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Title: Can anyone help find more on this William cordiner drowning
Post by: ryan37 on Wednesday 29 September 21 13:18 BST (UK)
SEAMAN DROWNED AT MIDDLESBROUGH

- from - the north eastern daily gazette - 24 March 1897




Yesterday a man named William Cordiner (24) able seaman on board ss Horden, at present lying at Williams' Wharf, lost his life whilst attempting to board his ship. It appears that Hy Goodman, able seaman on board the same vessel, whilst keeping watch onboard, saw the deceased coming along the wharf from opposite the ship's stern to about midship. There was a light on the gangway, and the vessel lay about ten feet from the wharf. He spoke to the deceased, and told him to be careful. The deceased apparently slipped off the wharf, and fell into the river between the wharf and the ship. Goodman saw him fall, and saw the splash in the water. He shouted, and threw a rope down to where the deceased fell, but he did not see him rise again. He called the chief mate, Wm Crighton, who reported the occurrance at the police office. Grappling irons were got, and the body was recovered at 2:15 am to-day, and was conveyed to the Mortuary.



Can anyone find more on this

Please note the newspaper cutting named William George instead so I have edited that - it was definetly William ,
He was my great grandfathers uncle

Iím interested to see if anyone can find info or a photo of SS HORDEN ,

And also we were told that William had a baby or twins to a local woman of Middlesbrough, I have no idea how to find out if when born if they were given the surname cordiner ?

Any help or clues to this incident would be appreciated

Ryan

Title: Re: Can anyone help find more on this William cordiner drowning
Post by: Girl Guide on Wednesday 29 September 21 14:32 BST (UK)
I see from his marine death registration that he came from Peterhead in Scotland.  I wondered why I couldn't find his birth on the GRO.

I can't find any record of Cordiner births in Middlesborough between 1885 and 1897.  If there were any children and William wasn't married, then they would more than likely be registered under the mother's surname.  With no knowledge of her name it would be virtually impossible to locate them.
Title: Re: Can anyone help find more on this William cordiner drowning
Post by: sgf28 on Wednesday 29 September 21 16:44 BST (UK)
East Aberdeenshire Advertiser 30 March 1897

'Peterhead - Sad death of a Seaman.
News was received in Peterhead last week by his parents of the drowning at Middlesbrough of William Cordiner, a sailor and the son of Mr James Cordiner (Bottles), Port Henry Road, Peterhead. It appears that Cordiner's vessel arrived in Middlesbrough on Monday and on the following evening, Cordiner who had been walking on the Wharf, slipped and fell into the water and was drowned. Deceased who was a promising young man had arrived at Middlesbrough after a three months voyage to America. He was only 24 years of age and this was his first lengthy absence from home. He was unmarried. Great sympathy is felt for his parents in Peterhead.'
Title: Re: Can anyone help find more on this William cordiner drowning
Post by: ryan37 on Wednesday 29 September 21 18:27 BST (UK)
Thanks folks for the information

The news of the child came many years later unfortunately probably too late for connections to be made , maybe just passed down from person to person
Probably a lot harder to find with no marriage and no name of mother it makes it like a needle in a haystack to find it
Thank you all

Would I be ok to start a new post regarding the SS HORDEN ?

Ryan

Ryan
Title: Re: Can anyone help find more on this William cordiner drowning
Post by: GR2 on Wednesday 29 September 21 20:26 BST (UK)
I have tracked the SS Horden through 1896 and to March 1897:

1896:

February 7 - Horden (SS), West Hartlepool, Careful, BILBAO, 996 (19 men) - Maclay & M'Intyre 1800 tons iron ore - Wm. Jacks & Co.

February 14 - arrived Barry Dock - Horden, Clyde.

February 18 - sailed from Barry Dock - Horden SS, Las Palmas.
February 19 - cleared for sailing Cardiff - Teneriffe or Las Palmas, Horden SS, B. 1800 coal

July 28 - Horden SS, at Kiel from Tyne.

August 27 - Horden SS, passed St Catherine's Point for West.

September 19 - outwards - for Algiers, Horden SS, B, 1262, Tritton, J & C Harrison

November 23 - arrived Barry Dock, Horden SS, Southampton.

1897:

January 2 - Horden SS, at Bilbao from Rotterdam.

January 20 - Horden SS, at Rotterdam.

January 28 - Horden SS, at Bilbao  from Rotterdam

February 14 - Horden SS, at Bilbao from Tees.

February 19 - Horden SS, at Middlesborough from Bilbao.

March 2 - Horden SS, left Tyne for Bilbao.

March 24 - Horden SS, at Middlesborough from Bilbao.


If he had sailed to America, it must have been on a different ship.

Title: Re: Can anyone help find more on this William cordiner drowning
Post by: ryan37 on Wednesday 29 September 21 21:11 BST (UK)
Wow thatís amazing info

Iam I reading correct it was carrying 1800 tonnes of coal?

Is their any resources to find a photo of this vessel ?

