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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: NooshieW on Tuesday 04 January 22 13:55 GMT (UK)

Title: 1921 census
Post by: NooshieW on Tuesday 04 January 22 13:55 GMT (UK)
I am sure this topic is on here somewhere , but what do people think about the charges for the viewing of the census. Apparently £3.50 for one view of one item. Very expensive.
I have been waiting for this like many others ,but would like to look up multiple people.
It is a bit prohibitive for those in low incomes.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: CLP04893824 on Tuesday 04 January 22 14:17 GMT (UK)
Yes, it soon adds up. I imagine the same applies in public libraries with otherwise free FindMyPast access. The only alternative is to go to The National Archives at Kew or to their hubs in Manchester or Wales where they say it will be free: https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/about/news/regional-hubs-to-offer-free-online-access-to-1921-census/
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: BumbleB on Tuesday 04 January 22 14:41 GMT (UK)
I'm afraid it's a case of "like it or lump it".  AND we had the same thing with the 1939 register, and possibly the 1911.

Even we who have paid for a full subscription - I've been a subscriber since 2013 -  will be charged.



Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: CaroleW on Tuesday 04 January 22 16:43 GMT (UK)
So many people are "desperate" to advance their FH or get the answers to questions that they will pay.   Perhaps if they didn't - the costs would be reviewed as at the end of the day it's all about profits.   

I wonder how many people will pay & then find they have downloaded the wrong entry?  Much like the "wrong pre 1911 birth certs" before GRO online became available with mothers maiden name 

Isn't it going to be much like Scotlands People - pay per view?

I'm happy to wait until Ancestry include it in their subscription as they did with the 1911 & 1939

Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: BumbleB on Tuesday 04 January 22 16:44 GMT (UK)
I've just had a look at prices for the 1939 Register - back in 2015 -

£6.95 per household or £24.95 for a 5 household bundle = £4.99 per household.

Again there was a discount for FindMyPast subscribers.

£3.50 per view in 2022 compares VERY favourably  ;)

Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: ThrelfallYorky on Tuesday 04 January 22 16:49 GMT (UK)
I'll be waiting for "Ancestry" too, CaroleW.
TY
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: mrcakey on Tuesday 04 January 22 18:23 GMT (UK)
I have 5 households on my "priority" list, which I will definitely order = £15.75 with subscriber discount.

I have another 10 or so that I might order = £31.50.

That would be £47.25 to get all the records I might want. An awful lot cheaper for me than travelling to London or Manchester and an awful lot less hassle in the current climate.

The records should be free, but our glorious leaders farm them out to private companies (where else are they doing that I wonder?), so those private companies need to recoup their huge costs. I don't begrudge them one bit.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: BumbleB on Tuesday 04 January 22 18:50 GMT (UK)
Apologies, but I'm getting fed up with those who expect EVERYTHING for nothing.

I'm with mrcakey - I have 3 that I really want - my mother and her mother, my father with his parents, and my great-grandparents.  Any others are supernumerary and can wait!!



Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: coombs on Tuesday 04 January 22 18:57 GMT (UK)
I am just grateful the census is being released and do not mind paying £3.50 for one item. I have only about 5 that I really, really want.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: PaulineJ on Tuesday 04 January 22 19:03 GMT (UK)
I am just grateful the census is being released and do not mind paying £3.50 for one item. I have only about 5 that I really, really want.

Me too. Anything else can wait. I'm fortunate to be within striking distance of Manchester, so I might tease out a few more for the train fare in a month or so.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Familysearch on Tuesday 04 January 22 21:23 GMT (UK)
My first one will be for my grandparents - they married on 1 June 1921!

After that, I'm going to look up the relatives I knew as a child.

That should keep the cost manageable. (I don't mind paying. I have no longer got the desire to go and sit in the local library with everyone else, using their computers).

FS
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: KGarrad on Tuesday 04 January 22 21:32 GMT (UK)
I have 5 households on my "priority" list, which I will definitely order = £15.75 with subscriber discount.

I have another 10 or so that I might order = £31.50.

That would be £47.25 to get all the records I might want. An awful lot cheaper for me than travelling to London or Manchester and an awful lot less hassle in the current climate.

The records should be free, but our glorious leaders farm them out to private companies (where else are they doing that I wonder?), so those private companies need to recoup their huge costs. I don't begrudge them one bit.

Sorry - I don't understand?
Why should they be free?
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: GrahamSimons on Tuesday 04 January 22 21:43 GMT (UK)
I have 5 households on my "priority" list, which I will definitely order = £15.75 with subscriber discount.

I have another 10 or so that I might order = £31.50.

That would be £47.25 to get all the records I might want. An awful lot cheaper for me than travelling to London or Manchester and an awful lot less hassle in the current climate.

The records should be free, but our glorious leaders farm them out to private companies (where else are they doing that I wonder?), so those private companies need to recoup their huge costs. I don't begrudge them one bit.

Sorry - I don't understand?
Why should they be free?

I agree completely.
Someone has to pay for large quantities of digitisation to make the images. Someone has to pay for the indexing and transcription processes. Someone has to pay for the computer systems and servers that deliver the data to researchers like us.
So either we pay for the product, or someone else has to - and surely we get the benefit so should pay the price?
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: coombs on Tuesday 04 January 22 22:06 GMT (UK)
No such thing as a free lunch.

In February 2004 I had been doing casual genealogy for a while by then but really got bitten by the bug that month and was at the FRC in Clerkenwell and asked a man who said the 1921 census is still going to be closed for another 18 years due to the 100 year closure rule. Now all I have to wait is 26 hours.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Guy Etchells on Tuesday 04 January 22 22:31 GMT (UK)
I am sure this topic is on here somewhere , but what do people think about the charges for the viewing of the census. Apparently £3.50 for one view of one item. Very expensive.
I have been waiting for this like many others ,but would like to look up multiple people.
It is a bit prohibitive for those in low incomes.

How much would it cost for you to travel from Devon to the National Archives to view the 1921 Census?
Would your travel costs and printout costs at the NA be more or less than the costs of downloading the images and or the transcripts you wish to obtain?
Now do you still think it is very expensive to be able to sit in the warmth & comfort of your own home to view & download the same records.

The problem is not the companies that have spent large sums of money digitising transcribing and hosting the records not to mention the licence fee they have to pay the National Archives for the privilege of spending all that time and money, but the people that seem to think such records appear on the internet at little cost in time and money to the companies that host such records.

I admit for the lucky few who live close to the National Archives will be able to view the records for next to nothing but for those of us who live some distance away the benefits of on line records outweigh the minimal costs, yes they really are minimal costs compared with the alternative.
Cheers
Guy
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Top-of-the-hill on Tuesday 04 January 22 22:35 GMT (UK)
  Guy has more or less said what I was going to! I used to travel to London to see records at a cost of quite a lot of pounds (and time). Even travelling to my County Archives costs a fair bit, so I shall thankfully sit at home and check a few entries in the new census.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: coombs on Tuesday 04 January 22 22:43 GMT (UK)
I can remember the days of travelling 150 miles down to London for a few days to do genealogy, and each day having to plod through the London rush hour in the morning, up the huge DLR platforms, buying tickets, then changing at Fenchurch Street and going through the stifling tubes, all squashed up like sardines to get from my East End hotel to the NA and the FRC in Clerkenwell, and spending hours looking through census records, BMD ledgers at the FRC or unindexed electoral records to find a single entry for an ancestor/or a likely candidate. (Each birth ledger containing about 50'000 entries, arranged by quarter and surnames A to D, E to I and so on.) Then spending an hour getting back through the evening rush hour on the tube, starving as my quest for ancestral info outweighed my quest for a 20 minute lunch break.



Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: groom on Tuesday 04 January 22 23:43 GMT (UK)
Apologies, but I'm getting fed up with those who expect EVERYTHING for nothing.

I'm with mrcakey - I have 3 that I really want - my mother and her mother, my father with his parents, and my great-grandparents.  Any others are supernumerary and can wait!!

I agree with you BumbleB. I believe there have been other threads here explaining just how much work has gone into producing this so we all have access. Why should we expect it to be free? Genealogy is a hobby and hobbies cost money.

From what I understand as well, those who say they will wait for Ancestry to get it may have a long wait, as I think FindMyPast have exclusive rights for 10 years.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Guy Etchells on Wednesday 05 January 22 07:53 GMT (UK)
Snip
The records should be free, but our glorious leaders farm them out to private companies (where else are they doing that I wonder?), so those private companies need to recoup their huge costs. I don't begrudge them one bit.

Sorry - I don't understand?
Why should they be free?

I can understand what the poster meant by "The records should be free" but I suggest he/she does not understand the implications of that statement.
I agree we have already paid for the record to be taken and archived, we have even paid for the facility to access them free of charge at the archive that stores the record, however we have not paid the vast sums it takes to digitise, index and host the records on line. That is the point many if not most of the people who complain about the cost miss.
The local archives and even the National Archive does not have the funds, the equipment or the expertise to host such data sets on line. If they were to do so the taxpayer would have to pay a larger contribution and that would risk the argument that the cost of storing the records outweighed the value of those records to the public. If that were the case the result could be the destruction of many archived records to save money (this has indeed happened in the past when local archives have been cut back resulting in records being thrown out).

The system in place is I believe fair, the taxpayer pays for the storage and the facilities of the National Archive (and local archives) and the user pays for the luxury of accessing data sets in the comfort of their home.
This is a win, win situation which spreads the burden between taxpayer and user.

Cheers
Guy
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Romilly on Wednesday 05 January 22 10:03 GMT (UK)

I completely understand the reasons for charges, and personally would be prepared to pay a lot more if it gave me any clue at all to the origins of my ever elusive paternal grandfather!

However, Iím not holding my breath, as he seems a past master at obliterating any clues at all about his antecedentsÖ

Romilly  ::)
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: linnet27 on Wednesday 05 January 22 10:26 GMT (UK)
I have been waiting for this census for several years! In search of unknown grandfather. Dad was born Sept 1920 and looked after by his grandparents while my Nan went back to Service. Just hope it was the same place and there may be clues to names from DNA matches but not holding my breath 😊
Lynne
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: JayG on Wednesday 05 January 22 10:36 GMT (UK)
Like others have said I don't understand why people expect it to be free in the format it is being made available.

When I first started my research the 1891 census was the most upto date one available.
 These were on microfilm, which all had to be searched manually.  If you were lucky a family history society might have produced some sort of index to help you find possible ancestors/relations.

None of the census were available to me from the comfort of my own home, visits to Archives and libraries for my relevant counties of interest were needed.

Anyone who has taken up this hobby post Ancestry, FindMyPast etc does not realise how lucky they are to have vast collections of records available to them, for a fee, in the comfort of their own home.  I'm lucky myself to have access to some of these too as I never managed to make trips to some counties I was interested in.

I have 19 direct ancestors on the 1921 census, probably 9 or 10 individual households.  I'll happily be paying to view them tomorrow.

Jay
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: linnet27 on Wednesday 05 January 22 10:50 GMT (UK)
Totally agree Jay!  Itís going to be great to see records of family I actually knew!  My Mum is 100 on Sunday and would love to know who her father in law was 😊
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: AntonyMMM on Wednesday 05 January 22 11:19 GMT (UK)
I don't think the charges are any great surprise, and in line with previous releases (1911 and 1939).

I'm not planning on doing any great number of searches tomorrow- maybe just a couple, but I will be very surprised if the website doesn't crash or have other problems. Launches like this always do, just from the demand.

Most of my searches will be done at TNA in a couple of weeks when the dust has settled a little.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: groom on Wednesday 05 January 22 11:36 GMT (UK)
I don't think the charges are any great surprise, and in line with previous releases (1911 and 1939).

I'm not planning on doing any great number of searches tomorrow- maybe just a couple, but I will be very surprised if the website doesn't crash or have other problems. Launches like this always do, just from the demand.

I know the 1901 crashed and it was several months until it was back online. I can't remember any problems with the 1911 census or 1939 register when FindMyPast released them. Hopefully the fact it is being released by a large company may help.

I don't think quite so many people will rush to see the 1921 census as a lot of older researchers already know about their family from then, or have filled in the gaps by using the 1939 register. I know when the 1911 was released I had a lot I needed to find. For the 1921 I only have a couple I need to see, the others are just out of interest, not to actually confirm anything.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: carol8353 on Wednesday 05 January 22 12:05 GMT (UK)

I completely understand the reasons for charges, and personally would be prepared to pay a lot more if it gave me any clue at all to the origins of my ever elusive paternal grandfather!

However, Iím not holding my breath, as he seems a past master at obliterating any clues at all about his antecedentsÖ

Romilly  ::)

As the date finally nears, I have been thinking of you and hoping that mysterious grandad appears on the 1921. I will be keeping my eyes open for you to post that you've finally found where he came from.

Good luck

Carol x
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: california dreamin on Wednesday 05 January 22 12:16 GMT (UK)
I'm super excited for the release of the '21.  I'm not sure what I'll find but it is always great fun trying to interpret further information on the forms just by the way some people filled them out.

One thing I would like to comment on, which no one else seems to highlight, is I think the 'conservation' of the data is paramount. Yes, it is costly to properly index, digitise and store the data, but conservation to me is key.   The fact the census materials have been checked, cleaned and are now being stored appropriately is so important.  Remember these were created in the days of coal fires and all this paper would have needed the soot (not to mention other nasties) removed to keep the document in top condition.

I'll be heading to a hub and hoping the system doesn't  crash!   :D

CD
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Top-of-the-hill on Wednesday 05 January 22 12:27 GMT (UK)
  As groom said, I know exactly where my family was in 1921 - in the house I was brought up in! I would just like to know where my grandfather was working at that point. Most of my look-ups will be on the local history side.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Romilly on Wednesday 05 January 22 13:11 GMT (UK)
I completely understand the reasons for charges, and personally would be prepared to pay a lot more if it gave me any clue at all to the origins of my ever elusive paternal grandfather!
However, Iím not holding my breath, as he seems a past master at obliterating any clues at all about his antecedentsÖ
Romilly  ::)

As the date finally nears, I have been thinking of you and hoping that mysterious grandad appears on the 1921. I will be keeping my eyes open for you to post that you've finally found where he came from.

Good luck

Carol x

Many thanks Carol,

And thanks for all of your help with trying to find him over the years.

Iíll be sure to post on here if I find anything at all!

Romilly  8)
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: AllanUK on Wednesday 05 January 22 13:23 GMT (UK)
Like others have said I don't understand why people expect it to be free in the format it is being made available.

When I first started my research the 1891 census was the most upto date one available.
 These were on microfilm, which all had to be searched manually.  If you were lucky a family history society might have produced some sort of index to help you find possible ancestors/relations.

None of the census were available to me from the comfort of my own home, visits to Archives and libraries for my relevant counties of interest were needed.

Anyone who has taken up this hobby post Ancestry, FindMyPast etc does not realise how lucky they are to have vast collections of records available to them, for a fee, in the comfort of their own home.  I'm lucky myself to have access to some of these too as I never managed to make trips to some counties I was interested in.

I have 19 direct ancestors on the 1921 census, probably 9 or 10 individual households.  I'll happily be paying to view them tomorrow.

Jay

Like you Jay, I spent many hours in county archives (both local and further afield) to find family members - when the 1891; 1901 and 1911 Census came on line one by one it was worth paying the  extra over above my subscriptions to Ancestry and FindMyPast just to do the searches in the comfort of my home.

We all know that the Census returns are public property but the public purse isn't there to assist our hobby.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: candleflame on Wednesday 05 January 22 13:23 GMT (UK)
I'm just excited it's being released, just as I was for previous ones. This is especially true as I am unlikely to be around for when the 1951 census is released........
I'll enjoy searching for some of my lot and depending on how successful I am, may buy a few, not because they are essential, but because I'd like them. I've done some prep work of looking at some electoral rolls online where they exist and narrowed down where I think some of them should be in 1921, but who knows .
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: mrcakey on Wednesday 05 January 22 13:53 GMT (UK)
Snip
The records should be free, but our glorious leaders farm them out to private companies (where else are they doing that I wonder?), so those private companies need to recoup their huge costs. I don't begrudge them one bit.

Sorry - I don't understand?
Why should they be free?

I can understand what the poster meant by "The records should be free" but I suggest he/she does not understand the implications of that statement.
{snipped}

It's a philosophy thing. I'm afraid I'm an old fashioned liberal. I feel very uncomfortable about the idea of my relatives having to pay to find out about me in 100 years time too. My data should belong to me as a matter of principle.

Digitisation, transcription and storage all cost a lot of money, but relative to what's in the exchequer, I doubt it would even trouble 1% of the government's daily budget.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Guy Etchells on Wednesday 05 January 22 14:29 GMT (UK)

It's a philosophy thing. I'm afraid I'm an old fashioned liberal. I feel very uncomfortable about the idea of my relatives having to pay to find out about me in 100 years time too. My data should belong to me as a matter of principle.

Digitisation, transcription and storage all cost a lot of money, but relative to what's in the exchequer, I doubt it would even trouble 1% of the government's daily budget.

Your data does belong to you but your are asking that government data (i.e. data collected and collated by government employees) not your data even if it contains details about you, be supplied free of charge
You can of course use a freedom of information request to have the information the government hold on you supplied to you, but even that comes at a small charge.
There is no point in discussing whether your relatives would have to pay to view records the government hold about you in 100 years as by that time the government may not even be allowed to keep any records on individuals unless they are needed for current business and your relatives will most probably not be allowed to access such records in any case. Even today your relatives have no right to gain access to any records the government hold about you except for a very few records specified by law such as your birth certificate, marriage certificate and eventually death certificate. Even they have to be paid for, I do not see you protesting about that!

