Marsh, Kent
George born Lydd, wife Mary M, children George A and Kate

Registration district Romney Marsh
Piece number 1022
Folio 9
Page 11

George's occupation is a ??  keeper.  I can't make out the first word, it appears to be a contraction of a longer word.
Title: Re: Footman or Coachman to Queen Victoria
Post by: Girl Guide on Thursday 26 August 21 21:16 BST (UK)
George and Mary's marriage at parish church of Lydd

George's residence is Bromley, Mary's is Lydd.

23rd July 1866 George Christmas Wood to Mary Matilda Smith, both single.
George's occupation is Grocer, his father is Richard a farmer
Mary's father is Edward William a fisherman

Witnesses appear to be Mary Ann Wood and Richard? Austin Smith
Title: Re: Footman or Coachman to Queen Victoria
Post by: heywood on Thursday 26 August 21 21:19 BST (UK)
That George canít be him as George Arthur is still at home in 1891 when the subject is in Canada in 1891.
*Debraís posts - #7 and 8
Title: Re: Footman or Coachman to Queen Victoria
Post by: BlueSky38 on Thursday 26 August 21 21:55 BST (UK)
Is this George Arthur's birth?

WOOD, GEORGE  ARTHUR     SMITH 
GRO Reference: 1868  M Quarter in BROMLEY UNION  Volume 02A  Page 335

Parents marriage?

Marriages Sep 1866   
SMITH    Mary M        Romney M.    2a   1361   
Wood    George C        Romney M.    2a   1361

1871 census

Living at New Inn, Lydd, Romney Marsh, Kent
George born Lydd, wife Mary M, children George A and Kate

Registration district Romney Marsh
Piece number 1022
Folio 9
Page 11

George's occupation is a ??  keeper.  I can't make out the first word, it appears to be a contraction of a longer word.

Yes, this is exactly who I believe his is..  George C Wood is the Inn Keeper at the New Inn during that cencus. 
Title: Re: Footman or Coachman to Queen Victoria
Post by: maddys52 on Thursday 26 August 21 21:59 BST (UK)
Unfortunately there must be a mistake, as the marriage record for George Arthur WOOD, with father George Christmas WOOD (grocer) is clearly in 1893 to Elizabeth BREEDS. see reply #2

I think you have the wrong George Arthur.
Title: Re: Footman or Coachman to Queen Victoria
Post by: heywood on Thursday 26 August 21 22:01 BST (UK)
Your George was already in Hamilton, Ontario by 1891.

https://central.bac-lac.gc.ca/.item/?app=Census1891&op=img&id=30953_148143-00737

Debra  :)

Is this not your George in Hamilton in 1891?

Does George give his parents on his marriage certificate or are they shown onn his death certificate?
Title: Re: Footman or Coachman to Queen Victoria
Post by: BlueSky38 on Thursday 26 August 21 22:06 BST (UK)
Doulton & Co became Royal Doulton in 1902, when a royal warrant was given.
Queen Victoria died in 1901.


Tony

Good to know!  Thank you for that info!
Title: Re: Footman or Coachman to Queen Victoria
Post by: Girl Guide on Thursday 26 August 21 22:07 BST (UK)
Okay there is obviously some confusion here.  Family history unfortunately abounds with tales which later research proves to be incorrect.

What facts are you positive about regarding the Wood family?  At what point are you quite sure about the Wood family?  Is this your mother's side or father's side?

Can you name someone who is already deceased and you are quite certain about?  When and where was he/she born?

Added: Or are we talking about your MIL's family? Father's or mother's side?
Title: Re: Footman or Coachman to Queen Victoria
Post by: maddys52 on Thursday 26 August 21 22:11 BST (UK)
On the 1891 census provided by Debra, George WOOD is age 21, so born c1870.

Sorry, modified to correct typo.

