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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Kent => Topic started by: heilanlassie on Sunday 19 September 21 15:47 BST (UK)
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On the 1891 census, Mary Ann Williams, widow, age 89, is to be found living as a lodger in 36 Seven Star Street, Dover.
Mary Ann Williams was born in 1802 in North Devon.
She married on 23 August 1825 to a William Howell. He died in 1847.
She then went on to marry a Philip McCree or McRae in 1847.
I can trace her still married to Philip until 1862, when they are living in London.
Philip must have died sometime between 1862 and 1891, but I can't find a death for him either.
Presumably, Mary Ann moved to Kent after Philip's death, and perhaps she also died in Kent, but I can't find a record under the name of Williams, Howell or McCree.
Hoping someone might be able to help.
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What happened to the son Philip George Alexander McCree.
Why do you think that the Mary A Williams you have in 1891 is the same person
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What happened to the son Philip George Alexander McCree.
Why do you think that the Mary A Williams you have in 1891 is the same person
The son, Philip George Alexander McCree, latterly known as Alexander was obviously sent to live with relatives in Ullapool.
He is found in the 1871 census living in Market Street, Ullapool, and stated to be a nephew to the head of the house, Alexina Mackenzie.
In the 1881 census, he is still living in Market Street, Ullapool, and is now stated to be a boarder and pauper.
In the 1891 census, he is still living in Market Street, Ullapool, and is now stated to be a cousin to the head of the house, Alexina Mackenzie.
In the 1901 census, he is still living in Market Street, Ullapool, but this time is stated to be an imbecile. Alexina is still the head of the house.
Alexina died on 10 April 1906. Her death certificate states that her mother was Mary Macrae, and the reputed father was Kenneth Mackenzie.
On the 1911 census, Alexander is living with my great-grandmother, Christina Mackenzie, in Pulteney Street, Ullapool. He is stated to be a lunatic.
Alexander died in 1918, in Pulteney Street, Ullapool.
As to the second question. Why do I think that the Mary Ann Williams in the 1891 census is one and the same.
Maybe I'm clutching at straws, but Alexander's mother, Mary Ann Williams was born in Devon in 1802, and the 1891 census states that the Mary Ann Williams, age 89, widow, was also born in Devon.
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You say you still have her up to 1862 in London - is that from an Electoral Register?
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Thank you for that very clear explanation about Philip/ Alexander :)
Philip the elder is certainly elusive
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There is an 1876 death in Poplar for a Mary McCree b 1801 - have you already discounted it?
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You say you still have her up to 1862 in London - is that from an Electoral Register?
No, quite by accident I discovered that her husband, Philip McCree had been admitted to the Whitechapel Union Infirmary, with a fever, on 18 June 1862.
He stated that he was a seaman, married, and his home address was 11 Unanimous Row.
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There is an 1876 death in Poplar for a Mary McCree b 1801 - have you already discounted it?
I haven't seen that.
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Thank you for that very clear explanation about Philip/ Alexander :)
Philip the elder is certainly elusive
Philip - the elder, is certainly elusive.
As a Highland Lass, I find it hard to believe that his name was Philip - that certainly isn't a usual name for a Highland Lad.
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Re. the Mary A Williams, born Woolsey (Devon), age 89 on the '91 Census, have you discounted the Mary Williams, died Dover, Sep Qtr 1893, Dover, 2a 649 - age 86
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Head of household, Joseph Newman, in 1891 is mentioned in the sale of
"No. 36, Seven Star Street contains 4 bedrooms, 2 sitting rooms and cellar, and is let to Mr Newman, a very old tenant, at 5s a week, tenant paying Water & Poor Rates".
Ages/years of birth are notoriously suspect on past documents. A sight of the death cert. might confirm this is the Mary A Williams at the 1891 Census address but would not identify her as the Mary A Williams you are chasing.
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The 1891 Mary (A) Williams is with her husband Richard in Dover in 1881
RG11/1004
Folio 39
Page 28
ADDED They can also be found in Dover in 1871 & 1861
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This particular Mary Williams died at the Dover Union (?) buried 8 July 1893
Re. the Mary A Williams, born Woolsey (Devon), age 89 on the '91 Census, have you discounted the Mary Williams, died Dover, Sep Qtr 1893, Dover, 2a 649 - age 86
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The 1891 Mary (A) Williams is with her husband Richard in Dover in 1881
RG11/1004
Folio 39
Page 28
ADDED They can also be found in Dover in 1871 & 1861
Well, that puts my theory to bed then :P
I just have to keep on searching for Alexander's parents, Mary Ann and Philip - and try to figure out why he was sent up to Ullapool after the 1861 census.
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This particular Mary Williams died at the Dover Union (?) buried 8 July 1893
Re. the Mary A Williams, born Woolsey (Devon), age 89 on the '91 Census, have you discounted the Mary Williams, died Dover, Sep Qtr 1893, Dover, 2a 649 - age 86
Thanks for that. I'm not really getting anywhere, but managing to get names discounted from research.
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You perhaps need to look at the 1876 death I mentioned. I don't think you are going to find her as Williams. By 1862 she was 61 & surname McCree so I can't see her reverting back to Williams after 2 marriages
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You perhaps need to look at the 1876 death I mentioned. I don't think you are going to find her as Williams. By 1862 she was 61 & surname McCree so I can't see her reverting back to Williams after 2 marriages
Perhaps I should order that death certificate. Would Poplar be in the right area?
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You perhaps need to look at the 1876 death I mentioned. I don't think you are going to find her as Williams. By 1862 she was 61 & surname McCree so I can't see her reverting back to Williams after 2 marriages
I've just ordered the death record from GRO.
Keep your fingers crossed that it's the right one - then I only have to find a death record for her husband, Philip.
Thank you for all your help and advice :-*
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Oh dear - I think it may be the Mary McCree b Poplar & living there in 1871. Can you cancel your order for the death cert??
Could Philip have died at sea?
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Oh dear - I think it may be the Mary McCree b Poplar & living there in 1871. Can you cancel your order for the death cert??
Could Philip have died at sea?
I have sent an email to GRO this morning, requesting to cancel my order - but I don't hold out much hope of them allowing a cancellation.
I'm not usually a "giver up" but trying to find out what happened to Mary Ann and Philip, and why they sent their son to live with relatives in Ullapool is just baffling me.
Thank you for trying to help :-*
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Oh dear - I think it may be the Mary McCree b Poplar & living there in 1871. Can you cancel your order for the death cert??
Could Philip have died at sea?
I have sent an email to GRO this morning, requesting to cancel my order - but I don't hold out much hope of them allowing a cancellation.
I'm not usually a "giver up" but trying to find out what happened to Mary Ann and Philip, and why they sent their son to live with relatives in Ullapool is just baffling me.
Thank you for trying to help :-*
Just an update.
The GRO obviously wouldn't entertain my request to cancel my order, even though not even 24 hours had passed. Wouldn't you think that if they couldn't refund the £7, they could have given a credit note - but no.
As you feared, the death certificate for Mary McCree was not for the Mary McCree that I am researching.
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I am so sorry - I should have checked first but it seemed like the right one given the name and age and locality.
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I am so sorry - I should have checked first but it seemed like the right one given the name and age and locality.
Please, please don't apologise you have nothing to be sorry for.
We both followed what looked like a very promising lead.
Thank you for trying to help.