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Research in Other Countries => Europe => Topic started by: goldie61 on Saturday 20 November 21 21:21 GMT (UK)

Title: Help searching for French wives
Post by: goldie61 on Saturday 20 November 21 21:21 GMT (UK)
Thanks to a 463 million addition of French records on My Heritage recently, I have been able to break down a brick wall of 40 years for my 5x great grandfather, and trace him back another four generations, which has been amazing.
Unfortunately, all the spouses of these men  have not been so easy.
They would seem to be just as shadowy as many women in English records, and French spelling is just as variable as English spelling when it comes to a scribe writing down what he thinks he has heard.

They are:
1.  Marie Catherine Danhier/Danhiez.  At her marriage in 1767, she is said to be 33 years old.  Her father was André Danhier. Unfortunately her mother’s name is unreadable in the parish register of  Montreuil sur mer, Pas de Calais, Haute France.
I have a transcript of the Montreuil bmds, and the name Danhier only appears that once. It sounds as if they did not come from this town.
2. Anne Giraudot/Geradot. There is a dispensation for her marriage 1735, where she is given as being 15 years old. Her father was Charles Giraudot, and her mother Anne Marie Duvivier. This dispensation was at a court in Paris, and the family may have been from there, in which case this may be a lost cause, as most Paris records were destroyed in a fire in the late 1800s. I do know Anne Marie Duvivier was born back in Montreuil sur mer in 1689.
3. Marie Marguerite Rabbatté. She married in 1714  in Montreuil. There are no ages or parents names given in the register. A Jean Rabaté signs as a witness.
Marie’s sister Jeanne Catherine, married in 1716, and in her marriage record it says her father was Jean Rabatté, and her mother Catherine Lamie.
There are just a handful of ‘Rabatté’ names in the Montreuil transcription list, none earlier than Marie Marguerite’s marriage in 1714, so again, it looks as though the family were not from here.

I can’t find anything on My Heritage that fits for these women.
The other site that has a lot of French records is geneanet.org.
This site allows you to search for free, but tantalizingly many records, including any 'soundex' variations of spelling of names, are then only viewable on Premium subscription.
Would there be anyone with a Premium subscription who could have a quick look for these women, to see if it is worth my while paying a subscription to get at any pertinent records?
I would be very grateful for any assistance in trying to track down these women.
Thank you.
Title: Re: Help searching for French wives
Post by: manukarik on Saturday 20 November 21 23:25 GMT (UK)
Will have a look tomorrow, as just off to bed. Quick reply to make it easier for me to find your post tomorrow.
Title: Re: Help searching for French wives
Post by: manukarik on Sunday 21 November 21 10:59 GMT (UK)
This is going to be some hunt! For this period the entries will be in Parish registers and are not indexed. As you feel the families moved, this will be a lot of work trawling through Parish Registers for many different parishes.  There are a lot of different Danhier entries coming up for different towns or communes in the Nord département as well as the French speaking part of Belgium. The dates mostly don't seem to match though.

I will keep an eye out, but this will probably be a very long job!
Title: Re: Help searching for French wives
Post by: goldie61 on Sunday 21 November 21 20:06 GMT (UK)
Thanks for looking at this manukarik.
It sounds as though there are no obvious leads to these women, and as you say, it will be a huge job, which I am not expecting you to try and undertake! Please don't spend any time on it. I'm sure you have  better things to do!
As I have waited 40 years to find the lead in figure in these French records, and have found 4 more generations back from him, I am perfectly happy with those discoveries.
No doubt more records will be indexed and put on line in the future, and these missing wives will come to light.
Many thanks for looking anyway.

