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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: recorder on Wednesday 06 October 21 20:59 BST (UK)

Title: Gladys Rose Jones and Lily Gorham
Post by: recorder on Wednesday 06 October 21 20:59 BST (UK)
Any information about these ladies would be welcome. Rose Jones may be hyphenated. Gladys was born in London about 1892 and was a child reciter around 1902. Lily Gorham was born in London about 1880. She may have been a singer (contralto). Sorry there is so little info but someone may be able to help. Thanks.

Recorder
Title: Re: Gladys Rose Jones and Lily Gorham
Post by: Hillhurst on Wednesday 06 October 21 21:05 BST (UK)
Are you looking for info relating to parents, siblings, etc? Or info relating to their singing careers?
Title: Re: Gladys Rose Jones and Lily Gorham
Post by: Hillhurst on Wednesday 06 October 21 21:08 BST (UK)
Quite a few newspaper mentions for Miss Lily Gorham (contralto) circa early 1900s. Same for Gladys Rose Jones (child reciter). Have you checked any of these newspaper blurbs?
Title: Re: Gladys Rose Jones and Lily Gorham
Post by: recorder on Wednesday 06 October 21 21:22 BST (UK)
Hello Hillhurst.  Thanks for your note. Any info is gratefully received. On reflection I would prefer to learn something about their work. I can find nothing to suggest either became famous. If they were professional performers it would be interesting to find where they might have appeared. As a child reciter Gladys would have only a short working life so what became of her?  Where did they live and did they have families? As I say, any scraps would be gratefully received.

Recorder
Title: Re: Gladys Rose Jones and Lily Gorham
Post by: recorder on Wednesday 06 October 21 21:25 BST (UK)
Hello again.  I am not skilled in searches like this.  How can I access the things you mention.
Title: Re: Gladys Rose Jones and Lily Gorham
Post by: Hillhurst on Wednesday 06 October 21 21:54 BST (UK)
Newspapers are on BNA Newspapers site, and also Find My Past. But you'll need a subscription to FindMyPast to view the full newspaper details for each blurb.

BNA Newspapers site: https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/
Note that the OCR technology used by the BNA system will display various words incorrectly/awkwardly.
OCR = Optical Character Recognition.

Here is an example of one of the blurbs, but we can only see a brief tidbit. You'd normally need a subscription or paid credits to view the full blurb.

Dorking and Leatherhead Advertiser
Saturday 08 November 1902
"The admirably rendered songs bv Miss Annie Charman and Miss Lily Gorham were very much appreciated, as also were the mandoline solos and splendid execution of Miss Edith Cottle".

TIP: When searching, use quote marks. Example: "Miss Lily Gorham".
Title: Re: Gladys Rose Jones and Lily Gorham
Post by: Hillhurst on Wednesday 06 October 21 22:01 BST (UK)
Here's a blurb for Gladys Rose Jones:

The Era
Saturday 16 September 1905
"MISS GLADYS ROSE JONES. repeated with due point and emphasis age when the average child is laboriously learning to read occurs to her as but the normal outcome of a natural impulse. the age of seven Gladys made her first public appearance. It was on the ..."

Like I say, OCR technology awkwardly "reads" some newspaper text. Which is also a hinderance when searching for people or places, etc. If OCR has "read" the name (etc) incorrectly, it will effect your search. 
Title: Re: Gladys Rose Jones and Lily Gorham
Post by: Hillhurst on Wednesday 06 October 21 22:20 BST (UK)
Was Gladys born in Paddington? Looks like there's a family tree for her on Ancestry. Do you have an Ancestry subscription to view it?

Looks like Gladys married an actor in 1914:

Gladys Rose-Jones age 22 m Percy Frederick Netherton Luxmore Hockin 10 Dec 1914 St Peter, Paddington
Her father was George Rose-Jones

She died 31 Oct 1938 in London.  Probate granted Liverpool 10 Jan 1939

Title: Re: Gladys Rose Jones and Lily Gorham
Post by: CaroleW on Wednesday 06 October 21 22:42 BST (UK)
What is your connection to them?

