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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Carlow => Topic started by: markova21 on Wednesday 24 November 21 19:21 GMT (UK)
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My g.g. grandfather Patrick Brien, born in 1824 in Munny, Kilcormac Kings County, married Anne Dunne, from Munny. He had been a soldier in the EIC. Also listed in 1875, 4 years before his death, as being fined for allowing 2 asses to wander on the road in Munny, for which he was fined. However they were married in 1863 at the RC Church of The Assumption in Carlow Town. Gives Patrick's occupation as coal merchant. Isn't that a bit far to be moving to live just to sell coal? I know it's definitely the right people, as it states his wife Anne Dunne was from Mooney, meaning Munny. So i'm just wondering if before he changed jobs and started working as a coal merchant, if the East India Company's army were ever stationed in or near Carlow Town?
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No is the answer, but if he was serving with HEIC in the late 1850's it's likely that his regiment was absorbed into the British Army following the Mutiny.
Can I ask how you know that he served with HEIC?
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Can I ask how you know that he served with HEIC?
Here's Patrick Brien's death record in 1879 at Money townland.
Occupation - Army Pensioner - East India Company's service.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1879/06516/4876785.pdf
https://www.townlands.ie/offaly/ballyboy/ballyboy/derrinboy/money/
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Yes, this is the correct record for Patrick Brien.
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Looking at the marriage entry it gives the address for both parties as Coal Market which is a street in Carlow town .Its now called Kennedy street .
I wonder perhaps is this where you got the coal merchant from ?
The address given for his parents looks like Black????? Kildare to me (Blackswood near Prosperous ?)
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000634430#page/25/mode/1up
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Looking at the marriage entry it gives the address for both parties as Coal Market which is a street in Carlow town .Its now called Kennedy street .
I wonder perhaps is this where you got the coal merchant from ?
The address given for his parents looks like Black????? Kildare to me (Blackswood near Prosperous ?)
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000634430#page/25/mode/1up
Hello. Many thanks for that info on Coal Market being in fact the name of a street. I would never have guessed that.
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http://www.igp-web.com/Carlow/Coal_Market.htm
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Looking at the marriage entry it gives the address for both parties as Coal Market which is a street in Carlow town .Its now called Kennedy street .
GeoHive National Townland and Historical Map Viewer
Historic 25" map (1897-1913)
Coal Market south of St Mary's Church
https://arcg.is/i4PKO0
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Looking at the marriage entry it gives the address for both parties as Coal Market which is a street in Carlow town .Its now called Kennedy street .
I wonder perhaps is this where you got the coal merchant from ?
The address given for his parents looks like Black????? Kildare to me (Blackswood near Prosperous ?)
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000634430#page/25/mode/1up
Occupations weren't stated in this marriage register.
Notice that there was a dispensation for the marriage. The reason is in the final column on the opposite page - "Vagi" Latin for someone moving around, meaning that they weren't residents of the parish.
Were Patrick's children born in Ireland? Birth registrations 1864 onwards will have father's residence & occupation.
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Son Lawrence born in Money in August 1865. Father's occupation "pensioner":
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1865/03562/2311925.pdf
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Patrick Brien receiving a pension at Frankford in 1878, ex "depot Artillery"
https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=GBM%2FWO22%2F212%2F00006&parentid=GBM%2FWO22%2F212%2F00006%2F0253249
Another one, with his signature (usually he just made a mark):
https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=GBM%2FWO22%2F212%2F00118&parentid=GBM%2FWO22%2F212%2F00118%2F0254893
A possible discharge record: Patrick Brien born Wexford circa 1822, joined the East India Company's Bengal Artillery in 1842 and served 19 years in India. Discharged in 1862, intending to reside in Co Kildare.
https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=GBM%2FWO97%2F1310%2F072%2F001&parentid=GBM%2FWO97%2F1310%2F724769
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Comparing the signature of the Bengal Artillery soldier in 1862 with that of the Frankford pensioner in 1878, it looks to be the same man:
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Looking at the marriage entry it gives the address for both parties as Coal Market which is a street in Carlow town .Its now called Kennedy street .
I wonder perhaps is this where you got the coal merchant from ?
The address given for his parents looks like Black????? Kildare to me (Blackswood near Prosperous ?)
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000634430#page/25/mode/1up
Occupations weren't stated in this marriage register.
Notice that there was a dispensation for the marriage. The reason is in the final column on the opposite page - "Vagi" Latin for someone moving around, meaning that they weren't residents of the parish.
Were Patrick's children born in Ireland? Birth registrations 1864 onwards will have father's residence & occupation.
Vagi was the term used for tinkers.
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There are very extensive records of the East India Company in England.
That is where I would look.
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Looking at the marriage entry it gives the address for both parties as Coal Market which is a street in Carlow town .Its now called Kennedy street .
GeoHive National Townland and Historical Map Viewer
Historic 25" map (1897-1913)
Coal Market south of St Mary's Church
https://arcg.is/i4PKO0
Updated link showing Coal Market-
MapGenie 25 Inch - ITM (1897-1913) in BaseMap Gallery
https://arcg.is/0ayXeb0