Your last paragraph suggests you do not mind paying for access to government records as long as every other taxpayer in the country pays part of the costs, that says a lot about your principles.
Cheers
Guy
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Marmalady on Wednesday 05 January 22 14:31 GMT (UK)

It's a philosophy thing. I'm afraid I'm an old fashioned liberal. I feel very uncomfortable about the idea of my relatives having to pay to find out about me in 100 years time too. My data should belong to me as a matter of principle.

Digitisation, transcription and storage all cost a lot of money, but relative to what's in the exchequer, I doubt it would even trouble 1% of the government's daily budget.

So write it all down and let your relatives / descendants know about you  without having to wait for a census release in the future

Census info is pretty basic -- Name address age occupation family etc -- so is easily written down and stored either in paper of digital form.
You can also expand on the basic info to give your descendants a much more rounded view of who you are and how you live than a snapshot taken on one night every 10 years
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: coombs on Wednesday 05 January 22 15:17 GMT (UK)
I should know exactly where some of mine are in the 1921 census right down to the address. Unless they were on holiday and were staying in a hotel in Bournemouth or Great Yarmouth. You never know.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: mrcakey on Wednesday 05 January 22 15:18 GMT (UK)
{snip}
Your last paragraph suggests you do not mind paying for access to government records as long as every other taxpayer in the country pays part of the costs, that says a lot about your principles.
Cheers
Guy
I'm sure it does. The idea that only those who can afford to pay should be able to access them says a lot about yours.  :)
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Erato on Wednesday 05 January 22 15:55 GMT (UK)
For those with American ancestors, the 1950 US census will be released in April.  It remains to be seen how good the name search function is but at least access to the census will be free.  Even if the search function is poor, you'll be able to find people in small towns or in larger towns if you know a specific address and can use it to identify the enumeration district.  I look forward to seeing myself on the census.

https://www.archives.gov/news/articles/1950-census-access
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: coombs on Wednesday 05 January 22 16:09 GMT (UK)
I should find my great, great aunty in Pittsburgh in the US 1950 census. She died in 1961.

My 3xgreat grandad emigrated to America in 1886 after his wife died, to join a daughter out there, and some of his children stayed in the UK. He is last on the 1900 US census and was dead probably by 1906 when Pennsylvania civil reg began.

Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Boongie Pam on Wednesday 05 January 22 16:39 GMT (UK)

This is a win, win situation which spreads the burden between taxpayer and user.

Cheers
Guy

I totally agree - this is a hobby, a luxury in my mind. The burden should not fall to the general populace. It should be paid for by the consumer.  It could be argued there is an obligation, moral rather than legal, to allow people to access digitised/indexed channels for free by appointment or at local hubs.

It is the fairest way to do it, it means those who consume the information but do not live in the UK also fund the digitisation activity. And I also totally agree with California Dreamer's point on conservation, very expensive business.

I am really pleased to see the price come down versus the 1939 register.

I've cherry picked 5 families I want to link from 1911 to 1939. It will help me prove or disprove bigamy. Could I wait. Yes - will I? NOT A CHANCE! I've been waiting 10 years  :D
 
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: rogerb on Wednesday 05 January 22 16:52 GMT (UK)
Anyway... Is anyone planning to start searching at 1 minute past midnight?
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: BumbleB on Wednesday 05 January 22 16:57 GMT (UK)
No - I'll leave it at least a couple of days to see how it goes.  I've got about 5 close relations to search for, although I'm more than certain that they are all in Halifax, just need to pinpoint them!



Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: rosie99 on Wednesday 05 January 22 17:06 GMT (UK)
Anyway... Is anyone planning to start searching at 1 minute past midnight?

I will leave that to those of us that live in countries that are not in bed  when it becomes available  :)
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Guy Etchells on Wednesday 05 January 22 18:19 GMT (UK)
{snip}
Your last paragraph suggests you do not mind paying for access to government records as long as every other taxpayer in the country pays part of the costs, that says a lot about your principles.
Cheers
Guy
I'm sure it does. The idea that only those who can afford to pay should be able to access them says a lot about yours.  :)

Yes, borne from being brought up with my two brothers and our sister by my mother single handed. She struggled to feed us. that alone spend money on luxury items such as family history records. She taught us that everything in life comes at a price, something I have never forgotten to this day.

Cheers
Guy
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: coombs on Wednesday 05 January 22 18:25 GMT (UK)
I may be tempted to look at the 1921 census after midnight, at least at the search engine. I may hold back buying a few entries as it could be January 2002 and 1901 census all over again where the site crashes.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Boongie Pam on Wednesday 05 January 22 18:31 GMT (UK)
Anyway... Is anyone planning to start searching at 1 minute past midnight?

I'll be there 00:00 and 10 seconds!
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Familysearch on Wednesday 05 January 22 18:52 GMT (UK)
No - I'll leave it at least a couple of days to see how it goes.  I've got about 5 close relations to search for, although I'm more than certain that they are all in Halifax, just need to pinpoint them!

Might end up in Halifax myself!  If not, probably Brighouse.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Hillhurst on Wednesday 05 January 22 18:53 GMT (UK)
For those with American ancestors, the 1950 US census will be released in April. 

I read somewhere that the 1950 census also covers US military personnel serving overseas? Can't recall where I read it, though.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Romilly on Wednesday 05 January 22 19:27 GMT (UK)
Anyway... Is anyone planning to start searching at 1 minute past midnight?

Quite likely!

Romilly  :D
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Annette128 on Wednesday 05 January 22 20:10 GMT (UK)
Yes of course!
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: coombs on Wednesday 05 January 22 20:31 GMT (UK)
Still 3 and a half hours to go, it is like waiting for New Year.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: ReadyDale on Wednesday 05 January 22 21:26 GMT (UK)
Still 3 and a half hours to go, it is like waiting for New Year.
But thankfully without the noise to keep the neighbours awake until 3am, and the carbon footprint that goes with that.  ;)
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: louisa maud on Wednesday 05 January 22 21:32 GMT (UK)
Good  luck to  all  you searchers at 1min  past  midnight, think I will wait awhile.have  got 2 if not 3 illusives  I  hope  to catch up with

Good  luck

Louisa Maud
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: coombs on Thursday 06 January 22 00:00 GMT (UK)
Less than minute to go, lets get ready to sing Auld Lang Syne afterwards.  :D
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Mark1973 on Thursday 06 January 22 00:10 GMT (UK)
I'm in and viewed my first download, no crashes yet!
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Boongie Pam on Thursday 06 January 22 00:16 GMT (UK)
Working fine for me as well.

A couple of hints...

If you buy the image you need teh film strip at the bottom open, choose the "extra materials" link and you will see teh front cover and instructions in the same purchase. That is where you find the address - it isn't on teh schedule listing itself.

When searching you can hover over a result and it gives the names of other people. These may not be related. I searched for Alfred John Palmer and there was a Violet as expected but also a a Jennie. Turned out Jennie owned the digs they were lodgers in.

This was on a desktop PC - it maybe different on other devices.

Pam
 :D
 
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Gadget on Thursday 06 January 22 00:17 GMT (UK)
Went in about 10 mins ago and, just for the L of it, I got my grandparents and my Mum. I knew where they were, etc. from the 1911 but was surprised  that all their sons were still at home. 

 :)
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Boongie Pam on Thursday 06 January 22 00:24 GMT (UK)
I spoke too soon... It's grinding to a halt for me.

But I think I have enough certainty that my very handsome great grandfather was a bigamist!
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: cuffie81 on Thursday 06 January 22 00:24 GMT (UK)
First record found and bought. Image viewer failed to properly load the image, with the browser console log full of "tile load failure" messages. Attempting to download the image also failed but worked after a few attempts.

So, about as good as service as I expect from FindMyPast nowadays.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: coombs on Thursday 06 January 22 00:24 GMT (UK)
I bought a image of my gran and her family and twice it said the "Something went wrong our end" with the very patronising "Whoops" at the front, before the image finally worked.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: ReadyDale on Thursday 06 January 22 00:26 GMT (UK)
Struggling to get past the blurred, low-res (i.e. unreadable) version of my first one  ::)
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Boongie Pam on Thursday 06 January 22 00:30 GMT (UK)
I've had the same "Whoops" and low res, it took about 2 returns to the results and reloaded it and it was fine.

What do you reckon... She said she was separated, they corrected to married as they never divorced. Her husband married my ggrandma 6 years earlier...

I've waited a long time for such a simple meagre proof :)
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: emeraldcity on Thursday 06 January 22 00:33 GMT (UK)
Just had a quick look but going to resist staying up and will peruse properly tomorrow!

Already a bit of mystery awaiting me perhaps - can see my great-grandmother (who apparently never left her home town) living on the other side of the country for some inexplicable reason.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Jool on Thursday 06 January 22 00:59 GMT (UK)
Not off to a great start.  My first search was for my grandmother with her parents and siblings, surname SPOONER.  I eventually found them transcribed under the surname STONER.

I haven't bought the image yet so I don't know if the original was badly written. I bet they will ask if I would like to submit a correction, so I will pay for the incorrectly transcribed image and correct it for them  ::)
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Hillhurst on Thursday 06 January 22 01:07 GMT (UK)
Typical - the one "priority" relative I had for the 1921 census is nowhere to be found. She's definitely alive in 1921. She's not with her family, and she never married. She definitely remained in England.

UPDATE: Finally found her - visiting an unknown family the other side of the country! I wasn't sure it was her, until I saw her mother's Surrey address in the (Employer) Place of Work column! That detail confirmed it. But now I'm wondering what she was doing the other side of the country, given that she was in a 'vulnerable' condition. Hmm. Something for me to ponder tonight.  ???

Found my career military grandfather, too. Stationed in Wiltshire. So that was a big surprise.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Kenaz on Thursday 06 January 22 02:27 GMT (UK)
The price is prohibitive. I purchased four transcripts and that is my lot until it opens up under a normal subscription.

I found out my great grandparents moved out of the family farm home I expected them to be (they presumably moved back) and were operating as green grocers! And my poor great great grandmother who I had bumped off in 1916 on my ancestry tree was in fact alive in 1921! 
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: NooshieW on Thursday 06 January 22 03:10 GMT (UK)
*deleted*
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: ThrelfallYorky on Thursday 06 January 22 09:01 GMT (UK)
How fortunate I was to have had the 1920s Canadian census images for some years, showing both my grandparents on the paternal side tucked away safely there! Saved me a pointless search for them in Britain now!
TY
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Familysearch on Thursday 06 January 22 09:15 GMT (UK)
Where do I find the address? It's not on the form!!
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: BumbleB on Thursday 06 January 22 09:18 GMT (UK)
I found from another thread that the address is the next image - and is available without extra payment.

I am awaiting a response from FindMyPast.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Boongie Pam on Thursday 06 January 22 09:22 GMT (UK)
Where do I find the address? It's not on the form!!

Go to "extra materials" in the film strip at the bottom of the page and choose "Front" that has the address. Cover has the parish extra.  This is the PC view I haven't used other devices yet.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: weste on Thursday 06 January 22 09:27 GMT (UK)
yes i saw your previous and that has answered my query thanks , it was annoying me!
jean
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Pamela21 on Thursday 06 January 22 09:47 GMT (UK)
Thanks for the help finding the address. I was expecting it to be as on the 1911 census so was horrified it wasn't there!

Good luck everyone finding your ancestors. And please stop complaining about the price. Read this thread. Anyone who is a 'proper' researcher (i.e. someone who researched in the 20th century) will know how cheap, easy and convenient online records are compared to the expense and hard work of travelling around the country and manually searching old archives. Be thankful and realise how lucky you are. 
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: rogerb on Thursday 06 January 22 09:56 GMT (UK)
Not off to a great start.  My first search was for my grandmother with her parents and siblings, surname SPOONER.  I eventually found them transcribed under the surname STONER.

I haven't bought the image yet so I don't know if the original was badly written. I bet they will ask if I would like to submit a correction, so I will pay for the incorrectly transcribed image and correct it for them  ::)

Interesting.  I suppose I thought that the transcriptions would be much more accurate this time around.  I did a 5 minute search this morning for the Hassan family but found nothing.  Hopefully they are just mistranscribed somewhere.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: PaulineJ on Thursday 06 January 22 10:19 GMT (UK)
surely you are taking the mick, stating that a transcription is "wrong" when you haven't seen the original
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: rogerb on Thursday 06 January 22 10:25 GMT (UK)
True...
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Petros on Thursday 06 January 22 10:40 GMT (UK)
Seems to search efficiently enough. I have found both my parents easily enough but yet to download. The main point of interest is whether the form will show the stillbirths that I was told had occurred.

My main interest was trying to locate a high level DNA connection who may have been born in 1920 or 1922 for whom no birth record or putative parents' marriage can be found in the GRO Index. Of course I can't find her!
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Jool on Thursday 06 January 22 10:56 GMT (UK)
surely you are taking the mick, stating that a transcription is "wrong" when you haven't seen the original

The transcription for the "Stoner" family are my Spooner family.  All 5 family members are transcribed with the christian names, birth dates, birth places and town location that I know to be correct.  One had a particularly unusual middle name.

I have also searched for my maternal grandmother and her family, again all details correct but the Loundes family have been transcribed as Launder.

I will be buying both original images later, I will then see just how bad the handwriting was.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: jane k on Thursday 06 January 22 10:59 GMT (UK)
I`ve just paid to see the copy of the entry for my grandfather and cannot see anything identifying the address - can anyone help please?  The search just says Aston District (Birmingham) but I was hoping for the street
I haven`t paid to see the transcript - it sounds like that doesn`t give the information either - just a map including the local area
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Gadget on Thursday 06 January 22 11:07 GMT (UK)
See Pam's post:

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=857098.msg7257453#msg7257453
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Gadget on Thursday 06 January 22 11:12 GMT (UK)
I must say that I am underwhelmed by the census. It's probably because many of us who are of a certain age know where everyone was, etc. and the 1911, 1939, subsequent deaths, marriages and births are already collected. I'll store them for my records to pass on but ....

Sadly, this is the last UK census that I'll see as the 1951 is probably too late, unless I live to be into my 100s.


PS - to me, the 1911 was far more informative.


Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: jane k on Thursday 06 January 22 11:27 GMT (UK)
Thanks for help finding the address - apologies for not spotting earlier posts about this
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Jool on Thursday 06 January 22 11:28 GMT (UK)
I have just downloaded the original census image, to me it is quite clearly Spooner and not Stoner.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Girl Guide on Thursday 06 January 22 11:31 GMT (UK)
I  have to agree Gadget that the information on the 1921 is not as good as the 1911.  No indication of children born, living or died and no address section. Certainly no indication of stillbirths if anyone was hoping for that.  Okay the ages are given in years and months so possibly helpful to pin down an ancestor.

I searched for just one family and found it through the address search, transcribed as Eylain!  The surname is England.  I checked the original just to be certain.

It unfortunately didn't help me as I was hoping I would get a clear place of birth, but only got the county.

Can someone remind me when exactly the 1921 census was taken please?  Thanks.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Jool on Thursday 06 January 22 11:34 GMT (UK)

Can someone remind me when exactly the 1921 census was taken please?  Thanks.

19 June 1921  :)
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: linnet27 on Thursday 06 January 22 11:36 GMT (UK)
I have an unknown grandfather and have been looking forward to this census in the hope I might be able to get some clues but I can't find my Dad who was born September 1920 or my Gran.  The story was that Dad was looked after by grandparents and my Gran went back to Service, where I hoped I might find the clues!  I have found her parents but no mention of my Dad.  Very frustrated!!
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: cbowley on Thursday 06 January 22 11:37 GMT (UK)
I'm not impressed. There is nothing at all for North Fambridge, Essex which is where I suspect my GGF was. The nearest are Rettendon and Woodham Ferrers, several miles away.

I also looked for a friend's grandfather with surname Vandermeulen with no match found. Then I found his grandmother with surname Bissell and the grandfather was right beside her. I tried loads of misspellings to try and find him in the index but no luck. Also, the hovering over the result to see the other occupants trick didn't work, maybe because they were lodgers, so I don't know how they mistranscribed his surname.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Girl Guide on Thursday 06 January 22 11:47 GMT (UK)
Thanks for that Jool.  Just wondering how accurate the age given is.  It was stated as being 45 years and 5 months.  So if I have my maths correct that's January 1876?

The 1939, by which time the lady is in a hospital described as senile, dob given as 28 November 1875.  So how accurate is that??

One would hope that in 1921 she would know what her age was, so I may go with that for now.  ::)
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: coombs on Thursday 06 January 22 12:00 GMT (UK)
I've had the same "Whoops" and low res, it took about 2 returns to the results and reloaded it and it was fine.

What do you reckon... She said she was separated, they corrected to married as they never divorced. Her husband married my ggrandma 6 years earlier...

I've waited a long time for such a simple meagre proof :)

Same here. It was blurry to start with but after 2 goes it was better.

I am quite pleased with the 1921 census. It is just as informative as the 1911, perhaps more in some ways.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: PaulineJ on Thursday 06 January 22 12:07 GMT (UK)
I'm not impressed. There is nothing at all for North Fambridge, Essex which is where I suspect my GGF was. The nearest are Rettendon and Woodham Ferrers, several miles away.
.

Rettendon at al are all Chelmsford.

Try
Parish: Stow Maries,Cold Norton   
District: Maldon

A total of 23 households
North Fambridge   Stow Maries,Cold Norton   Maldon   Essex   England   
North Fambridge, Maldon   Stow Maries,Cold Norton   Maldon   Essex   England   
North Farmbrifdge   Stow Maries,Cold Norton   Maldon   Essex   England   
North Hambridge   Stow Maries,Cold Norton   Maldon   Essex   England   
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: panda40 on Thursday 06 January 22 12:09 GMT (UK)
Well my great grandfatherís middle name is down as Charles when it is Clarke. I canít locate another great grandparent although I know she died in 1935. I know her location but wish you could search by address which would help. I canít afford to check each of her children to see if she is with them.
Interestingly my relative in the lunatic asylum is listed with his full name not initials.