There is an 1880 birth on freebmd for a Lily Rose Gorham who appears to have been illegitimate and an 1892 for Gladys Rose Jones mmn Manifold

www.freebmd.org.uk
Title: Re: Gladys Rose Jones and Lily Gorham
Post by: maddys52 on Thursday 07 October 21 01:53 BST (UK)
If you have a library card you may also be able to access British Library Newspapers online (free) from home. I use my Australian National Library card and use their eresources to look up old newspapers.  ;)

A very quick search for " Gladys Rose Jones" shows numerous items between 1903 and 1912.
Title: Re: Gladys Rose Jones and Lily Gorham
Post by: recorder on Thursday 07 October 21 12:13 BST (UK)
Hillhurst & CaroleW & Maddy Thank you for your endeavours on my behalf.  The Era is a positive mine of information, Hillhurst, but how did you get  to the Sept 1905 item for Gladys?  I have no family connection with these ladies, Carole.  My daughter has asked for help with a project she has undertaken. We do not have an Ancestry or Find My Past membership and were using our local library facility prior to lockdown.  Membership may be the way forward. Will try the British library Newspapers on line, Maddy.  Hillhurst has given me the link  The BMD details help to complete the picture so thanks for details. I will pass the good news to my daughter who will, I am sure, be surprised by the info you have managed to unearth. If anything more turns up it will be received gratefully. I will post again later.

Recorder
Title: Re: Gladys Rose Jones and Lily Gorham
Post by: Hillhurst on Thursday 07 October 21 15:23 BST (UK)
Hi Recorder - yes The Era was a wonderful publication for entertainment-related news, particularly the early 20th century. I know there are other pubs like The Era, but their names escape me.

As regards "Miss Lily Gorham" there is also a birth for a Lily Rose Gorham Gorham in Camden c1880.
Father was a doctor. Baptism record lists her forename as Lily Rose Gorham, so parents obviously liked the name Gorham. But no idea if she's "Miss Lily Gorham" (contralto).

Good luck with your research! Both ladies seem like worthy subjects.
Title: Re: Gladys Rose Jones and Lily Gorham
Post by: recorder on Thursday 07 October 21 16:05 BST (UK)
Thanks Hillhurst.
Title: Re: Gladys Rose Jones and Lily Gorham
Post by: Hillhurst on Thursday 07 October 21 20:10 BST (UK)
The Era is a positive mine of information, Hillhurst, but how did you get  to the Sept 1905 item for Gladys?   

I tend to use speech marks/quotes when searching for something/someone in particular. It returns quicker and more accurate results (unless OCR has "mangled" the article's text). So in this instance, I simply used "Miss Gladys Rose Jones" (with speech marks). That was it.  It returned a total of 94 results during the period of 1900-1919 in various newspapers in the UK. By the way, The Stage was the other publication I was thinking of earlier.
Title: Re: Gladys Rose Jones and Lily Gorham
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Thursday 07 October 21 21:03 BST (UK)
Gladys made it to Wales a few times - reciting and also playing roles as young boys

https://newspapers.library.wales/search?range%5Bmin%5D=1804&range%5Bmax%5D=1919&query=%22gladys+rose+jones%22

Title: Re: Gladys Rose Jones and Lily Gorham
Post by: recorder on Sunday 17 October 21 16:48 BST (UK)
Mabel - Forgive the delay in acknowledging your note.  The link has proved very interesting.  Thanks for your help.

Recorder.
Title: Re: Gladys Rose Jones and Lily Gorham
Post by: recorder on Monday 18 October 21 17:20 BST (UK)
Hello again,  -  A visit by my daughter has clarified the search.   She is contributing to a project looking  at Victorian entertainment and a search for various songs etc has been sub-contracted to me.  Having said that the family history of Gladys and Lily was received with great pleasure. I managed to find the words and music for a number of the songs but being out of my depth in computer matters I did not store them in a safe place and lost the lot. With help I was able to find again most of the details but I cannot retrieve a number of bits and some things I could not find in the first place.

