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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Banks2233 on Friday 01 October 21 09:35 BST (UK)

Title: Samuel Cunliffe
Post by: Banks2233 on Friday 01 October 21 09:35 BST (UK)
Hello,
I am looking for information on Samuel Cunliffe, his parents etc. etc.
Born-Abt 1827 Manchester Married-1853 Adelaide S/A Died- 8/5/1893 Maldon Victoria
I have only found his birth town on one of his childrens birth certificates as stated above.
His marriage certificate came from a S/A State library request.
I havent been able to find any record for Ship passengers coming in.
He married Elizabeth Sutton (London) and between them had 4 children.
Edwin-B 14/09/1854 Adelaide   Emma-B 1856 Tarrengower (Maldon)    Alice-B 1858 Maldon Frank-B1862 Maldon
I should add he is my 2nd great grandfather.
Thankyou for your time.
Jan
Title: Re: Samuel Cunliffe
Post by: BumbleB on Friday 01 October 21 09:54 BST (UK)
A slight possibility -

Samuel - 9th child and 6th son of Henry (Collier) and Anne Cunliffe of Lower Lane, Ashton (in Makerfield) - born 15 November, baptised 19 November 1825 in Winwick

Amended:  Bishop's Transcript just says Winwick, but parish register says Parish of Winwick and Chapelry of Ashton (in Makerfield).

Title: Re: Samuel Cunliffe
Post by: Banks2233 on Friday 01 October 21 10:16 BST (UK)
Hi BumbleB
I should have added it showed on the marriage certificate his age 26, Elizabeth 21
Title: Re: Samuel Cunliffe
Post by: BumbleB on Friday 01 October 21 10:36 BST (UK)
I did realise that the date was a bit out, but I sent it to you so that you have it.

There is a later baptism in the same church but born 21 July, baptised 5 September 1830 - Samuel, 3rd child and 3rd son of William (Farmer) and Anne Cunliffe, Tithe Barn Lane, Ashton.

I'm using Ancestry parish registers and entering "Samuel Cunliffe" - the first one using 1827 +/- 2 years, and the second attempt using 1828 +/- 2 years. 
Title: Re: Samuel Cunliffe
Post by: BumbleB on Friday 01 October 21 10:40 BST (UK)
Just had a different attempt - using Cunliffe (or similar) -

Manchester Cathedral - 11 February 1827

Samuel son of William (Porter) and Jane Cunliff of Manchester
Title: Re: Samuel Cunliffe
Post by: Neale1961 on Friday 01 October 21 10:43 BST (UK)
I am confused by your opening. You say he married in SA and also he married in London.
Also I can find no death for him with the details you give.
can you please clarify?
Title: Re: Samuel Cunliffe
Post by: Banks2233 on Friday 01 October 21 11:00 BST (UK)
I will look into that BumbleB
Doesn’t help there are lots of similar names.
Title: Re: Samuel Cunliffe
Post by: Banks2233 on Friday 01 October 21 11:03 BST (UK)
Hi Neale1961,
Elizabeth’s birth was “London”
They married in the first established church in Adelaide Holy Trinity.
Title: Re: Samuel Cunliffe
Post by: Neale1961 on Friday 01 October 21 11:04 BST (UK)
I can find no death for him with the details you give.
can you please clarify?
Victorian death cert should give family names, etc.
Title: Re: Samuel Cunliffe
Post by: Neale1961 on Friday 01 October 21 11:07 BST (UK)
Shipping arrival “Lord Stanley”
Jan 1852. Arriving Adelaide and Port Phillip
https://prov.vic.gov.au/archive/33FC5616-F96C-11E9-AE98-D185E5E909BF?image=33
Title: Re: Samuel Cunliffe
Post by: Banks2233 on Friday 01 October 21 11:11 BST (UK)
I couldn’t find it either, till I emailed the Maldon historical society and they had the record there. Buried at Maldon cemetery with no marker, only a post stating approximately where he is. This was a gold rush town in the day.
Title: Re: Samuel Cunliffe
Post by: Banks2233 on Friday 01 October 21 11:19 BST (UK)
I did see that record, but I dismissed it. By what I could see he was ticked under child 14 and under, for age.
Title: Re: Samuel Cunliffe
Post by: glenclare on Friday 01 October 21 15:42 BST (UK)
I may be reading the shipping arrival incorrectly, but there appears to be a tick in the box for age 14 and under. That would make Samuel too young to marry in 1853, aged 26.
Title: Re: Samuel Cunliffe
Post by: Banks2233 on Friday 01 October 21 22:48 BST (UK)
Hi glenclare, yes I noticed the same thing and dismissed it.
If he cannot be found coming to Australia through normal channels, what if he came out as part of a crew? Is there a way to explore this??
     