Regards
Panda
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: PaulineJ on Thursday 06 January 22 12:10 GMT (UK)
Well my great grandfatherís middle name is down as Charles when it is Clarke. I canít locate another great grandparent although I know she died in 1935. I know her location but wish you could search by address which would help. I canít afford to check each of her children to see if she is with them.
Interestingly my relative in the lunatic asylum is listed with his full name not initials.

Regards
Panda

https://www.findmypast.co.uk/1921-census Clicjk the "find by address" (green ) tab on RHS
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: panda40 on Thursday 06 January 22 12:14 GMT (UK)
Thanks Pauline thatís going to help loads :)
Regards
Panda
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: LizzieW on Thursday 06 January 22 12:15 GMT (UK)
I have 5 households on my "priority" list, which I will definitely order = £15.75 with subscriber discount.

I have another 10 or so that I might order = £31.50.

That would be £47.25 to get all the records I might want. An awful lot cheaper for me than travelling to London or Manchester and an awful lot less hassle in the current climate.

The records should be free, but our glorious leaders farm them out to private companies (where else are they doing that I wonder?), so those private companies need to recoup their huge costs. I don't begrudge them one bit.

Sorry - I don't understand?
Why should they be free?

I agree completely.
Someone has to pay for large quantities of digitisation to make the images. Someone has to pay for the indexing and transcription processes. Someone has to pay for the computer systems and servers that deliver the data to researchers like us.
So either we pay for the product, or someone else has to - and surely we get the benefit so should pay the price?

I heard a talk from people who were involved and they said before they could even start on the digitisation they had to repair many of the records because they had been so badly kept.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: coombs on Thursday 06 January 22 12:18 GMT (UK)
In time they may make the 1921 census part of your FindMyPast subscription, like they did the 1939 register.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: NooshieW on Thursday 06 January 22 12:19 GMT (UK)
I bought my Dad and grandmas record in the early hours. I cannot print it, save it or attach it successfully to the person in my tree. Any ideas? I want a hard copy after paying for it. I have an iPad.
When I go to the tree and click on saved media ,it takes me back to paying for it!!
Any help would be great
Thanks
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Comberton on Thursday 06 January 22 12:20 GMT (UK)
For the address section see reply 78 on this thread. The children under 16 still living are on  the far right of the image.
There is an address search but unfortunately it does not give any clues when you hover over the transcript button, at least not on the street I checked.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: LizzieW on Thursday 06 January 22 12:21 GMT (UK)
I've made one payment for the record of my mysterious g.grandfather.  I got the census image and was a bit surprised to realise that the transcription would be another £2.25.  I didn't bother with that as the census was clear enough.

Apart from his age of 65 years 4 months at the time of the census, making his dob February 1856, I didn't gain much information.  My g.gran's age was correct for once, she gave her age as 77 years 8 months which nicely takes us back to October 1843 which is spot on - I have her birth certificate.  So from that I'm assuming my g.grandfather's age must be correct too.  The only difference from other census is that he gave his place of birth as Bow, rather than Bethnal Green or just Middlesex.  However, I still can't find him.  There are a few options but looking on GRO the surnames of the mothers are wrong.  My feeling is that he was illegitimate and for some reason his birth was never registered.  From DNA, I know exactly which family he is related to but I just can't fit him in. :'( :'(
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: LizzieW on Thursday 06 January 22 12:22 GMT (UK)
I bought my Dad and grandmas record in the early hours. I cannot print it, save it or attach it successfully to the person in my tree. Any ideas? I want a hard copy after paying for it. I have an iPad.
When I go to the tree and click on saved media ,it takes me back to paying for it!!
Any help would be great
Thanks

At the top of the record there is an arrow pointing downwards.  You can download the document from that and then do what you like with it.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Girl Guide on Thursday 06 January 22 12:22 GMT (UK)
Nooshie, can you screenshot it?  That's what I did with my one record that I looked up and also printed it.

If you are on Find My Past, have you checked My Records?
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: ReynoldsMartinBrian on Thursday 06 January 22 12:30 GMT (UK)
Ive just found my Great Grandad Joah with the name Joan... Surely it is obvious when it says male or female. 
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: coombs on Thursday 06 January 22 12:32 GMT (UK)
I have an ancestor whose birth was not registered. He was born sometime in 1855/1856 and I was hoping his age in months would be given but just his age, which was 65 in 1921, the "months" is sadly left blank. He was living with his son in law so I guess he forgot to add his age in months.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Pamela21 on Thursday 06 January 22 12:40 GMT (UK)
I have found 15 households and downloaded them all (also the 'front' page showing the address) to my computer by clicking the 'down' arrow at the top. Having paid for them it's essential to save them with your other records.

I agree that there are fewer ancestors and households to search as we move closer in time, and I know where most of them were in 1921, but I still want to have them.

There are many ancestors' siblings (some tricky) which I will look for later when the records are available with the subscription. They may be more interesting as I know less about them.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: melba_schmelba on Thursday 06 January 22 12:43 GMT (UK)
All seemed to go fairly well, of my first 11 searches, 7 were found no problem, one had a mistranscribed first name, and one a mistranscribed surname. I found the two I couldn't find by

(i) searching for first name + first letter of last name and * wildcard, and
(ii) searching for the child's name of the other person, the child's full name was transcribed correctly.

Other methods you could use is just first name or surname + age + place. I note unlike the 1939 register, the exact birthdate is not included (although that was often wrong by a year or so).

Unexpectedly found a couple visiting friends, not at home, and some other children on holiday. I wonder if two other missing relatives were on holiday in Scotland - is the Scottish 1921 census available (or to be?)?
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Spiral on Thursday 06 January 22 12:45 GMT (UK)
My Cetti family living in Leeds have been transcribed as Cotte, the aunt who lives with them, Teresina Mastaglio, has been transcribed as Teresma Mastagleo which made finding them fun. Good thing I knew their birth places; especially as Edward Warner Cetti was just Warner Cotte. Being able to add another name in the household helped too.

I will not be purchasing this record as it is not going to help further my research but I am curious to know just how bad was the handwriting!
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: emeraldcity on Thursday 06 January 22 12:48 GMT (UK)
Definitely encountering a lot of mis transcriptions. Struggling to search tbh!
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: louisa maud on Thursday 06 January 22 12:58 GMT (UK)
Searched  for  2  of the same  name, one would  be  15, his father disappeared about 1910, he isn't on the 1921 either, was  really hoping  I  would  find these 2, the  son  might be fatherless, I  did  wonder if  he  was  in the forces somewhere as  a  boy soldier,  my  last  chance to find them

Louisa  Maud
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: rogerb on Thursday 06 January 22 13:05 GMT (UK)
surely you are taking the mick, stating that a transcription is "wrong" when you haven't seen the original

As you say, in my case, the name was written wrongly - but transcribed correctly.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: cbowley on Thursday 06 January 22 13:06 GMT (UK)
Huge thanks for that. North Fambridge has to go in the street part and Maldon is the town even though it is miles away. It took me two goes to get the correct address but I now have it - my GGF the landlord of the pub, using an alias, employing a barmaid described as a companion that he bigamously married 4 years later and also employing the parents of the woman he was pretending to be married to in 1911 although she married someone else in 1919 and also with the 9 year old son by said pretend wife that we now know wasn't his. I call that £7 well spent. The entertainment value from passing this news around the relatives will be enormous.

I'm not impressed. There is nothing at all for North Fambridge, Essex which is where I suspect my GGF was. The nearest are Rettendon and Woodham Ferrers, several miles away.
.

Rettendon at al are all Chelmsford.

Try
Parish: Stow Maries,Cold Norton   
District: Maldon

A total of 23 households
North Fambridge   Stow Maries,Cold Norton   Maldon   Essex   England   
North Fambridge, Maldon   Stow Maries,Cold Norton   Maldon   Essex   England   
North Farmbrifdge   Stow Maries,Cold Norton   Maldon   Essex   England   
North Hambridge   Stow Maries,Cold Norton   Maldon   Essex   England
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Gibel on Thursday 06 January 22 13:19 GMT (UK)
I thought Iíd look for my mother, I know her name, date of birth, address, fatherís name, motherís name but nothing! So I tried her sister, brother, mother, father nothing. I tried just with Christian names nothing. Iíve tried the first 3 letters of the surname nothing.

I thought Iíd do an address search but the address doesnít exist! I checked the Liverpool Electoral Roll to make sure I have the correct address even though I know it from my motherís birth certificate in 1917.

What else can I try?
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: PaulineJ on Thursday 06 January 22 13:35 GMT (UK)
Tell someone which address you are looking for.
We might not be able to give the entry, but we could see if we agree that it's awol.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Romilly on Thursday 06 January 22 13:40 GMT (UK)

I got on as soon as it went live at 12.00am, but am quite disappointedÖ
The only new info that I got was that my Grandfather William James Wilson was 61 years and 4 months old in June 1921!

Romilly :-\
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Pheno on Thursday 06 January 22 14:04 GMT (UK)
Anybody know exactly the date of the census.  I know it asks for the details on the night of 24th April 1921 but was there a time limit on return as my aunt is on there and she was born on 5 June 1921 so obviously was not in the house on 24 April.

Pheno
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Gadget on Thursday 06 January 22 14:07 GMT (UK)
   19 June 1921
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: rogerb on Thursday 06 January 22 14:17 GMT (UK)
On one of the pages I have downloaded, someone has used a date stamp of 19th June over the top of the original April date.  Presumably the census got put back at some point.

And even though I should be working, I did a quick Google and it turns out that it was put back because of the "Black Friday strike by coal miners, railwaymen and transport workers"
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Zaphod99 on Thursday 06 January 22 15:06 GMT (UK)
The 1921 census could do with its own section, subdivided into topics like, Help, Costs, Technical, Successes etc.

Zaph
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: ReadyDale on Thursday 06 January 22 15:08 GMT (UK)
Well, after the initial slowness (lo-res images, then hanging - not unexpected) and the oft-asked query about the address, it has all been quite smooth.
Have concentrated on the higher priority ones on my side of the tree so far. Nothing too unexpected. However a couple of nice nuggets - my maternal grandparents both reporting their (presumably) first jobs - one is as a porter in the turnery dept of Harrods, the other in what I am currently reading as a concession within an Army & Navy store.
The most interesting news was that my paternal great grand-parents had already separated (earlier than expected). He was living with his new "lady friend" and she as a housekeeper (along with 3 of her kids, including my g-father) at the house of the person who 8 years later notified her death.
On my OH's side, the only one I have bought so far is for my wife's father. No new info, but possibly the only document where he and his father will both appear - one born 1918 the other dies 1926.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: carol8353 on Thursday 06 January 22 15:12 GMT (UK)

I got on as soon as it went live at 12.00am, but am quite disappointedÖ
The only new info that I got was that my Grandfather William James Wilson was 61 years and 4 months old in June 1921!

Romilly :-\

Oh blow (or words to that effect!)

I loved to be able to see where my grandparents all worked,doesn't that part of the census help at all?
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: melba_schmelba on Thursday 06 January 22 15:12 GMT (UK)
Quite an annoying issue, is that you can't send a correction (as far as I can see), if you only buy the image, I'm not paying £2.50 for every correction I want to send!
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: nanny jan on Thursday 06 January 22 15:18 GMT (UK)
Quite an annoying issue, is that you can't send a correction (as far as I can see), if you only buy the image, I'm not paying £2.50 for every correction I want to send!

Iíve emailed ďsupportĒ instead!
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: melba_schmelba on Thursday 06 January 22 15:22 GMT (UK)
Quite an annoying issue, is that you can't send a correction (as far as I can see), if you only buy the image, I'm not paying £2.50 for every correction I want to send!

Iíve emailed ďsupportĒ instead!
Let us know if you get a positive response :). I'll start making a list which I can send them all in one go!

EDIT: if you go into 'My Records' at the top, you will get a list of all your purchases, you can then copy the link for the transcript (little page icon to right of camera icon) by right clicking > copy link.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Pamela21 on Thursday 06 January 22 15:25 GMT (UK)
Under the first column 'relationship to head of household' they have not included adopted or fostered children and there is no advice in the instructions. It looks like they completely forgot about them. In the one I'm looking at the child was fostered so was not related to the head or his wife.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: BumbleB on Thursday 06 January 22 15:33 GMT (UK)
Under the first column 'relationship to head of household' they have not included adopted or fostered children and there is no advice in the instructions. It looks like they completely forgot about them. In the one I'm looking at the child was fostered so was not related to the head or his wife.

It depends on the person who completed the forms - I've found both fostered and adopted designations for children.

Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: NooshieW on Thursday 06 January 22 15:40 GMT (UK)
I have waited with anticipation for this, as my Dadís childhood was a mystery. He is on there with his mother, so at least I know where he was aged 7. My grandma lied about her age which I find very odd.
She made herself two years younger. As she was about to remarry, (she was a war widow), I cannot think why she would do that. The whole form was a shambles, she made a complete hash of it actually dear of her!! Anyway, her husband to be was in Chelmsford ,(she was in Plymouth) and he was unemployed and boarding. So my mystery is, why did he move from Plymouth to Chelmsford when there was no job there!!
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: coombs on Thursday 06 January 22 15:41 GMT (UK)
One ancestor died in May 1921 aged 82, so will not be in the final census entry for 19 June 1921 but his name may appear but crossed out, as he would still have been alive on the 24th April 1921, the original intended date.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: ReadyDale on Thursday 06 January 22 15:41 GMT (UK)
Is there anywhere within the census paperwork that says how those last columns (about the children) are SUPPOSED to be completed?

I have a few different interpretations and am wondering whether I am misunderstanding them or could potentially read something in to the answers (i.e. who is included and who isn't).
Obvs the person completing could also have the wrong end of the stick.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: LizzieW on Thursday 06 January 22 16:01 GMT (UK)
One of my aunts who was 13 at the time was staying with my g.grandparents (her grandparents) and under the single, married, divorced heading it states "Both Alive".  When I looked properly at the heading it asked for the status of parents of any child visiting on the day of the census.  I thought there was supposed to be more info on this census, but really apart from full ages in years and months, there was no more info than I got from the 1911 census.  All the boxes at the right hand side of the census relate to living children and step children under 16, but this didn't apply to my aunt as she was a visitor. 
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Lensmeister on Thursday 06 January 22 16:03 GMT (UK)
ok guys.

I bit the bullet and ordered one of the family on the census.

Initially really pleased that I found them, the ages I knew but their employment and employers  :)

BUT

No address !!!!!!

The image I have has no address for the family ...

How do I find that out ?
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: LizzieW on Thursday 06 January 22 16:07 GMT (UK)
My g.grandparents ran their own tobacconist shop on Hessle Road, Hull.  So no employer or employee, apart from themselves.  As I said no further info than on 1911, apart from exact ages.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: youngtug on Thursday 06 January 22 16:09 GMT (UK)
ok guys.

I bit the bullet and ordered one of the family on the census.

Initially really pleased that I found them, the ages I knew but their employment and employers  :)

BUT

No address !!!!!!

The image I have has no address for the family ...

How do I find that out ?

See post 78
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: johnhood on Thursday 06 January 22 16:11 GMT (UK)
I have only just looked for the one real mystery in my family tree. Kate Jessie Filer dob 12.01.1857.

Found her as Kate Jessie Tiler aged 69 = c1852. Living with her was 1 male aged 3, one Robert Sharker. Look at the image and it says Robert, Stanley - both alive, no relationship, born Brixton, Devon, image says Brixton Middsx.

Not the best £3.15 I have ever spent

John
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Thursday 06 January 22 16:12 GMT (UK)

BUT

No address !!!!!!

The image I have has no address for the family ...

How do I find that out ?

See Pam's reply #69 on this thread
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=857098.msg7257453#msg7257453

Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Gibel on Thursday 06 January 22 16:15 GMT (UK)
The address I was looking for is

8 Greenhill Avenue Allerton Liverpool


The head of the family is John Dobson born 1860 in Liverpool.

Iíd be grateful is someone can either find it or decide it has been missed.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Lensmeister on Thursday 06 January 22 16:17 GMT (UK)


See post 78

You diamond you ... thanks :)
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Girl Guide on Thursday 06 January 22 16:27 GMT (UK)
Gibel - just looked at the address search and found Greenhill Avenue.

No. 8 however is not listed - 3, 4, 9, 13, 16 x 2, 17, 19 and 88.  So it appears that for whatever reason No. 8 is not there.

The 1911 shows odd numbers only of 10 households.  I haven't checked any earlier census records for this address.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: rogerb on Thursday 06 January 22 16:31 GMT (UK)
I have noticed in the past that roads get renumbered from time to time.  Sometimes 2 roads get incorporated into 1, or I have seen it when half a road seems to have been demolished.

So just because a house is number 8 one year, it doesn't necessarily follow that its always been number 8!
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Girl Guide on Thursday 06 January 22 16:32 GMT (UK)
Gibel there is one John Dobson born 1862 in Liverpool on the 1921 census.  Hovering over the transcription button gives me the names of persons these being John, Agnes, Agnes Christiana and three others.

Could this be your John?
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: rosie99 on Thursday 06 January 22 16:34 GMT (UK)
The address I was looking for is

8 Greenhill Avenue Allerton Liverpool


The head of the family is John Dobson born 1860 in Liverpool.

Iíd be grateful is someone can either find it or decide it has been missed.