I appreciate this is not really a family history matter but if anyone can guide me to the following it would help considerably.

The words and music for a song The Broken Story
Words for recitations 'Matinee hat'    'Lissie   'Our baby'  All recited by Gladys.

Any item would be welcome.

Recorder
Title: Re: Gladys Rose Jones and Lily Gorham
Post by: maddys52 on Monday 18 October 21 21:03 BST (UK)
How very frustrating for you! My son, who works in IT used to have as a screensaver "anything that is not saved will be lost" (and he says important things need 2 or 3 backups in different locations in different media), very true I'm afraid.

There is this poem that was published in Punch on 1 Jan 1898, not sure if it's the "Matinee Hat" you are after.

"In a theatre a merry maid sat
Wearing a marvellous matinee hat.
  The people behind murmured and muttered:
  I will not repeat the language uttered,
'Twas mostly a masculine form of "drat."

Feathers and flow'rs of a wonderful hue
To a monstrous height on that hat there grew.
  The people behind were wild with passion,
  They hated the hat of latest fashion,
Complaining that it quite obscured their view.

When in her programme this merry maid read
A special request to ladies, which said
  The people behind would most gracious feel
  If those in the front would heed their appeal,
She quickly removed that hat from her head.

In a theatre a manager's tact
Proved he could manage as well as could act.
  The people behind no longer vainly
  Strove behind feathers to see more plainly;
And gratefully they acknowledged the fact."
Title: Re: Gladys Rose Jones and Lily Gorham
Post by: MonicaL on Monday 18 October 21 21:10 BST (UK)
And another possibility for The Matinée Hat:

The Ballad of the Matinée Hat

[Parody Austin Dobson\

\\7ICKER-SKIN, intricate, slight,
Glowing like gardens at Kew,
Flowers in a riot of white,

Rose-pink, mauve, yellow and blue ;

Mark all the dainty frou-frou !
Fixture as wide as a mat.

Size that would well cover two,
This is the Matinee Hat !

See how they writhe at the sight,

Longing that they could see through,
Maidens as buttercups bright,

Beauties with heads all askew,

Chaperones, debutants, a few
Baronets, Dukes, who say " Drat ! "

Eager the stage but to view,
This is the Matinee Hat !

Ah, but 'tis far from polite

Spoiling folk's joy, it is true !
Manners, we state, are not right :

What can great managers do ?

What if their patrons withdrew ?


https://archive.org/stream/parodiesimitatio00adamiala/parodiesimitatio00adamiala_djvu.txt

See https://mypoeticside.com/poets/austin-dobson-poems

I have learnt something new reading through other notes and the controversy of the period around 'Matinée Hats'  ;D

Monica
Title: Re: Gladys Rose Jones and Lily Gorham
Post by: maddys52 on Monday 18 October 21 21:14 BST (UK)
There is also this one, published 22 June 1897 in "Fun":

"I'm going to the theatre!"
  Said he with joyous mien.
"I'm going to the theatre,
  To see what can be seen!"

"I've come home from the theatre,"
  Said he with sullen face,
"And I'm dashed if I ever go
  Again inside the place!"

"Oh, was the piece so terrible?"
  We asked in accents dread.
He answered us with such a look!
  And shook his angry head.

"Oh was the tragedy so great
  You could not bear to stay?"
He glared at us again with rage,
  But not a word would say.

