England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Derbyshire => Topic started by: DollyB on Monday 18 October 21 09:21 BST (UK)

Title: Maria Tym(m) b.???? Castleton
Post by: DollyB on Monday 18 October 21 09:21 BST (UK)
I have a Maria Tym of Castleton marrying a Henricus Nall 14 February 1719 Castleton.  However the only Maria/Mary Tym I can find was bapt. 5 Aug 1711 Castleton father Johannes Tym, mother Sarah Hawkesworth (married 1708).   Her bapt. 1711 would have her aged 7 years when marrying Henry.  I think not.  I have searched ad nauseam through the parish records, FindMyPast, Family Search etc. for a bapt. more around the 1698 time-frame which would make Maria about 21 when marrying Henry in 1719.  I think I need to let go of this one.  Am I missing something?  Any ideas, comments all welcome.
Title: Re: Maria Tym(m) b.???? Castleton
Post by: goldie61 on Monday 18 October 21 23:25 BST (UK)
There are various avenues you could try.

First, do you know for a fact she was born in Castleton as you say in your first sentence?
It is not necessarily so just because she got married there.
Have you seen the actual entry in the register, or is there an application for a marriage licence that places her there?

Secondly, remember these were the baptisms recorded, and not the births. Usually babies were baptised pretty soon after birth, but not always. Sometimes they could be a few months or even years old.

Thirdly, there ARE Tym/Tymm/Tymme families in the Castleton registers in that period.
It may be her baptism was missed for some reason.
For example, a Robert and Ellen Tym baptised at least 3 daughters there - in 1690, 1693, and 1696.
You could try and find Robert's marriage, see if there are gaps in the baptisms of their children, or baptisms of any other children nearby.

Fourthly, I found these children of Henry Nall and Maria at Castleton - Robert in 1721, Henry 1723, Maria 1725, Matthew 1727, and Martha in 1730. Have you found any others? I would have expected a child before the one in 1721. Sometimes the wife returned to her home for the birth of her first child. Perhaps somewhere other than Castleton?

Fifthly, have you traced Henry Nall's parents? Are any of the children named after them? It's a good possibility, as they name a son Henry and a daughter Maria, that the names of their other children are also family names.

And lastly, have you looked at wills? These can be a great source of information.
There are several Tymm wills on findmypast (Derbyshire came under the Diocese of Lichfield. The wills from there are now at Staffordshire Record Office, but are on findmypast).
I can't see one for Robert Tym - he seems to have died in 1744 in Castleton, but if you can find his birth, there may be one for his father, who may name his grandchildren. There are quite a few Tymm wills on there.
The other wills to look at are the Nall ones. If you know Henry's father, and the date of his death, you could look for that one.
Depending on how much you want to find her, it's often worth looking at the wills of any other possibly members of the family - bequests can be made to daughters in law, nieces, granddaughters etc etc. Bachelor uncles and spinster aunts were often good at leaving bequests to a wide range of family members.
Title: Re: Maria Tym(m) b.???? Castleton
Post by: garstonite on Tuesday 19 October 21 07:49 BST (UK)
only you can decide if you believe someone elses tree
Maria Tym who married Henricus Nall
John Tym 1681-1752
Sarah Hawksworth - b 1686
Maria had 5 siblings

looking at the parents births - I would say Maria was born 1702/3 ??   may be wrong .. ??? but it is possible Maria was baptised aged 9 - many Ag Lab ( farm workers ) moved around the county and only had children baptised when they could afford to ...
tree owner has her born in Castleton
Title: Re: Maria Tym(m) b.???? Castleton
Post by: DollyB on Tuesday 19 October 21 08:40 BST (UK)
Thanks goldie61.   I have seen Maria Tym's entry in the Castleton pr's. 1711 along with her father(?) Johannes 1681.  Her mother (?) Sarah Hawkesworth was bapt. Longford 10 Aug. 1687.  Sarah and Johannes were married by licence 17 April 1708 Castleton with their first child Nicholas born 1708.  I can't see that they are this Maria's parents.    Apart from wills I have just about covered most of what you suggest.  And I do know Henry Nall's parents and grandparents although there are a multitude of Henry's in Castleton.  And some very well used names within the Nall's such as Robert and Matthew, John, also Judith.  I realise the baptisms are just that, baptisms, but a 13 year gap between being born and baptised seemed a little far fetched.  I simply cannot find a Maria Tym/Tymm/Timm/Time anywhere around the 1698 +- although I will give your suggestion about Robert and Ellen Tym a try.  No Ellen's feature in my Nall's.  And thank you for your suggestion re wills.     
Title: Re: Maria Tym(m) b.???? Castleton
Post by: DollyB on Tuesday 19 October 21 08:53 BST (UK)
Hi garstonite.....Maria's parents (?) didn't marry until 1708 by licence, their first child Nicholas being born a few months later in 1708, then "Maria" 1711, Nathaniel 1718 and Samuel 1721.  Even if she were born 1702/3 it would make her only 16 when married and their was no licence involved.  I've spent way too many hours on Maria and it's time I put her to bed for a while and come back with fresh eyes.  I notice you say 5 siblings......can you give me the names of the other two seeing as I only have three?  Could lead somewhere.   Thanks so much. 
Title: Re: Maria Tym(m) b.???? Castleton
Post by: DollyB on Tuesday 19 October 21 08:56 BST (UK)
Garstonite......just used your link, thank you.
Title: Re: Maria Tym(m) b.???? Castleton
Post by: garstonite on Tuesday 19 October 21 09:00 BST (UK)
all 5 are lads - did you notice -

has Maria as a sibling of Nathaniel - but only her death ??

M Nicholas Tym 1708-
M Micah Tym 1728-
F Maria Tym †ca 1775
M John Tym 1716-
M Samuel Tym 1721-
A query here - 1708 Nicholas - next is John 1716 - that is a LONG time between births ??  would have thought at least 2 more born in those 8 years ??
Title: Re: Maria Tym(m) b.???? Castleton
Post by: DollyB on Wednesday 20 October 21 07:31 BST (UK)
I put a guesstimate bapt. of 1698 hoping something might crop up.  It's got me stumped.  Most trees with this family have a birth/bapt. of 1711 but that is simply wrong as it would make her 8 when she married Henry.  Doing my head in.  Going to let this go for a time.  Thank you for your efforts.