Title: Re: Help searching for French wives
Post by: jayaygee on Sunday 21 November 21 23:02 GMT (UK)
Looking again at the index to the Montreuil-sur-mer parish registers, I noticed the burial of Jean Baptiste RABATE on 28 July 1731 and the indication "invalide".  This led me to search the Hôtel des Invalides database and I found Jean Rabaté.  If you search here with just the name Rabaté, up he comes:

http://www.hoteldesinvalides.org/format_liste.php

A possible lead.  And it may be a coincidence that Marie Marguerite BERTOLLE, fille de Claude et Marie Marguertie née Rabaté also married a soldier...or not.  More food for thought.
Title: Re: Help searching for French wives
Post by: goldie61 on Monday 22 November 21 00:42 GMT (UK)
That's fantastic jayaygee!
What a find!
What a font of information.

As ever, it throws up more questions of course. Sorry.

So the date he was received at the Hotel des Invalides was 23 June 1691. I guess that was because of his injury.  At age 28, he must have been born about 1663. I had estimated his daughter Marie Marguerite to be born about 1690/95, so maybe he married after he left the hospital.
Then he is taken in again in 1713? or just left the army at that date? - by which time he would have been 50 years old.

Do you know what 'At the Detachment' at Montreuil means? By 1731 he would have been 68 years old. Surely not still in the army 'on detachment'. He must have had his family with him. Marie Marguerite married Claude in 1714 in Montreuil, and the godmother of their first child in 1714 was Jeanne Catherine Beauregard.

His name is given as Jean Rabate dit Beauregard from the Hotel des Invalides database, which solves a big mystery.
The baptism of Marie Jeanne Bertolle in 1714, gives the father as Claude and the mother as Marie Beauregard! I couldn't see why this name was given in the register. Now that's cleared up.
I'm surmising the 'dit' is like 'otherwise known as' (even on the translated page of the Hotel des Invalides into English, it still just says 'dit').
So would Beauregard have been his mother's name perhaps?

Many thanks indeed for finding this jayaygee
Title: Re: Help searching for French wives
Post by: goldie61 on Monday 22 November 21 08:40 GMT (UK)
I have looked during the day at the registers for Fieulaine as being given as where Jean Baptiste Rabate came from.
As his daughter Marie Marguerite was married in 1714, I checked, frame by frame, between 1685 and 1700. It must be a very small places, some years there were only half a dozen pages for the whole year. I couldn't see any trace of any Rabate or Beauregard names.
I see there are a large number of churches in St Quentin - the big town a few miles away.
That may have to wait for another day (or lockdown!).

From the baptisms of Claude Bertolle and Marie Margueritte Rabate's children it looks as though Marie Marguerite had two or three sisters. All in the Montreuil registers.
Antoinette Rabatté signs the baptism of Antoinette Francoise Bertolle 1720.
Francoise Antoinette Rabaté signs the baptism of Charles Francois Bertolle in 1717.
Marie Jeanne Bertolle was baptised 1714, father Claude, mother Marie Beauregard. Godmother Jeanne Catherine Beauregard.

There are no parents mentioned in the marriage of Marie Marguerite in 1714, although a Jean Rabate signs the register.
Francoisse Antoinette married in 1723. Her mother is given as Catherine Lamie.
Jeanne Catherine married in 1716. Her father given as Jean Rabatte, and her mother as Catherine Lamie.

Bingo!
Title: Re: Help searching for French wives
Post by: jayaygee on Monday 22 November 21 14:38 GMT (UK)
I'm no expert on military records, but I agree he left the army in 1713. I don't know if he returned to the Invalides in Paris - it sounds as if he might have done, but then went to Montreuil. I do know that "au détachement" means that he was an out-pensioner of the Invalides just like a lot of Chelsea Pensioners in the UK.  There might be a little more information in the military archives in Vincennes, though I know there isn't a lot on ordinary soldiers.