We cried "Oh, tell us what you saw
  Was't this or was it that?"
At last, in rage,  he thundered forth
  "I saw a woman's hat!"
Title: Re: Gladys Rose Jones and Lily Gorham
Post by: maddys52 on Monday 18 October 21 21:22 BST (UK)


The words and music for a song The Broken Story


I haven't found the words yet, however have seen a mention of "The Broken Story" composed by Edith COOKE (in a book about female composers c1902) and numerous mentions of performances.
Title: Re: Gladys Rose Jones and Lily Gorham
Post by: MonicaL on Monday 18 October 21 21:39 BST (UK)
Great find, Maddys52  :)

Reference to her and song here https://nla.gov.au/nla.obj-167912535/view?partId=nla.obj-167912543#page/n0/mode/1up

Monica
Title: Re: Gladys Rose Jones and Lily Gorham
Post by: maddys52 on Tuesday 19 October 21 10:40 BST (UK)
I'm not sure what the recitations would have been - poems I guess? There is this small book published called "Our Baby", though I think it's American, in 1876. There is a poem at the end.

https://archive.org/details/ourbaby00clin/mode/2up
Title: Re: Gladys Rose Jones and Lily Gorham
Post by: recorder on Tuesday 19 October 21 11:35 BST (UK)
Thanks to the Matinee Hatters.  I fear I nearly typed Mad Hatters. Searching for one and find three!

Dare I be cheeky and ask if you have had any success with the others?

Maddy, I fear I cannot find Edith Cooke let alone The Broken Story. Nonetheless the composer is a good start.

My daughter will be chuffed with the info you have all found and if she is chuffed then I am double chuffed!!!!!!!!!!!!

Recorder.
Title: Re: Gladys Rose Jones and Lily Gorham
Post by: maddys52 on Tuesday 19 October 21 11:44 BST (UK)
I wish I could find "The Broken Story", just a few references to it. Not on your list, but here is the music to another of Edith COOKE's songs "Two Marionettes"
https://archive.org/details/songsforyounggir00newy/page/14/mode/2up
Title: Re: Gladys Rose Jones and Lily Gorham
Post by: recorder on Tuesday 19 October 21 16:36 BST (UK)
Thank you for all your endeavours. Something will turn up sometime!

Recorder
Title: Re: Gladys Rose Jones and Lily Gorham
Post by: MonicaL on Tuesday 19 October 21 17:50 BST (UK)
Hard to say whether what is being found is right or wrong isn't it.

I found this sheet music for 'Our Baby'  www.flickr.com/photos/carolannesboutique/6231227630/in/photostream/lightbox/ There are two sheets for this.

Beautiful photostream of its time. Main link www.flickr.com/photos/carolannesboutique/

Monica
Title: Re: Gladys Rose Jones and Lily Gorham
Post by: MonicaL on Tuesday 19 October 21 18:32 BST (UK)
From www.madameulalie.org/metropolitan/images/Asthore.pdf
Title: Re: Gladys Rose Jones and Lily Gorham
Post by: maddys52 on Wednesday 20 October 21 01:42 BST (UK)
Oh well done Monica!
Title: Re: Gladys Rose Jones and Lily Gorham
Post by: recorder on Thursday 21 October 21 11:54 BST (UK)
Monica and Maddy and All,  Again I must say sorry for being late acknowledging your posts. I am now at the age when NHS panics seem to occur far to often. Thank you for the Broken Story. I tried for days trying to find it. What is the secret that led to your discovery. My daughter will call again soon to gather in the remaining facts. Thanks to the chatters she will be able to make a valuable contribution to the project.

The ever grateful and amazed Recorder. 
Title: Re: Gladys Rose Jones and Lily Gorham
Post by: MonicaL on Thursday 21 October 21 17:05 BST (UK)
I hope health panic over  :)

I just wanted to add that I cannot see a single reference anywhere to 'Lissie' (apart from a deluge of links to a current singer with that name  ::))

Monica
Title: Re: Gladys Rose Jones and Lily Gorham
Post by: recorder on Saturday 23 October 21 15:00 BST (UK)
Monica - It has been re classified from 'Oh dear' to 'minor problem'. Sigh of relief!!! Thanks for asking.

I think we have reached the end of the road for lissie et al.  It has indeed been an interesting search and I am hoping that the project leader will be able to get these songs played and sung as originally proposed. It would be good if they could find their way to youtube so we can hear the results of our labours.

My thanks to one and all.

Recorder