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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: bettyespana on Wednesday 08 December 21 10:12 GMT (UK)
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Mary Ann Hargreaves 19 a Frame Tenter of 9 Percy St Salford Lancs married Robert Moss 22 a Under Carder of 5 Rixton St Salford on 2nd September 1876 at St Bartholomews CofE Salford.
Grooms Father: James Moss - Carder
Brides Father:John Hargreaves(Late) was a Moulder
The witnesses at the marriage were William Pollitt & Mary Clarke X
I have found Mary Ann Hargreaves baptism at St.Bartholomews,Salford on 1st April 1855 & her brother Charles was baptised on the same day.In the LOPR it states the parents names as John & Mary Hargreaves.It is the only clue I have to their Mothers name.At the time of these baptisms they were stated as living at Woralls Buildings in Ordsall,Salford.
As far as I am told there were other siblings but not sure.They were Alice,Sarah,John & James Henry.
I would really appreciate finding Mary Anns mother & also if those named as siblings are correct.
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Baptism: 11 Sep 1858 Cathedral Church of St John the Evangelist, Salford, Lancashire, England
Sarah Argrave - filia Joannis Argrave & Mariae (formerly Leaver)
Born: 1847
Abode: Tomilson pl., Warrel's Blgs.
Notes: Conditionate
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In the LOPR it states the parents names as John & Mary Hargreaves.It is the only clue I have to their Mothers name.
Are the children not with mother on a census - or has she passed away?
I take it there are no birth registrations for these children?
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I think they may be the family at 6 Tomlinson St, Salford in 1861 - John is widowed
RG9/2923 f13 p19
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Baptism: 11 Sep 1858 Cathedral Church of St John the Evangelist, Salford, Lancashire, England
Sarah Argrave - filia Joannis Argrave & Mariae (formerly Leaver)
Born: 1847
Abode: Tomilson pl., Warrel's Blgs.
Notes: Conditionate
Looks possible although the Cathedral Church at Salford is Roman Catholic.Mary Ann & Charles were Baptised Cof E & also MaryAnn married in St Bartholomews where Baptised.I am rather confused.
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I think they may be the family at 6 Tomlinson St, Salford in 1861 - John is widowed
RG9/2923 f13 p19
Yes,I thought that as well
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As far as I am told there were other siblings but not sure.They were Alice,Sarah,John & James Henry.
Just posting the 1861 that Rosie has referenced for info
Jno Hargreavess 49
Alice 29
Sarah 13
Charles 10
Jno 9
Mary 8
James Henry 4
Are there no birth registrations for any of the children to find mothers name? **
** James Henry has no mothers maiden name so perhaps he belonged to Alice
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In the LOPR it states the parents names as John & Mary Hargreaves.It is the only clue I have to their Mothers name.
Are the children not with mother on a census - or has she passed away?
I take it there are no birth registrations for these children?
It wouldn't seem so,I have no registrations & don't know if Mary is deceased.
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There is a birth Registration, Bolton, Sep Qtr, 1847 for a Sarah Hargreaves - mothers maiden name Lever.
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Baptism: 6 Nov 1831 St Peter, Bolton, Lancashire
Alice Hargreaves - Daughter of John Hargreaves & Mary
Abode: Darcy Lever
Fathers Occupation: Labourer
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Jun 1850 Salford birth registration for Charles with MMN Lever
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There is a birth Registration, Bolton, Sep Qtr, 1847 for a Sarah Hargreaves - mothers maiden name Lever.
In my old notes I have both Alice & Sarah being born Darcy Lever which is Bolton.Its quite a while since I looked at these & can't think why I disregarded them.
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Jun 1850 Salford birth registration for Charles with MMN Lever
Thank you for this,so looks like Mary Lever is promising in the search
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1851 Regent Road Salford
John Hargreaves 39
Mary 43
Sarah 3
Charles 1
There's a Mary burial in 1859 age 51
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1851 Regent Road Salford
John Hargreaves 39
Mary 43
Sarah 3
Charles 1
There's a Mary burial in 1859 age 51
So,looks as though the family moved to Salford prior to 1851c from Bolton if they are correct one's & its looking very likely.
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I wonder if this is relevant :-\.
Baptism: 29 May 1831 St James, Haslingden, Lancashire
Alice Leaver - Daughter of Mary Leaver, Spinster
Born: 17 Oct 1830
Abode: Manchester
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I wonder if this is relevant :-\.
