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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: AndyH81 on Sunday 17 October 21 17:12 BST (UK)

Title: Search birth certificates using mother's first name?
Post by: AndyH81 on Sunday 17 October 21 17:12 BST (UK)
Hi all,

I was just wondering if anyone can think of a way that I might be able to search for a UK birth certificate using the mother's first and last names? The birth would have taken place in the mid 70s, so I can't use the GRO site because those records are missing.

Basically, it is possible my mother had another child prior to my birth. I know the approx. year this would have happened and also the county (assuming she wasn't taken elsewhere in secret). If I do a search on FreeBDM there are, naturally, multiple births from women with the same surname in the region, so the only way of narrowing it down would be to use my mother's first name(s) too.

I would attempt to access her medical records but I know I am not able to do so. The only information we have to suggest this is an old birth record for myself which shows she had 1 prior admission, but we're not sure whether it suggests a birth, miscarriage, or an abortion, so I am trying to do a bit of detective work to see if I can solve the mystery.

Many thanks,
Andy
Title: Re: Search birth certificates using mother's first name?
Post by: BumbleB on Sunday 17 October 21 17:41 BST (UK)
Apologies - are we to assume that you do not have a copy of your own birth certificate?
Title: Re: Search birth certificates using mother's first name?
Post by: JenB on Sunday 17 October 21 17:54 BST (UK)
Apologies - are we to assume that you do not have a copy of your own birth certificate?

I'm confused - what makes you think Andy doesn't have a copy?
Title: Re: Search birth certificates using mother's first name?
Post by: BumbleB on Sunday 17 October 21 17:57 BST (UK)
Urrrrmh!!!  :-X
Title: Re: Search birth certificates using mother's first name?
Post by: Girl Guide on Sunday 17 October 21 18:30 BST (UK)
Are we to assume that your mother was not married when she had this child in the mid 1970s?

When you mention the region, are you referring to a general area or a registration district?
Title: Re: Search birth certificates using mother's first name?
Post by: AndyH81 on Sunday 17 October 21 19:36 BST (UK)
Yes, I have a copy of my own birth certificate - but I'm not sure that has any relevance?

Assuming an older sibling even exists, no, she would not have been married at the time. She and my father met when she was 16, so the child would have been born when she was 14/15, so sometime around '75-'76.

Is there a way to search on a mother's first name as well as her maiden name?
Title: Re: Search birth certificates using mother's first name?
Post by: mckha489 on Sunday 17 October 21 19:40 BST (UK)
Not as far as I am aware.
But if it was an illegitimate birth you will be able to rule out all the births that have a different motherís maiden name.

Which at least might reduce it to a manageable number to investigate
Title: Re: Search birth certificates using mother's first name?
Post by: AndyH81 on Sunday 17 October 21 19:41 BST (UK)
Are we to assume that your mother was not married when she had this child in the mid 1970s?

When you mention the region, are you referring to a general area or a registration district?

So, I know where she was living at the time the pregnancy would have happened - but if it was kept a secret, then I know of two other specific towns which she had connections to which might be the place of birth.

It's a long shot, I know. If I were able to request medical records, it would be easy to know either way... but I'm just trying to think of the next most obvious way to narrow it down.
Title: Re: Search birth certificates using mother's first name?
Post by: AndyH81 on Sunday 17 October 21 19:45 BST (UK)
Not as far as I am aware.
But if it was an illegitimate birth you will be able to rule out all the births that have a different motherís maiden name.

So, I've been searching for births in the areas it could be, using her maiden name as a search feature - but without being able to see first names, I can't think of another way to narrow it down.

I did find one record that would have been around the right time, in the right location, with the right maiden name with the child's name left blank. Would that happen if a baby had perhaps been adopted?
Title: Re: Search birth certificates using mother's first name?
Post by: Girl Guide on Sunday 17 October 21 19:48 BST (UK)
Ok, if you know where she was living, you need to find out which registration district covered where her place of abode was at the time.

