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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: IsobelB on Saturday 25 September 21 21:54 BST (UK)

Title: John William Lee
Post by: IsobelB on Saturday 25 September 21 21:54 BST (UK)
I'm having difficulty finding information about John William Lee who was born in Blackburn Lancashire in 1882, parents John Lee & Ann (Annie) Lee nee Moran, other than the birth record I can't find him on any census or death records.
Can anyone help to find out what happened to him?

Title: Re: John William Lee
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Saturday 25 September 21 22:04 BST (UK)
There's a John William Lee aged 8 in the Blackburn workhouse in 1891. It says born Liverpool, though
Title: Re: John William Lee
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Saturday 25 September 21 22:06 BST (UK)
1901 - Barnsdale Farm, Darwen

John Kershaw    40
Mary Ann Kershaw    34
Ernest Kershaw    9
Lily Kershaw    7
Harry Kershaw    4
William Kershaw    1
John Wm Lee    19 - boarder, farm labourer, b Blackburn

RG13; 3921; 182; 45
Title: Re: John William Lee
Post by: IsobelB on Saturday 25 September 21 22:21 BST (UK)
The mother Ann Lee died in Blackburn in 1884, so I assume he was with father John Lee somewhere on the 1991 census but I can't find that record either.
Title: Re: John William Lee
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Saturday 25 September 21 22:26 BST (UK)
As I said n reply 1, looks like he's in the workhouse in 1891, except with incorrect place of birth
Title: Re: John William Lee
Post by: IsobelB on Saturday 25 September 21 22:36 BST (UK)
It doesn't look like it's the same John W Lee, he was definitely born in Blackburn as I have a birth certificate for him.
Title: Re: John William Lee
Post by: Lincoln1955 on Saturday 25 September 21 22:47 BST (UK)
Not sure everything is always 100% correct when researching.
Title: Re: John William Lee
Post by: Girl Guide on Sunday 26 September 21 08:36 BST (UK)
I wouldn't assume that places of birth are always accurate. 

Just out of interest I looked for the birth of a child two below John's name, Herbert Pickering.  Place of birth is given as Accrington which is in the registration district of Haslingden. 

The only birth registration that fits for Herbert is DQ 1883 Blackburn.

Mabel found John in 1901 with the correct place of Blackburn.  Have you found John in the 1911 census?

Title: Re: John William Lee
Post by: amondg on Sunday 26 September 21 08:47 BST (UK)
There is another John William Lee registered in Blackburn 1881 with mothers maiden name Hewitt.

John Lee married Jane Hewitt 27 July 1879 Walton on the Hill

John Lee married Ann Moran 1881

There must be at least 8 men by the name of John Lee old enough to be his father in 1891 most of them are lodgers.

What other evidence do you have that John Lee and Ann Moran are his parents
Title: Re: John William Lee
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Sunday 26 September 21 13:53 BST (UK)
John and Jane Hewitt Lee are together in Walton on the Hill/Toxteth Park in 1881 and 1891. They have a son Harry born the same quarter as  John William Lee mmn Hewitt of Blackburn, so I don;t think they're an alternative
Title: Re: John William Lee
Post by: IsobelB on Sunday 26 September 21 15:45 BST (UK)
I think your previous post regarding a John William Lee working on the farm in Darwen on the 1901 census age 19 which ties in with the 1882 birth year and being near Blackburn where he was born.
Maybe he was called up for the first world was as he would have then been only 33.
Title: Re: John William Lee
Post by: Br1gau on Sunday 26 September 21 19:06 BST (UK)
Hi Isobel,

Your John William Lee, mmn MORAN was born 3Q 1882.  Searching 1939 brings up just one born Jul-Aug-Sep; 13 Sep 1882.  Does this match the certificate you have?
Title: Re: John William Lee
Post by: IsobelB on Sunday 26 September 21 19:59 BST (UK)
The birth certificate I have for my John William Lee gives a birth date of 14th June 1882, born at 46 George St. West Blackburn, mother Annie Lee formerly Moran, father John Lee an Insurance Agent, date registered 22nd July 1882.
Title: Re: John William Lee
Post by: MonicaL on Sunday 26 September 21 20:42 BST (UK)
John William Lee looks to have had a half brother, son of Ann Moran before marriage www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=668195.0

Some details here on marriage of John Lee and Ann Moran. It may help with searches www.lan-opc.org.uk/Search/indexp.html

Ages might be out though. Ann Moran showing as only aged 26 in her 1881 entry www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q275-JV32

Monica
Title: Re: John William Lee
Post by: Br1gau on Sunday 26 September 21 21:47 BST (UK)
No matches in 1939 for a John Lee born 14 July 1882 unfortunately.  Interesting background links, Monica.  For reference, from the second one, this is John Leeís and Annie Moranís 1881 marriage

Marriage: Jun 1881 St Anne, Blackburn, Lancashire, England
Joannem Lee - 30 Leyland St.
Annam Moran - 32 Leyland St.
Groom's Father: Matthaei Lee
Bride's Father: Jacobi Moran
Witness: Richardus Sharples; Birgitta O'Malley
Married by: Eduardus Woods
Register: Marriages 1852 - 1887, Page 277
Source: Original Register at Lancashire Archives
Title: Re: John William Lee
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Sunday 26 September 21 22:13 BST (UK)
John Lee is at 30-32 Leyland St in the  1881 census. Looks to be a boarding house. He's a widower, insurance canvasser, b Manchester c 1838
Title: Re: John William Lee
Post by: IsobelB on Monday 27 September 21 15:14 BST (UK)
Following the marriage of Annie Moran & John Lee in June 1881 in Blackburn and the birth of John William Lee in 1882 in Blackburn, Annie died in July 1884 which I assume left John William with his son John William but there doesn't appear to be any record of them on the 1891 census.
Title: Re: John William Lee
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Monday 27 September 21 19:06 BST (UK)
Apart from young John in the workhouse?  Yes it says pob Liverpool, but that depends on the accuracy of the person giving the info when he was admitted. If he had been orphaned by then, it could be someone working on a misunderstanding

Title: Re: John William Lee
Post by: IsobelB on Monday 27 September 21 21:09 BST (UK)
It's difficult to believe the son was in the Blackburn workhouse in 1891 because Annie Lee's (Moran) family were still living near to them in Blackburn during the 1891 census, if the father John Lee moved away or died soon after Annie I would think her family would have looked after John William before allowing him to go into the workhouse, also the workhouse record stating he was born in Liverpool is confusing.
Title: Re: John William Lee
Post by: Lincoln1955 on Monday 27 September 21 23:03 BST (UK)
I have found children put  in the workhouse when my great great grandmother left k6 great great granddad and moved in with another man and only took her youngest child aged 1. He4 2 olde4 boys aged between 10 and 15 went to workhouse with their father, so it is possible.

The father of John may well have met someone and moved in with her and her family,
Title: Re: John William Lee
Post by: IsobelB on Tuesday 28 September 21 10:15 BST (UK)
Annie was John Lee's second wife, both wives died young due to illnesses, Annie was 25 & John was 38 when they married in 1881, maybe he moved on & found another partner but again with regard to the son John William who was just 2 years old when his mother died in 1884 he was born in Annie's family home in Blackburn, so my thinking is that Annie's family would have taken him in if his father decided to move on rather than him being in put in the workhouse in Blackburn.
Just my thoughts.