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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: Greaves on Thursday 02 December 21 14:46 GMT (UK)
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I am trying to trace a death, but I am being hindered by not knowing the correct name. On the following extract from the 1901 census, I can make out the following:
Annie Bellinger ??? ?? 30 laundry
Elizabeth Bellinger Daughter 14
William Bellinger Son 13
James Bellinger Son 5
J?? Son 2
I am not clear about Annie's marital status. Is she the "head" or "Wid"? Is it "W" or "M".
Even more problematically I am not sure of the name of the youngest child. Ancestry and FindMyPast differ on their interpretations and neither is convincing. I have tried looking up a birth at the appropriate time, but have not been lucky. Annie's maiden name was MUNDAY. I also know thanks to the 1911 census that this particular child had died, but once again I cannot find an appropriate death between 1901 and 1911. If you want to look at the original 1901 record it is located at RG13 485 21 33. To my untrained eye, I keep seeing female names, even though the child is clearly defined as male!
As always any help greatly appreciated
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Where did you get the mmn of Munday from?
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From the GRO records of the birth of their children.
Elizabeth MUNDAY - illegitimate Q4 1885
Arthur William BELLINGER - legitimate Q2 1887
The father was Arthur Joseph BELLINGER. For a fuller explanation see my post yesterday in the thread concerning the wives of William Albert Bellinger. I have only recently discovered that Annie MUNDAY married both of the Bellinger brothers, Arthur and William.
I started by trying to track down Arthur Joseph Bellinger. Now that I know he married Annie Munday in 1886, I was hoping to track him by researching his children. In the 1911 census, Annie states that they had been married for 24 years, had 5 children, with four still being alive. Arthur doesn't appear on either the 1891, 1901 or 1911 censuses for some reason. Military? Imprisoned? Who knows!
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There are births with mmn Manklow.
E.g
James 1898 - Manklow
Frederick 1901 March quarter mmn Manklow
And then
Frederick 1899 June quarter mmn Munday
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Don't think it is the MANKLOW births, as there is one quarter with births for BELLINGER with both MUNDAY and MANKLOW as separate entries.
I can't find the entry now, but I know I saw it when searching earlier.
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Greaves, as an aside from this post and your other post re Frederick Jewell/Joel you are probably aware that Frederick's mother Emily Jane Jewell married a Joseph Bellinger/Bellanger on the 10.6.1854 in Siddington.
John
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Possibly children from the marriage of Clara Manklow and John Samuel Bellinger.
So going back to your query, it looks like ‘Judri’ as you will know. Which child was born 1898/9? I can only see Frederick. :-\
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Yes I know all about Emily Sarah JEWELL/JOEL. I also know that she abandoned Joseph BELLENGER in c1877 to run off to London with one James PARSONS and her younger children. In subsequent years they used the names PARSONS and BERRY, their sons used BELLINGER (var sp), BERRY, PARSONS and even BERRINGTON. Indeed it was under the name BERRINGTON that Arthur married Annie MUNDAY, the give away is that whenever one of the sons married - and some did it more than once - the witnesses were always James and Emily Sarah, using either PARSONS or BERRY surnames.
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There were five children: Elizabeth, (Arthur) William, James, Judri and Frederick.
1891 features Elizabeth (5) and William (3).
1901 features Elizabeth (14), William (13), James (5) and Judri (2)
1911 features William (22), James (15) and Frederick (10)
There is a note on the 1911 return saying Elizabeth is away from home, so the dead child must be Judri.
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I know this family is complicated with numerous changes of name. With much help from people on this forum, I have slowly unravelled their story. There are some juicy and entertaining court appearances to be found under the various names if you trawl FindMyPast. Although their crimes were minor, they were numerous and might well explain the various name changes. I know, for instance, that after Emily Sarah abandoned Joseph Bellenger, he was summonsed and ordered to make monthly payments to clear her debt to the owner of a local shoe shop.
There are now three really big brick walls remaining, plus numerous small ones. The three biggies are:
(1) What happened to Arthur Joseph after his marriage to Annie MUNDAY in December 1886? He doesn't appear on the 1891, 1901 or 1911 censuses. By 1918 Annie is living with his brother William Albert, though they don't marry until 1931.
(2) What happened to Emily Sarah's first child Frederick Lisbert JEWELL/JOEL, who was brought up by his maternal grandparents (John Jewell and Caroline Allen) and in 1871 was in Aldershot with the 1st Battalion of the King's Own Regiment (private 1698).
(3) Who was James PARSONS? I can find nothing about him before 1877 when he and Emily Sarah got together, nor can I find out fro sure what happened to him after Emily Sarah's death in Stratton in 1901. There is a possible death in Wandsworth in 1908, but there is no proof that it is the correct person.
