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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Andyc3876 on Monday 15 November 21 10:02 GMT (UK)

Title: Can't find a birth
Post by: Andyc3876 on Monday 15 November 21 10:02 GMT (UK)
Hi All,
I have a date of birth for a relative in the 1939 register, it has been updated in 1950, so I guess it is correct. The only problem is I can't find any records of this relative with that date of birth, I have full access on Ancestry. Any ideas what my next steps should be?
Title: Re: Can't find a birth
Post by: BumbleB on Monday 15 November 21 10:11 GMT (UK)
Unfortunately there are a number of 1939 entries where the year appears to be incorrect for one reason or another.  I would just search for the name and see what comes up.  :-\
Title: Re: Can't find a birth
Post by: nanny jan on Monday 15 November 21 10:19 GMT (UK)
My grandpa gave an incorrect date of birth on 1939 register.....wrong date/month/year.  He was very surprised when he qualified for a pension....he was older than he thought he was.

Have you searched for a baptism record?  That might give more accurate details but  I have 3 date of birth records for a great aunt;  her birth certificate, her baptism entry and her death certificate ......all show slightly different dates.  ::)
Title: Re: Can't find a birth
Post by: Andyc3876 on Monday 15 November 21 10:33 GMT (UK)
Thanks, I 'stupidly' assumed that the 1939 register would be reliable, especially as it had been corrected. I'll keep trying :)
Title: Re: Can't find a birth
Post by: Dundee on Monday 15 November 21 12:09 GMT (UK)
Don't search for a birth on Ancestry, use both FreeBDM and the GRO indexes (pre 1934) for mother's maiden surname.

https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/indexes_search.asp

Debra  :)
Title: Re: Can't find a birth
Post by: Jebber on Monday 15 November 21 13:29 GMT (UK)
Thanks, I 'stupidly' assumed that the 1939 register would be reliable, especially as it had been corrected. I'll keep trying :)

Because of data protection the transcribers never saw the complete entry, the  Register was transcribed in vertical columns rather than horizontally, then reassembled, so itís not unusual for some of the dates to be out. As with any transcription one has to allow for errors. The entries were not corrected as such, just additional information added for changes of name on marriage etc.
Title: Re: Can't find a birth
Post by: Andyc3876 on Monday 15 November 21 13:57 GMT (UK)
Thank you all again! This is all really helpful as I am very new to family research  :)
Title: Re: Can't find a birth
Post by: BumbleB on Monday 15 November 21 14:10 GMT (UK)
Assuming that the person you are looking for is no longer alive, then perhaps we could assist you, if you give us a name and an idea of location.  Most of us are "up" for a bit of sleuthing! 
Title: Re: Can't find a birth
Post by: Andyc3876 on Monday 15 November 21 14:28 GMT (UK)
That would be fab, yes she passed away I think 1970. So the info I have is she was Jessie Woods and was 34 in 1937, she lived in Manchester at this time and I thought I had found her in 1939 register as Jessie Woods, born 26/05/1902. It says she was married but was living with someone called smith who was a widow. I think this is her as it is in the right area, she had previously had a child out of wedlock, so possibly lied about the marital status. This would then fit with her marrying the said William smith after the war. It then seems she went on to marry Clifford Minshall. I could have the wrong person, but this is the only person where the documented facts fit what I know of the family history.
The problem is I can then not find a birth record that fits and so I'm struggling to find her parents (my great grand parents). So anything anyone can tell me would be brilliant!
Thanks in advance :)
Title: Re: Can't find a birth
Post by: amondg on Monday 15 November 21 15:59 GMT (UK)
FreeBMD
The Jessie Minshall who died 1970 registered Bolton has a DOB as 26 May 1902
Title: Re: Can't find a birth
Post by: Andyc3876 on Monday 15 November 21 16:06 GMT (UK)
Fab thank you! That confirms may theory, but still not sure why I can't seem to match a birth record.
Title: Re: Can't find a birth
Post by: BumbleB on Monday 15 November 21 16:12 GMT (UK)
I used FreeBMD to look for the William Smith/Jessie Woods marriage and found it in 1946 in the Barton Registration District.  There is a ? against Jessie's name and it would appear that Jessie Woods had another surname = Tonge.  I then looked for a marriage between Jessie Tonge and found an entry in December quarter 1924 in Bolton Registration District between Jessie Tonge and Clarence P Woods.  I can't readily see a death for Clarence.