I know Canadian marriage records are hard to find, but do you have a death certificate?
Title: Re: Footman or Coachman to Queen Victoria
Post by: BlueSky38 on Thursday 26 August 21 22:14 BST (UK)
Your George was already in Hamilton, Ontario by 1891.

https://central.bac-lac.gc.ca/.item/?app=Census1891&op=img&id=30953_148143-00737

Debra  :)

Is this not your George in Hamilton in 1891?

Does George give his parents on his marriage certificate or are they shown onn his death certificate?

Yes, that does look like him!  His parents' first names are on his death certificate....George and Mary.  And that fits with George Christmas/Chrismas and Mary Matilda Smith.  I'm looking through all my documentation now to make sure I made the right connections back in England
Title: Re: Footman or Coachman to Queen Victoria
Post by: BlueSky38 on Thursday 26 August 21 22:16 BST (UK)
On the 1891 census provided by Debra, George WOOD is age 21, so born c1870.

Sorry, modified to correct typo.

I know Canadian marriage records are hard to find, but do you have a death certificate?

Yes I do.  It lists his parents as George and Mary from England. 
Title: Re: Footman or Coachman to Queen Victoria
Post by: maddys52 on Thursday 26 August 21 22:26 BST (UK)
So next question ... was he known as George Arthur WOOD, the 1891 census and his death cert both just have George WOOD. The reason I'm asking is that there is only 1 George Arthur WOOD birth reg in Mar qtr 1869 , but 20 or so George's.
Title: Re: Footman or Coachman to Queen Victoria
Post by: maddys52 on Thursday 26 August 21 22:39 BST (UK)
There is a George James WOOD baptised at St Mary Rotherhithe, Southwark on 11 April 1869, born 18 March 1869 to parents George James WOOD (?? watchman) and Mary Ann. I see the death cert says his date of birth was 16 March 1869, so this may or not be the another possibility.  :-\
Title: Re: Footman or Coachman to Queen Victoria
Post by: Girl Guide on Thursday 26 August 21 22:40 BST (UK)
Yes Maddy I was looking at the births and if George's birth date is correct the only birth record that fits if Arthur is his second name is:-

WOOD, GEORGE  ARTHUR     SHORT 
GRO Reference: 1869  M Quarter in MARYLEBONE  Volume 01A  Page 600

Parents marriage

Marriages Dec 1868 
Short    Susannah        Marylebone    1a   780   
Wood    Robert Ashwell        Marylebone    1a   780

I'll have a look and see how far down the census line I can go with this one.
Title: Re: Footman or Coachman to Queen Victoria
Post by: BlueSky38 on Thursday 26 August 21 22:42 BST (UK)
So next question ... was he known as George Arthur WOOD, the 1891 census and his death cert both just have George WOOD. The reason I'm asking is that there is only 1 George Arthur WOOD birth reg in Mar qtr 1869 , but 20 or so George's.

That's a great question!  The 1901 Census from Canada has his name as George A.  There is no other documentation after that of his middle name or middle initial.  His birth date matches up with a christening date for George Arthur Wood to parents George C an Mary Matilda.  So:

his death cert lists "George" and "Mary" as parents

his birth date listed in the Canadian census corresponds to a christening date four months later to people with those names,

his occupation is a coachman in the UK and in Canada,

This is how I made the connection. 
Title: Re: Footman or Coachman to Queen Victoria
Post by: maddys52 on Thursday 26 August 21 22:46 BST (UK)
There is a George James WOOD baptised at St Mary Rotherhithe, Southwark on 11 April 1869, born 18 March 1869 to parents George James WOOD (?? watchman) and Mary Ann. I see the death cert says his date of birth was 16 March 1869, so this may or not be the another possibility.  :-\

No, can't be this one as he appears to have died in Dec qtr 1869.
Title: Re: Footman or Coachman to Queen Victoria
Post by: BlueSky38 on Thursday 26 August 21 22:46 BST (UK)
There is a George James WOOD baptised at St Mary Rotherhithe, Southwark on 11 April 1869, born 18 March 1869 to parents George James WOOD (?? watchman) and Mary Ann. I see the death cert says his date of birth was 16 March 1869, so this may or not be the another possibility.  :-\

There are similarities.  I will look into this!

