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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Banffshire => Topic started by: Alan of Kaslo on Tuesday 14 December 21 03:28 GMT (UK)
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Greetings. I hit a brickwall a few years ago when researching my Banffshire Chapman family. The last solid information I have is for my grandparents Alexander Chapman and his wife Isobella Joass 11/09/1808. Alexander was a Shipmaster born in Macduff area. I could never find his birth/baptism docs...
I did find his grave.
https://billiongraves.com/grave/Alexander-Chapman/17196080
The son Alexander died at age 32. The father Alexander died 1889 at age 72 ...so it says , which would indicate a birth of about 1816 for Alexander and 1817 for Isobella. I have since found Isobella's docs.
JOASS
ISOBEL
WALTER JOASS/ANN MACKAY FR505 (FR505)
F
11/09/1808
155/
20 310
Gamrie and Macduff
When I finally found Alexander Chapman's death cert (attached) it confirmed the info on the grave. Said he died 1888 age 72. There is a birth in 1816 for an Alexander Chapman born to a jean Geddes and ancestry REALLY wanted me to add that to my tree and gave multiple hints leading to it... but the death doc says Alexander's parents were Alexander Chapman - Shipmaster and Agnes Morison.
CHAPMAN
ALEXANDER
72
MORRISON
1888
168/1 275
St Nicholas
So that is as much as I know ... I'm trying to find anyone related to Alexander Chapman sr. Shipmaster or Agnes Morison , who might have some info to share. Or anyone else who can help me find out who the parents of Alexander Chapman Sr. are(father of the Alexander on the grave who died at 72).
The facts:
Alexander Chapman -Shipmaster married Agnes Morison 29/12/1809 at Macduff
Alexander died young (doc not yet found) likely before 1841 census time
Agnes Morison remarried a man named John Henry and died 1863 age 89 (father listed:Theodore)
Alexander Chapman jr -seaman- the son was born about 1816 (no doc found)
I cannot find any solid info on when Alexander Chapman sr. -Shipmaster was born or who his parents are. He should be born in the 1780's in either Banffshire or Aberdeenshire ... possibly. The closest I could find is Alexander Chapman born to Anne Hill 20/02/1785 in Banff but I have zero proof other then right time/born in Banff.
So anyhow, any information about the elusive Alexander Chapman -Shipmaster such as his birth, death or parentage would be greatly appreciated! I have been searching for several years and have the proverbial brickwall. If anyone has info on Agnes Morison's Seaman father Theodore Morison i'd also be very interested in that!
Thanks in advance.
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Here is the death of Alexander Chapman's wife Agnes Morison in 1863 age 89.
This is how I came to know for sure that she married John Henry after Alexander passed. Also how i knew her father was Theodore Morison...
I can't find her birth which should be about 1774 or her mother's name. I also can't find Alexander Chapman's death.
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One last thing... I forgot that I found a child born in Peterhead to John Henry as early as 1823
HENRY
JAMES THEODORE
JOHN HENRY/
M
22/06/1823
232/
30 38
Peterhead
So it looks like Alexander Chapman died between 1816 and 1823.
Alexander Chapman jr. , Alexander Sr. , John Henry and Theodore Morison were all seamen ...
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When I finally found Alexander Chapman's death cert (attached) it confirmed the info on the grave. Said he died 1888 age 72. There is a birth in 1816 for an Alexander Chapman born to a jean Geddes and ancestry REALLY wanted me to add that to my tree and gave multiple hints leading to it... but the death doc says Alexander's parents were Alexander Chapman - Shipmaster and Agnes Morison.
********* Ancestry! No wonder there are so many online trees full of errors.
The death index at SP lists the death of Alexander Chapman, mother's maiden surname Geddes, in 1892, aged 76. He was a farmer, born New Pitsligo and lived in Kincardine O'Neil. So you can confidently tell Anc* to bin that suggestion. Not that they'll take any notice, of course.
Never, ever, trust anything you find online, and especially on commercial web sites like Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast etc etc, unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.
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The names Ann(e) and Agnes can be used interchangeably.
I see that John Henry and Ann Morrison were married in Banff on 23 January 1817, and had a daughter Hellen, baptised in 1820 in Banff. If she is your Agnes, then that further narrows the range of possible dates for the death of her previous husband.
If she was 89 when she died in 1863, that suggests that she was born in 1773/1774, and she would then have been 49 or 50 when James Theodore was born in 1823, unless he was an adult or very late baptism.
She is probably the one in the 1861 census in Peterhead, aged 68, shipmaster's wife, born Banff. This would suggest a date of birth in 1782/1783, and her age when James Theodore was baptised about 40 or 41. However I have yet to find her in 1851 or 1841.
I had a look at online newspapers, but found nothing relevant.
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I see that John Henry and Ann Morrison were married in Banff on 23 January 1817
Ahhhhh! John HenDry .... now I see it! Thanks so much.
I had only seen the 1835
HENRY
JOHN
ANN MORRISON/
13/12/1835
154/
20 93
Forglen
Thank you.
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Yes ... I always search for h*n*r*y to make sure of picking up both Henry and Hendry but no Henderson. And again using h*n*rie* to get Henrie and Hendrie but not Hendersone.
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The only m*r**s*n* births I can see between 1770-1790 with a father Th**d*r* are the ones with Theodore Morrison and Janet Man... there is however no Agnes/Ann and they are in Keith. If you go back a bit further there are several births in Forgue for Morrison's coming from a Theodore... but no Agnes/Ann.
The Keith births do have a James and a Theodore though...