Baptism: 29 May 1831 St James, Haslingden, Lancashire
Alice Leaver - Daughter of Mary Leaver, Spinster
Born: 17 Oct 1830
Abode: Manchester
None of the quotes has their abode in Manchester.
Salford is a seperate city to Manchester & that was their abode,other than Darcy Lever,Bolton.
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There's a Mary burial in 1859 age 51
FindMyPast Parish Burials (image/census)
Died 5 Oct 1859, inflammation, Mary Hargreaves, 6 Thomason Place, Ordsall Lane, Salford, buried Oct 9th, age 51
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There's a Mary burial in 1859 age 51
FindMyPast Parish Burials (image/census)
Died 5 Oct 1859, inflammation, Mary Hargreaves, 6 Thomason Place, Ordsall Lane, Salford, buried Oct 9th, age 51
Thank you so much for this information
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Sorry I have deleted that baptism, I got sidetracked and was looking for the wrong person ::)
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Sorry I have deleted that baptism, I got sidetracked and was looking for the wrong person ::)
Thats OK rosie,Not to worry! :)
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Have spent quite some time on this this afternoon - mainly because I was finding it difficult to point the relevant people after Robert Moss' death in 1884.
First off, I noted that when Robert and wife baptised their 3 children in 1883, wife's name is given as Mary Hannah (not Mary Ann) which could be why I was having problems finding family after his death.
Been toing and froing between umpteen sites to try and confirm things and discovered that Robert's wife married again as: Mary Hannah Moss, 32, widow, dau. of John Hargreaves, dec'd, Mechanic to Michael Cavan on 13/9/1890 St. Bartholomew, Salford.
Then checked baptisms and found Mary Hannah Hargreaves bp.23/11/1856 St. Philip, Salford, dau. of John Hargreaves, mechanic and Hannah. (There was also a baptism 30/9/1855, same details, so don't know if an error somewhere or same person baptised twice.). John and Hannah had 2 older children baptised 9/10/1853 same place - Elizabeth Ann and John Henry.
Checked births to find Hannah's maiden name which was Barlow.
John Hargreaves, mechanic, son of John Hargreaves, mechanic, married Hannah Barlow, dau. of Mark Barlow, on Cathedral Manchester on 4/2/1850.
Looks like John died in 1856 and on 5/7/1857 Manchester, his widow Hannah married a John Stewart. They were in Hulme 1861 with Elizabeth A Hargreaves 9, John Henry Hargreaves 8 and Mary Hannah shown as Hannah M. 5.
So although married Robert Moss as Mary Ann Hargreaves she was actually Mary Hannah Hargreaves, dau. of John Hargreaves, mechanic and Hannah, nee Barlow.
Annette
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Have spent quite some time on this this afternoon - mainly because I was finding it difficult to point the relevant people after Robert Moss' death in 1884.
First off, I noted that when Robert and wife baptised their 3 children in 1883, wife's name is given as Mary Hannah (not Mary Ann) which could be why I was having problems finding family after his death.
Been toing and froing between umpteen sites to try and confirm things and discovered that Robert's wife married again as: Mary Hannah Moss, 32, widow, dau. of John Hargreaves, dec'd, Mechanic to Michael Cavan on 13/9/1890 St. Bartholomew, Salford.
Then checked baptisms and found Mary Hannah Hargreaves bp.23/11/1856 St. Philip, Salford, dau. of John Hargreaves, mechanic and Hannah. (There was also a baptism 30/9/1855, same details, so don't know if an error somewhere or same person baptised twice.). John and Hannah had 2 older children baptised 9/10/1853 same place - Elizabeth Ann and John Henry.
Checked births to find Hannah's maiden name which was Barlow.
John Hargreaves, mechanic, son of John Hargreaves, mechanic, married Hannah Barlow, dau. of Mark Barlow, on Cathedral Manchester on 4/2/1850.
Looks like John died in 1856 and on 5/7/1857 Manchester, his widow Hannah married a John Stewart. They were in Hulme 1861 with Elizabeth A Hargreaves 9, John Henry Hargreaves 8 and Mary Hannah shown as Hannah M. 5.
So although married Robert Moss as Mary Ann Hargreaves she was actually Mary Hannah Hargreaves, dau. of John Hargreaves, mechanic and Hannah, nee Barlow.
Annette
Gosh Annette thats an awful lot you have found out & I am very grateful.Thank you to everyone who has been working on this too all day.I will study the details & introduce any corrections I should need to.Hopefully this will bring the searches into this family to an end.