"Beauregard" would be his nom de guerre (dictionary translation of "nom de guerre"!), but why he chose it I don't know. Anyway it seems to be tying things together, so I'm glad it's of help.
Title: Re: Help searching for French wives
Post by: jayaygee on Monday 22 November 21 17:06 GMT (UK)
Thanks to Généabank, I have found reference to a marriage of Anthoine RABATTE of Fieulaine at Montigny-en-Arrouaise on 28 February 1691.  He is the son of another Anthoine and Marie BRAUSSAR? (the transcriber's question mark).  Unfortunately, there don't appear to be others of the name in the early Fieulaine registers as you found.
Title: Re: Help searching for French wives
Post by: manukarik on Monday 22 November 21 18:26 GMT (UK)
Thanks to Généabank, I have found reference to a marriage of Anthoine RABATTE of Fieulaine at Montigny-en-Arrouaise on 28 February 1691.  He is the son of another Anthoine and Marie BRAUSSAR? (the transcriber's question mark).  Unfortunately, there don't appear to be others of the name in the early Fieulaine registers as you found.

Interesting… Geneanet has Anthoine Rabatté marrying Marie Prévost on 28 February 1691 in Montigny-en-Arrouaise, Aisne.  Prévost is a family name and from the St Quentin / Haucourt / Malincourt area. They were Huguenots though. Maybe we're distantly related!
Title: Re: Help searching for French wives
Post by: garstonite on Tuesday 23 November 21 07:05 GMT (UK)
Marie Catherine Danhier/Danhiez.  At her marriage in 1767, she is said to be 33 years old.  Her father was André Danhier. Unfortunately her mother’s name is unreadable in the parish register of  Montreuil sur mer, Pas de Calais, Haute France.
.........................
have a trawl through these
https://en.geneanet.org/fonds/individus/?exact_day=&exact_month=&exact_year=&ignore_each_patronyme=&ignore_each_prenom=&size=10&type_periode=between&sexe=&nom=danhiez&ignore_each_patronyme=&prenom=andre&prenom_operateur=or&ignore_each_prenom=&place__0__=&zonegeo__0__=France&country__0__=FRA&region__0__=&subregion__0__=&place__1__=&zonegeo__1__=&country__1__=&region__1__=&subregion__1__=&place__2__=&zonegeo__2__=&country__2__=&region__2__=&subregion__2__=&place__3__=&zonegeo__3__=&country__3__=&region__3__=&subregion__3__=&place__4__=&zonegeo__4__=&country__4__=&region__4__=&subregion__4__=&type_periode=between&from=1720&to=1750&exact_month=&exact_day=&exact_year=&go=1
Title: Re: Help searching for French wives
Post by: joger on Tuesday 23 November 21 08:05 GMT (UK)
Can you give he names of the husbands of the 3 women, and the parishes where they married (several churches in Montreuil sur mer)?
Title: Re: Help searching for French wives
Post by: goldie61 on Tuesday 23 November 21 09:19 GMT (UK)
Thanks to Généabank, I have found reference to a marriage of Anthoine RABATTE of Fieulaine at Montigny-en-Arrouaise on 28 February 1691.  He is the son of another Anthoine and Marie BRAUSSAR? (the transcriber's question mark).  Unfortunately, there don't appear to be others of the name in the early Fieulaine registers as you found.

Interesting… Geneanet has Anthoine Rabatté marrying Marie Prévost on 28 February 1691 in Montigny-en-Arrouaise, Aisne.  Prévost is a family name and from the St Quentin / Haucourt / Malincourt area. They were Huguenots though. Maybe we're distantly related!

I don't think it's Prevost manukarik.
I've seen the entry, and I can understand why it's been transcribed as different things by different people.
From the entries in the Fieulaine registers where she is also mentioned, it looks more like Hansar or Hausar.
Title: Re: Help searching for French wives
Post by: goldie61 on Tuesday 23 November 21 09:21 GMT (UK)
I'm no expert on military records, but I agree he left the army in 1713. I don't know if he returned to the Invalides in Paris - it sounds as if he might have done, but then went to Montreuil. I do know that "au détachement" means that he was an out-pensioner of the Invalides just like a lot of Chelsea Pensioners in the UK.  There might be a little more information in the military archives in Vincennes, though I know there isn't a lot on ordinary soldiers.