Try DOLSON

I am using the advanced search and not putting in a name.  I did put in West Derby RD,  Allerton parish  and the road name but it does not appear to want to have house numbers.  It then listed everyone in the street
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: johnhood on Thursday 06 January 22 16:35 GMT (UK)
Gibel there is one John Dobson born 1862 in Liverpool on the 1921 census.  Hovering over the transcription button gives me the names of persons these being John, Agnes, Agnes Christiana and three others.

Could this be your John?

Have pm'd Gibel, it's under surname DOLSON

John
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: olympus593 on Thursday 06 January 22 16:44 GMT (UK)
I have purchased the original image from the 1921 census. I can read it fine, is there any point in ordering the transcript also. Does it add any new information that the image of the 1921 census does not show?
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: PurdeyB on Thursday 06 January 22 16:44 GMT (UK)
I'm super excited for the release of the '21.  I'm not sure what I'll find but it is always great fun trying to interpret further information on the forms just by the way some people filled them out.

One thing I would like to comment on, which no one else seems to highlight, is I think the 'conservation' of the data is paramount. Yes, it is costly to properly index, digitise and store the data, but conservation to me is key.   The fact the census materials have been checked, cleaned and are now being stored appropriately is so important.  Remember these were created in the days of coal fires and all this paper would have needed the soot (not to mention other nasties) removed to keep the document in top condition.

I'll be heading to a hub and hoping the system doesn't  crash!   :D

I posted this a while ago, but there was an interesting segment on radio 4 about the work done to prepare the records. (I've never linked a post before so hope this works.)

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=854759.msg7229382#msg7229382
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Gibel on Thursday 06 January 22 16:46 GMT (UK)
Thank you everyone who helped with my search.

They are indeed indexed as Dolson!

I now have my father and mother in the 1921 census.

Iíve also found a family friend who will be 102 next month!
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Girl Guide on Thursday 06 January 22 16:56 GMT (UK)
Looks like there are going to be quite a number of misread surnames in the transcription records  ::)  I've already discovered that with one that I was looking for.  Eylain instead of England!
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: GuyMassey on Thursday 06 January 22 17:34 GMT (UK)
I have purchased three original pages of the 1921 census that apply to my grandparents and am surprised that they do not seem to display a place of residence. This was one of the reasons that I subscribed in the first place. Previous censuses had their addresses in the first column. Am I missing something?
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Marmalady on Thursday 06 January 22 17:37 GMT (UK)
I have purchased three original pages of the 1921 census that apply to my grandparents and am surprised that they do not seem to display a place of residence. This was one of the reasons that I subscribed in the first place. Previous censuses had their addresses in the first column. Am I missing something?

Yes -- several previous queries / replies about this!

Open the "filmstrip" at the bottom of the screen
Click on "Extra Materials
Then select "Front" --this will give the address
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: ReadyDale on Thursday 06 January 22 17:39 GMT (UK)
I have purchased three original pages of the 1921 census that apply to my grandparents and am surprised that they do not seem to display a place of residence. This was one of the reasons that I subscribed in the first place. Previous censuses had their addresses in the first column. Am I missing something?
Post 69 within this thread (on page 8) has some screen shots of how to do it.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: BumbleB on Thursday 06 January 22 17:39 GMT (UK)
I have purchased three original pages of the 1921 census that apply to my grandparents and am surprised that they do not seem to display a place of residence. This was one of the reasons that I subscribed in the first place. Previous censuses had their addresses in the first column. Am I missing something?

Addresses are on a separate page.  If you go into your search results (no extra charge) then you will see under the image "Extra Materials" and if you click on that you can see a number of options - click on "Front" and that will give you the address.  A double-sided form  :-*
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: phil57 on Thursday 06 January 22 17:48 GMT (UK)
I think I am well on the way to cracking a long standing DNA puzzle as a result of one image I have downloaded. Another obviously relates to an institution, as the person I am interested in is described as a patient, and there are other patients and inmates on the page BUT the schedule/front page address field is completely blank.

I have emailed FindMyPast to ask if they can help with the address, as I don't want to speculatively search through other images in the same piece at £3.15 a time. Is anyone aware of another way around this?
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: BumbleB on Thursday 06 January 22 17:50 GMT (UK)
Addresses are on a separate page.  If you go into your search results (no extra charge) then you will see under the image "Extra Materials" and if you click on that you can see a number of options - click on "Front" and that will give you the address.  A double-sided form  :-*

This might help!
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Sam Swift on Thursday 06 January 22 18:24 GMT (UK)
Anyone know if there were "missing " books at all. I've exhausted all variations of everything and anything , names, years, street addresses wildcards etc etc.......... for a family of 5. I'm beginning to wonder if there are pieces missing. I considered the possibility of maybe one being one of the initialed individuals in an institution, but the family were all young adults with parents, father involved in engineering for a small firm (tried searching or occupations and variations of too), so I can't see them all being in a workhouse or similar, since at least 2 were married a couple of year the census and everything seemed hunky dory on their wedding cert and photos.

I found all others, including Welsh ones, which had their names transcribed incorrectly. I even found a an un-named baby that the parents had entered as a boy when in fact it was a girl. So I can't understand where my family of 5 are.



Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: KGarrad on Thursday 06 January 22 18:31 GMT (UK)
I have purchased three original pages of the 1921 census that apply to my grandparents and am surprised that they do not seem to display a place of residence. This was one of the reasons that I subscribed in the first place. Previous censuses had their addresses in the first column. Am I missing something?
Post 69 within this thread (on page 8) has some screen shots of how to do it.


Also posts 146 and 148! ;)
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Boongie Pam on Thursday 06 January 22 18:39 GMT (UK)
I  have to agree Gadget that the information on the 1921 is not as good as the 1911.  No indication of children born, living or died and no address section.

Address section is on the front page - you can find it in extra materials.  I've added the screenshot here as well :)
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: coombs on Thursday 06 January 22 18:44 GMT (UK)
My gggrandfather grandfather was working at Augener Printing Works in Acton, London in the 1921 census. By then he was 61. He lived in Camden Town so made the few mile commute to Augener.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Girl Guide on Thursday 06 January 22 18:55 GMT (UK)
Thanks for that Boongie, I've downloaded your attachment so I can refer to it in the future.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: phil57 on Thursday 06 January 22 19:06 GMT (UK)
Addresses are on a separate page.  If you go into your search results (no extra charge) then you will see under the image "Extra Materials" and if you click on that you can see a number of options - click on "Front" and that will give you the address.  A double-sided form  :-*

This might help!

Yes, I know that, but the box on the "Front" page (Schedule) has nothing written in it at all. It is completely blank, and short of viewing all other pages in the same piece or set in the hope that I might find more information somewhere in the set, I'm stumped!
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Althea7 on Thursday 06 January 22 19:16 GMT (UK)
I will probably wait until Ancestry has it.

Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: mckha489 on Thursday 06 January 22 19:18 GMT (UK)
The only one of mine Iíve looked at as a full image has a good map, and also a description of the boundaries of the enumeration area.
Can that help localise a possible institution ?
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Jool on Thursday 06 January 22 19:24 GMT (UK)
Phil,

In the "extra materials" there is an option "Plans of Division".  On those I've downloaded it lists the streets, in your case it may even list the institution if it is large enough.

Added: Mckha, I think I have just said the same as you, but in different words  ;D
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: KGarrad on Thursday 06 January 22 19:46 GMT (UK)
I will probably wait until Ancestry has it.

That's probably a 6 year wait?
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: phil57 on Thursday 06 January 22 19:51 GMT (UK)
Thanks both. There are no Plans of Division in the extra materials for this particular record set. The cover image indicates that the piece covers part of Romford South Ward. The Romford Workhouse is shown on the maps to the SW of the town, but the workhouses.org.uk site states that Romford Union used the scattered homes system for children from 1905, and there appear to have been homes in between five and eight locations in Romford and Ilford by 1914.

I already have a page from a different piece in the 1921 census for this individual's older sister, at a scattered home in King Edward Road, Romford, also in the South Ward, so at least I know it isn't that one.

I will have to do more digging and see what comes up. I haven't been able to locate a reference for piece numbers so far.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: mckha489 on Thursday 06 January 22 20:06 GMT (UK)
The piece number etc is on the transcript of my one, but I canít see it anywhere on the actual documents.

On the document is the

Reg district & sub district and enumeration district.   (On the ďfrontĒ that you say is blank on yours)
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: melba_schmelba on Thursday 06 January 22 20:10 GMT (UK)
I have purchased three original pages of the 1921 census that apply to my grandparents and am surprised that they do not seem to display a place of residence. This was one of the reasons that I subscribed in the first place. Previous censuses had their addresses in the first column. Am I missing something?

Yes -- several previous queries / replies about this!

Open the "filmstrip" at the bottom of the screen
Click on "Extra Materials
Then select "Front" --this will give the address
I have found that the 'Front' is often not sufficient, especially in somewhere like London, where you may just get a street name and postal district on the 'Front', you also need to download the 'Cover' which gives more specific area info i.e. civil parish, borough, ward, parliamentary borough, ecclesiastical parish etc. Extra Materials also includes a map showing the sub sections of that area often highlighted in different colours.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Gadget on Thursday 06 January 22 20:22 GMT (UK)
The only one of mine Iíve looked at as a full image has a good map, and also a description of the boundaries of the enumeration area.
Can that help localise a possible institution ?

The Transcripts have very detailed maps if you scroll down to the end. You can also select which map to show -
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: phil57 on Thursday 06 January 22 20:45 GMT (UK)
The piece number etc is on the transcript of my one, but I canít see it anywhere on the actual documents.

On the document is the

Reg district & sub district and enumeration district.   (On the ďfrontĒ that you say is blank on yours)

Yes. The piece number only appears to be handwritten on the "Cover" page on the ones that I have viewed so far, but without the leading zero if the "proper" piece number consists of a zero followed by four other numbers.

The images labelled "Front" by FindMyPast are the other side of the page that the return is entered on by the householder, but for institutions the forms appear to be more a continuous set of returns with a single inside front page containing the box in which the address should have been entered. It is that address box which has not been filled in on the set I am looking at.

The piece numbers also form part of the filename of each image when downloaded.

It is possible with the previous England censuses to do a kind of reverse lookup, where by searching the piece number you can find a description of the area, but I haven't found anywhere to do that for 1921, possibly because it has only just been released.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: PaulineJ on Thursday 06 January 22 20:58 GMT (UK)
Have you tried using the national archives catalogue for piece descriptions?
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: cuffie81 on Thursday 06 January 22 21:07 GMT (UK)
The piece numbers are also part of the URLs. They're slightly obscured as the forward slashes are encoded (as %2F). If you want a simple way of making the URLs more readable just use an online URL decoder (https://www.urldecoder.io/).

Example transcript URL format:
https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=GBC/1921/RG15/01234/0567

Example image URL format:
https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=GBC/1921/RG15/01234/0567&parentid=GBC/1921/RG15/01234/0567/08

Piece number: 01234
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: phil57 on Thursday 06 January 22 21:21 GMT (UK)
Have you tried using the national archives catalogue for piece descriptions?

I couldn't find them for 1921 earlier, perhaps because my eyes have now gone out of focus. I'll return to it all tomorrow ;)
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: louisem on Thursday 06 January 22 22:09 GMT (UK)
Please could someone point me in the right direction for some info about the employment codes written on in green?
I have found a page for the codes in the Personal Occupation column but I canít find anything about the codes in the Employment column.
No doubt I am missing something simple 😊
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Boongie Pam on Thursday 06 January 22 22:41 GMT (UK)
Please could someone point me in the right direction for some info about the employment codes written on in green?
I have found a page for the codes in the Personal Occupation column but I canít find anything about the codes in the Employment column.
No doubt I am missing something simple 😊

https://archive.org/details/census-1921.-classification-of-occupations/mode/2up

197 pages of codesÖ you maybe able to get a text version in the controls underneath the book, Iíve not investigated.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: coombs on Thursday 06 January 22 23:08 GMT (UK)
I found my great, great grandfather aged 70 as an inmate in Headington, Oxfordshire. I am sure it is the workhouse down Cowley Road. I paid to see just the page his entry is on, and to get the actual address would probably mean looking through each sheet until I get to the start or end and it would mean paying for every sheet. Unless I can go to the very last or first page.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: cuffie81 on Thursday 06 January 22 23:57 GMT (UK)
Coombs, did you buy the transcript or image? If it was the image then you should be able to access the "front" page/image that has the address, as explained by Boongie Pam (https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=857098.msg7257453#msg7257453) on a earlier post.

(I'm not sure about transcripts as I haven't bought any of those.)
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Gadget on Friday 07 January 22 00:38 GMT (UK)
Transcripts have the address and location map.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Ceeoh on Friday 07 January 22 01:07 GMT (UK)
To return to the comments re cost.  As far as I recall there was no mention in the promotional material from FindMyPast that there would be a cost.  While it may seem expensive to some who are able to purchase GBP I live in South Africa and the rate of exchange is prohibitive.
At nearly 90 years of age I would dearly have liked to look for my parents, I've waited a long time and time is not on my side!!
Very disappointed  :'(


Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: PaulineJ on Friday 07 January 22 01:12 GMT (UK)
The cheapest way to pay in non-UK currency is likely to be PayPal.

That's my payment method for FindMyPast even though I'm in UK.

Pauline
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: carol80 on Friday 07 January 22 02:52 GMT (UK)
I am hit by the exchange rate as although I live in New Zealand I have to pay in $Aus. I was notified in November of an increase in exchange rate charges by my bank.
The banks make enough as it is.
I know there will be others hit by exchange rates thus putting the cost of One record out of reach.

Carol
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: mckha489 on Friday 07 January 22 06:14 GMT (UK)
My 1921s havenít come through yet Carol
But a payment last week for a probate of £1.50  turned to $2.98 plus a 6 cent offshore service margin.
 (Just using my regular debit card)
(At least the exchange rate is in our favour at present.).
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: carol80 on Friday 07 January 22 06:31 GMT (UK)
The exchange rate for UK/NZ is better than AU/NZ. I do agree it is a lot better than it was in October.
1921 should cost $7.01 plus offshore service if purchased through find my past au but have not brought any yet. Maybe later tonight as I only want 2 households at this stage.

Carol
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: mckha489 on Friday 07 January 22 06:33 GMT (UK)
Can you try logging into FindMyPast UK even though you are registered with Au?
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Ceeoh on Friday 07 January 22 07:45 GMT (UK)
Well, I paid for them - about 70 Rand.

Poor transcription, my father wrote copperplate, beautiful writing so no excuse for mistakes in transcription.

Compensation Clerk was transcribed as Corporation Clerk

The Cargo Fleet Iron Building was transcribed as The Cargo Iron Old

Mother's birth place transcribed as Guesbro instead of Guisborough (G'bro)

Person making return Mr Portcons instead of Mr Porteous

Shocking!!
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Pheno on Friday 07 January 22 09:13 GMT (UK)
Never go for the transcription always the original image.  Why pay for someone's poor transcription if you can see for yourself what is written - and you don't need both.

Pheno
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: sargie on Friday 07 January 22 09:35 GMT (UK)
I paid for 5 entries and saved them to my records, then saw that there were no addresses on them. I looked at this thread and found out how to view the address, but the Filmstrip, Extra Materials etc isnít there. It was there when I first bought the entries but isnít on them in My Records. Any ideas on how to find it would be very welcome!
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Pamela21 on Friday 07 January 22 09:40 GMT (UK)
Sargie, look them up again and you should be able to view them as before.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: phil57 on Friday 07 January 22 09:43 GMT (UK)
Are there any credit card providers in Australia and elsewhere that offer fee free currency conversion? I have two cards (I'm in the UK) that I can use for foreign currency purchases. If I buy something from abroad using Paypal, I select the option to pay in the local currency, be that euros, dollars or whatever, and my card issuer converts it to sterling at the prevailing currency exchange rate, with no additional fees.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: PaulineJ on Friday 07 January 22 09:44 GMT (UK)
(Filmstrip) was here when I first bought the entries but isnít on them in My Records. Any ideas on how to find it would be very welcome!

I've noticed that too, and I've queried it with FindMyPast.
In the interval, I've gleaned the piece and schedule from the filename,  and gone back to it that way
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: sargie on Friday 07 January 22 10:22 GMT (UK)
(Filmstrip) was here when I first bought the entries but isnít on them in My Records. Any ideas on how to find it would be very welcome!
Thanks for the replies Pamela and Pauline. I tried putting in the file name, but it didnít work, it may not be fully visible (Iím using an iPad), so I then contacted FindMyPast using their Live Chat which turned out not to be live, just a messaging service. Iíll now have to wait until they reply, which will probably be a while - there must be lots of people with the same problem!

I've noticed that too, and I've queried it with FindMyPast.
In the interval, I've gleaned the piece and schedule from the filename,  and gone back to it that way
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: BumbleB on Friday 07 January 22 10:34 GMT (UK)
Sargie - as PamelaJ says, just restart your search and you will see that your original purchase is marked up.  Just click on that and you will be taken to your original result (you won't be asked to pay again) and the filmstrip is there.

Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Pamela21 on Friday 07 January 22 10:35 GMT (UK)
If you go back and search again from scratch you can see the household you saved along with all the other bits and then save them separately. Each thing needs to be saved individually. If you haven't saved things they won't be in your records with the household.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: phil57 on Friday 07 January 22 10:40 GMT (UK)
(Filmstrip) was here when I first bought the entries but isnít on them in My Records. Any ideas on how to find it would be very welcome!