Thank you once again.
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Baptism: 11 Sep 1858 Cathedral Church of St John the Evangelist, Salford, Lancashire, England
Sarah Argrave - filia Joannis Argrave & Mariae (formerly Leaver)
Born: 1847
Abode: Tomilson pl., Warrel's Blgs.
Notes: Conditionate
Looks possible although the Cathedral Church at Salford is Roman Catholic.Mary Ann & Charles were Baptised Cof E & also MaryAnn married in St Bartholomews where Baptised.I am rather confused.
Sarah's baptism was a conditional one, meaning she'd probably already been previously baptised but she got done again just to be sure. She was 11 at the time so the decision to have her received into the Catholic church must have been taken by a parent or guardian. So sometime between 1st April 1855 when Mary Ann and Charles were baptised at St. Bartholomew C. of E. and September 1858, a parent or guardian of Sarah decided she should be Catholic.
The Catholic Church in England didn't require Catholics to marry in a Catholic church in the 19th century. It recognised as valid a marriage according to the civil law of the land. My own 2xGGF who belonged to an ancient Catholic family in Lancashire and whose cousin was a diocesan Vicar-General (bishop's deputy whose position included ruling on marriages), married his 2nd wife in a non-conformist chapel in 1879. Parents of his first wife, both of whom were R.C. married in C. of E. parish church in Preston in 1843, although there were 2 R.C. churches in the town.
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Baptism: 11 Sep 1858 Cathedral Church of St John the Evangelist, Salford, Lancashire, England
Sarah Argrave - filia Joannis Argrave & Mariae (formerly Leaver)
Born: 1847
Abode: Tomilson pl., Warrel's Blgs.
Notes: Conditionate
Looks possible although the Cathedral Church at Salford is Roman Catholic.Mary Ann & Charles were Baptised Cof E & also MaryAnn married in St Bartholomews where Baptised.I am rather confused.
Sarah's baptism was a conditional one, meaning she'd probably already been previously baptised but she got done again just to be sure. She was 11 at the time so the decision to have her received into the Catholic church must have been taken by a parent or guardian. So sometime between 1st April 1855 when Mary Ann and Charles were baptised at St. Bartholomew C. of E. and September 1858, a parent or guardian of Sarah decided she should be Catholic.
The Catholic Church in England didn't require Catholics to marry in a Catholic church in the 19th century. It recognised as valid a marriage according to the civil law of the land. My own 2xGGF who belonged to an ancient Catholic family in Lancashire and whose cousin was a diocesan Vicar-General (bishop's deputy whose position included ruling on marriages), married his 2nd wife in a non-conformist chapel in 1879. Parents of his first wife, both of whom were R.C. married in C. of E. parish church in Preston in 1843, although there were 2 R.C. churches in the town.
Thank you sincerely for explaining this to me. It does make things a lot clearer to me now.
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Then checked baptisms and found Mary Hannah Hargreaves bp.23/11/1856 St. Philip, Salford
Transcribed as HEARGREAVES on LANOPC.
Mary Hannah Hargreaves birth registration 1855 Salford Greengate.
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Have spent quite some time on this this afternoon - mainly because I was finding it difficult to point the relevant people after Robert Moss' death in 1884.
First off, I noted that when Robert and wife baptised their 3 children in 1883, wife's name is given as Mary Hannah (not Mary Ann) which could be why I was having problems finding family after his death.
Been toing and froing between umpteen sites to try and confirm things and discovered that Robert's wife married again as: Mary Hannah Moss, 32, widow, dau. of John Hargreaves, dec'd, Mechanic to Michael Cavan on 13/9/1890 St. Bartholomew, Salford.
Then checked baptisms and found Mary Hannah Hargreaves bp.23/11/1856 St. Philip, Salford, dau. of John Hargreaves, mechanic and Hannah. (There was also a baptism 30/9/1855, same details, so don't know if an error somewhere or same person baptised twice.). John and Hannah had 2 older children baptised 9/10/1853 same place - Elizabeth Ann and John Henry.
Checked births to find Hannah's maiden name which was Barlow.
John Hargreaves, mechanic, son of John Hargreaves, mechanic, married Hannah Barlow, dau. of Mark Barlow, on Cathedral Manchester on 4/2/1850.
Looks like John died in 1856 and on 5/7/1857 Manchester, his widow Hannah married a John Stewart. They were in Hulme 1861 with Elizabeth A Hargreaves 9, John Henry Hargreaves 8 and Mary Hannah shown as Hannah M. 5.