Thank you!
Title: Re: Footman or Coachman to Queen Victoria
Post by: BlueSky38 on Thursday 26 August 21 22:49 BST (UK)
There is a George James WOOD baptised at St Mary Rotherhithe, Southwark on 11 April 1869, born 18 March 1869 to parents George James WOOD (?? watchman) and Mary Ann. I see the death cert says his date of birth was 16 March 1869, so this may or not be the another possibility.  :-\

The 1901 Census has his birth date as 16 Mar 1868....so it's hard to know which is true.
Title: Re: Footman or Coachman to Queen Victoria
Post by: Girl Guide on Thursday 26 August 21 22:56 BST (UK)
Note what Maddy said about that one:-

Quote
There is a George James WOOD baptised at St Mary Rotherhithe, Southwark on 11 April 1869, born 18 March 1869 to parents George James WOOD (?? watchman) and Mary Ann. I see the death cert says his date of birth was 16 March 1869, so this may or not be the another possibility.  :-\

No, can't be this one as he appears to have died in Dec qtr 1869.
Title: Re: Footman or Coachman to Queen Victoria
Post by: BlueSky38 on Thursday 26 August 21 23:01 BST (UK)
That George canít be him as George Arthur is still at home in 1891 when the subject is in Canada in 1891.
*Debraís posts - #7 and 8

Yes, yes, I see my problem.  The one instance of the "A" in the census caused me trouble.  So it seems I've really been researching the wrong family entirely.  I can't believe it.  I thought I was careful! :-\
Title: Re: Footman or Coachman to Queen Victoria
Post by: Girl Guide on Thursday 26 August 21 23:11 BST (UK)
Don't worry too much about it Blue.  We've all been there at some point in our research.  It's only too easy to jump to conclusions and end up following the wrong line.

I'll go back to what I asked you originally.

What facts are you positive about regarding the Wood family?  At what point are you quite sure about the Wood family?

Do you have certificates proving the connection from your MIL backwards?  Is this your MIL's family that you are researching?  If so her mother's side or her father's side?

Where in the line could it be uncertain that you have the correct information?
Title: Re: Footman or Coachman to Queen Victoria
Post by: BlueSky38 on Friday 27 August 21 00:08 BST (UK)
Don't worry too much about it Blue.  We've all been there at some point in our research.  It's only too easy to jump to conclusions and end up following the wrong line.

I'll go back to what I asked you originally.

What facts are you positive about regarding the Wood family?  At what point are you quite sure about the Wood family?

Do you have certificates proving the connection from your MIL backwards?  Is this your MIL's family that you are researching?  If so her mother's side or her father's side?

Where in the line could it be uncertain that you have the correct information?

Thanks, it's definitely upsetting to realize that I've been researching the wrong people! However, I'm really very grateful to have it pointed out to me so I can find the right people! 

This is my MILs mother's side.  My MIL wrote down the names and some info from her parents and grandparents.  George Wood is her great grandfather who I had to find for myself (she had no info past her grandparents) I am certain that the George in Hamilton, Ontario is the right person because I have found documents linking him to my MIL's grandmother. 

My downfall was linking Ontario George to the wrong England George.   :-\  So I will begin to scour records and see if I can find the actual person- who might actually have been a footman for the queen. 

Title: Re: Footman or Coachman to Queen Victoria
Post by: maddys52 on Friday 27 August 21 04:01 BST (UK)

Thanks, it's definitely upsetting to realize that I've been researching the wrong people! However, I'm really very grateful to have it pointed out to me so I can find the right people! 