"Beauregard" would be his nom de guerre (dictionary translation of "nom de guerre"!), but why he chose it I don't know. Anyway it seems to be tying things together, so I'm glad it's of help.

Thanks for all this jayaygee.
Why did they use a 'nom de guerre'? In case they were caught by the enemy?
Title: Re: Help searching for French wives
Post by: goldie61 on Tuesday 23 November 21 09:28 GMT (UK)
I went back to the very  beginning of the film for Fieulaine. The registers start in 1669, but there are quite a few gaps and pages missing, and the 17th Century handwriting is not easy to make out in some places.

Over the next few years. Antoine Rabate appears a few times. Sometimes the name is spelt Rabaté, and sometimes Rebouté. The same name for his wife is mentioned, so it would seem the name was spelt differently depending on who was compling the register each time. Infact there seems to be two Antoines at one point, both baptising children on the same year(different wives). Not unusual where the elder one is having the last of his children, and the younger one just starting his family.

There also appears Jean Rebouté a couple of times.
A son of his, Quentin,  was married in 1677.
There is no baptism for Quentin - he, and the Jean Rabaté, father of Marie Marguerite who married Claude Berolle, would have been born before the start of this register.
This Jean Rebouté, the father, was buried in 1684.

Besides Antoine and Jean, there is this another one who crops up a few times.
Is it Adrien?

I’ve attached a couple of clips.
Firstly , the marriage of Quentin in 1677. Can anybody make out the name of his wife - ‘Barbe du Bois(?), Jean’s occupation, and the name of his wife Marguerite ? ? .
Adrien is also mentioned here as the godfather - does it say ‘son frere’? If it is, whose brother?

And secondly, the burial of Francois Rebouté in 1669, son of Adrien(?) Occupation?

Even if there is no evidence to say which of these was  the father of Jean Rabaté the soldier who died in 1731 at Montreuil, the family were certainly grounded there in the middle of the 1600s.

There will be more clips to decipher if you can bear with me!
Many thanks indeed
Title: Re: Help searching for French wives
Post by: goldie61 on Tuesday 23 November 21 09:34 GMT (UK)
Marie Catherine Danhier/Danhiez.  At her marriage in 1767, she is said to be 33 years old.  Her father was André Danhier. Unfortunately her mother’s name is unreadable in the parish register of  Montreuil sur mer, Pas de Calais, Haute France.
.........................
have a trawl through these
https://en.geneanet.org/fonds/individus/?exact_day=&exact_month=&exact_year=&ignore_each_patronyme=&ignore_each_prenom=&size=10&type_periode=between&sexe=&nom=danhiez&ignore_each_patronyme=&prenom=andre&prenom_operateur=or&ignore_each_prenom=&place__0__=&zonegeo__0__=France&country__0__=FRA&region__0__=&subregion__0__=&place__1__=&zonegeo__1__=&country__1__=&region__1__=&subregion__1__=&place__2__=&zonegeo__2__=&country__2__=&region__2__=&subregion__2__=&place__3__=&zonegeo__3__=&country__3__=&region__3__=&subregion__3__=&place__4__=&zonegeo__4__=&country__4__=&region__4__=&subregion__4__=&type_periode=between&from=1720&to=1750&exact_month=&exact_day=&exact_year=&go=1

Thanks garstonite. I think I've trawled though most of these!  ;)
Title: Re: Help searching for French wives
Post by: joger on Tuesday 23 November 21 11:32 GMT (UK)
26 January Marriage Quentin Rebouté  : "tisserand"= weaver, 21 , son of Jean and Marguerite ? (need to decipher this)
and Barbe Du Bois ,38 . Were present Jean Rebouté  (groom's father) and Adrien rebouté ( grooms's brother), day laborer, Michel Dumont cousin of the bride and Jacques ?