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I'd have thought "Judri" was Frederick - aged 2 in April 1901.
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But the 1911 census states 5 children from the marriage, with four surviving.
So if Judri was Frederick, who was the fifth child?
As far as I can see, the name on the 1901 census begins with a J, compare to the James above. I don't see how Judri can be a misspelling of Frederick, Freddie or even Fred.
Ancestry thinks Judri is Judie!
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Fredri.
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As far as I can see, the name on the 1901 census begins with a J, compare to the James above. I don't see how Judri can be a misspelling of Frederick, Freddie or even Fred.
The 1901 census books are transcribed from the household returns. It's possibly a mistranscription by the enumerator.
Otherwise, where is Frederick in 1901?
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I know how the returns are composed. If Judri is Freddie, then where is the fifth child mentioned in 1911 who has presumably died?
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Fredri. would make sense, but still leaves open the problem of the missing fifth child.
I'm encouraged that some progress is being made.
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There is an air force service record for a Frederick Bellinger which contains the following information: Birth 19 Feb 1899 Wandsworth
Attestation ( to army) 1916 Air Force 1918
Marriage in Oxford 6 May 1918
Wife's address in Oxford 6 Charles Street.
Could this be your Frederick?
William
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It could well be. I came across the same record a few days ago when searching, but was unable to verify the connection. Often in such cases, the NOK box is helpful, but not in this particular case.
The biggest problem with this family is the disappearance of Arthur Joseph - the husband/father - from all records. Yet according to the 1911 census, he and Annie have been together for 24 years and had five children.
I have sent for a couple of birth certificates, one from the beginning for Elizabeth and one from the end for Frederick. I am hoping these will confirm whether or not Arthur was the father of all the offspring.
I'm still not sure of Annie's marital status as reported on the 1901 census. Is it an "M" for married or a "W" for widowed?
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I would say she is described as ‘M’ for married. If you look back and forth on the census pages, there is a rather bold ‘W’ for one woman but others are ‘Wid’.
In 1911 she describes herself as ‘ married’ but that doesn’t mean they are together.
Birth certificates might have A J as father but she might have just given his name.
Hopefully, the later one might give his occupation which might help to trace him.
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Yes that is the hope. I think he must be alive, as she doesn't start living with his brother until 1918 (certainly after 1911) and they don't marry until 1931.
So unless we are talking of bigamy, he must have been dead by 1931 and probably earlier.
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I don't know the area. Is there access to electoral rolls?
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There is an air force service record for a Frederick Bellinger which contains the following information: Birth 19 Feb 1899 Wandsworth
On his marriage register entry (Oxford, May 1918, Dorothy May Gardner) he recorded his father as William Bellinger, miller.
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A Frederick Bellinger can be located in a number of electoral rolls in Balham and Tooting, Wandsworth living with William Albert and Annie in Letchworth Street. The one for 1935 has William Albert and Frederick at 24 Letchworth Street. At 26 Letchworth Street there is a Dora Bellinger.
I cannot quote it directly but I would suggest you locate Frederick Bellinger born 19 Feb 1899 in the 1939 register and note who else is in the household.
William
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Good finds. I think this shows that ‘Judri’ is ‘Frederick’ as suggested earlier by others.
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Millmoor - are you sure you have the details right? The record doesn't seem to exist on FindMyPast. Did you use Ancestry?
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I have now found the 1939 record on Ancestry, though I still can't find it on FindMyPast. It seems to list 3 names, with 2 blocked out.
Am I being silly, since I do not spot the significance other than to Say there was a marriage between two of those named.
I must be losing it, because I can't find a Dora Bellinger at 26 Letchworth Street using the electoral registers on Ancestry.
What are you all seeing that I can't?
NB Have now found 1939 entry on FindMyPast. Frederick transcribed as FARDUCK!!
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Hi Greaves, just for info really.
Frederick Bellinger who appears on 1939 reg died 1969 Sutton reg dist with that dob
Dora Bellinger died 1981 Sutton reg dist with that 1939 dob.
The child Earnest born 1939 has a mmn Clater
A Dora Clater was born sq 1914 Melton M with mmn Wright.
If the 1918 marriage is correct to Dorothy M Gardner I suspect that the 2 redacted names are children of Frederick and Dorothy, there are a couple of "good" Bellinger/Gardner births, Oxford and Wandsworth.
John
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Yes I guessed that the two blocked out people were children of either Dorothy or Dora.
But for the life of me I can't see the significance of the 1939 record. Nor can I see Dora - whoever she may be - on the electoral register at 26 Letchworth Street.