That may help you to narrow it down.
Title: Re: Search birth certificates using mother's first name?
Post by: Girl Guide on Sunday 17 October 21 19:52 BST (UK)
Quote
I did find one record that would have been around the right time, in the right location, with the right maiden name with the child's name left blank. Would that happen if a baby had perhaps been adopted?

Sometimes that means that the child died before getting a name.  You can verify that by checking the deaths.

It may have meant that a name hadn't been chosen at the time of registration.
Title: Re: Search birth certificates using mother's first name?
Post by: AndyH81 on Sunday 17 October 21 19:52 BST (UK)
Ok, if you know where she was living, you need to find out which registration district covered where her place of abode was at the time.

That may help you to narrow it down.

Okay, I'll try to figure that out. I've just been searching on town/city on FreeBDM.
Title: Re: Search birth certificates using mother's first name?
Post by: AndyH81 on Sunday 17 October 21 19:54 BST (UK)
Quote
I did find one record that would have been around the right time, in the right location, with the right maiden name with the child's name left blank. Would that happen if a baby had perhaps been adopted?

Sometimes that means that the child died before getting a name.  You can verify that by checking the deaths.

It may have meant that a name hadn't been chosen at the time of registration.

Ah! Okay, that makes sense. I assume that would suggest a stillbirth or miscarriage rather than an abortion?
Title: Re: Search birth certificates using mother's first name?
Post by: mckha489 on Sunday 17 October 21 19:57 BST (UK)
In this image the top and bottom entry are obviously not illegitimate,  but the middle one could be.
(Or the product of a Smith/Smith marriage  :( )

I would be suspicious of entries given no forename, but agree, it might mean a death.
Title: Re: Search birth certificates using mother's first name?
Post by: AndyH81 on Sunday 17 October 21 20:05 BST (UK)
In this image the top and bottom entry are obviously not illegitimate,  but the middle one could be.
(Or the product of a Smith/Smith marriage  :( )

I would be suspicious of entries given no forename, but agree, it might mean a death.

Oh, I see! Because each name is Smith? That would be what happens with an illegitimate birth?

Which, I suppose could happen if they both happened to have the same surname anyways!
Title: Re: Search birth certificates using mother's first name?
Post by: mckha489 on Sunday 17 October 21 20:10 BST (UK)
Yes, but at least it gives you a chance to reduce the numbers to hopefully something manageable (and affordable  ;D)
Title: Re: Search birth certificates using mother's first name?
Post by: AndyH81 on Sunday 17 October 21 20:21 BST (UK)
Yes, but at least it gives you a chance to reduce the numbers to hopefully something manageable (and affordable  ;D)

I'll give it a shot!

I'm not really even interested in meeting possible sibling - assuming there is one - I'd just like to know definitively either way.
Title: Re: Search birth certificates using mother's first name?
Post by: nanny jan on Sunday 17 October 21 20:25 BST (UK)

Ah! Okay, that makes sense. I assume that would suggest a stillbirth or miscarriage rather than an abortion?
[/quote]


Stillbirths have a separate register which is not online. 

Miscarriage or abortion would only be noted in her medical records.
Title: Re: Search birth certificates using mother's first name?
Post by: AndyH81 on Sunday 17 October 21 21:04 BST (UK)
Stillbirths have a separate register which is not online. 

Miscarriage or abortion would only be noted in her medical records.

So I'd likely be looking at either a sibling or a sibling who had died very young then.

Thank you.
Title: Re: Search birth certificates using mother's first name?
Post by: AntonyMMM on Monday 18 October 21 09:44 BST (UK)
So I'd likely be looking at either a sibling or a sibling who had died very young then.

Nothing mentioned so far suggests that any child (if there was one)  died.

You can't search on the mother's first names because that isn't indexed information - all you can do is work out a list of possible entries and obtains certificates for them to see if the details match.
Title: Re: Search birth certificates using mother's first name?
Post by: AndyH81 on Monday 18 October 21 09:54 BST (UK)
So I'd likely be looking at either a sibling or a sibling who had died very young then.