As GG says, I'm sure we've all done it! I know I have.  ;)

Death certificates of course are only as accurate as the informant knew, so if the census has his date of birth as 1868, presumably this is information he gave, so perhaps more accurate.

I also note that it says 45 years in the province (though nothing noted for time in Canada itself). The 1901 census also says arr 1887 in Canada. I've been looking at immigration records trying to find George. Hard as it is quite a common name.

There are a few possibilities:
arr 14 Sept 1887, George WOOD (labourer), his intended location is Toronto, on the Polynesian.
also, not sure if it's the same person on the same voyage, intended location Quebec:
Mary WOOD  45   (wife)
George           19  (labourer)
Annie              21  (domestic)
Alice                16  (domestic)
William            11
Nellie               8
Ada                 4

Also, arr on 13 July 1884, also on the Polynesian:
Mary WOOD   51  (wife)
Adelaide          23
George            16  (labourer)

(I think Adelaide marries in York, Toronto in 1886 and says her father was James, so probably not yours.)

Also, arr 30 April 1872 on the Texas:
Mary WOOD   30
Annie               6
George            4
Alice
Title: Re: Footman or Coachman to Queen Victoria
Post by: maddys52 on Friday 27 August 21 04:23 BST (UK)

Death certificates of course are only as accurate as the informant knew, so if the census has his date of birth as 1868, presumably this is information he gave, so perhaps more accurate.


Though I've just seen the 1911 census where he says March 1869.  ::)
Title: Re: Footman or Coachman to Queen Victoria
Post by: maddys52 on Friday 27 August 21 04:34 BST (UK)
In 1887 there is also a George WOOD aged 18 arr Canada on the Sardinian as part of the Home Children immigration.
Title: Re: Footman or Coachman to Queen Victoria
Post by: Girl Guide on Friday 27 August 21 08:32 BST (UK)
I think what would really help is to find George's marriage to Louise/Louisa?  If that can be found that would have his parents names on it.

I notice that the 1911 census seems to give Louisa's place of birth as England.  Have you made any attempt to find a birth certificate for one of the children?  That should give you Louisa's maiden name which would help in locating a marriage.

Has George been found in the 1891 census?  The first child is Ethel M born 9 May 1891 according to the 1911 census so after the 1891 census was taken.
Title: Re: Footman or Coachman to Queen Victoria
Post by: maddys52 on Friday 27 August 21 09:03 BST (UK)
Yes, Louisa's maiden name Langley. George is on the Canadian 1891 census Debra posted reply#8. Have looked for a marriage, but from past experience know Canadian marriages can be hard to locate. :)
Title: Re: Footman or Coachman to Queen Victoria
Post by: Girl Guide on Friday 27 August 21 09:29 BST (UK)
Thanks Maddy, I had forgotten that bit  ::)

I see that the 1891 census was taken on the 14th April 1891 and Ethel, according to the 1911, was born on 9th May 1891.  George is down as a lodger and no indication that he is married, there is just a line in that column.

I wonder if we can find Louise in the 1891?
Title: Re: Footman or Coachman to Queen Victoria
Post by: Girl Guide on Friday 27 August 21 09:54 BST (UK)
When I wonder did George and Louisa marry?

There is an 1891 census record for a Louisa Langley living in the Hamilton district of Ontario with her parents John and Louisa and eight siblings.  Birthplace is England.

