RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: catdog4 on Friday 17 September 21 16:45 BST (UK)
-
Hi
I need some help tracking down John Bailey (snr) father of John Bailey (jnr)
I have the marriage cert of his son.
3rd March 1869 at Register Office in Lancaster by license
John Bailey aged 22 years - farm laborer
married
Elizabeth Whittingham aged 21 - domestic servant
Father of groom - John Bailey deceased Railway stoker
Father of Bride - Robert Whittingham - Farmer
I have John (jnr) and Elizabeth Bailey on the 1871 UK census at Weavers Farm Cabus Garstang Lancashire. John gives his age as 23 born 1848 Manchester ag Laborer. John is working for Richard Airey.
John Bailey (jnr) dies in 1880 aged 33 years. Leaving Elizabeth with 7 children and one on the way. In 1881 she is at Garstang Winmarleigh aged 32 - Annuitant.
I have lots on Elizabeth's side Thank you.
Trying to work out more on John Bailey (snr) going backwards. And I can not find John Bailey (jnr) pre marriage.
Thank you
-
Hello and welcome to Rootschat!
What was John jnr's address on the 1869 Marriage, and what are the names of the witness?
They may have some clues.
Cheer
AMBLY
-
John Bailey (jrn) Edward Street Lancaster
Elizabeth - address Winmarleigh
Witness Robert Fell and Mary Marshall.
I have no idea if these witnesses are related.
-
Welcome to Rootschat, your Railway Stoker might elsewhere be a Fireman! ;D
Bests,
Skoosh.
-
Welcome to rootschat
John Bailey (jnr) dies in 1880 aged 33 years. Leaving Elizabeth with 7 children and one on the way. In 1881 she is at Garstang Winmarleigh aged 32 - Annuitant.
Presumably her income after Johns death came from her parents :-\
-
What were the names of the 7 children?
-
Surprisingly, the GRO lists just one John Bailey, born between 1846 and 1850 Manchester, with no middle name.
BAILEY, JOHN WELSH
GRO Reference: 1847 S Quarter in MANCHESTER Volume 20 Page 663
-
Children of John (jnr) and Elizabeth Bailey (nee Whittingham)
1. George Whittingham born 1868 Baptisted at St Helen's Church Garstang Lancashire married
1892 Mary Ann Railton Winmarleigh. Died NZ 1948.
2. Mary Bailey born 1869 Scorton Preston. married William Armer 1891 Garstang Lancashire.
Publican at Ship Inn Pilling. Mary died 1933.
3. Elizabeth Bailey born 1871 Garstang Living with mother on all census 1881 to 1911. Death ??
4. Margaret Bailey born 1873 married 1897 James Capstick Died NZ 1942
5.Annie Bailey born 1875 Garstang. Possible married Richard Ronson -ag Laborer by the 1901
Census. ??
6. Isabella Bailey born 1877 Garstang Possible death 1895 Settle.
7. John Bailey born 1878 Garstang On UK Census 1881 to 1911 with mother.
8. Robert Bailey born 1880 on UK census 1881, 71, 91 and 1911 with mother. 1901 at New Hall
farm working for Mary A Singleton - farmer. as a Teamster. Mother living on neighboring farm.
Possible record 1939 UK Register at Rose Cottege Kirkham Garstrang - gamekeeper married.
Brother John Bailey living with them.
I looked at the Welsh / Bailey option. Can not find a marriage.
On the UK 1861 census John Bailey (snr) is a cotton spinner.
-
Did not word that right.
The only John Bailey born 1814 in Manchester I can find is a Cotton Spinner in Manchester. He has a son John Bailey the right age?? But Can not find a marriage wife is recorded as Eliza born about 1817.
-
can someone with more knowledge than myself explain these please
are there TWO Robert and Elizabeth Whittingham - BOTH living in the same village ?? or is this a baby christened twice in 5 days ??? confused
Baptism: 3 Apr 1849 St Thomas, Garstang, Lancashire, England
Elizabeth Whittingham - Daughter of Robert Whittingham & Elizabeth
Abode: Winmarleigh
Occupation: Labourer
Baptised by: William Armitstead, Minister
Register: Baptisms 1824 - 1858, Page 61, Entry 4
Source: LDS Film 1470930
.................................................................................................