Second photo:
burial of François Rebouté son of Adrien and marie Guiton, or Quiton? his wife.

https://gw.geneanet.org/lilianevilain?lang=fr&p=jean&n=reboute
Title: Re: Help searching for French wives
Post by: Zefiro on Tuesday 23 November 21 16:36 GMT (UK)
First clip
I took joger's transcription as a start, and tried to fill in the missing words.
26 January Marriage
between Quentin Rebouté, weaver, 21 , son of Jean, tailor, and Marguerite du Chemin?
and Barbe Du Bois, widow, 38 .
Were present Jean Rebouté (groom's father) and Adrien Rebouté ( groom's brother), day laborer, Michel Dumont (cousin of the bride) and Jacque Gorriet?, clerk,
Title: Re: Help searching for French wives
Post by: joger on Tuesday 23 November 21 16:48 GMT (UK)
I agree it could be "du chemin".👍
Title: Re: Help searching for French wives
Post by: Zefiro on Tuesday 23 November 21 16:48 GMT (UK)
Second clip
8 October Burial
Françoie Rebouté son of Adrien, day laborer, and Marie Quiton his wife.
Title: Re: Help searching for French wives
Post by: goldie61 on Tuesday 23 November 21 20:42 GMT (UK)
Thanks very much Zefiro and joger.
Can you give me the actual word in French for 'tailor' they use here - I can see it's not 'tailleur'. Some other, older, term perhaps.
Also the term for 'day labourer' - "mano..... campagnon?"

Title: Re: Help searching for French wives
Post by: Zefiro on Tuesday 23 November 21 21:15 GMT (UK)
Thanks very much Zefiro and joger.
Can you give me the actual word in French for 'tailor' they use here - I can see it's not 'tailleur'. Some other, older, term perhaps.
Also the term for 'day labourer' - "mano..... camp....."?

manouvrier : day labourer
cousturier (modern French couturier): tailor
tisserand compagnon : weaver who has completed his apprenticeship and who works for a master before becoming a master himself.
Title: Re: Help searching for French wives
Post by: goldie61 on Tuesday 23 November 21 21:26 GMT (UK)
Brilliant! Thanks Zefiro  :)
Title: Re: Help searching for French wives
Post by: goldie61 on Tuesday 23 November 21 22:02 GMT (UK)
I have apology for manukarik.
I have been going over all this Rabate family trying to get them into generations. and see how they all fit together (drawing a diagram always helps!).
I've realised the Antoine married in 1691 at Montigne was the son of Antoine and Marthe - she of the name that has been transcribed in a number of ways. Antoine, the son, was indeed marrying Marie Prevost, daughter of Francis Prevost. I hadn't got them straight in my head.
Sorry manukarik.  :-\

I think Antoine the elder was the brother of my ancestor Jean. Both children, along with Quentin and Adrien, of a Jean senior, but as the registers don't start until after what would have been their births, it can only be a theory.
Title: Re: Help searching for French wives
Post by: goldie61 on Wednesday 24 November 21 01:16 GMT (UK)
I'd be grateful if someone could fill in the blanks here, and indeed correct anything I have got wrong.

Le deuxiesm iour de Janvier a été enterré
dans la cimetier de Ceane(?) Adrien
?    ? decedé la premier
iour du ? mois de mort subit
et one assisté en Cem? Jean Rebouté
^cousturier^ son Cousin et Marguerit ?
sa fille


I've seen that word after cemetery before. Perhaps they didn't have a burial yard at the church in Fieulaine. It must have been a very small place.

Thanks very much
Title: Re: Help searching for French wives
Post by: goldie61 on Wednesday 24 November 21 01:32 GMT (UK)
And following on with another one  (just about finished now!)

Le cinquiesm de novembre a été baptisé per
moy Curé marie marguerit lam? fille de nicolae
lam? manouvrier et de Marguerite rebouté son pere
et mere né le quatorsiem du dit mois parrein
Jean rebouté ----------- marrein marie lam?


This is really just missing the surname of the child and father.
I know what I think it might be, but I'd like an unbiased opinion.
Marguerite Reboute was the daughter of Adrien, probably the brother of Jean.