Title: Re: Samuel Cunliffe
Post by: Banks2233 on Saturday 02 October 21 00:27 BST (UK)
I just had a closer look at his marriage certificate, very little information on it, but it stated his rank as SEAMAN age 26.
Title: Re: Samuel Cunliffe
Post by: Neale1961 on Saturday 02 October 21 02:54 BST (UK)
I have been working for a while, piecing things together from the various Cunliffe family records in Australia.
There was a large number from the same family who arrived in Victoria in 1852.
I hope these brief notes make sense.

Marriage 22 Aug 1826
St Mary Abergavenny, Monmouthshire
Groom: James CUNLIFFE, bachelor, from Dean (Lancaster)
Bride: Jane PITCHARD spinster of this this parish - under 21yrs
Witnesses Wm Williams and Mary Colcomb?

James CUNCLIFFE born 1790 Dean Lancaster (bapt 1796)
-   military 3rd Dragoon Guards from 20 June 1808 to 1832
military records here
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C8684592

James CUNLIFFE died 1851
His will is available for free from:
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D60679
(Interesting reading about how the family will emigrate to Australia. Children are named.)

After the father James died, the family came to Australia.
You will see on the above 1852 shipping record “Lord Stanley” that Jane CUNCLIFFE is a widow. All her children who came with her are listed, but Samuel has had a tick placed in the wrong column for age. I think James, Joseph, William and Elizabeth would have been aged younger than 14, so are correctly ticked.

Mother Jane Cunliffe nee Pritchard (widow) married in Melbourne in 1853 to Nicholas Perchard, but she died the following year.
Most of the children can be traced through marriages and deaths in NSW and VIC.

Let me know if you need more help to trace all the children.

I think it should be possible to trace both James Cuncliffe and Jane Pritchard back at least another generation in England and Wales.
Title: Re: Samuel Cunliffe
Post by: Banks2233 on Saturday 02 October 21 03:35 BST (UK)
Hello Neal1969,
You have been busy and it’s greatly appreciated also.
I just didn’t know where to go after finding every possible lead. But I will look into everything you sent me, I’m so excited.
Jan
Title: Re: Samuel Cunliffe
Post by: Neale1961 on Saturday 02 October 21 03:44 BST (UK)
I hope I am on the right track, and have found the correct family :)
Title: Re: Samuel Cunliffe
Post by: Neale1961 on Saturday 02 October 21 06:16 BST (UK)
Don’t get too excited. I don’t think that family is right. I have finally just found them in the 1841 and 1851 census, and Samuel is not old enough to be your guy.
However , the unusual surname and place of original in Lancashire makes me wonder if there is some family connection. I will look some more if I have some time.
Title: Re: Samuel Cunliffe
Post by: Banks2233 on Saturday 02 October 21 07:03 BST (UK)
Oh damn I just sat down to start the research
Title: Re: Samuel Cunliffe
Post by: Banks2233 on Saturday 02 October 21 07:25 BST (UK)
I had a thought,
Samuels eldest son is Edwin or Edward in Welsh. Would he come from Wales??
Title: Re: Samuel Cunliffe
Post by: Neale1961 on Sunday 03 October 21 02:16 BST (UK)
Hi Jan, I haven’t given up on your Samuel yet. He is a puzzle. I have been exploring various possibilities and eliminating some.

This record came up and caught my interest
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KCSY-17H
It comes from the Register of Merchant Seaman’s tickets dates 1845-1854 in the UK archives, but has not been digitised there. (I don’t believe it has anything to do with military service as indexed by FS.)
It appears to be available on FindMyPast. I don’t have access, but maybe someone may help.


There is also an entry for a Samuel Cunliffe on the “Biographical Index of South Australians” on the Genealogy SA site.
https://www.genealogysa.org.au
Again I am not a member and cannot access, but it might be worth investigating.