I've noticed that too, and I've queried it with FindMyPast.
In the interval, I've gleaned the piece and schedule from the filename,  and gone back to it that way

That's strange. Yesterday, on my PC, I could go into My Records, click on a 1921 Census image that I'd bought, and it would take me back to the original image page with the film strip, where I could access the extra materials. I've just tried it again this morning, and the only option it gives me is to download the single image I purchased again, so no way to revisit the additional images at all :(
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: BumbleB on Friday 07 January 22 10:49 GMT (UK)
As I said earlier - you have to start again from scratch.  So 1921 census - search for the name - select the item you have already purchased (it is marked with a tick) and you will go back to the full image plus filmstrip (you will not be asked to pay again).  From there you can select the second image you require and can download.

Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: phil57 on Friday 07 January 22 10:51 GMT (UK)
As I said earlier - you have to start again from scratch.  So 1921 census - search for the name - select the item you have already purchased (it is marked with a tick) and you will go back to the full image plus filmstrip (you will not be asked to pay again).  From there you can select the second image you require and can download.

Ah, thank you :)
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: louisa maud on Friday 07 January 22 10:52 GMT (UK)
Why  does  it  seem so  complicated, 1911  wasn't,  I  don't  need  much on there as  I  know most of the  onfo,    just  want to  find my 2 elusive relations.

Would any of the forces  be  listed  does anyone  know?

LM

Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: PaulineJ on Friday 07 January 22 11:02 GMT (UK)
A great uncle of mine shows as Royal Navy.
My grandfather is also there as  an Army Sergeant (neither are on  leave, so with other servicemen)
So I'd expect them to be there
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Jon_ni on Friday 07 January 22 11:04 GMT (UK)
Quote
Please could someone point me in the right direction for some info about the employment codes written on in green?

https://www.findmypast.co.uk/articles
1921 Census codes relating to the following are listed under the approptiate links:
British armed forces overseas
Institutions & prisons
Occupation codes
Registration Districts (RDs) and Sub-districts (SDs)
Schedule type codes

Following may also be of use A Dictionary of Occupational Terms Based on the Classification of Occupations used in the Census of Population, 1921. http://doot.spub.co.uk/
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: sargie on Friday 07 January 22 11:08 GMT (UK)
Sargie - as PamelaJ says, just restart your search and you will see that your original purchase is marked up.  Just click on that and you will be taken to your original result (you won't be asked to pay again) and the filmstrip is there.
Thanks, Iíve got them now. Itís a rather convoluted way of doing it. Iíll make sure that I look at the addresses before they go in to My Records in future!

Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: sargie on Friday 07 January 22 11:48 GMT (UK)
If you go back and search again from scratch you can see the household you saved along with all the other bits and then save them separately. Each thing needs to be saved individually. If you haven't saved things they won't be in your records with the household.
. Thanks Pamela, thatís what Iíll do in future 👍
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Pheno on Friday 07 January 22 12:15 GMT (UK)
Just go back to the start of the process and search for those people again as if it was the first time.  In the results list you should see them listed and, if you have already viewed them the camera icon will be ticked.  This means that you can view that image again without being charged again.  You then have extra materials etc available to you.

Pheno
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: coombs on Friday 07 January 22 13:27 GMT (UK)
Coombs, did you buy the transcript or image? If it was the image then you should be able to access the "front" page/image that has the address, as explained by Boongie Pam (https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=857098.msg7257453#msg7257453) on a earlier post.

(I'm not sure about transcripts as I haven't bought any of those.)

Ah thanks. I bought the image, not the transcript.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: dawnkaren on Friday 07 January 22 15:07 GMT (UK)
im feeling incredibly let down by both ancestry and find my past,  with ancestry they are my main search source/storage, and i have been with them since 2008, i had a worldwide subscription with them, i suspended my account last year as i felt that i had exhausted all i could out of them until the 1921 cencus was released,  find my past was a similar story but i tended to pay for credits as and when i needed with them.

so along comes the much awaited 6 jan 2022! and like many others wanted to continue my halted research, so i contacted ancestry to double check which level of cover would give me access to the 1921 cencus, i was told the worldwide would give me that so today with a bit more freetime i brought my account back into life! only to discover nope it doesnt give you access! none of their services do that, so i got on the phone and have been refunded.

i then go on find my past, and yes according to the screen i can pay £16.99 per month for the pro service and that gives me access on a rolling monthly basis, great so i pay for that and off i  go to search for the missing info i needed, so struggling on i decided to search for names i knew exactly where they where at the time of the cencus, nope nothing, in fact no records for the 1921 where available! what? not again, so on the phone and find out that nope you cant have access that way either. the only way is to pay the £2.50 for the transcript or the £3.50 for the copy! so it looks like im brick walled yet again and neither companies will be getting any money out of me until such a time they merge into their normal offerings for each subscription, but i just cant hep feel really let down by all the hype over this.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: BumbleB on Friday 07 January 22 15:26 GMT (UK)
Apologies - dawnkaren - BUT FindMyPast have NEVER said that the 1921 census would be free, even to those of us who have paid full subscriptions for years.  We ALL have to pay extra for results, as we had to pay for 1939 Register entries for some time, and the 1911 census for some time.  Eventually, the 1921 images will be incorporated into the normal subscription, but we don't know when, nor do we know when Ancestry may or may not have access.

If you can travel to The National Archives in London, Central Library in Manchester or somewhere (can't remember where) in Wales, then I understand that you are able to access the records for free.

Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: PaulineJ on Friday 07 January 22 15:29 GMT (UK)
I am genuinely surprised by how many people expect the 1921 to be part of a subscription from day 1.

1911 wasn't, 1939 wasn't, and there have been many discussions on the press releases prior to launch regarding their published statements about access charges.

your 16.99 for a month would get you nearly 5 census images. for me, that would remove a requirement to buy at least 3 marriage certificates and 6 birth certificates. I realise that I may be untypical, but it's a win-win for me.

Pauline

Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: dawnkaren on Friday 07 January 22 15:33 GMT (UK)
sorry  bumbleb but their advertising did say exactly that or i would nt have paid up! esp after the experience with ancestry i made sure of what i was paying for, i even shown the link to the person on the phone who agreed with me its miss leading

travel to any of the centers is out unfortunately due to covid and my health
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: phil57 on Friday 07 January 22 15:45 GMT (UK)
Have you tried using the national archives catalogue for piece descriptions?

Well I've made a little progress today. The National Archives just refer me to FindMyPast, but I found that Registration Districts and Sub-Districts for 1921 are listed in an article on FindMyPast.

So I can tell that RD191 and SD1 are Romford. But then I knew that already, because the cover page in the extra materials on FindMyPast, on which the RD,SD and ED appear, also has Romford South Ward written on it.

I've also downloaded 256MB of materials consisting of completion instructions and other administrative information for the 1921 Census from the National Archives (free). Looking through that confirms that the page I am trying to find the address for is part of a single book issued to an institution, and that the Enumeration District in that case was likely to have been solely allocated to that institution, so should be able to give me its name and address.

But nowhere can I find a list of Enumeration District allocations. The district map is no help, as it shows the Enumeration District covering the whole of Romford, with a handwritten note that the scale is too small for anything further to be shown.

So I'm pretty certain that ED 31 in the Romford South Ward is either the Romford Union Workhouse or a Romford Union Scattered Children's Home. But which?

If only the person who completed the forms had filled in the address on the correct page :(
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Marmalady on Friday 07 January 22 16:04 GMT (UK)
sorry  bumbleb but their advertising did say exactly that or i would nt have paid up! esp after the experience with ancestry i made sure of what i was paying for, i even shown the link to the person on the phone who agreed with me its miss leading

travel to any of the centers is out unfortunately due to covid and my health

This is what FindMyPast's main 1921 census page says:

Sign up with Findmypast
Get started for free. Then, access the 1921 Census from £2.50.

I do not read that as free access to the census
The "free" bit only refers to signing up to FindMyPast
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: coombs on Friday 07 January 22 16:06 GMT (UK)
I always expected to pay more for the 1921 census, and to pay to look at it online anyway, and knew it was not included in my monthly sub, not a lot in life is free.

If you want them free then be prepared to travel to TNA in Kew. It took them 3 years to transcribe the 1921 census and probably millions and millions of pounds. I am very pleased with the 1921 census. It will be the last census that will be released for a long time as the 1931 was destroyed, and no 1941 census was taken due to war.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: dawnkaren on Friday 07 January 22 16:11 GMT (UK)
sorry  bumbleb but their advertising did say exactly that or i would nt have paid up! esp after the experience with ancestry i made sure of what i was paying for, i even shown the link to the person on the phone who agreed with me its miss leading

travel to any of the centers is out unfortunately due to covid and my health

This is what FindMyPast's main 1921 census page says:

Sign up with Findmypast
Get started for free. Then, access the 1921 Census from £2.50.

I do not read that as free access to the census
The "free" bit only refers to signing up to FindMyPast

no you need to go to the page that lists the access and the 3 different price ranges, and you will then see the 1921 cencus is on that as being free for the pro subscription
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: dawnkaren on Friday 07 January 22 16:13 GMT (UK)
I always expected to pay more for the 1921 census, and to pay to look at it online anyway, and knew it was not included in my monthly sub, not a lot in life is free.

If you want them free then be prepared to travel to TNA in Kew. It took them 3 years to transcribe the 1921 census and probably millions and millions of pounds. I am very pleased with the 1921 census. It will be the last census that will be released for a long time as the 1931 was destroyed, and no 1941 census was taken due to war.

and not forgetting just how many people that simply cant travel due to the covid restriction! why miss a chance to recoup that money spent when the advertising states its free if you have the correct subscription
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: rosie99 on Friday 07 January 22 16:14 GMT (UK)
https://www.findmypast.co.uk/help/articles/360010043438-what-s-included-in-a-findmypast-subscription-
*Please note that the 1921 Census of England and Wales is not included in any subscription package. The 1921 Census is on a pay-per-view basis using Findmypast micropayments. There is more information on why the 1921 Census requires micropayments here.

Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: dawnkaren on Friday 07 January 22 16:17 GMT (UK)
https://www.findmypast.co.uk/help/articles/360010043438-what-s-included-in-a-findmypast-subscription-
*Please note that the 1921 Census of England and Wales is not included in any subscription package. The 1921 Census is on a pay-per-view basis using Findmypast micropayments. There is more information on why the 1921 Census requires micropayments here.

wow that was quick of them to change things then since having to repay me, i know they said they would be doing that but i didnt expect it to happen the same day!
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: BumbleB on Friday 07 January 22 16:20 GMT (UK)
Well done, FindMyPast  :-X
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: HarryTheBastard on Friday 07 January 22 16:38 GMT (UK)
i have looked at three records from 1921 so far and they dont seem to have as much information as 1911
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Sc00p on Friday 07 January 22 16:39 GMT (UK)
Have you tried using the national archives catalogue for piece descriptions?

Well I've made a little progress today. The National Archives just refer me to FindMyPast, but I found that Registration Districts and Sub-Districts for 1921 are listed in an article on FindMyPast.

So I can tell that RD191 and SD1 are Romford. But then I knew that already, because the cover page in the extra materials on FindMyPast, on which the RD,SD and ED appear, also has Romford South Ward written on it.

I've also downloaded 256MB of materials consisting of completion instructions and other administrative information for the 1921 Census from the National Archives (free). Looking through that confirms that the page I am trying to find the address for is part of a single book issued to an institution, and that the Enumeration District in that case was likely to have been solely allocated to that institution, so should be able to give me its name and address.

But nowhere can I find a list of Enumeration District allocations. The district map is no help, as it shows the Enumeration District covering the whole of Romford, with a handwritten note that the scale is too small for anything further to be shown.

So I'm pretty certain that ED 31 in the Romford South Ward is either the Romford Union Workhouse or a Romford Union Scattered Children's Home. But which?

If only the person who completed the forms had filled in the address on the correct page :(

In case it helps... Arthur Hesford b.c1866 was the Master of the Romford Union workhouse.  Can you see what ED he's in without paying to download?
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Marmalady on Friday 07 January 22 16:49 GMT (UK)
i have looked at three records from 1921 so far and they dont seem to have as much information as 1911

They have different information from the 1911 -- whether it is as much use will depend on your needs.

Every census has a different set of questions so you will get different info every time

Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: phil57 on Friday 07 January 22 18:06 GMT (UK)
In case it helps... Arthur Hesford b.c1866 was the Master of the Romford Union workhouse.  Can you see what ED he's in without paying to download?

Yes, he's there amongst the 606 individuals returned for the same RD, SD and ED, along with (I presume his wife) Mary Elizabeth and (daughter?) Dorothy!

Thank you Sc00p, you're a star ;D
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Davedrave on Friday 07 January 22 18:31 GMT (UK)
I was debating whether to bother with the census given that I knew pretty well where the people of most interest (grandparents and great-grandparents) were then living. However, I decided to get hold of these forms and Iím glad I did. I now know that one great-grandfather, who died of TB in 1922, had been unable to work for 5 years. I also know exactly where people worked, and various little mysteries have been cleared up, so overall money well spent.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: coombs on Friday 07 January 22 18:40 GMT (UK)
95% of mine at in the parishes I expect but it is nice to get info on their employment and their ages in months as well as years. And to see my married Oxford born ancestor in Essex and London born ancestor in Durham in 1921, whereas in 1911 they were still unmarried, one in Camden, London and the other in service in Bexhill, Sussex.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: harrywrag on Friday 07 January 22 21:16 GMT (UK)
wondering if anyone can help ive managed to send the record image to my cusson but can not manage to send the record transcript when i attach it looks like a no entry sign comes up would anyone have any idea how to send this  thank you
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: sargie on Friday 07 January 22 21:27 GMT (UK)
wondering if anyone can help ive managed to send the record image to my cusson but can not manage to send the record transcript when i attach it looks like a no entry sign comes up would anyone have any idea how to send this  thank you

I took a pic of each image with my mobile, then attached it in an email. Hope that helps 👍
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: mckha489 on Friday 07 January 22 21:31 GMT (UK)
Or, in the transcript there are TWO. buttons that say copy to clipboard.

click and paste results in email

first is for the names etc
second is for the detail of piece numbers etc.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Rogier on Friday 07 January 22 21:33 GMT (UK)
1921 Census "status"  Any other options other than "single" and "married"?

My g/mother appears as head.  Why did she not add widow?
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Rogier on Friday 07 January 22 21:35 GMT (UK)
What does this mean?:

Other records featuring that name
(1 record)

Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: JayG on Friday 07 January 22 21:42 GMT (UK)
1921 Census "status"  Any other options other than "single" and "married"?

My g/mother appears as head.  Why did she not add widow?

Column B is headed 'relationship to head of household'

Column E is headed 'marriage or orphanhood'.    Anyone aged 15 and should should be recorded as either single, married, widowed or divorced.

Jay
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: louisa maud on Saturday 08 January 22 02:00 GMT (UK)
I feel quite disappointed, I have searched where my grandparents lived and nothing comes up, my father and most of his siblings should be there , no sign of any of them, will have another check later

Louisa Maud
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: antiquesam on Saturday 08 January 22 06:33 GMT (UK)
I've only searched my father in the '21 census and it has cleared up one problem but created several more. I knew he and his two siblings were born out of wedlock, but I found a possible marriage for his mother in 1920, but the certificate gave a different name for her father so I discounted it. The census shows my father as a visitor, and his sister as an adopted daughter of another family at their address. Looking at the marriage certificate again I see she gave this address as her home and one of the witnesses was the occupant shown in '21. So the marriage of Edith Mary Coomber in Devonport is confirmed, but where on earth did she and her husband go and where is her third child Thomas William Henry Coomber who was born in 1916? Why does one mystery always create two more?
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: stonechat on Saturday 08 January 22 07:03 GMT (UK)
I am finding a few people not showing
One I can understand, mum's bigamous aunt who newly remarried maybe trying to keep a low profile.
However the same ladies brother does not appear, though by finding the rest of his household I fund him
His step daughter and her husband were listed.
I have got about 6 images, to get many more will wait for the records to be free
Just got direct ancestors and some where I am trying to solve some problem
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: normamac on Saturday 08 January 22 07:52 GMT (UK)
I feel quite disappointed, I have searched where my grandparents lived and nothing comes up, my father and most of his siblings should be there , no sign of any of them, will have another check later

Louisa Maud
[
/quote]

I had the same problem with my great grandparents but found them eventually. Their name had been transcribed wrong. 
Norma
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: stonechat on Saturday 08 January 22 07:56 GMT (UK)
I looked for my great grandmother, and could not find her or her two unmarried children who would be with her at the family bakery shop.
I found them by searching by address.
Obviously only works if you know the address
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Research Ruth on Saturday 08 January 22 11:36 GMT (UK)
I am sure this topic is on here somewhere , but what do people think about the charges for the viewing of the census. Apparently £3.50 for one view of one item. Very expensive.
I have been waiting for this like many others ,but would like to look up multiple people.
It is a bit prohibitive for those in low incomes.
Not only that, people are obliged by law to give this information and then their descendants are charged for it! This is the email I've sent to the National Archives and Find my Past:


"I am absolutely incandescent to find that you have colluded with "Find my Past" to allow them to profit from the information that was given, under duress, by our ancestors. I have made this general point several times - including to Sir Ian Diamond when we were filling in our own census forms last year. 
I resent having to pay a monthly membership fee at all, but I can understand there are costs to be covered and public money is tight, etc. Our local Council also makes the genealogy websites freely available at the central library, which is a good public service when you can get there.
Now I find that, not only is access channelled through "Find my Past", but also they are charging an additional fee for every page of the census you look at.
I have used census information in my working life and I realise that, in the grand scheme of things, providing census information to individuals has to come very low on the list of priorities. But this additional fee is just beyond a joke - it's not the money, it's the principle of the thing! Like a low-budget airline (remember those?) that charges you extra for all the amenities you would expect to be included.
I have looked at your website and am told that I can access the census at Kew, Aberystwyth or Manchester. Has nobody noticed we're in the middle of a global pandemic? I have only been out of the house half-a-dozen times during the past two years, for essential reasons and to be vaccinated. I am a 72-year-old widow who lives alone and have kept myself going largely by my family tree research. I was so looking forward to seeing the 1921 census which will have my parents on it.
You were very reasonable during the lockdown and I have taken advantage of the online access to your records which you made available at that time. 
Why have you allowed this to happen?"