Is this George's Louisa?
Title: Re: Footman or Coachman to Queen Victoria
Post by: maddys52 on Friday 27 August 21 11:46 BST (UK)
When Ethel Mae WOOD marries on 31 Dec 1913 Wentworth, Ontario, she says her parents are George WOOD and Louisa LANGLEY. However, there is a birth registration for Ethel May WOOD born 13 April 1891, registered 4 May 1891 with parents George WOOD (plasterers labourer) and Hannah ROWATT (of 830 Manning Avenue, Toronto). Is this the same Ethel?  :-\
Title: Re: Footman or Coachman to Queen Victoria
Post by: maddys52 on Friday 27 August 21 11:52 BST (UK)
Oh, no I'm wrong again. There is another Ethel May WOOD - found her marriage 10 May 1910 to Harry HARRIS, with parents George WOOD and Hannah ROWATT.  :-[
Title: Re: Footman or Coachman to Queen Victoria
Post by: maddys52 on Friday 27 August 21 12:00 BST (UK)
Familysearch have her birth 9 May 1892 at Hamilton. Parents George WOOD and Louisa LANGE.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XLBW-SLK
Title: Re: Footman or Coachman to Queen Victoria
Post by: Girl Guide on Friday 27 August 21 13:12 BST (UK)
I've double checked the image for that 1911 census and it does say May 1892 for Ethel. 

Now the transcript shows that George was born in Ontario, Canada.  Place of residence Hamilton, Ontario.  If you look at the image below this shows as O whereas Louisa's birthplace is given as England. Is this the right George  ???

Title: Re: Footman or Coachman to Queen Victoria
Post by: BlueSky38 on Friday 27 August 21 20:14 BST (UK)
When I wonder did George and Louisa marry?

There is an 1891 census record for a Louisa Langley living in the Hamilton district of Ontario with her parents John and Louisa and eight siblings.  Birthplace is England.

Is this George's Louisa?

I think it is.  I have a 1901 cencus that has George and Louisa with 3 children (Ethel- who is my mil's grandmother), Lilly, Beatrice.  On that same page there is John and Louisa Langley listed with 5 kids.   So i think this must be Louisa's family living close by.
Title: Re: Footman or Coachman to Queen Victoria
Post by: BlueSky38 on Friday 27 August 21 20:17 BST (UK)
Familysearch have her birth 9 May 1892 at Hamilton. Parents George WOOD and Louisa LANGE.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XLBW-SLK

I have her death certificate listing her birth as 9 June 1871.  Death is 31 July 1941. It has her parents listed as John Langley and Louise Drewitt. 

I was hoping I could locate more about George through her.  Still can't find a marriage certificate. 
Title: Re: Footman or Coachman to Queen Victoria
Post by: BlueSky38 on Friday 27 August 21 20:26 BST (UK)
When I wonder did George and Louisa marry?

There is an 1891 census record for a Louisa Langley living in the Hamilton district of Ontario with her parents John and Louisa and eight siblings.  Birthplace is England.

Is this George's Louisa?

Yes, I have that same census and I do believe it is her.  I've been studying the 1891,1901,1911,1921 cencus records .  They weren't living together prior to the 1901 census.  So they got married sometime between 1891 and 1901.  Their oldest child Ethel was born in May of 1892.  So if they were married before she was born then that puts their wedding date in 1891.  Does that seem right?

It still hasn't helped me locate the record but I also haven't had a lot of time to spend searching. 

Thank you for all of your suggestions and help!
Title: Re: Footman or Coachman to Queen Victoria
Post by: Girl Guide on Friday 27 August 21 20:30 BST (UK)
I looked at the GRO website for Louisa's birth and found:-

LANGLEY, LOUISA  JANE     DREWITT 
GRO Reference: 1871  S Quarter in KINGSTON  Volume 02A  Page 256

I get the same mmn for her siblings.

I found Louisa with her parents in the 1891 census for Hamilton, Ontario.  That census was taken on 22nd April 1891.  One would assume that Louisa and George married some time between then and the birth of Ethel.

Are you able to contact any kind of registrar's department for Hamilton to ask for a search for a marriage between Louisa and George?

I am not familiar with the Canadian BMD system so not sure what is possible.
Title: Re: Footman or Coachman to Queen Victoria
Post by: Gibel on Saturday 28 August 21 12:48 BST (UK)
Thereís an Ontario Marriage Index on Family search. I found Ethel Mayís marriage there and one of her siblings but no marriage for the parents.
Title: Re: Footman or Coachman to Queen Victoria
Post by: MonicaL on Saturday 28 August 21 18:13 BST (UK)

...The 1901 Census from Canada has his name as George A.  There is no other documentation after that of his middle name or middle initial....