And what about that word crossed out after Jean Reboute's name?
Sometimes it's more interesting to find out what was written and then needed to be crossed out!
The Jean Reboute seen before in these clips died in 1685. As this is 1690, it's not him.
The Jean who I think was his son, was already in the army by 1690.
Can anybody make it out? Perhaps it's 'cousturier' again as was always written after Jean senior's name, and then realised this wasn't him and crossed out?
Thank you so much
Title: Re: Help searching for French wives
Post by: joger on Wednesday 24 November 21 07:16 GMT (UK)
Could be Lambre or Cambre ,
ses pere et mere ( not "son pere et mere")
.mort subite

Adrien François? chirurgien ?
Title: Re: Help searching for French wives
Post by: joger on Wednesday 24 November 21 07:24 GMT (UK)
The name of the village : I decipher  Ceane or Coane but there is no such place .

Eglise de C..., cimetiere de C... in the registers of Fieulaine, should be on Fieulaine's parish.
Title: Re: Help searching for French wives
Post by: Zefiro on Wednesday 24 November 21 19:45 GMT (UK)
First one: very doubtful of Pemery, but I can't give you anything better.
Le deuxiesme iour de Janvier a esté enterré
en la cimetiere de Ceane Adrien
Pemery chirurgien decedé le premier
iour du mesme mois de morte subite
et ont assisté au convoy Jean Reboutté
^cousturier^ son Cousin et Marguerite Pemery
sa fille

On the second day of January has been buried ... died suddenly on the first of the same month...
attended the funeral convoy
Title: Re: Help searching for French wives
Post by: Zefiro on Wednesday 24 November 21 20:04 GMT (UK)
Le cinquieme de novembre a été baptisé par
moy Curé Marie Marguerite Lambet fille de Nicolas
Lambet manouvrier et de Marguerite Rebouté les pere
et mere, né le quatriesme du dit mois parrein
Jean Rebouté mulquinier marreine Marie Lambet

the crosses out word is mulquinier: Weaver making batiste and linen fabrics; The one who takes care of the preparations and the trade of the most beautiful threads, particularly those which are suitable for the manufacture of lace
https://www.vieuxmetiers.org/metier_old.htm#mulquinier

I corrected your mistake regarding DoB: you wrote quatorzième (14th), but meant quatrième (4th). Not a lot of babies get baptized in the womb, 9 days prior to the birth ;D
Title: Re: Help searching for French wives
Post by: goldie61 on Wednesday 24 November 21 20:04 GMT (UK)
Thanks very much Zefiro and joger.

Do you know if the term 'cousin' was used as a wider term for a male relative at this time?
I know in England it could mean virtually any male relative, as well as an actual cousin as we would think of now.
For example, the surgeon's wife may have been Jean Reboute'a sister, so her husband would have been Jean's brother in law, but referred to here as 'cousin'?

Added: Posts crossed just now Zephiro.
Thanks for the second one, and correcting my mistake. This French transcribing is all new to me!
I wonder why that occupation was written and then crossed out? Interesting to ponder.
Title: Re: Help searching for French wives
Post by: manukarik on Wednesday 24 November 21 21:31 GMT (UK)
Could Ceane be a phonetic of saint? I've never seen this before but might make more sense? Can't find any local church dedicated to Saint Adrien though…
Title: Re: Help searching for French wives
Post by: goldie61 on Wednesday 24 November 21 21:36 GMT (UK)
Could Ceane be a phonetic of saint? I've never seen this before but might make more sense? Can't find any local church dedicated to Saint Adrien though…

I had wondered that manukarik, but the 'Adrien' here is the first name of M Pemery, surgeon.
As I say, it crops up quite often, with just 'Ceane', which is intriguing. The church at Fieulaine was St Nicholas if I remember correctly.
Title: Re: Help searching for French wives
Post by: goldie61 on Wednesday 24 November 21 21:40 GMT (UK)
I found the marriage of Nicolas Lamb? and Marguerite Reboute.
Do you think it's still 'Lambet'?