 - let's see if I get any response!

Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: LizzieW on Saturday 08 January 22 11:45 GMT (UK)
Research Ruth

This is nonsense.  I had a talk about this from 6 of the people employed by Findmypast, specifically to work on the 1921 census, and it has taken them over 3 years to produce the digitised 1921 census.  First of all the census hadn't been saved very well and they had to repair many 1000s of pieces of paper before they could even start to digitise and then transcribe all the documents.  If it hadn't been FindMyPast, no doubt National Archives would have chosen another company and then the charges would probably have been even higher.  The same thing happened with the 1911 census and the 1939 register.  In fact, before the 1939 register became included in FindMyPast subscription, I actually paid nearly £40 for one record. 

I'm sorry, but if the cost is a problem, you will have to wait until FindMyPast add the 1921 census to their subscription, which might be another year.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Jon_ni on Saturday 08 January 22 12:17 GMT (UK)
Research Ruth

Did you write back in Jan 2009 about the 1911 one too, an image cost exactly the same £3.50 (likely dearer allowing for inflation) when released?
was 30 credits for each original household page and could buy 60 credits for £6.95.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2009/jan/13/census-online-archives

People were/are obliged by law to give this information for statistical purposes planning of local and national services and the records were held for 100 years by the Office for National Statistics / Statistics Board - then their descendants are charged for it when they utilise the information for genealogical purposes, which was not the reason for it being conducted.
Our ancestors were also obliged to provide BMD information to the GRO and we have to pay for digital images or copy pieces of paper of that, a common practice worldwide.

http://www2.histpop.org/ohpr/servlet/PageBrowser?path=Browse/TNA%20Census%20-%20Other%20(by%20date)/1921&active=yes&mno=3210&tocstate=expandnew&display=sections&display=tables&display=pagetitles&pageseq=147
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: BumbleB on Saturday 08 January 22 12:20 GMT (UK)
Apologies Research Ruth - but that is a load of rubbish - someone else expecting/demanding EVERYTHING for NOTHING.  :-X :-X
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Christine53 on Saturday 08 January 22 12:34 GMT (UK)
I quite agree , BumbleB. If you choose genealogy as your hobby you should expect to pay for it. I would be " incandescent " if I thought my taxes were going to pay for free access to records when there are so many other areas crying out for funding.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: JenB on Saturday 08 January 22 12:43 GMT (UK)
Quote
Now I find that, not only is access channelled through "Find my Past", but also they are charging an additional fee for every page of the census you look at.

It has been well known for quite some time a) that access would only be through Findmypast and b) that an additional fee would be charged initially for every image viewed.

 
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: antiquesam on Saturday 08 January 22 12:58 GMT (UK)
Having spent my £2.50 on the only search I needed I'm happy to wait a year or so until the census is accessible through other genealogy sites as it was with the '11 census and the '39 Register.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: coombs on Saturday 08 January 22 13:08 GMT (UK)
Research Ruth.

Poppycock. That is all I can say about the email you sent to them. Some people expect everything for gratis.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: linnet27 on Saturday 08 January 22 14:09 GMT (UK)
I totally understand why we have to pay towards all the hours of work to bring this exciting document to us.  I just wish I could find my Dad and Gran 😩

Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Gadget on Saturday 08 January 22 14:17 GMT (UK)
Would you believe it  - my husband's maternal side have cost me double. His grandfather was still at home in Trowbridge with the elder, working, children but his grandmother had hot footed it to Worcester with the other 9!***** They took ages to find as OH couldn't remember his grandparents' first names and I'd stored away his tree on another PC and external usb sticks. Luckily, his father's side was where I expected them.

***** for a holiday/visit

I've not had any problems finding my line and have even solved a puzzle about a third cousin's marital oddities and offspring before she went to Canada  :)

I don't begrudge any of the money that I've spent (I'm using a money gift) . As others have said, it has taken considerable time, effort and ££s to get it online. I was once involved in setting up a large medical database  in Scotland so I do have some understanding of the manpower and skills needed.

This is only a hobby after all !! !! !! :)
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: louisa maud on Saturday 08 January 22 14:28 GMT (UK)
This  is  my  hobby to, I  don't  consider it a   waste  of any of  my  pension, I  consider it  my  perk, I enjoy  every  minute of it including all the  frustrations and sleeplessness  nights it has given me,  plus if  I  can't sleep, which is often a  couple of   hours on research   or  on  Rootschat and back to bed I  go, I  subscribe  to 2  different  sites, worth  every  penny

LM
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Familysearch on Saturday 08 January 22 15:04 GMT (UK)
To Research Ruth:

You don't appear to have been on Rootschat for long.  Maybe you are new to family research?  If so, you will find that, like all hobbies there is a cost involved.

Just be grateful that someone has taken the time to tidy up all the records and convert them into a medium that the people of today can access readily from the comfort of their homes.

Just think of how long it would take you to look through the paper index for the information you want, assuming it was available locally.  Otherwise, a visit to London would be the only option.

I started family research in the days when the only option was to trawl through hand written ledgers at Somerset House. That was births, marriages and deaths.  Wills were stored in another place, and I don't know if the census was available for the general public to search.

Personally, I am content that I can continue updating my family information in my Covid free home!

FS
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: antiquesam on Saturday 08 January 22 15:15 GMT (UK)
Familysearch

I agree that things are certainly easier now and like all things new there is usually a premium but we do pay handsomely for the annual subscription to the genealogy sites for their endeavours in addition to GRO fees and Scotland People tokens. I assume that FindMyPast are anticipating an increase in subscribers from this operation.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Jon_ni on Saturday 08 January 22 16:06 GMT (UK)
Quote
we do pay handsomely for the annual subscription to the genealogy sites

Agreed and Findmypast are better than others at continuing to add new stuff using the funds from that https://www.findmypast.co.uk/blog/new but a project of this enormity (25% bigger than the 1911) can't really fall within that, it would not be a justifiable commercial expense in the eyes of their shareholders. Bear in mind that when Ancestry and others get the 1921 census thay will not be sorting the papers and books, conserving and digitising it, they will be provided with the images which are owned by The National Archives https://www.findmypast.co.uk/help/articles/360017985098-who-owns-the-1921-census- All they have to do is transcribe them.

Just reading the 'Learn More' well worth clicking to expand all the items then reading as explains a lot of the arrangement of the records w.r.t institutions, military and Enumeration Districts https://search.findmypast.co.uk/search-world-records/1921-census-of-england-and-wales#learn-
Answers a few of the questions asked here after people dived straight in. Ancestry are frequently rather poor about explaining their database collections and one has to look or google elsewhere for background.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Lisajj on Saturday 08 January 22 16:22 GMT (UK)
Interesting comments by members on this subject. Yes, the cost is there and initially looks expensive, but I did some of the free searching and discovered that when you hover your mouse cursor over the link to the scan or transcription page, it comes up with a little pop up box with some info in it. At the top of that box it gives you a few names and then + 4 more, or 3 more for example. For me, I only needed to do this and I had the info of the family members living there.  For example, I know that my gran was only 4 when this census was taken, so I searched for her mum and it says Annie, William, Thomas and 5 others are on this record. So I know that the siblings would all be there and I also have a rough idea of the address. I doubt whether there will be anything else on there that I am desperate to know at the moment, so I didn't pay for the image. However, there was another part of the family where I needed to know who the + 2 were! So I paid for that one.
Just a bit of fiddling here and there gets you the bare bones that may just be enough for now.
As for the actual cost, well, at the end of the day, FindMyPast are a business and they have had to employ and awful lot of people to do this, so I don't have an issue with it. And I am not exactly flush with cash either! So, I'm just making my search list, and then when I find them, make a note and each month I will buy another one or two.

If you want the house address you need to see the transcription as it doesn't appear on the scanned image!

Good luck everyone!
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Guy Etchells on Saturday 08 January 22 16:27 GMT (UK)

Not only that, people are obliged by law to give this information and then their descendants are charged for it! This is the email I've sent to the National Archives and Find my Past:

"I am absolutely incandescent to find that you have colluded with "Find my Past" to allow them to profit from the information that was given, under duress, by our ancestors. I have made this general point several times - including to Sir Ian Diamond when we were filling in our own census forms last year.

Sorry but the above is inaccurate, the contract was put out to public tender as required by law and FindMy Past won the tender, they also have to pay a licence fee for that privilege

I resent having to pay a monthly membership fee at all, but I can understand there are costs to be covered and public money is tight, etc. Our local Council also makes the genealogy websites freely available at the central library, which is a good public service when you can get there.

Your local Council may make the genealogy websites freely available but you still have to pay the search fees they are not free on your council website. Does your local council provide access to other hobbies free of charge such as motor racing or horse racing or even fishing, I very much doubt it but those housholders in your council area pay for your interests, do you not concede that is unfair on them?

Now I find that, not only is access channelled through "Find my Past", but also they are charging an additional fee for every page of the census you look at.
I have used census information in my working life and I realise that, in the grand scheme of things, providing census information to individuals has to come very low on the list of priorities. But this additional fee is just beyond a joke - it's not the money, it's the principle of the thing! Like a low-budget airline (remember those?) that charges you extra for all the amenities you would expect to be included.
I have looked at your website and am told that I can access the census at Kew, Aberystwyth or Manchester. Has nobody noticed we're in the middle of a global pandemic? I have only been out of the house half-a-dozen times during the past two years, for essential reasons and to be vaccinated. I am a 72-year-old widow who lives alone and have kept myself going largely by my family tree research. I was so looking forward to seeing the 1921 census which will have my parents on it.
You were very reasonable during the lockdown and I have taken advantage of the online access to your records which you made available at that time.
Why have you allowed this to happen?"


 - let's see if I get any response!



They have allowed it to happen because they had to the benefits were part of the contract, if any other company had won the tender they would have won the same or similar benefits.
The National Archives do not have the expertise or the funds to digitise, transcribe and host a website to provide the 1921 census, which is why it was put out to tender. Cheers
Guy
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: jane k on Saturday 08 January 22 16:29 GMT (UK)
this has already been mentioned but is obviously being missed by many people - this is how to find the home address

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=857098.msg7257453#msg7257453
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: BumbleB on Saturday 08 January 22 16:33 GMT (UK)
Lisajj - If you have purchased the image of the entry, then you can see the address by either using the > next image function, or via the filmstrip where you can choose "Extra Materials" and then "Front".  "Plans of Division" equates to the Enumerator's Walk.  This additional information is available at no extra cost.

Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Erato on Saturday 08 January 22 16:38 GMT (UK)
Here is a big advantage of having American ancestors.  1)  US law prohibits the copyrighting of documents produced by the federal government [including, for example, the censuses] and also prohibits the copyrighting of some documents produced by the states.  The individual states vary but most do not copyright any public documents.  2)  For peculiar reasons of its own, the LDS church is interested in genealogical records, transcribes them, indexes them and makes them freely available to all.  You can see any US census for free and many other records, as well.  The downside, though, is that barring the Social Security Death Index, there is no national record of vital statistics.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Jon_ni on Saturday 08 January 22 16:47 GMT (UK)
Lisajj
per Learn More as I mentioned was just reading https://search.findmypast.co.uk/search-world-records/1921-census-of-england-and-wales
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Dr Haynesí Cat on Saturday 08 January 22 17:16 GMT (UK)
Hi everyone, is anyone else finding some of their ancestors are ďmissingĒ in the 1921 census?

Iíve found some ancestors but quite a few appear to be missing. I tried keeping the search wide and using name variants but nope, no joy. Interested to hear whether or not others have experienced the same.

Thanks
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Lisajj on Saturday 08 January 22 17:29 GMT (UK)
Typical me - not reading all of the info first!
Thanks everyone :-)
I have just managed to find all the household members of one family by using the advanced options in the search.
I will now read ALL of the information given by FindMyPast before I look again :-)
(but I really do need to cook dinner before the family "starve")
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: sarah on Saturday 08 January 22 19:44 GMT (UK)
Quote
Hi everyone, is anyone else finding some of their ancestors are ďmissingĒ in the 1921 census?

Yes me too, I search for my 4 grandparents and only found the one after a lot of searching, his year of birth was 5 years out. Just putting in surnames and general areas is not bringing up the number that I had thought would have been listed.

Welcome by the way ;)
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: PrawnCocktail on Sunday 09 January 22 00:21 GMT (UK)
Quote
Hi everyone, is anyone else finding some of their ancestors are ďmissingĒ in the 1921 census?

Yes me too, I search for my 4 grandparents and only found the one after a lot of searching, his year of birth was 5 years out. Just putting in surnames and general areas is not bringing up the number that I had thought would have been listed.

Because I do a One-Place Study, I'm looking through the indexes following my small town streets, looking for a lot of people I know are there. One thing that is showing up is that some of the bithplaces indexed are wrong. I have a lot of people where only the county name is given. And some of those are wrong.

I started by getting my father's image. His mother was indexed as "London, Middlesex". Fine - except when I get the image, her birthplace is given as "London, Mayfair". The rest of the family was given as "Cheshire, Northwich", and was indexed as "Northwich, Cheshire.

Then I got one where the whole family was listed as being born in Hampshire, which I knew was rubbish. When I got that image, they were all born in Northamptonshire, and all had the villages they came from specified. All unindexed. I've attached a snip.

It would appear common sense has not been used for the index, and that there's a lot of place information missing that should have been indexed. And unless we're prepared to also buy the transcript, we can't even correct it!

We will have to use the other index fields - the place info is just a tad unreliable.

 :( :( :(
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Jon_ni on Sunday 09 January 22 03:03 GMT (UK)
Quote
the place info is just a tad unreliable

Their transcribers SBL in India (per https://fb.watch/amCFCCqx_l/ about 25 mins in) must have been using a placename gazetteer or google incorrectly as can't see any logical explaination of getting the top one right as born Newcastle upon Tyne, Northumberland, England and the next two as Gosford, Oxfordshire, England clearly an H at the end and one more letter after a stroked T. They must have used something other than https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gosforth Gosforth is a suburb of Newcastle upon Tyne.
As for Northumberland vs. Oxfordshire?

Whilst inputting expected 1921 Location brings up desired 7 results decided to see what came up with just inputting Parish as that is one of the properties displayed and unless I select  "Whitton,Tosson,Rothbury,Newtown" from the drop down that appears as type get zilch. 0 persons with Rothbury Parish or Tosson Parish. The field should be really be labelled Civil Parish in the Advanced Search to distinguish from ecclesiastical parish, as both appear on the title pages.

Keyword brings up same 7 results but may prove useful as eg Belfast brings up results where the birth place displayed is just    
[County] Antrim, Ireland or [County] Down, Ireland and residence is in England.
Did not purchase Transcription, only original image.

What new did it tell me, not much, but wasn't expecting it too, will be the more distant cousins who married a George Smith or Thomas Jones after 1911 that provide new info, but are too much off to the side to justify the £ until something takes me to that branch, got plenty of other stuff to do. Tells me the street that Great Northern Telegraph Office was on in Newcastle-upon-Tyne where Gt-grandfather worked (have his original apprenticeship parchment from 1880 and a letter congratulating 25 years service with the company postmarked Denmark 1911). Knew the family moved from Newcastle 1920/1 as stopped appearing on electoral registers 1920 and Tom's WW1 medals were posted to Rothbury 1921. Also tells me grandfather worked in the Rothbury grocers shop with his elder brother & 2 sisters before starting with Carrs Biscuits, not a great revelation. Will ran the shop till retirement, never moved, and died aged 100 so met him couple of times despite me living in Belfast. All the others moved (including his parents) before 1939. Grandmother is in Sunderland and other Grandfather in Birmingham where I expected them to be with their families like 1911, but again all moved before 1939. Might look for Gt-Gt-Grandmother Annie Thomas in Birmingham 1921 and see if other daughter is with her - no result but thought she was there May 1920 on electoral reg mmm
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Jon_ni on Sunday 09 January 22 04:51 GMT (UK)
they must have had large families in Dublin, Suffolk.
38,251 people born Optional keywords Dublin. Birth county Suffolk! Only 27,040 born in Dublin, Ireland.

Just managed to find 3rd Gt grandmother born 1833 where I expected with a daughter, but transcribed as born 1884 age 37 vs 87 I guess. The row above has a grandson aged 36 and the 3 & 8 are in no way similar, clearly not a 3, plus she is a mother [in-law] & a widow.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: stonechat on Sunday 09 January 22 06:38 GMT (UK)
I found Noah Swindells was indexed as Noah Surindelh
It defies belief
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: coombs on Sunday 09 January 22 12:38 GMT (UK)
St Helen Auckland, Durham, transcribed as St Helen Lancashire.

At least is is just a mix up of another place which has St Helen's in it. I have come across some amusing names for parishes that have never existed.

In 1851 a man in London put Vierbwike, Essex as his birthplace.

Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Guy Etchells on Sunday 09 January 22 12:43 GMT (UK)
Sorry Erato I don't understand what copyright has to do with the 1921 Census, Ancestery and othe suppliers cannot upload them due to contract requirements not due to copyright.
Cheers
Guy
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: lisalisa on Sunday 09 January 22 13:02 GMT (UK)
Has anyone found a person in the workhouse on the 1921?

If so, if you buy the original, do you get the full schedule naming everyone in the workhouse or just the one name you looked up or just the one page that includes that name?

thanks
Lisa
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: cuffie81 on Sunday 09 January 22 13:19 GMT (UK)
Lisa,

I haven't bought images for anyone in a workhouse but I have bought images where:

a) the person was in a household (a children's home but not flagged as an institution) where the number of people span two pages. I only have access to the image with my person on it and not every image for the schedule.