I also noted:
S.Cunliffe age 30 “gold digger” onboard ship White Swan leaving Adelaide 14 Feb 1855 arriving Melbourne
Title: Re: Samuel Cunliffe
Post by: Neale1961 on Sunday 03 October 21 03:24 BST (UK)
A little item from the newspaper. E.S. Will be Elizabeth Sutton. George Fordham and wife Mary were witnesses at the marriage.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/158094602?searchTerm=Canliffe

NOTE: George Fordham married Mary Sutton 1852 Adelaide. It also looks like the Fordhams went to Maldon to mine.

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/214581649/george-fordham

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/214581591/mary-ann-fordham
Title: Re: Samuel Cunliffe
Post by: mckha489 on Sunday 03 October 21 04:12 BST (UK)
Hi Jan, I haven’t given up on your Samuel yet. He is a puzzle. I have been exploring various possibilities and eliminating some.

This record came up and caught my interest
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KCSY-17H
It comes from the Register of Merchant Seaman’s tickets dates 1845-1854 in the UK archives, but has not been digitised there. (I don’t believe it has anything to do with military service as indexed by FS.)
It appears to be available on FindMyPast. I don’t have access, but maybe someone may help.


ticket no 21005
Samuel Cunliffe
Born Manchester, Lancash. 3 June 1827
5ft 4 1/4 inches tall
auburn hair
Blue Eyes
Fresh Complexion
no marks
first went to sea as an apprentice in 1842
has not served in Foreign service or Royal Navy
when unemployed resides at Liverpool

issued 5 April 1845
Title: Re: Samuel Cunliffe
Post by: Neale1961 on Sunday 03 October 21 04:24 BST (UK)
Thanks mckha489.  :)
Now to find his baptism or in census
Possibly July 1827 Stockport baptism, birth Manchester?
Title: Re: Samuel Cunliffe
Post by: Banks2233 on Sunday 03 October 21 04:26 BST (UK)
Looking very promising
Title: Re: Samuel Cunliffe
Post by: wivenhoe on Sunday 03 October 21 04:54 BST (UK)

"I have only found his birth town on one of his childrens birth certificates as stated above."

Which birth certificate?. Who is the informant, the person who is recording a birthplace for Samuel CUNLIFFE?

From the marriage certificate, 1853, Adelaide, what names do you see for witnesses?.

What church do they marry in?.

Is Samuel recorded as bachelor? Do bride, groom and witnesses sign their names?
Title: Re: Samuel Cunliffe
Post by: Neale1961 on Sunday 03 October 21 04:55 BST (UK)
Seems possible that parents are Robert Cuncliffe (book keeper ) and Esther Dickinson Haywood. The father Robert died in 1836 and perhaps mother remarried or also died early. That is a good reason the join the merchant navy as a teenager.

Jan can you access these birth and marriage records on Anc, or do you need me to transcribe.
Title: Re: Samuel Cunliffe
Post by: Banks2233 on Sunday 03 October 21 05:02 BST (UK)
This is what I received from South Australian State library
Title: Re: Samuel Cunliffe
Post by: Neale1961 on Sunday 03 October 21 05:03 BST (UK)
Robert Cunliffe (when he died ) was agent to the Manchester and Bolton Canal Company, and therefore would have been educated. This possibly explains why his son Samuel was literate.
Title: Re: Samuel Cunliffe
Post by: Banks2233 on Sunday 03 October 21 05:04 BST (UK)
After posting the marriage licence, it looks like Fordams were their witnesses
Title: Re: Samuel Cunliffe
Post by: mckha489 on Sunday 03 October 21 05:05 BST (UK)
Robert was agent to the Manchester and Bolton Canal Company, and therefore would have been educated. This possibly explains why his son Samuel was literate.