I'll have to get the marriage doc of Theodore Morison and Janet Man to see if it mentions being a seaman. I've had some poor luck with docs around that age that don't bear many clues.
MORISON
THEODORE
JANET MAN/
01/07/1780
159/
40 164
Keith
That of course would be a little late for a 1773/1774 birth ...
I did get an earlier marriage in Turriff in 1757:
MORISON
THEODORE
MARGARET SIMSON/
21/08/1757
247/
10 312
Turriff
It looks somewhat promising but has no real clues. Just says "Theodore Morison in Forgue married Margaret Simson in this parish (Turriff)."
I guess there's a wee bit of clueage in that. ;)
Near as I can tell.. the only female born to a Theadore Morrison anywhere in Scotland between 1755-190 was a Jean:
MORISON
JEAN
THEODORE MORISON/
F
22/11/1760
There are Ann's and Agneses born to Thomases ...but nothing close to Theodore.
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Well.
That 1861 census transcription I quoted was actually 1851.
In 1861, in Peterhead, are John Hendry, 66, former shipmaster and army pensioner, born Banff; wife Agnes, aged 80, born England.
In 1851, she's Agnes Hendry, shipmaster's wife, 68, born Banffshire, Banff, on her own in the household so presumably John was absent at sea.
In 1841 she is Agnes Henry, 55, independent, born England, in the household of Barbara Butters, seaman's wife, born Aberdeenshire. I wondered if Barbara might be a daughter, but I think her maiden surname was King.
So two out of three censuses say that Agnes was born in England. It is quite possible that her parents were from Banff, and that she was born while they were following the herring fishing , in which case you'd be looking for a record of baptism in a fishing port somewhere on the east coast of England. That's not likely to be easy because if her parents were Scots, they probably belonged to the Church of Scotland and would not have had her baptised in a Church of England.
But I could be havering (that's a Scots word that means talking nonsense; it does not mean something between hesitating and wavering).
Either way, she wasn't born in Keith or in Forgue.
From the 1841, she would have been born between 1781 and 1786
From the 1851, 1782 -1783
From the 1861, 1780 -1781
From her age at death, 1773 -1774, but that is incompatible with James Theodore's probable date of birth.
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That makes very good sense to me! I somehow missed Agnes being referred to as English born.
It's also possible Alexander Chapman whom Agnes M married was also born outside Scotland.
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It seems that Ann/Agnes and John henDry moved from Banff to Peterhead between these two births...
HENRY
HELLEN
JOHN HENRY/ANN MORRISON
F
29/09/1820
147/
90 10
Banff
HENRY
JAMES THEODORE
JOHN HENRY/
M
22/06/1823
232/
30 38
Peterhead
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As I mentioned I have been searching for years for info on these family lines I have. I forgot how many docs I have amassed. I already found John Henry's death awhile ago...
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As John Henry was in the Merchant Service, there might be records of his career. Start with https://search.lma.gov.uk/scripts/mwimain.dll/308185105?INDEXSEARCH&DATABASE=RESEARCH_GUIDES&SIMPLE_EXP=Y&SUMMARY=WEB_SUMMARY_RG
Though it may be that he was too early to be listed. Alexander Chapman Sr certainly would be too early.
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In 1841 Alexander Chapman jr. is listed as living alone on "Shiprow" Peterhead.
https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/5a1402f2f4040b9d6ee74426/alexander-chapman-1841-aberdeenshire-peterhead-1811-?locale=en
It says for Alexander Jr.'s place of birth "Out of County " ... I had wondered if that meant Banffshire or possibly even born like Agnes Morison (on the sea somewhere like England).
His wife Isabella Joass is listed as living with the kids, including a Barbara on "Harbour" street (maybe not too far from Shiprow?).
https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/59026738e9379091b1cc1fad/isabella-chapman-1851-aberdeenshire-peterhead-1811-?locale=en
1846 postal lists Alexander Chapman jr. as living on Bath Street , Peterhead. It lists his ship as "Hero"
Next page you see John Henry living on "James" street , his ship is "Rose"
As mentioned: 1851 census
https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/59026738e9379091b1cc2084/agnes-henry-1851-aberdeenshire-peterhead-1783-?locale=en
1841 census:
https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/5a1402e3f4040b9d6ee726bd/agnes-henry-1841-aberdeenshire-peterhead-1786-?locale=en
Definitely the same Agnes and John on James street...
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It says for Alexander Jr.'s place of birth "Out of County " ... I had wondered if that meant Banffshire or possibly even born like Agnes Morison (on the sea somewhere like England).
The options for answers in that column are
Y - born in the same county
N - born in the same country but not the same county
E - born in England
S - born in Scotland
I - born in Ireland
F - foreign born
(there should be W for Wales but I don't think I've ever seen that). FreeCEN transcriptions include some information that isn't in the original, and saying 'Out of County' for 'N' is one of those.
So it specifically excludes him being born at sea or in England, Ireland, foreign parts or Aberdeenshire.
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CHAPMAN
ALEXANDER
ALEXANDER CHAPMAN/ANNE HILL
M
20/02/1785
147/
30 466
Banff
I remember reading a post on a site by someone who must be related trying to figure out the history of Alexander C sr. He went on to say he thought the above was the best possible fit but admitted its just a guess.
If I could somehow tie Alexander sr. to Inchdrewar or to 1785.
There are two other AC births at the time in nearby Aberdeenshire:
CHAPMAN
ALEXANDER
ALEXANDER CHAPMAN/
M
28/07/1781
173/
20 91
Auchterless
CHAPMAN
ALEXANDER
JOHN CHAPMAN/MARY SCOTT
M
22/03/1786
181/
10 51
Cluny