I sense that I am missing something important, but have no idea what I am missing.
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Re electoral rolls which are on Ancestry search for Frederick Bellinger in Wandsworth ( Balham and Tooting Central). The transcription for 1935 has the address as 24 Kellino Street but when you look at the original William Albert and Frederick are clearly at 24 Letchworth Street with a Dora Bellinger at 26.
( Perhaps the release of the 1921 census will help to shed more light on who's who in this conundrum).
William
Added :If you look at the 1936 electoral roll for 24 Letchworth Street both Frederick and Dora are recorded at that address.
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Yes I found the entry for 1935 on Ancestry, with William on one page and the other two on the next page. But I couldn’t find Dora who should have been on the same page as William.
I will have a look at 1936.
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Thanks for all the help given both privately and publicly.
I am a bit confused. Did Frederick marry twice: Dorothy GARDNER in 1918 in Oxford and Dora CLATER at a later date?
At the moment I can't find a second marriage to Dora, nor a death for Dorothy.
As we find out more, it gets even more complicated!
I have been looking at trees on Ancestry - which I know to be a dangerous practice - which suggest that Dorothy married a Frederick Bellinger in 1918 and then following his death in 1942 a Bertram Woodage. This does not seem to rest easy with Frederick and Dora being together in 1939 and Frederick dying in 1969.
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Hi Greaves, stating the obvious it does look as though the Frederick who married Dorothy May Gardner in 1918 with his dob as19.12.1899 on war record is the same man with Dora in 1939. As Dora was born 1914 she is unlikely to have married pre 1930. I too cannot find a second marriage and suspect they never married. As an aside a Bellinger/Clater daughter was born in 1947.
John
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Greaves,
Could this possibly be the missing 5th child
Birth
BELLINGER, MARY ANN -
GRO Reference: 1892 J Quarter in WANDSWORTH Volume 01D Page 720
Death
BELLINGER, MARY ANN 0
GRO Reference: 1892 S Quarter in WANDSWORTH Volume 01D Page 379
In an earlier post you sat Arthur William -legitimate, gro record would disagree
BELINGER, ARTHUR WILLIAM -
GRO Reference: 1887 S Quarter in WANDSWORTH Volume 01D Page 740
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If you have ancestry, look at the records for Elizabeth and William under London baptisms, actually workhouse birth records.
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Sorry Greaves, what I was trying to say was that the official gro record for Arthur William does not have a mmn, this is why I thought Mary Ann may well be the 5th child as she too does not have a mmn recorded.
John
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Looks like Frederick and Dorothy May divorced in 1920. See the attached link from the National Archives.
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C8025223
William
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Lots of interesting additional information with regard to possible fifth child, which might well be worth following, and the divorce. If the divorce was in 1920, then they weren’t married for very long. Short by even today’s standards!
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Frederick Ernest Bellinger born 1919 to Frederick & Dorothy was buried 23rd June 1921 at Drayton, St leonard aged 19 months. Image on Anc*
John
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Newspaper snippet
Oxford Chronicle 29th July 1921
Frederick Bellinger, (22) , 21 Letchworth Street … warrant … failing to comply with maintenance …
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Great find, Heywood!
Following up on this there are articles in the Oxfordshire papers in February 1921 as well as in July of that year. Article in the Oxfordshire Weekly News of 9 February indicates " on May 20 last year she obtained a separation order from her husband". He appealed against the maintenance order and during the time of the appeal she had to go into Tooting Workhouse. The appeal was dismissed , Frederick was arrested and sent to prison for six weeks. Further detail is gone into
This may well be the discharge document for Dorothy from the Workhouse.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QHV-P3NG-W9G1?i=510&cat=1390391
William
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I thought I would update this having received some new information in the post.
There are two brothers: Arthur Joseph BELLINGER and William Albert BELLINGER.
William Albert BELLINGER (b 1862) married twice: once to Annie HEWITT, a widow née COLBOURN, and then to Annie BELLINGER née MUNDAY, who was the widow of his brother Arthur Joseph.
Arthur Joseph BELLINGER (b 1865) married Ann MUNDAY in December 1886.
Going by the 1891, 1901 and 1911 censuses, William Albert only had one child with Ann HEWITT/COLBOURN, namely Sophie Annie Emily Kate who was born Q4 1882. The only other child to appear on these censuses is one Frederick T BELLINGER, who is 10 years older than Kate and described as a step-son. This is I believe Frederick James HEWITT, Ann HEWITT/COLBOURN's son from her first marriage.