Baptism: 8 Apr 1849 St Helen, Garstang, Lancashire, England
Elizabeth Whittingham - Daughter of Robert Whittingham & Elizabeth
Abode: Winmarleigh
Occupation: Labourer
Baptised by: W Armistead
Register: Baptisms 1838 - 1862, Page 117, Entry 932
Source: LDS Film 1278886
two different LDS film numbers - so looks like 2 different babies to me - and if they are 2 different babies - Catdog has a huge problem ??
-
Films on Family Search.
The April 3rd baptism is in a notebook
and the April 8th baptism is in the formal register. The baptism immediately before Elizabeth's in the notebook is also immediately before her in the register. I think it is probably an error that occurred when the details from the notebook were entered into the register.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-99G9-FKFG?i=890&cat=623039. (the register)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-99GY-PF6K?i=1092&cat=625608 (the notebook)
-
Thanks Mck - thought I was cracking up ...lol ...
-
I have Elizabeth Whittingham baptized 8 April 1849 at St Helens Garstang to Robert and Betty Whittingham.
(Betty nee Sharples)
There is a record for a Robert Whittingham of Winmarleigh to Betty Sharples of Cleveleys Lancashire on the 25 Oct 1831 at St Helens Garstang. Witnesses Betty and Thomas Smith.
-
Surprisingly, the GRO lists just one John Bailey, born between 1846 and 1850 Manchester, with no middle name.
BAILEY, JOHN WELSH
GRO Reference: 1847 S Quarter in MANCHESTER Volume 20 Page 663
Saw that one too, made even more intriguing for me, couldn't find any other BAILEY births +/- 10 years of 1847, mms WELSH/WELCH and couldn't find a BAILEY / WELSH (WELCH) marriage either .........?
Cheers
AMBLY
-
1846 John Bailey mmn Petty registered Hulme
1847 John Bailey mmn Welsh registered St George
1848 John Bailey mmn Carding registered Ardwick
1850 John Bailey mmn Morris registered Ardwick
-
Hi
St George in London area? That would rule out the Bailey / Welsh combination.
Thanks for all your help.
-
Hi
St George in London area? That would rule out the Bailey / Welsh combination.
Thanks for all your help.
St George was a registration area of Manchester
-
can someone with more knowledge than myself explain these please
are there TWO Robert and Elizabeth Whittingham - BOTH living in the same village ?? or is this a baby christened twice in 5 days ??? confused
Baptism: 3 Apr 1849 St Thomas, Garstang, Lancashire, England
Elizabeth Whittingham - Daughter of Robert Whittingham & Elizabeth
Abode: Winmarleigh
Occupation: Labourer
Baptised by: William Armitstead, Minister
Register: Baptisms 1824 - 1858, Page 61, Entry 4
Source: LDS Film 1470930
.................................................................................................
Baptism: 8 Apr 1849 St Helen, Garstang, Lancashire, England
Elizabeth Whittingham - Daughter of Robert Whittingham & Elizabeth
Abode: Winmarleigh
Occupation: Labourer
Baptised by: W Armistead
Register: Baptisms 1838 - 1862, Page 117, Entry 932
Source: LDS Film 1278886
two different LDS film numbers - so looks like 2 different babies to me - and if they are 2 different babies - Catdog has a huge problem ??
St. Thomas was in St. Helen's parish until 1881 when it became a separate parish. St. Thomas church is in the town of Garstang. St. Helen is 2 miles away in a little village called Churchtown.
Introduction to transcription of baptism register 1824-1858 explains:
"This transcription includes many entries which are duplicated in the Garstang St. Helen register for the same period (i.e. the mother church). "
www.lan-opc.org.uk/Garstang/stthomas/index.html
-
2. Mary Bailey born 1869 Scorton Preston.
Mary's birth was registered in Garstang district. Scorton was in Garstang civil parish and Garstang registration district. It's a village a few miles north of the town of Garstang, on the way to Lancaster. Preston is in the opposite direction from Garstang. Original registers of births, marriages and deaths are at the county records office in Preston. Index on Lancashire BMD.