Nothing mentioned so far suggests that any child (if there was one)  died.

You can't search on the mother's first names because that isn't indexed information - all you can do is work out a list of possible entries and obtains certificates for them to see if the details match.

Well, assuming the same surname thing is always right, then there's at least 10 possibilities. Guess I'd better get cracking.

I'm wondering if, back then, would it have been possible for her to use a fake name? I'm picturing some woman showing up at a convent, giving birth, and then running away before giving a name - but that all feels far too Charles Dicken's for the mid-70s.
Title: Re: Search birth certificates using mother's first name?
Post by: AntonyMMM on Monday 18 October 21 10:07 BST (UK)
Anything is possible (including using a false name), but you have to hope that wasn't the case , and probably wouldn't be.

Also  - don't forget that young mothers could sometimes go to a mother and baby home some distance away to have a child, so don't limit your search to the home district.

Note that if you do identify the child, and the entry is marked as "adopted", you won't have access to anything to give you their adopted name.

In the paper indexes (as used on FreeBMD) an illegitimate birth would normally have the indexed surname the same as the mother's maiden name column (doesn't apply to the new GRO index).
Title: Re: Search birth certificates using mother's first name?
Post by: AndyH81 on Monday 18 October 21 11:53 BST (UK)
Anything is possible (including using a false name), but you have to hope that wasn't the case , and probably wouldn't be.

Also  - don't forget that young mothers could sometimes go to a mother and baby home some distance away to have a child, so don't limit your search to the home district.

Note that if you do identify the child, and the entry is marked as "adopted", you won't have access to anything to give you their adopted name.

In the paper indexes (as used on FreeBMD) an illegitimate birth would normally have the indexed surname the same as the mother's maiden name column (doesn't apply to the new GRO index).

At this point, I'm really just trying to figure out if it is even possible. I really need to see the document from my father to establish exactly what might be going on.
Title: Re: Search birth certificates using mother's first name?
Post by: AndyH81 on Monday 18 October 21 11:54 BST (UK)
Incidentally, how could I order a certificate from the GRO for a period in which they do not have data captured? Is that even possible?
Title: Re: Search birth certificates using mother's first name?
Post by: AntonyMMM on Monday 18 October 21 11:59 BST (UK)
They have the data - it just that the register entries for some years haven't been digitised yet and so don't appear in the  on-line index.

Use the reference from FreeBMD (name, district, volume, page)  and order through the GRO website using the "Place an Order" link, or order through the local registration office (who hold the actual registers)
Title: Re: Search birth certificates using mother's first name?
Post by: AndyH81 on Monday 18 October 21 14:08 BST (UK)
Thank you!
Title: Re: Search birth certificates using mother's first name?
Post by: aghadowey on Monday 18 October 21 15:21 BST (UK)
Going back to the original post-
Quote
The only information we have to suggest this is an old birth record for myself which shows she had 1 prior admission, but we're not sure whether it suggests a birth, miscarriage, or an abortion, so I am trying to do a bit of detective work to see if I can solve the mystery.

Since this sort of information wouldn't appear on your birth certificate is this some sort of hospital or medical record pertaining to you?
'Prior admission' could just mean your mother was in hospital before your own birth for any number of medical reasons. It might have been just overnight or for a short period but such an event would have been noted in her records.
Title: Re: Search birth certificates using mother's first name?
Post by: sandiep on Monday 18 October 21 16:51 BST (UK)
I agree with Aghadowey  with my last pregnancy  I had a couple  of prior admissions  for high blood  pressure  seems a more likely  reason for wording
Title: Re: Search birth certificates using mother's first name?
Post by: AndyH81 on Monday 18 October 21 17:32 BST (UK)
I need to see the original document myself to work out what my father is on about. He explained it as being a document that pertained to me - but I might have misunderstood. Whatever he is looking at, he clearly seems to think there was a possibility of another child. That being said - he's not very analytical, so it wouldn't have occurred to him to investigate further (nor would he have pressed the matter with my mother). If he asked and she said no, that would have been the end of it. I, on the other hand, want to know either way.