I would actually like to buy the other image but FindMyPast throws a error whilst showing the purchase confirmation, then re-tries and gets stuck in a loop.

b) the person was in hospital. I only have access to the image with my person on it and not every image for the schedule.


Note that for both cases I do have access to the "cover", "front", map and plan images, just not the other images with people's details.


EDIT: Just to clear, the images I have bought both are the full image and contain multiple people, and aren't cropped in anyway just to single individual.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: lisalisa on Sunday 09 January 22 13:26 GMT (UK)
Hi Cuffie,

thank you  :)
I was concerned it might only be one name.

Lisa
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: BumbleB on Sunday 09 January 22 13:30 GMT (UK)
I can confirm cuffie81 and lisalisa.  I bought a hospital patient - got the whole page, plus the access to  extra materials, but cannot see any of the other pages.

Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: phil57 on Sunday 09 January 22 13:37 GMT (UK)
Has anyone found a person in the workhouse on the 1921?

If so, if you buy the original, do you get the full schedule naming everyone in the workhouse or just the one name you looked up or just the one page that includes that name?

thanks
Lisa

You get an image of the page containing the name of the individual. There are images of additional material under the "Extra materials" link on the image viewing screen at FindMyPast. From there you should get the "Front" page which includes the address box, images of the cover and map etc.

Other pages for additional inmates etc. will be charged separately, but if you use the advanced search for the Piece number, RD, SD and ED numbers that can be found on the cover image, the search should return a list of all individuals at the institution.

For one I downloaded (Romford Union Workhouse) the address box on the front sheet had been left blank. I had to refer to the 1921 census documents on FindMyPast using the Piece and Enumeration District numbers from the cover image to find out which workhouse the images related to.

https://www.findmypast.co.uk/articles/world-records/1921-census---institutions-and-prisons

Note that many workhouses and other large institutions were allocated their own ED number, so if you know the Piece number and ED you can confirm the name of the institution directly with that information.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: coombs on Sunday 09 January 22 14:12 GMT (UK)
Has anyone found a person in the workhouse on the 1921?

If so, if you buy the original, do you get the full schedule naming everyone in the workhouse or just the one name you looked up or just the one page that includes that name?

thanks
Lisa

Yes I found my 2xgreat grandfather in the Oxford Workhouse, and had to come onto this thread to ask for advice, then found instructions about the Extra Info. I was not 100% sure it was the workhouse but when I was told about the Extra info I found it was Oxford Workhouse. I have been past where it was a few times when I visited Oxford.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: melba_schmelba on Sunday 09 January 22 14:28 GMT (UK)
It would appear common sense has not been used for the index, and that there's a lot of place information missing that should have been indexed. And unless we're prepared to also buy the transcript, we can't even correct it!

We will have to use the other index fields - the place info is just a tad unreliable.

 :( :( :(
As someone suggested earlier, I have saving all my corrections, and copying the transcript link from my records, and making a list to send to FindMyPast all in one go ;).
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Copper1 on Sunday 09 January 22 14:57 GMT (UK)
A case of "Brickbats & Bowkays" for the efforts of transcriber's and poster replies.
Why for instance are 'we' the subscriber's first & visitors next, submitting points which FindMyPast should have thought through and already uploaded the solutions? How to access institution multiple page information for instance. Excellent response post by the way from a non FindMyPast origin ie not their website.
Within this post itself there are a lot of miniscule 'wants' posted exclaiming that for them it is cheap. For others like myself there are loads and it is not cheap by any means. I would approve of blowing the trumpet for FindMyPast if the system was fair for all - at the very least a healthy bulk payment discount for 30 or 50 downloads of any category.
Whilst this is very much early days, again there has been plenty of time to get organised and think about faults which were raised in the past and Consult (note capital 'C') with normal researcher's and learn what they were expecting from this one. After all, nobody needs to line their pockets ahead of the bidding for the next licence to scan a census - do they!
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: tdgower2 on Sunday 09 January 22 15:13 GMT (UK)
For my 3x Great Grandfather John Cook, the birthplace was transcribed Dublin, Ireland.
I then looked at the original image and it was obviously Dullingham, Cambridgeshire, where i knew he was born.
I know there are millions of returns to get through but i don't see how you can get them mixed up.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: lisalisa on Sunday 09 January 22 15:20 GMT (UK)

You get an image of the page containing the name of the individual. There are images of additional material under the "Extra materials" link on the image viewing screen at FindMyPast. From there you should get the "Front" page which includes the address box, images of the cover and map etc.

Other pages for additional inmates etc. will be charged separately, but if you use the advanced search for the Piece number, RD, SD and ED numbers that can be found on the cover image, the search should return a list of all individuals at the institution.

For one I downloaded (Romford Union Workhouse) the address box on the front sheet had been left blank. I had to refer to the 1921 census documents on FindMyPast using the Piece and Enumeration District numbers from the cover image to find out which workhouse the images related to.

https://www.findmypast.co.uk/articles/world-records/1921-census---institutions-and-prisons

Note that many workhouses and other large institutions were allocated their own ED number, so if you know the Piece number and ED you can confirm the name of the institution directly with that information.

thanks phil57   :)
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: PaulineJ on Sunday 09 January 22 15:48 GMT (UK)
Copper1,
Not one of us needs any 1921 census entry.
We can choose to go without if we don't feel its good value.

And for the record, FindMyPast did Consult their users regarding 1921 access.
They then made a business decision as to what would be an appropriate charge
Pauline


Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: JayG on Sunday 09 January 22 20:27 GMT (UK)
This tells you how to report transcription errors without having purchased the transcript.

https://www.findmypast.co.uk/help/articles/4415870561041-how-was-the-1921-census-transcribed-
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Copper1 on Sunday 09 January 22 21:44 GMT (UK)
Thank you Jay, most helpful, but Pauline that was a rather unfriendly response from a stalwart on the forum. I feel a little humility would not go unrewarded in heaven.
Bless all those who try to aid enquiring members also passing through this life but once.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Jon_ni on Sunday 09 January 22 23:58 GMT (UK)
Think that is a bit much. Having replied and assisted with a few or your queries both before and since release it has to be said that one does get an impression of someone striving to find fault
Quote
ie not their website
There are flaws in the transcriptions that let the release down (or the matching of the place to a county - there are two fields for birth place and address if report an error on say 1911) but I really can't fault the digitisation, presentation, information and advice provided and all there if one looks first and asks second before making a public statement that they have been remiss on those aspects. Thanks JayG had not seen that one.
For me it would certainly be more convenient if Ancestry had won the tender and contract as my tree is there but I suspect they would run roughshod over everything as is their norm and get their developers back to DNA asap. There would still have been charges and defects.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Pamela21 on Monday 10 January 22 10:50 GMT (UK)
To Research Ruth - Post 225
I have just read this nonsense and can say how strongly I disagree with your sentiments. The replies you received on this thread have said it all. Why should you have it free when the very act of transcribing the 1921 Census took years to do and millions of pounds. Family history is a hobby and most hobbies cost money. If you don't like it then wait until it becomes available on subscription. Your complaint is absolute nonsense and I hope you get the reply you deserve.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: groom on Monday 10 January 22 12:33 GMT (UK)
I'm fed up with the 1921 census already! Not the census itself but the number of people complaining about having to pay for it and moaning about the transcriptions.

Genealogy is a hobby and as such I expect to pay for it, in much the same way I would expect to pay for other hobbies. Why would anyone expect a commercial company, who has spent millions on repairing, transcribing and digitising documents, then to allow free access? If they, or another company, hadn't taken on the contract we wouldn't be able to see the 1921 census today - as a lot of it was damaged I doubt if the National Archives would have allowed access. Even if they had, it would only be available to the few who could get to Kew, rather than to the millions all over the world who can now view it from the comfort of their homes.

Strange as well that the people moaning about the transcriptions are the same people who are putting clips on genealogical sites asking for words to be read! Often when that happens you get several suggestions as to what it says - no wonder a person transcribing had problems.

Please stop complaining and be grateful that we are able to see the 1921 census. If you really object to paying, just use the search facility for now and  wait a few more years, when it will probably be included on different sites as part of the subscription.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: BumbleB on Monday 10 January 22 12:53 GMT (UK)
Well said, groom  ;D

I did finally find an entry I was searching for, with a mis-transcription - so I've put in a correction, plus a thank you for the census.

Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: melba_schmelba on Monday 10 January 22 12:55 GMT (UK)
This tells you how to report transcription errors without having purchased the transcript.

https://www.findmypast.co.uk/help/articles/4415870561041-how-was-the-1921-census-transcribed-
Very useful thanks.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: harrison on Monday 10 January 22 13:23 GMT (UK)
I agree with you BumbleB, any hobby costs money.

In order to do Family Research I save up so as to be able to pay for certificates & other records & to subscribe to my preferred geneology site.
For many years I would save up my loose change so as to be able to purchase the many BMD certificates, it's not difficult.

It would cost me a LOT of money to have to visit the various places to view the records, whereas thanks to those who make searching a LOT of records (at a cost I might add) much easier I can do my research in the comfort of my own home.

My other hobby is Crosstitching & I have spent much more money to enable me to do that than I have paying for BMD's etc.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: PurdeyB on Monday 10 January 22 13:48 GMT (UK)
I agree the costs are fair considering the resources that has to go into making the census available. Two of my grandparents were children/young adults living at home at the time and it's definitely worth £3.50 to me to see the original records at home.

I always thought my grandad was the secondest youngest of his family but there were two younger sisters I knew nothing about.

One question - would it have been usual for the enumerator to complete the form? My great grandmother (a widow) is named as head and as the person signing the form but the writing looks identical to the enumerator's writing on the front page. I'm not sure if GG could read or write well but my grandad certainly could and was 16 so could have completed the form for her to sign but it does all look like the enumerator's writing. Or is it more likely that they both used a similar copperplate?
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Jebber on Monday 10 January 22 14:13 GMT (UK)
I too am tired of people complaining about the cost of the 1921 Census. As has already been said, any hobby costs money.

How many of the complainers pay for a coffee or a beer when they go  out? Once consumed there is nothing left to show for it, with the census there is something tangible to be referred to as often as one wishes.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: phil57 on Monday 10 January 22 15:01 GMT (UK)
To put the cost for a copy of a page from the 1921 census (which includes copies of other pages and documents listed under "Extra Materials") in context, I have today paid TNA a few pence short of £60 to make high quality copies of, and email me seven pages of a document in their collection. That doesn't include the initial fee of £8.50 I paid before Christmas for them to find the document and assess it's suitability for copying. I make that roughly £9.50 per page. Yes, viewing the documents would be free if I took time and trouble to visit TNA in person, neither of which I am inclined to do at present. If I had done so, I would have been able to sit in front of the document and take notes, but even if they allowed me to photograph it, my images would bear no comparison to the service I am paying for. I paid TNA quite a lot more than that a while ago for a copy of a will probated in the Shanghai Supreme Court.

Another example: transcripts of parish records held by Essex Record Office are held by Ancestry, and therefore free to subscribers. The images of the original documents however, are not. I can access them for free by visiting ERO in Chelmsford should I wish, but I choose for convenience to pay them £95 for an annual subscription to access them from the comfort of my own home. I also have an order currently pending with ERO for copies of documents in their possession which have not been digitised and are not otherwise available from them or anywhere else.

Last month I paid the Marine History Archive 40 Canadian Dollars to search an archive in their collection and confirm  (the absence of) an individual in a particular record on a specific date.

If I want to view and download or copy original documents, and sometimes even transcripts, I find that some may be available on FindMyPast and I need a subscription to view them, Others that are not on FindMyPast may be available at Ancestry. Ditto The Genealogist etc. I can also find many of those collections elsewhere without having to take out a subscription to any of those companies, but I still have to pay for many of them. Local family history societies will charge me for copies of CDs or USB pens containing the information which, by their agreements with FindMyPast or Ancestry, I could also obtain from those providers with a subscription. Others, which are often also on one of the major subscription sites, I can purchase from specialist genealogical database suppliers, per item or part thereof.

Why should anyone think they have an entitlement to free access to anything, just because they have paid a subscription to a third party whose agreement with the original repository, and conditions for copying, hosting and permitting access will all vary according to the repository or type of material concerned, and other arrangements? As TNA explain on their website, "As a government department, we are obliged to charge for some of our public services, including research and record copying. The prices we charge for some of our services are set out by the Fees Regulations under the Public Records Act (1958) and are based on recovering the costs of providing these services. Digitising paper records is costly, and normally involves additional cataloguing and transcription work to ensure that the records are searchable. When we decide to digitise a collection of records, we either work with commercial and academic publishing partners or we do the work ourselves and make digital copies available to download from our website through Discovery".

FindMyPast made a successful bid to digitise and transcribe the 1921 Census under the terms as described above. As a business, they will have a business model which takes account of how much their bid will have cost them and how much to charge for access to the collection to either recover or mitigate some of the cost of that process. They aren't a charity. If they or another commercial partner hadn't become involved in transcribing and digitising the census, we would be paying TNA directly for copies at a similar cost to that I have quoted above.

But if we want to view them for free, we can. Don't go through FindMyPast. Just visit TNA, the Manchester Library or the National Library of Wales ;)
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Sloe Gin on Monday 10 January 22 19:14 GMT (UK)
I don't have any complaints about the cost.  I don't really need to see anything urgently at the moment, I can wait until the price comes down. 

But it's disappointing to see this again:

"When transcription of the 1921 Census of England and Wales took place, each digital image had to be broken up into segments so that the person transcribing it could not see a whole record or household. This was to ensure we complied with security and data protection regulations but also why you might see various spellings of the same surname or street address on one record, because it has been transcribed by multiple people without the context of the whole record."  >:(

https://www.findmypast.co.uk/help/articles/4415870561041-how-was-the-1921-census-transcribed-

No wonder the transcriptions are full of errors!  The more you can see of a person's handwriting, the better.  Comparing the way they form their letters makes it much easier to interpret unclear words and produce a more accurate transcription.  And if there is different handwriting on the same page, that can help too.  Preventing the transcriber from seeing the whole page is putting serious obstacles in the way of accuracy. 

Data protection!  ::) Does it really matter after all this time.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Pamela21 on Monday 10 January 22 19:23 GMT (UK)
Well said Phil57. People seem to have no idea of the amount of work that goes into transcribing details of the whole population one page at a time. I have already posted this but will post again for anyone who missed it and I suggest they watch it all the way through:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdkpePDervc
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Primrose11 on Tuesday 11 January 22 15:59 GMT (UK)
I don't have any complaints about the cost.  I don't really need to see anything urgently at the moment, I can wait until the price comes down. 

But it's disappointing to see this again:

"When transcription of the 1921 Census of England and Wales took place, each digital image had to be broken up into segments so that the person transcribing it could not see a whole record or household. This was to ensure we complied with security and data protection regulations but also why you might see various spellings of the same surname or street address on one record, because it has been transcribed by multiple people without the context of the whole record."  >:(

https://www.findmypast.co.uk/help/articles/4415870561041-how-was-the-1921-census-transcribed-

No wonder the transcriptions are full of errors!  The more you can see of a person's handwriting, the better.  Comparing the way they form their letters makes it much easier to interpret unclear words and produce a more accurate transcription.  And if there is different handwriting on the same page, that can help too.  Preventing the transcriber from seeing the whole page is putting serious obstacles in the way of accuracy. 

Data protection!  ::) Does it really matter after all this time.

I quite agree !!
I have only searched two of my ancestors and both are wrongly transcribed - Daniel is transcribed as David, and Selwyn as Evelyn, despite having the second Christian name Harold, which makes Evelyn an unlikely first name. Also his brother Randall Drury {surname} is transcribed as Randall Daisy.
P
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: louisa maud on Tuesday 11 January 22 16:21 GMT (UK)
I  feel this census  must  have  been really badly  written in the first place,  people transcribing there documents  do  the  best they can.

I remember  years ago I was an admin clerking in  a travel agents, had  no training  and hardly travelled,  I  had to enter every detail about our clients  onto card, when I asked the temporary manager where a  certain  place was the   reply almost  was ,  I  didn't  know  much, I  did the right think and asked otherwise  I  could  have made it up

LM
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: PaulineJ on Tuesday 11 January 22 16:25 GMT (UK)
I quite agree !!
I have only searched two of my ancestors and both are wrongly transcribed - Daniel is transcribed as David, and Selwyn as Evelyn, despite having the second Christian name Harold, which makes Evelyn an unlikely first name. Also his brother Randall Drury {surname} is transcribed as Randall Daisy.
P

Apart from say the author Evelyn Waugh?
Evelyn is a unisex name
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Marmalady on Tuesday 11 January 22 16:41 GMT (UK)

I quite agree !!
I have only searched two of my ancestors and both are wrongly transcribed - Daniel is transcribed as David, and Selwyn as Evelyn, despite having the second Christian name Harold, which makes Evelyn an unlikely first name. Also his brother Randall Drury {surname} is transcribed as Randall Daisy.
P

Evelyn can also be a male name -- think of Evelyn Waugh

My Grandmother had a brother Evelyn
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: BumbleB on Tuesday 11 January 22 16:54 GMT (UK)
My great grandfather was called Alison (Appleyard).  And his cousin was Allison (Appleyard).  Both named, I suspect, for their grandmother's maiden surname of Allenson.

Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Jebber on Tuesday 11 January 22 17:15 GMT (UK)
Unisex names must be a nightmare for foreign transcribers, or those unaccustomed to them.