So although married Robert Moss as Mary Ann Hargreaves she was actually Mary Hannah Hargreaves, dau. of John Hargreaves, mechanic and Hannah, nee Barlow.
Annette
Thank you Maid Stone I got Mary Hannah Hargreaves birth at St.Philips amongst the details she sent as above.I didn't have the place of registration although I am not surprised that it was Greengate.
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Have spent quite some time on this this afternoon - mainly because I was finding it difficult to point the relevant people after Robert Moss' death in 1884.
First off, I noted that when Robert and wife baptised their 3 children in 1883, wife's name is given as Mary Hannah (not Mary Ann) which could be why I was having problems finding family after his death.
Been toing and froing between umpteen sites to try and confirm things and discovered that Robert's wife married again as: Mary Hannah Moss, 32, widow, dau. of John Hargreaves, dec'd, Mechanic to Michael Cavan on 13/9/1890 St. Bartholomew, Salford.
Then checked baptisms and found Mary Hannah Hargreaves bp.23/11/1856 St. Philip, Salford, dau. of John Hargreaves, mechanic and Hannah. (There was also a baptism 30/9/1855, same details, so don't know if an error somewhere or same person baptised twice.). John and Hannah had 2 older children baptised 9/10/1853 same place - Elizabeth Ann and John Henry.
Checked births to find Hannah's maiden name which was Barlow.
John Hargreaves, mechanic, son of John Hargreaves, mechanic, married Hannah Barlow, dau. of Mark Barlow, on Cathedral Manchester on 4/2/1850.
Looks like John died in 1856 and on 5/7/1857 Manchester, his widow Hannah married a John Stewart. They were in Hulme 1861 with Elizabeth A Hargreaves 9, John Henry Hargreaves 8 and Mary Hannah shown as Hannah M. 5.
So although married Robert Moss as Mary Ann Hargreaves she was actually Mary Hannah Hargreaves, dau. of John Hargreaves, mechanic and Hannah, nee Barlow.
Annette
Gosh Annette thats an awful lot you have found out & I am very grateful.Thank you to everyone who has been working on this too all day.I will study the details & introduce any corrections I should need to.Hopefully this will bring the searches into this family to an end.
Thank you once again.
Hi Annette,I have come back to you again because I seem to have hit a brick wall.
I appreciate the work you did with this family but I am having difficulty finding Hannah Barlow with a parent named as Mark Barlow as you quoted in the above details. I keep going back over my searches just in case I have missed something but to no avail.Please can you help me.
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Census after Hannah Hargreaves, nee Barlow, married John Stewart states she was born in Ridgway, Yorkshire. Discovered Ridgway is Derbyshire.
Hannah Barlow born 9/3/1832, bp.13/6/1832 Ridgway (Eckington) Wesleyan Chapel, Derbyshire, dau. of Mark and Mary. 4 siblings baptised there together on 30/3/1831:
Sarah b.4/2/1824
Thomas b.24/7/1826
Ann b.23/8/1828
William b.18/1/1831
Also found:
Samuel bp.10/2/1811 Eckington
Eliza bp.8/8/1813 ditto
Mary bp.27/9/1818 ditto
Can only find one marriage between a Mark and Mary:
Mark Barlow married Mary Wingfield 26/2/1810 Sheffield, Yorkshire.
A Mark Barlow bp.23/4/1789 Eckington, son of Thomas and Martha.
Annette
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Census after Hannah Hargreaves, nee Barlow, married John Stewart states she was born in Ridgway, Yorkshire. Discovered Ridgway is Derbyshire.
Hannah Barlow born 9/3/1832, bp.13/6/1832 Ridgway (Eckington) Wesleyan Chapel, Derbyshire, dau. of Mark and Mary. 4 siblings baptised there together on 30/3/1831:
Sarah b.4/2/1824
Thomas b.24/7/1826
Ann b.23/8/1828
William b.18/1/1831
Also found:
Samuel bp.10/2/1811 Eckington
Eliza bp.8/8/1813 ditto
Mary bp.27/9/1818 ditto
Can only find one marriage between a Mark and Mary:
Mark Barlow married Mary Wingfield 26/2/1810 Sheffield, Yorkshire.
A Mark Barlow bp.23/4/1789 Eckington, son of Thomas and Martha.
Annette
Thank you so very much Annette.No wonder I couldnt' find them.I was looking Manchester,Salford,Bolton.I really do appreciate you using your time up to help.