Title: Re: Can't find a birth
Post by: Andyc3876 on Monday 15 November 21 16:18 GMT (UK)
Ah, now that might start to make some sense, I'll have a dig, thank you again!
Title: Re: Can't find a birth
Post by: BumbleB on Monday 15 November 21 16:21 GMT (UK)
And Jessie Tonge was born 26 May 1902, baptised 6 July 1902 at St George the Martyr, Bolton - daughter of Joseph (Collier) and Elizabeth, 63 Willow's Lane.

Title: Re: Can't find a birth
Post by: amondg on Monday 15 November 21 16:21 GMT (UK)
She was born Jessie Tonge daughter of Joseph and Elizabeth 26 May 1902 baptized 6 July 1902 at St George the Martyr.
She married Clarence P. Woods 1924, you will need to find out if and when he died. She married William Smith 1946 and then Clifford Minshall 1962.

The Freebmd entry for her marriage to William Smith 1946 references her maiden name of Tonge.

If you click on it, the entry is made twice once under Jessie Woods and again under Jessie Tonge.
Title: Re: Can't find a birth
Post by: amondg on Monday 15 November 21 16:22 GMT (UK)
Lines crossed sorry Bumbleb
Title: Re: Can't find a birth
Post by: BumbleB on Monday 15 November 21 16:23 GMT (UK)
No problem, at least we confirmed our findings.  ;D
Title: Re: Can't find a birth
Post by: BumbleB on Monday 15 November 21 16:32 GMT (UK)
Looking for marriage of Joseph Tonge and Elizabeth ????  - September quarter 1901, Bolton RD - Joseph Tonge and Elizabeth Hannah or Elizabeth Ellen Mather.

Birth registration June quarter 1902 - Bolton - GRO gives mother's maiden name as Hannah for Jessie.

Title: Re: Can't find a birth
Post by: confusion on Monday 15 November 21 16:35 GMT (UK)
Clarence Partington Woods was born 29 April 1901 Bolton, died Crow Lane, Ramsbottom, Lancs on 14 Oct 1977.

Title: Re: Can't find a birth
Post by: johnhood on Monday 15 November 21 16:37 GMT (UK)
Info only

Surname    First name(s)        District    Vol    Page
Births Jun 1901 
WOODS    Clarence Partington        Bolton    8c   493    
Marriages Dec 1924   
Woods    Clarence P    Tonge    Bolton    8c   533   
Marriages Mar 1944   
WOODS    Clarence P    Parker    Bolton    8c   468    
Surname    First name(s)        District    Vol    Page
Deaths Dec 1977   
WOODS    CLARENCE PARTINGTON    29AP1901    BURY    38   505      

John
Title: Re: Can't find a birth
Post by: johnhood on Monday 15 November 21 16:43 GMT (UK)
Clarence appears on 1939 war register with 2 sons, eldest born 1926 with mmn Tonge, the other born 1929 with mmn TONG

John
Title: Re: Can't find a birth
Post by: amondg on Monday 15 November 21 16:53 GMT (UK)
Joseph Tonge and Elizabeth also had
William Donnon 1901 died 1904 mmn Hannah
Sylvia 1905  mmn Hannah
William Donnon 1907  mmn Hannah

There is another child Alice born 21 March 1900 (mmn Jolley) the baptism says she is of Joseph and Elizabeth
perhaps she was registered under a different christian name

Title: Re: Can't find a birth
Post by: johnhood on Monday 15 November 21 17:04 GMT (UK)
As William Smith married Jessie in 1946 Barton but was seemingly apart from Clarence in 1939 there are possibly 2 children born prior to their marriage.

Births Sep 1937 
Smith (female, named removed - possibly still alive)    Tonge    Barton    8c   762

Births Dec 1943
Smith (female, named removed - possibly still alive)   Tonge    Barton    8c   765

John
Title: Re: Can't find a birth
Post by: johnhood on Monday 15 November 21 18:38 GMT (UK)
Quote :There is another child Alice born 21 March 1900 (mmn Jolley) the baptism says she is of Joseph and Elizabeth
perhaps she was registered under a different christian name

Think she is th daughter of Peter Tonge and Elizabeth Jolley who married 1899 Bolton, they appear with Alice in 1901 census.

John