I'm particularly curious because I have failed to have a DNA match with his cousin, so one of us is clearly not related in a fashion in which we think - so that coupled with this information has made me consider the possibility that he might not be my biological father either. It's all a bit of a mystery.
Title: Re: Search birth certificates using mother's first name?
Post by: Lisajb on Tuesday 19 October 21 09:35 BST (UK)
If this document relates to your own birth - i wonder if anywhere on it it says "gravida 1"? That would refer to a previous birth. If on the other hand it says primigravida, that means a first pregnancy
Title: Re: Search birth certificates using mother's first name?
Post by: AndyH81 on Tuesday 19 October 21 09:50 BST (UK)
If this document relates to your own birth - i wonder if anywhere on it it says "gravida 1"? That would refer to a previous birth. If on the other hand it says primigravida, that means a first pregnancy

I've asked my father to dig out the document. Hopefully it won't take him too long.
Title: Re: Search birth certificates using mother's first name?
Post by: Girl Guide on Tuesday 19 October 21 09:58 BST (UK)
Interesting thought Lisa.  I've never yet seen any birth certificate that indicates what number pregnancy the child was. 

There is certainly nothing on my birth certificate that indicates that I was the result of a third pregnancy.  Neither of my children's birth certificates give that information.
Title: Re: Search birth certificates using mother's first name?
Post by: Lisajb on Tuesday 19 October 21 10:05 BST (UK)
If this document relates to your own birth - i wonder if anywhere on it it says "gravida 1"? That would refer to a previous birth. If on the other hand it says primigravida, that means a first pregnancy

I've asked my father to dig out the document. Hopefully it won't take him too long.

To put it a little better - when i was pregnant with my son, my first child I was a primigravida. A couple of years later, when my daughter came along, i was gravida 1, and so on.

Title: Re: Search birth certificates using mother's first name?
Post by: LizzieL on Tuesday 19 October 21 10:07 BST (UK)
Interesting thought Lisa.  I've never yet seen any birth certificate that indicates what number pregnancy the child was. 

There is certainly nothing on my birth certificate that indicates that I was the result of a third pregnancy.  Neither of my children's birth certificates give that information.

I think OP is talking about a medical record not a birth certificate
Title: Re: Search birth certificates using mother's first name?
Post by: Lisajb on Tuesday 19 October 21 10:09 BST (UK)
Interesting thought Lisa.  I've never yet seen any birth certificate that indicates what number pregnancy the child was. 

There is certainly nothing on my birth certificate that indicates that I was the result of a third pregnancy.  Neither of my children's birth certificates give that information.

I think OP is talking about a medical record not a birth certificate

I am not referring to a birth cert.

Number of oregnancies would be referred to on a medical record.
Title: Re: Search birth certificates using mother's first name?
Post by: Girl Guide on Tuesday 19 October 21 10:13 BST (UK)
Oh yes, ok that would make sense.  Not sure how easy it would be to see medical records especially if you are not the patient.
Title: Re: Search birth certificates using mother's first name?
Post by: AndyH81 on Tuesday 19 October 21 11:07 BST (UK)
I got the sense it was some kind of medical record as opposed to my birth certificate.
Title: Re: Search birth certificates using mother's first name?
Post by: aghadowey on Tuesday 19 October 21 11:46 BST (UK)
U.K. birth certificate would not give medical details regarding ether mother or child, number of previous pregnancies, etc.