Le de? d’octobre a été celebré mariage en
l’eglise de Ceane par moy Curé entre Nicolas lambe
compagnon a agé de vingt quarter ans Joinssane(?) de les dr?
fils de defunct Claude Lambet manouvrier de de?
marie frauquet(?) sa femme, et
Marguerite rebouté a agé de vingt deux
ans fille de Adrien rebouté manouvrier
& de Marie quinton sa femme present Pierre(?) Cauderey
mulquinier Cousin du dit Nicolas Lambet Jean Villin
laboureur son maister ledit Adrien rebouté pere de la ditte
Marguerite rebouté & la ditte marie quinton sa mere.   


It's spilt over two pages in the register.

Many thanks
Title: Re: Help searching for French wives
Post by: manukarik on Wednesday 24 November 21 21:40 GMT (UK)
Could Ceane be a phonetic of saint? I've never seen this before but might make more sense? Can't find any local church dedicated to Saint Adrien though…

I had wondered that manukarik, but the 'Adrien' here is the first name of M Pemery, surgeon.
As I say, it crops up quite often, with just 'Ceane', which is intriguing. The church at Fieulaine was St Nicholas if I remember correctly.

You're right about St Nicolas…
Title: Re: Help searching for French wives
Post by: jayaygee on Wednesday 24 November 21 22:07 GMT (UK)
Could it simply be "céans" = ici même (here) ? Not sure how it was used at the time.
Title: Re: Help searching for French wives
Post by: Zefiro on Wednesday 24 November 21 22:22 GMT (UK)
I found the marriage of Nicolas Lamb? and Marguerite Reboute.
Do you think it's still 'Lambet'?

It's very difficult to decide whether the ending is -er or -et, because it's written the same way.
This leaves us with 2 possible names: Lambet and  Lamber. The latter could be a phonetically version of Lambert, a common surname. I don't know if the first is a surname.
No time to check this now, time for bed ;)

This French transcribing is all new to me!
You're doing very well for a non experienced reader!
Title: Re: Help searching for French wives
Post by: goldie61 on Wednesday 24 November 21 22:32 GMT (UK)
Could it simply be "céans" = ici même (here) ? Not sure how it was used at the time.

Very interesting indeed jayaygee.
Title: Re: Help searching for French wives
Post by: goldie61 on Thursday 25 November 21 05:35 GMT (UK)

This French transcribing is all new to me!
You're doing very well for a non experienced reader!


But I have done many, many English wills, not to mention Scottish wills  and Sasines (land transfer deeds), which were horrendous! It wasn't just the tiny, tiny squashed writing (the scribes had to pay for their own ledgers apparently, so they squeezed in as much as possible), and the old handwriting script, but also the particularly old Scots words used - vary, very different to the modern Scottish language and English.
All good to give the old brain cells a good work out!
Title: Re: Help searching for French wives
Post by: joger on Thursday 25 November 21 07:37 GMT (UK)
I doubt it is céans . I t would rather be " de cette paroisse = of this parish" if the curate meant that.

ADDED:
Mea culpa : I asked on a paleography forum  and the answer is : église de céans ( of Fieulaine).
Title: Re: Help searching for French wives
Post by: goldie61 on Thursday 25 November 21 19:47 GMT (UK)
I doubt it is céans . I t would rather be " de cette paroisse = of this parish" if the curate meant that.

ADDED:
Mea culpa : I asked on a paleography forum  and the answer is : église de céans ( of Fieulaine).

Thank you for doing that joger.
So is Ceans  an old name for Fieulaine then, or does it mean something like 'here'?
Title: Re: Help searching for French wives
Post by: joger on Friday 26 November 21 07:31 GMT (UK)
Céans is an old way of saying "here".
Title: Re: Help searching for French wives
Post by: goldie61 on Friday 26 November 21 07:54 GMT (UK)
Céans is an old way of saying "here".

Thanks joger