His gravestone does include his initial A. See http://geneofun.on.ca/names/photo/1158739

Monica
Title: Re: Footman or Coachman to Queen Victoria
Post by: Girl Guide on Saturday 28 August 21 18:31 BST (UK)
That was worth finding Monica.  Now if a marriage record for George and Louisa could be found that would hopefully clarify whether his father was George Christmas Wood.

Do we assume that they probably married in Hamilton?
Title: Re: Footman or Coachman to Queen Victoria
Post by: ShaunJ on Saturday 28 August 21 20:43 BST (UK)
Quote
My MIL tells me that one of her grandfathers was either a footman or a coachman for the Queen of England.  She identified two men -  father and son- who she suspected could be the person.

If it was her grandfather we can't be going too far back into the 19th century; and the only two possible candidates could not be father and son. This doesn't really hang together.
Title: Re: Footman or Coachman to Queen Victoria
Post by: MonicaL on Saturday 28 August 21 21:01 BST (UK)
Potentially, GG....but as we know...hard to be certain without the registration.

A new possibility perhaps back in England for George A.

There is the family of a George Wood and a Mary Ann who raised their family in the London area. Can't find their marriage, but I believe her maiden name may have been Humphrey. This may be her with her family www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGTW-36F and www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QGZT-MQJP And George with his family in 1851 www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGGD-JBW

Their son George (showing as the eldest although there may have been another one before him born c. 1867 as I saw a christening in Jan 1868 in Lambeth that could fit for this couple) shows as born 1st Qrt 1869 in Wandsworth (which would fit with the birth date showing for George on his Canadian records I think):

WOOD, GEORGE - Mother's maiden name HUMPHRIES     
GRO Reference: 1869  M Quarter in WANDSWORTH  Volume 01D  Page 532

Mary Ann died in 1892. George remarried in 1894, a widow called Jemima Canfill. In this registration he is down as a wheelwright, his father Moses, a blacksmith.

George Jnr shows with parents in 1871 and 1881 only.

Some census entries for this family:

1871 Not found this yet
1881 www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q273-3B43
1891 www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QQ6N-4ZM
1901www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X9H4-CSC (some later born children belong to Jemima's first marriage)
1911 www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWL6-B2K

So, wondering whether this could be George and his family roots?

Monica



Title: Re: Footman or Coachman to Queen Victoria
Post by: Girl Guide on Saturday 28 August 21 21:16 BST (UK)
It's worth bearing in mind Monica.  No harm in noting any possible candidates until such time as the marriage for George and Louisa comes to light.
Title: Re: Footman or Coachman to Queen Victoria
Post by: maddys52 on Sunday 29 August 21 11:40 BST (UK)
That was worth finding Monica.  Now if a marriage record for George and Louisa could be found that would hopefully clarify whether his father was George Christmas Wood.



Definitely not George Christmas (his son married Elizabeth BREEDS (reply #2)  ;)

It will be a bit a bit of work, but without a marriage certificate to see his mother's maiden name, you do know his birth date: 16 March either 1868 or 1869, and hopefully parents George and Mary. Whilst there are around 40 George WOODs born in the Mar qtr 1868 &1869, you could try to reduce the number by following them all - some are easily identified in subsequent marriages and census records. (and death records like the one I mistakenly suggested in reply#25)

I had a look at the ones with a middle name "A", but they all seem to be accounted for.  ;)
Title: Re: Footman or Coachman to Queen Victoria
Post by: Dundee on Sunday 29 August 21 12:26 BST (UK)
Ethel May's birth, the format doesn't help in identifying whether or not they were married.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939J-634G-R

Hamilton marriages from April 1891 start here:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9Q97-Y39Y-651

Debra  :)