Thirty years ago (pre computerised records) I was given a white card (about 6"x8") to be brought to all ante-natal appointments. It recorded name, age, date of birth, number of pregnancy & NI number & possibly due date). At each appointment (midwife, doctor, hospital) was written the date, number of weeks of pregnancy, blood pressure & weight, blood results. If I'd been admitted to hospital (for high blood pressure, bleeding or any other reason) there would have been a notation made at the time.
Title: Re: Search birth certificates using mother's first name?
Post by: nestagj on Tuesday 19 October 21 14:02 BST (UK)
U.K. birth certificate would not give medical details regarding ether mother or child, number of previous pregnancies, etc.

Thirty years ago (pre computerised records) I was given a white card (about 6"x8") to be brought to all ante-natal appointments. It recorded name, age, date of birth, number of pregnancy & NI number & possibly due date). At each appointment (midwife, doctor, hospital) was written the date, number of weeks of pregnancy, blood pressure & weight, blood results. If I'd been admitted to hospital (for high blood pressure, bleeding or any other reason) there would have been a notation made at the time.

My card (early 1980's) was yellow on the outside and white inside and yes had all the information listed above.   I even recall seeing my Mum's card from her pregnancy with me - hers was buff coloured on the outside - I recall quite clearly a notation saying "elderly primagravida" she was 35!! I wish I knew where it went.
Good luck in your search
Nesta
Title: Re: Search birth certificates using mother's first name?
Post by: nestagj on Tuesday 19 October 21 14:04 BST (UK)
If this record the OP has is one of these Maternity cards - I believe it would also detail previous miscarriages or stillbirths.
N
Title: Re: Search birth certificates using mother's first name?
Post by: Girl Guide on Tuesday 19 October 21 14:10 BST (UK)
Quote
I recall quite clearly a notation saying "elderly primagravida" she was 35!!

I can remember being referred to as an elderly primagravida and was less than 35 at the time!

Many women are having babies later in life nowadays, some well past 35 years of age.
Title: Re: Search birth certificates using mother's first name?
Post by: AndyH81 on Tuesday 19 October 21 21:54 BST (UK)
Thanks guys. I think it's a case of waiting to find out what kind of record it is. I'm 40, so I suppose the documents might be quite different in content back then to whatever they are now.
Title: Re: Search birth certificates using mother's first name?
Post by: Dundee on Wednesday 20 October 21 00:15 BST (UK)
......all you can do is work out a list of possible entries and obtains certificates for them to see if the details match.

Don't you have to supply an exact date of birth in your application if the event occurred less than 50 years ago?

Debra  :)
Title: Re: Search birth certificates using mother's first name?
Post by: Ruskie on Wednesday 20 October 21 05:28 BST (UK)
A couple of questions Andy:

If you are concerned that a first cousin is not a DNA match and have questions about your father, have you considered asking him if he would take a DNA test?

It sounds like your mother may be deceased? If so, does she have any close family who may know if she had an earlier pregnancy?

Title: Re: Search birth certificates using mother's first name?
Post by: AndyH81 on Friday 22 October 21 18:51 BST (UK)
A couple of questions Andy:

If you are concerned that a first cousin is not a DNA match and have questions about your father, have you considered asking him if he would take a DNA test?

It sounds like your mother may be deceased? If so, does she have any close family who may know if she had an earlier pregnancy?

My father is taking a DNA test too. If that comes back showing that we are not related, then we will - of course - take an independent paternity test to confirm the results. My 2nd cousin is convinced that my results have either been mixed up or contaminated, but I am not convinced as it seems too convenient that I've matched with lots of people on my mother's side but not my father's. That being said, I did match with one ancestor on my father's side several generations ago and I can't find any evidence to suggest I could also be connected to that ancestor via someone else on my mother's side.

I think something suspicious is going on - I'm just not sure how. I downloaded my GEDCOM file and DNA profile and uploaded to MyHeritage too to see if any different results came back. Indeed, it matched me to a woman who it identified as either my grand-niece OR a cousin once removed. As neither of my sister's have children, I have ruled the niece out as being that relationship - unless, of course, I did have an older sibling I never knew about.