and sorry, I forgot to add the information on the Merchant Service ticket - that he can write.
Title: Re: Samuel Cunliffe
Post by: Neale1961 on Sunday 03 October 21 05:05 BST (UK)
This is what I received from South Australian State library
The witnesses to the marriage are the brides sister and her husband. See my previous post. reply 22
Title: Re: Samuel Cunliffe
Post by: Banks2233 on Sunday 03 October 21 05:17 BST (UK)
Sorry I missed it, I cannot keep up with the information
Title: Re: Samuel Cunliffe
Post by: Neale1961 on Sunday 03 October 21 05:19 BST (UK)
I will let you read back over and catch up.  :)
Let me know what records you can’t find.
Title: Re: Samuel Cunliffe
Post by: Neale1961 on Sunday 03 October 21 05:32 BST (UK)
Looks like Samuel got his name from his maternal grandfather. Esther’s parents - Samuel and Margaret.
Title: Re: Samuel Cunliffe
Post by: Banks2233 on Sunday 03 October 21 05:50 BST (UK)
I ended up sending an email to genealogySA, didn’t want to pay a joining fee for a couple of people. I have been adding the names on my ancestry tree, and there’s so much to do there, I don’t mind though. I’ll keep at it, my dog just wants a ball game so I’ll be back in 10
Title: Re: Samuel Cunliffe
Post by: Neale1961 on Sunday 03 October 21 06:25 BST (UK)
In the 1841 census (Kay street, Bolton Le Moor) there is a 15 year old Samuel living in the house of 79year old John Cunliffe. This is perhaps your Samuel under the care of an uncle or grandfather, and before he sets off to sea. I am not sure, but it is the best possible one I could find for that census.

I still can’t find a death for his mother Esther. Only sibling and sister, Esther died in Jan 1836.
Title: Re: Samuel Cunliffe
Post by: Banks2233 on Sunday 03 October 21 06:44 BST (UK)
Yes I found the same, but I did find a death record for his mother, Dec 1890, with Same surname, also had her sister living with her at one stage.
Title: Re: Samuel Cunliffe
Post by: Neale1961 on Monday 04 October 21 01:12 BST (UK)
Interesting that Esther reverted to her maiden name. And also that Samuel did not use his parents names for any of his children.


I would be interested to hear what response you get from Genealogy SA, and if what they have on the Biographical index, is at all useful. I have looked at that site before and wondered about it.


You may already have this 1874 newspaper article (top of last column), but will post here in case.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/18332930?searchTerm=“Samuel%20Cunliffe”
Title: Re: Samuel Cunliffe
Post by: Banks2233 on Monday 04 October 21 01:21 BST (UK)
It is strange, but does happen.
Hopefully SA will get back to me sooner than later.
The information you found was spot on. The Fordhams did follow the Cunliffe’s to the goldfields. They are also mentioned in the Tarrengower Times Newspaper. Having ancestry I was able to find pictures of George and Mary Fordham and some of their children. Sadly nothing yet for Samuel and Elizabeth. I still don’t know how they came out here, either I’m looking in the wrong places or the doctor Kent’s have been lost????
Title: Re: Samuel Cunliffe
Post by: Banks2233 on Monday 04 October 21 01:23 BST (UK)
Sorry, didn’t check the spell check.
“Documents have been lost”
Title: Re: Samuel Cunliffe
Post by: Neale1961 on Monday 04 October 21 01:35 BST (UK)
 I think Samuel probably “jumped ship”, possibly Adelaide. There will be more merchant ship records for him in UK archives, but they are not available easily online. It would be useful to find the name of the merchant ship he was on - records of these arrivals rarely exist in Australia. The ship records are in England.
I speak from experience, as my 2x great grandfather, John, jumped ship from the merchant navy in Sydney in 1848. He was 16, his mother died young and his father had remarried. John wanted to escape his step-mother we think. There were about another 5 crew members who jumped off in Sydney. It was quite a common thing! I have the ships records which I got from Uk archives in Kew.

As for Elizabeth and Mary Sutton- lots more research needed there! :)
Title: Re: Samuel Cunliffe
Post by: Banks2233 on Monday 04 October 21 02:04 BST (UK)
Information here, especially the gold rush times, is quite difficult here. And it seems the quest for gold or gems runs deep in my family, even to this day. As is the sea for fishing and exploring. I’m south of Sydney, surrounded by bush, but with the things going on at present in the world we wish we were a million miles away from everything.
Title: Re: Samuel Cunliffe
Post by: Neale1961 on Monday 04 October 21 03:14 BST (UK)
From Mary Sutton's death cert, her father is noted as William ....

This could be the Sutton's arriving.

“Adelaide Observer” Sat 21 Sep 1850
Shipping Intelligence - ARRIVED.
Sunday, September 15 — The ship Stebonheath, 1030 tons, Sargent, master, from London 1st June, and Plymouth 16th June.
Passengers — For Adelaide and Port Phillip.
Long list of passengers including …….. William Sutton and 2 daughters ……

Note:
There is a William Sutton death in Adelaide in 29 March 1854 – don’t know what age – so may or may not be the father?