The new information concerns birth certificates I have received this morning for Elizabeth MUNDAY (b Dec 1885), Arthur William (b Aug 1887) and Frederick (b Feb 1899). The first two were born in the workhouse, the third in Bendon Valley (?), Wandsworth. The mother in the first case is Ann MUNDAY, but in the second and third cases is Ann BELLINGER, reflecting Ann's marriage in 1886. The interesting thing is that in ALL three cases, no father is mentioned.
The absence of Arthur Joseph on the birth certificates came as a surprise to me. He is, of course, missing from every other record following his marriage. Where the hell was he? Why doesn't he appear on the records? When and where did he die?
I really need to know more about Arthur Joseph BELLINGER.
Also I still can't find a birth for James BELLINGER, who according to the 1901 and 1911 censuses was born in Wandsworth in c1896.
PS As suggested above, I have also sent for the birth certificate for Mary Ann BELLINGER. born Q2 1892.
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Received another birth certificate today, for Mary Ann Bellinger. Again father not named, but mother Ann BELLINGER, laundry hand of 34 Lyddon Road, Wandsworth. So Annie's five children now sorted: Elizabeth (1885), Arthur William (1887), Mary Ann (1892), James (1894) and Frederick (1899).
Remaining mysteries:
1. The missing father, Arthur Joseph BELLINGER
2. The missing birth certificate for James
Thanks for all the help so far given, though clearly I still need more!
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Mods - this thread has moved a long way from the original request for help in deciphering a census entry, so it may be helpful to shift it to another board. Your choice.
Meanwhile trying to make sense of this complicated family I have met the following problems:
1. Where was Annie COLBOURNE, the first wife of William Albert BELLINGER in 1871? She was born in Kintbury, Berks in 1841 and married Alfred HEWITT in 1873 in Merthyr Tydfil.
2. What happened to Alfred HEWITT - the first husband of Ann COLBOURNE, the first wife of William Albert BELLINGER. He presumably died between 1875 when Agnes Ellen HEWITT was born in Marylebone and 1881 when Ann COLBOURNE married William Albert BELLINGER, but I can't find an appropriate death.
3. Annie COLBOURNE's two children with Alfred HEWITT (Frederick James Mathew HEWITT and Agnes Ellen HEWITT) are living as boarders in Leyton in 1881 (RG11 1725 82 8), their mother doesn't seem to be present and I have no idea where she is in 1881.
4. Where are Frederick and Agnes in 1891? Their mother is living with William Albert and their daughter Sophie Annie Emily Kate BELLINGER in Wandsworth.
5. Arthur Joseph BELLINGER, the brother of William Albert and the first husband of Ann MUNDAY, remains a total mystery after his marriage in 1886.
6. The whereabouts in 1911 of Elizabeth BELLINGER (née MUNDAY), the first born child of Ann MUNDAY, also remains a mystery.
7. Ann MUNDAY had five children. I still don't know what happened to Elizabeth (1885), Arthur William (1887) or James (1894).
8. Finally I know that Sophie Annie Emily Kate BELLINGER married Frederick BILLSON in 1918, but can't find what happened to her.
I know lots of problems, but any help with this awkward family would be appreciated.
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1. Where was Annie COLBOURNE, the first wife of William Albert BELLINGER in 1871? She was born in Kintbury, Berks in 1841 and married Alfred HEWITT in 1873 in Merthyr Tydfil.
Do you have the marriage details?
The marriage index shows Alfred Hewitt and Jane Colbourne/Colebourne on the same page.
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Afraid not. I do not have the certificate and cannot find an image of the register.
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Sophie can be located in the 1939 register but with a not as expected birth year. ( For some reason it is easier to find on Ancestry than FindMyPast). Electoral rolls for Wandsworth have her at 58 Summerley Street up to 1962. Suspect this will be her death.
Kate Bilson Age 80 Jan - Mar 1963 Wandsworth RD.
William
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No problem.
Where do you have Annie Colbourne b 1841 Kintbury then.
I am just trying to find a starting point in the hope of finding her later.
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Annie COLBOURN born 12 Jul 1841 to John and Sarah COLBOURN [Q3 1841 Hungerford 6 178] under the name Jane. Baptised 22 Aug 1841 at St Mary in Kintbury.
You need to know that when she married William Albert in 1881 in Wandsworth, her name was Annie Jane HEWITT, a widow aged 35. Her father who was deceased was John COLBOURN. She seems to have started off as Jane, but later used Annie. In the 1901 census she is listed as Annie J BELLINGER, b Hungerford, Berks.
Nothing in this family is ever simple or straight-forward.
Note that whereas Frederick was born in Merthyr Tydfil shortly after the marriage of his parents, Agnes was born in Marylebone only two years later in 1875. Alfred was evidently a groom.
Millmoor - great find