What is interesting me further is that the DNA tests have identified lots of relatives in Ireland. I have contacted some of those individuals to see if they know how we might be related, but none of us can find a connection. In fact, none of us can find any evidence to suggest our families have ever met, let alone married/interbred!! It's all a total mystery.

Consequently, I am doing an additional independent test with MyHeritage to see if that spits out completely different results!!

Yes, my mother died when I was a child. The only people I knew on that side of the family were my aunts, uncles and grandparents. And it wasn't even until all this kicked off that I was able to identify great-grandparents or great-aunts and uncles. I had no idea my maternal grandparents even had siblings!

My father has agreed to ask the eldest of her siblings if she was aware of my mother having a child before me (or a pregnancy).

I feel like it's a Netflix special waiting to unfold, as there seem to be two things that would be independent of each other: 1. The possibility of having an older half-sibling; 2. The possibility that my father and I might not be biologically related either.
Title: Re: Search birth certificates using mother's first name?
Post by: brigidmac on Friday 22 October 21 19:09 BST (UK)
You said My Heritage identified a grand neice or cousin once removed

Surely there are other possibilities at this level .couldnt it be a half cousin half aunt/ uncle  or half neice too .?




Title: Re: Search birth certificates using mother's first name?
Post by: AndyH81 on Friday 22 October 21 22:31 BST (UK)
You said My Heritage identified a grand neice or cousin once removed

Surely there are other possibilities at this level .couldnt it be a half cousin half aunt/ uncle  or half neice too .?

Possibly, although of my known family neither of my siblings have children, so by rights that should rule out any form of nieces/nephews, and I know all of my aunts and uncles, including those who would be 'half' relatives. And I'm also aware of all the divorces and re-marriages at that level, so it seems unlikely I would not be aware of them. It's all very confusing.
Title: Re: Search birth certificates using mother's first name?
Post by: Ruskie on Saturday 23 October 21 01:36 BST (UK)
Let us know how you get on with your fatherís DNA test results, and any other discoveries.  :)
Title: Re: Search birth certificates using mother's first name?
Post by: AndyH81 on Saturday 23 October 21 11:20 BST (UK)
Let us know how you get on with your fatherís DNA test results, and any other discoveries.  :)

I'm expecting his test to show he is not my father, if I am being honest. Although I would, of course, get this confirmed with a legal paternity test. If that test shows that we are father and son, then I'll be shouting down the phone to someone from Ancestry. :D

Although if the Ancestry test shows we are father and son, then I am even more confused because there does not appear to be any possible way that any of us could be closely genetically related to any of those other relatives!! *facepalm*
Title: Re: Search birth certificates using mother's first name?
Post by: Heb66 on Saturday 23 October 21 14:01 BST (UK)
Hi,
Why would you need a legal paternity test if your dad appears as a full parental match on Ancestry ?
I have reunited over a 100 adults with a parent whether long lost or through adoption as a volunteer search angel but not one has suggested a legal paternity test after getting a confirmed result through ancestry ?
Sorry to ask but was just wondering ................
Helen.
Title: Re: Search birth certificates using mother's first name?
Post by: AndyH81 on Saturday 23 October 21 18:35 BST (UK)
Hi,
Why would you need a legal paternity test if your dad appears as a full parental match on Ancestry ?
I have reunited over a 100 adults with a parent whether long lost or through adoption as a volunteer search angel but not one has suggested a legal paternity test after getting a confirmed result through ancestry ?
Sorry to ask but was just wondering ................
Helen.

I wouldn't, I would only do that if it shows we aren't.
Title: Re: Search birth certificates using mother's first name?
Post by: AndyH81 on Thursday 25 November 21 14:24 GMT (UK)
Well, dad's DNA results came back. He matched with people on his side, but not to me. So, I am now thinking we need a legal paternity test to verify what's going on.