Thanks so much for looking for that info

Ryan

Title: Re: Can anyone help find more on this William cordiner drowning
Post by: GR2 on Wednesday 29 September 21 21:19 BST (UK)
It will be 1800 tons of coal. I just entered SS Horden in a newspaper index and those reports came up. I just Googled it and found a page with details of its career, which I will paste in below.

http://www.theshipslist.com/ships/lines/ropner.shtml
Title: Re: Can anyone help find more on this William cordiner drowning
Post by: Isabel H on Wednesday 29 September 21 23:35 BST (UK)
East Aberdeenshire Advertiser 30 March 1897

'Peterhead - Sad death of a Seaman.
News was received in Peterhead last week by his parents of the drowning at Middlesbrough of William Cordiner, a sailor and the son of Mr James Cordiner (Bottles), Port Henry Road, Peterhead. It appears that Cordiner's vessel arrived in Middlesbrough on Monday and on the following evening, Cordiner who had been walking on the Wharf, slipped and fell into the water and was drowned. Deceased who was a promising young man had arrived at Middlesbrough after a three months voyage to America. He was only 24 years of age and this was his first lengthy absence from home. He was unmarried. Great sympathy is felt for his parents in Peterhead.'

The Aberdeen Press and Journal 31 March 1897 has the same account with this addition:

The sad event was not long in getting abroad among the fishing community, and when Cordiner's father sailed in the trader Sweet Home yesterday evening in order to bring home the remains of his son, a large company of sympathisers witnessed his departure.
Title: Re: Can anyone help find more on this William cordiner drowning
Post by: GR2 on Thursday 30 September 21 00:00 BST (UK)
The Sweet Home was due to leave Peterhead for Aberdeen at 10 a.m. on 30th March. If the newspaper article is correct, it must have left later. It returned from Aberdeen to Peterhead with a cargo of goods next day, so William Cordiner's father must have travelled on from Aberdeen on another vessel.
Title: Re: Can anyone help find more on this William cordiner drowning
Post by: ryan37 on Thursday 30 September 21 14:37 BST (UK)
Thanks for all the above info and links itís very nice of you all to help me

Regarding sweet home

Iím
Thinking this newspaper is true that cordiner (Williams father) sailed to Middlesbrough with sweet home to reach Williams body and take home ,

Sweet home was owned any operated by the Robertson family an uncle of James cordiner

Ryan
Title: Re: Can anyone help find more on this William cordiner drowning
Post by: ryan37 on Thursday 30 September 21 14:42 BST (UK)
Can anyone manage to track down a photo even if itís the renamed HORDEN as mentioned on the link provided she changed hands a few times

Ryan
Title: Re: Can anyone help find more on this William cordiner drowning
Post by: GR2 on Thursday 30 September 21 15:11 BST (UK)
He must just have gone as far as Aberdeen with Sweet Home, as the ship left Aberdeen for Peterhead on the 31st March and arrived in Dundee from Peterhead with a cargo of manure on 2nd April.
Title: Re: Can anyone help find more on this William cordiner drowning
Post by: ryan37 on Thursday 30 September 21 15:15 BST (UK)
Thank you , can you check if possible
For me
When the sweet home went between Peterhead and Middlesbrough after Williams death , within 2 weeks of the death ?

Ryan
Title: Re: Can anyone help find more on this William cordiner drowning
Post by: GR2 on Thursday 30 September 21 16:27 BST (UK)
1/4/97 - sailed Phd for Leith
4/4/97 - arrived Phd from Leith
6/4/97 - sailed Phd for Aberdeen
8/4/97 - arrived Phd from Aberdeen
8/4/97 - sailed Phd for Leith
10/4/97 - sailed Leith for Phd
13/4/97 - sailed Phd for Aberdeen
14/4/97 - sailed Aberdeen for Phd
15/4/97 - sailed Phd for Leith
17/4/97 - sailed Leith for Phd
20/4/97 - sailed Phd for Aberdeen
21/4/97 - sailed Aberdeen for Phd
22/4/97 - sailed Phd for Leith

The cost of a single ticket between Peterhead and Aberdeen was 1/6d (return 2/6d).
The cost of a single ticket between Peterhead and Leith was 5/- (7/6d return).

James Cordiner must have travelled from Aberdeen to Middlesbrough on another vessel or perhaps by rail. I'll see if there are any vessels arriving at Middlesbrough from Aberdeen.

The report in the Aberdeen Weekly news gives James's tee-name - "son of Mr James Cordiner ("Bottles"), Port Henry Road, Peterhead."
Title: Re: Can anyone help find more on this William cordiner drowning
Post by: GR2 on Thursday 30 September 21 17:07 BST (UK)
There are no ships coming directly from Aberdeen to Middlesbrough in the time frame, but he may have changed vessels en route or gone in part by road or rail. The "Tay" arrived at Middlesbrough from Newcastle on 31st March and sailed for Aberdeen on 3rd April, but there is no way of knowing if James was on it.