It's really confusing because I look so much like him and others on my paternal side. We're trying to think of any logical reason that we wouldn't match other than the obvious?
Title: Re: Search birth certificates using mother's first name?
Post by: Cell on Saturday 27 November 21 03:27 GMT (UK)
.
Title: Re: Search birth certificates using mother's first name?
Post by: TerriG on Saturday 27 November 21 18:25 GMT (UK)
I"m a bit late to this thread, but was wondering if it might be a good idea to put it on the DNA board, where there will be people who can help you analyse your unknown matches, and maybe get some clues as to your birth father's identity.

Good luck with your search, and I hope this doesn't affect your relationship with your dad too much.
Title: Re: Search birth certificates using mother's first name?
Post by: brigidmac on Sunday 28 November 21 16:20 GMT (UK)
thanks for getting back to us .good luck in your search .
+with coming to terms with this .
Title: Re: Search birth certificates using mother's first name?
Post by: AndyH81 on Sunday 05 December 21 23:14 GMT (UK)
It doesn't really affect my relationship with my dad; it doesn't change the events of my life. He and I are relatively estranged anyway, so we rarely see each other.

I was thinking I might post something in the DNA queries about this because I have a logic question RE: ethnicity estimates, and I am not sure if I am correct in my assumption. Basically, my father's ethnicity estimate ranges between 0 - 4% Irish ancestry, whereas mine was between 20 - 40%. Now, I know - for sure - that no one on my mother's side of the family is Irish - including the new extended family members I have discovered since.

So, my logical thinking was that there is no way my ethnicity could be greater than his unless my mother or her family were Irish (which they aren't), so my current working assumption is that my biological father (assuming no monumental cock up in the DNA processing) would have to be Irish - or at very least have a lot of Irish ancestry himself.

Which is interesting, as I have matched to lots of previously unknown relations in Ireland, seemingly all from one or two families. I could be way off base, but my suspicion is that my biological father is a member of that family, or very closely related to them.

Unfortunately with my mother being dead, there's not really anyone to interrogate. And I'm turning 40 very shortly, so my dad is in his 60s and my mother would be in her late 50s were she still here, so - depending on the age of mystery man - time might be running rather short in finding out who he is. It might have to be a mystery that goes unsolved.

I'd be really curious to find out who he is. Not so we can have a relationship, but just so I can hear about what happened and try to make sense of it. Right now, I guess I am feeling really sad for my father and my sisters, and quite angry at my mum and mystery man. Though I suppose without them I wouldn't be here, so...
Title: Re: Search birth certificates using mother's first name?
Post by: Ruskie on Monday 06 December 21 06:36 GMT (UK)
Thanks for the update Andy. Though you had your suspicions and it must difficult, this situation is not that unusual.  :-\

I agree with the suggestion to post on the dna board, and maybe give a link to this thread for detailed background.

I think the general consensus is that ethnicity estimates are OK as a guide, but donít take them as gospel.





Title: Re: Search birth certificates using mother's first name?
Post by: AndyH81 on Monday 06 December 21 09:50 GMT (UK)
Thanks for the update Andy. Though you had your suspicions and it must difficult, this situation is not that unusual.  :-\

I agree with the suggestion to post on the dna board, and maybe give a link to this thread for detailed background.

I think the general consensus is that ethnicity estimates are OK as a guide, but donít take them as gospel.

Thanks. I will do so later today... I appreciate they're estimates, but to me the only logical way for me to have a higher percentage of something than 1 parent is if the other parent has massively more of that ethnic group present in their DNA. Otherwise you'd presumably expect this to be watered down by a generation.

We're still going to have a legal paternity test, but I know what I am expecting it to say! Fortunately I happen to be in therapy at the moment as it is, so at least there's that!!  ;D
Title: Re: Search birth certificates using mother's first name?
Post by: brigidmac on Monday 06 December 21 15:32 GMT (UK)
Oh dear . you said you feel angry with your mum and Mr mystery. I don't know if it would make you feel better or worse but have you considered it may have been a non consensual relationship.

Not likely to find the truth now unless  one of your mother's friends or relatives knows .

Be kind to yourself 🙂

Title: Re: Search birth certificates using mother's first name?
Post by: AndyH81 on Monday 06 December 21 16:30 GMT (UK)
Oh dear . you said you feel angry with your mum and Mr mystery. I don't know if it would make you feel better or worse but have you considered it may have been a non consensual relationship.

Not likely to find the truth now unless  one of your mother's friends or relatives knows .

Be kind to yourself 🙂

Yes, I've considered all sorts of horrible scenarios in my head.

From the information divulged from my father, I get the impression that - if anything - it's likely to have been a brief fling or one-off mistake.

Supposedly she used to be addicted to chatting to both men and women on the old CB radio and every now and then she would invite them round for a chat or a coffee, which used to infuriate my dad and ultimately lead to the breakdown of their marriage. From that, I imagine it might have been the result of some poor choices.
Title: Re: Search birth certificates using mother's first name?
Post by: Rosinish on Monday 06 December 21 18:40 GMT (UK)
In this image the top and bottom entry are obviously not illegitimate,  but the middle one could be.
(Or the product of a Smith/Smith marriage  :( )

If you take a look at the above image posted by mckha (Reply #13), the middle entry has number 2555/S

This is a good example as I believe an entry with the added 'S' indicates an adoption.


Annie
Title: Re: Search birth certificates using mother's first name?
Post by: Ruskie on Tuesday 07 December 21 04:38 GMT (UK)
Iím not sure you will need the paternity test in addition to the dna test. Someone with more knowledge should be able to advise.

Rather than look at the ethnicity I suggest looking at the highest cm percentage matches you have and contact them to see how much they can tell you about their families.

It is probably not advisable to jump in feet first at this stage and admit you are searching for your biological father, but rather tiptoe round the edges to get as much information from them as you can. Some people are reluctant to accept that their ancestors may have produced children with other partners, so you might find they clamp up - a softly softly approach might yield results.  :)

I think Annie asked on your other thread how many cms you share with your highest matches - I agree that contacting them is the best way forward.  :)
Title: Re: Search birth certificates using mother's first name?
Post by: AndyH81 on Tuesday 07 December 21 11:01 GMT (UK)
Iím not sure you will need the paternity test in addition to the dna test. Someone with more knowledge should be able to advise.

The reason I feel I need one is because I do match to a few more distant relatives (3rd/4th cousins) that would have to be on my father's side. I've gone over everything I can find and so far as I can tell, I couldn't be related to them any other way - which only deepens this mystery for me.

I'm afraid without being schooled in genetics, looking at the centimorgans isn't going to be particularly useful for me. I know who the closest matches are from the results:

I have one match who was suggested as either a great niece (which is impossible based on what I currently know), 1st cousin once removed, or a 2nd cousin. We share 7.7% of our DNA (543.2 cM), but that doesn't really tell me a huge amount because I have no knowledge other than I would get roughly 50% from each parent. :/

What I do know is that she is searching for her father too and also happens to be related to the same family in Ireland that I have my mysterious matches to.

Maybe I'll post that on the DNA post too. Maybe someone can help me there because I've no idea what I am really looking for! :(
Title: Re: Search birth certificates using mother's first name?
Post by: dawnsh on Tuesday 07 December 21 16:35 GMT (UK)
In this image the top and bottom entry are obviously not illegitimate,  but the middle one could be.
(Or the product of a Smith/Smith marriage  :( )

If you take a look at the above image posted by mckha (Reply #13), the middle entry has number 2555/S

This is a good example as I believe an entry with the added 'S' indicates an adoption.


Annie

The addition of a /s after the entry number does not signify an adoption. It means it is a supplementary entry.

See 13m here

https://www.freebmd.org.uk/vol_faq.html#13m

There is no way you can link entries in the GRO birth index with entries in the GRO adopted childrens index unless you know the names before and after adoption.