Just a few old names, Marion, Vivian, Shirley and Florence, then there are spelling variations to contend with.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Familysearch on Tuesday 11 January 22 18:08 GMT (UK)
Decided to take a bit of a leap of faith - and ordered an entry for a person that I know was born in Lichfield, Staffordshire. (The only record I could find was stating birthplace of Sheffield, Yorkshire!)

Couldn't believe my eyes when I entered the name and date of birth - up it came with the correct place of birth!

Does that mean that someone has corrected the wrong transcription - and more importantly, it has been acted on so quickly?  I am 99.999% sure that my searches were consistent!

That, incidentally, was to be my last record for a while.  I set a limit financially and only looking for the closest relatives - and those whom I had met.

That is so satisfying.

Happy hunting to you all!

FS
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: louisa maud on Tuesday 11 January 22 18:14 GMT (UK)
Good result then
Happy hunting

LM
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Sloe Gin on Wednesday 12 January 22 09:42 GMT (UK)
I  feel this census  must  have  been really badly  written in the first place,  people transcribing there documents  do  the  best they can.

I'm not blaming the transcribers.  I'm saying they have been seriously handicapped from doing a good job.
I also think think that ideally transcribers should be recruited from the same country that the documents originate from, as they will be more familiar with names, places etc.

Apart from say the author Evelyn Waugh?
Evelyn is a unisex name

Yes - his wife's name was also Evelyn!
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: linnet27 on Wednesday 12 January 22 11:31 GMT (UK)
Good result FS!  I am searching for my Dad aged 9 months and his Mum and absolutely no sign of either of them  :(

I will keep trying!
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Familysearch on Wednesday 12 January 22 12:21 GMT (UK)
I do still have a few missing, but for the time being the budget has been used!

I have found out a few things that I didn't know before, and also information that reminds me of what my Mum told me about her relatives from when she was a child.

Hope you find your missing ones.

FS.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: rogerb on Wednesday 12 January 22 12:53 GMT (UK)
Managed to find all 11 of my direct ancestors spread over 7 households.  So about £25 - which I'm ok with.  No massive breakthroughs although I did find one grandparent not living where I expected, which gave me some food for thought.  Also found a G grandfather in hospital, only a few months before he died.

In general, slightly underwhelmed by the level of info within the returns.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: BumbleB on Wednesday 12 January 22 13:01 GMT (UK)
Not sure if anyone has noted this amendment on this thread - a change of title for the additional images - now reads as "Extra (Address)" and still contains all the other associated images.


Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: PaulineJ on Wednesday 12 January 22 13:57 GMT (UK)
Also, if you go to "My Records" and click on the 1921 image it takes you back to the image & filmstrip.
It had been showing/ downloading the pdf of the image up till ? Yesterday ? ( no filmstrip)

Pauline

Also had acknowledgement of my first correction reported via image rather than transcript.  I'm advised itmaytake a little time to update in the dataset
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Gadget on Wednesday 12 January 22 14:01 GMT (UK)
Also, if you go to "My Records" and click on the 1921 image it takes you back to the image & filmstrip.
It had been showing/ downloading the pdf of the image up till ? Yesterday ? ( no filmstrip)

Pauline


I've juat been in without filmstrip to check. Print to pdf is via the printer icon. Also, you can downlsad/view via the down arrow icon.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: coombs on Wednesday 12 January 22 14:18 GMT (UK)
My great grandfather was a general labourer later a painter, but I found him in the 1921 census as a bargeman's mate on the Duke Of Kent barge, and his older brother was the master. His older brother is found in the 1915 register of merchant seaman as being on the SS Ivernia travelling between London, Cardiff and Liverpool. My great grandad was only 15 in 1915 and is not on the list.

Amazing what surprises the 1921 census can bring, or any document mentioning an ancestor in an occupation you never knew they had for a time.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: california dreamin on Wednesday 12 January 22 17:33 GMT (UK)
I agree the costs are fair considering the resources that has to go into making the census available. Two of my grandparents were children/young adults living at home at the time and it's definitely worth £3.50 to me to see the original records at home.

I always thought my grandad was the secondest youngest of his family but there were two younger sisters I knew nothing about.

One question - would it have been usual for the enumerator to complete the form? My great grandmother (a widow) is named as head and as the person signing the form but the writing looks identical to the enumerator's writing on the front page. I'm not sure if GG could read or write well but my grandad certainly could and was 16 so could have completed the form for her to sign but it does all look like the enumerator's writing. Or is it more likely that they both used a similar copperplate?

I think I can answer this for you - the front page with the name and address have been written out by the enumerators.  The householder filled in the main section.  This information was passed on to me by someone who works at FindMyPast.

CD
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: stonechat on Thursday 13 January 22 11:44 GMT (UK)
Well I can find most of the ones Imwant except my gt grandfather Richard Bond Cocks. His son of the same name is there.

He moves around too much to know just where he might be.
Just before this date he was in Manchester and Bredbury, but died in hospital in1925in Leicester.
I have two Leicester addresses for him but cannot really be searching until there is no charge or I get to the National Archives, which will have to wait until covid rates are much lower.

I tried searching with his (fourth) wife, but donít know that much about her, they only married in 1919.

Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: roopat on Thursday 13 January 22 15:26 GMT (UK)
I've been very pleased with the 1921 census for a few reasons: 1) I don't have to subscribe to FindMyPast to access the records so I think the price per record is very good value. I don't know why people are complaining, £3.50 is the price of a coffee in some places    2)  The site didn't crash when I went on the day after its release   3) I was able to see enough free info (who else was in the household) to decide which were 'my' records so didn't waste money     4). Best of all - it confirmed that GGranny Sweeney WAS born in Carlisle as my mother always said, in spite of various censuses stating Newcastle or Northumberland - so I was able to find her birth on the GRO and will be getting the bc as she is a bit of a mystery. For me that small detail was a big leap forward!


Pat
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: cuffie81 on Thursday 13 January 22 17:50 GMT (UK)
Well I can find most of the ones I want except my gt grandfather Richard Bond Cocks.

Have you considered the one in this household? The ages of Richard and Mary are off slightly but I wonder if they were trying to close the gap (the marriage record has a 14 year difference).

Altrincham, Bucklow, Cheshire

Ebenezer Warburton; born c1890, Cadishead, Lancashire
Emma Ann Warburton; born c1889, Irlam, Lancashire
Andrew Warburton; born c1914, Broadheath, Cheshire
Meiviam Warburton; born c1919, Broadheath, Cheshire
Richard Cocks; born c1858, Denton, Lancashire
Mary Cocks; born c1866, Londonderry, Ireland

All info from free searches.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: stonechat on Thursday 13 January 22 18:08 GMT (UK)
Well I can find most of the ones I want except my gt grandfather Richard Bond Cocks.

Have you considered the one in this household? The ages of Richard and Mary are off slightly but I wonder if they were trying to close the gap (the marriage record has a 14 year difference).

Altrincham, Bucklow, Cheshire


Ebenezer Warburton; born c1890, Cadishead, Lancashire
Emma Ann Warburton; born c1889, Irlam, Lancashire
Andrew Warburton; born c1914, Broadheath, Cheshire
Meiviam Warburton; born c1919, Broadheath, Cheshire
Richard Cocks; born c1858, Denton, Lancashire
Mary Cocks; born c1866, Londonderry, Ireland

All info from free searches.

Hmm will look into in, I have a Richard Bond in Southport, but the Mary there seems the wrong age
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: collin on Sunday 16 January 22 00:15 GMT (UK)
 I think the 1921 census gives a false picture because I know my great grandparents always had lodgers to help with the rent upto the 1930s but they don't appear on the form, they will have their own form as a separate household. I realised this because my other great grandparents were in lodgings but are on a form to themselves described as boarders. On previous census they seemed to list everybody in the house on one form.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: stonechat on Sunday 16 January 22 07:07 GMT (UK)
If you read the instructions  o enumerators it appears tha boarders should be on the same form. My boarders are shown on same page
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Crumblie on Sunday 16 January 22 10:08 GMT (UK)
The latest issue of WDYTYA magazine has an article about the census, part of which says that many family historians will find their ancestors were not at home on census day but in a hotel or guest house due to it being carried out in the summer.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: groom on Sunday 16 January 22 11:51 GMT (UK)
The latest issue of WDYTYA magazine has an article about the census, part of which says that many family historians will find their ancestors were not at home on census day but in a hotel or guest house due to it being carried out in the summer.

I wonder how many were missed because of that, especially if they were camping or self catering?
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Gadget on Sunday 16 January 22 13:08 GMT (UK)


I wonder how many were missed because of that, especially if they were camping or self catering?

It would be interesting to find out how many people went camping  or self catered in 1921 and their social distribution.

Add - I did find some of my mother in law's family visiting relatives.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Gadget on Sunday 16 January 22 13:21 GMT (UK)
I've found this on Wiki about  holiday camps:

Quote
Opened in 1906 by John Fletcher Dodd, Caister Camp in Caister-on-Sea, Norfolk was one of the first permanent camps under canvas (tents), initially catering for men only, it would later open up to families and advertise itself as "The Oldest Established Camp".[3] By the early 1920s, Caister Camp and others around the country were beginning to include hut-based accommodation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holiday_camp
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Marmalady on Sunday 16 January 22 14:58 GMT (UK)


I wonder how many were missed because of that, especially if they were camping or self catering?

It would be interesting to find out how many people went camping  or self catered in 1921 and their social distribution.



A photo taken by my Grandfather in 1921 "Camping at Grassington. 1921"

It features his future wife (centre), his sister & her husband, a brother and a friend

In the 1921 census , my Grandfather was an unemployed art student, my grandmother worked in a solicitor's office.
Whilst not dirt-poor, the families were by no means well-off
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: louisa maud on Sunday 16 January 22 15:41 GMT (UK)
I think that possibly Maddiesons holiday camp opened about this time in Hemsby near Yarmouth, I stand to be corrected though

Louisa Maud
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Gadget on Sunday 16 January 22 16:12 GMT (UK)
Something about holidays in 1921 here:

https://mlfhs.uk/blog/1921-census-industrial-holidays-of-the-north

Scroll down to:

1921 census - Why aren't my family at home?
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: BumbleB on Sunday 16 January 22 16:22 GMT (UK)
Apologies, Marmalady, I love the camping photograph BUT it always amazes me that the wearing of formal hats was so prevalent at that time.  Camping in the wilds, BUT you had to wear your hat  :o ;D ;D

ADDED:  I've just remember that I have a photograph of my grandfather, sitting on the sand at the seaside BUT wearing a 3-piece suit!!!!
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: louisa maud on Sunday 16 January 22 16:34 GMT (UK)
The  first proper holiday camp in the country, Hemsby was opened back in 1920 by Harry Maddieson. The little 9 acre full-board camp, no tents, continued to be run by the Maddieson family for 50 years until being sold to Pontins around 1970, .

I went with 3 friends and a set of parents to Maddison's in 1960, I made friends with a lad there who was holidaying on is own, I wrote to him as did one of my friends but after a few months he came to London and we started going out together, we married in 1964, we went back for our first anniversary, there was no takers so I had to bring him back !!!!!. I discovered that my husband was actually related to the Maddieson's , uncle Harry was his Gt uncle. as mentioned above it closed about 1970 and was bought by Pontins, just across from Maddison's was another camp called Seacroft, a privately run camp, they had football and cricket matches against each other, it was huge fun

Nothing at all to do with the 1921 but holidays were mentioned

Louisa Maud



 
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Gadget on Sunday 16 January 22 16:35 GMT (UK)
What's also interesting in the link I posted above, is mention of the way the census was analysed. The 1911 did use partial mechanical analysis but the1921 was the first to use complete mechanical statistical analysis, using Hollerith cards. I recall using them even as late as the early 1970s.

https://mlfhs.uk/blog/census-1921-how-the-census-was-processed
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: cuffie81 on Sunday 16 January 22 17:11 GMT (UK)
What's also interesting in the link I posted above, is mention of the way the census was analysed. The 1911 did use partial mechanical analysis but the1921 was the first to use complete mechanical statistical analysis, using Hollerith cards. I recall using them even as late as the early 1970s.

https://mlfhs.uk/blog/census-1921-how-the-census-was-processed

TNA has a document (https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C3716641) that details the forms and instructions for the census, which includes a couple of images of the machines used.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Gadget on Sunday 16 January 22 18:23 GMT (UK)
 ;D

The readers I used were a little bit more modern than that

 ;D
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: KGarrad on Sunday 16 January 22 18:35 GMT (UK)
The  first proper holiday camp in the country, Hemsby was opened back in 1920 by Harry Maddieson. The little 9 acre full-board camp, no tents, continued to be run by the Maddieson family for 50 years until being sold to Pontins around 1970, .


Pre-dated by Cunningham's Holiday Camp which opened at Howstrake, Isle of Man in 1898!
Had a seated escalator installed in 1919.

See: http://www.mike-caine.com/howstrake-international-camp/
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: stonechat on Sunday 16 January 22 20:20 GMT (UK)
Well I can find most of the ones I want except my gt grandfather Richard Bond Cocks.

Have you considered the one in this household? The ages of Richard and Mary are off slightly but I wonder if they were trying to close the gap (the marriage record has a 14 year difference).

Altrincham, Bucklow, Cheshire

Ebenezer Warburton; born c1890, Cadishead, Lancashire
Emma Ann Warburton; born c1889, Irlam, Lancashire
Andrew Warburton; born c1914, Broadheath, Cheshire
Meiviam Warburton; born c1919, Broadheath, Cheshire
Richard Cocks; born c1858, Denton, Lancashire
Mary Cocks; born c1866, Londonderry, Ireland

All info from free searches.

Thanks these are indeed mine thanks.
He was a Clerk of the Works for Altrincham Council, boarding with the Warburtons.
Mary is the interesting one. I have her parents and she married inSt Annís Cathedral Belfast. Not sure when she was widowed or came to England
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Jon_ni on Sunday 16 January 22 21:52 GMT (UK)
Detail about working with and digitising the 1921 Census & security processes https://www.lostcousins.com/newsletters2/midjan22news.htm#Rigden
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Jon_ni on Wednesday 19 January 22 15:01 GMT (UK)
I watched a Findmypast video interview with the conservators https://www.facebook.com/findmypast/videos/4610462089008749
People were in all sorts of strange places away from their families eg Agatha Christie. They mention boys at Scout Camps, young men sleeping off a heavy night in police cells, travelling salesman en route sleeping in his car etc.

I found my Gt grandfather listed in Northallerton when his wife and youngest are at home in Sunderland and residing with strangers not relations. As is inland is strange place for a senior Marine Engineer to be though the Head did seem to have an industral connection ref. his entry 1911 southern England. Not invested in the image or transcript for him.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Sloe Gin on Thursday 20 January 22 12:38 GMT (UK)
I wasn't able to find my grandmother with any certainty.  She was a childless widow whose parents were both dead, and she isn't with her brothers or her future husband's (my grandfather) family.  Her first husband had died of the Spanish flu and his parents were already dead when they married.

It was quite exciting to find someone of the right name, age and birthplace with a family of the same surname as my grandfather, whom she would marry a couple of years later.  Was this a previously unknown branch of my family?  "Widow" didn't come up as a match, but you can't rely on every detail being entered or transcribed correctly, so I squandered £3.50 on the image.  But alas, it wasn't her.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: louisa maud on Thursday 20 January 22 13:02 GMT (UK)
Geronimo,  found  one of  my  long lost Charles but miss spelt, what  he  was  doing in Norfolk  I   really  don't know, I will print the full details later  but  I  suggest he was  being  fostered .

LM
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: jonw65 on Thursday 20 January 22 13:06 GMT (UK)
I told you to look in Norfolk, LM!

it's really a wait for the 1921 census to be released - you should at least get hold of Charles junior in that, hopefully in Norfolk.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: louisa maud on Thursday 20 January 22 13:38 GMT (UK)
Yes, you  did, i  don't  know  how  you found  out he  was  in Norfolk  prior to 1921, he was  miss spelt as  he  was  in 1945  when  I  caught  up with  him in North Allerton where  he  died ,

LM
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: nestagj on Friday 21 January 22 10:55 GMT (UK)
I found my grandparents who had married on the 1st June 1921 together near Liverpool.    I knew they had married in Liverpool but assumed that it was away day ! I was so surprised not to find them in their hometown in coastal North West Wales near Porthmadog...the owner of the house where they were living worked for Meccano and was Danish!   He was a seaman (which we knew) and she was working as a housemaid in the property.

If the census had been taken in April as it was supposed to be they wouldn't have been together.   

There was a very interesting webinar yesterday by the National Library of Wales from a family  historian from FindMyPast;; very enjoyable.   I believe it will be available on the NLW website at some stage.
N
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: suey on Friday 21 January 22 21:47 GMT (UK)

Found my grandmother, she has her youngest child with her.  We thought that this babe was taken into care and adopted or farmed out. Really surprised to find her with her mother.  I have looked at all available images, odd, no head of household or address has been filled in on the front page.  Granny and her daughter are the only two females on the page, the rest are all men, mostly factory workers, labourers or farm workers, all are described as lodgers. 
The page has been filled in by the same hand, most likely the enumerator.
I have access to five images.
The previous image is a blank schedule and the one before that is a family with six children and two lodgers, although they both appear to be working for the family.

Looks likely that Granny is still transient, job to job, place to place, at least she was partly honest with her answers although she seems to have forgotten that she had three children and not two as stated ::)
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: IgorStrav on Saturday 22 January 22 13:27 GMT (UK)
https://genealogyjude.com/2022/01/22/the-1921-census-in-the-news/

Apologies if this has already been posted, but very interesting article about the public reaction to the 1921 census.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: louisa maud on Saturday 22 January 22 14:01 GMT (UK)
That is  very  interesting to read

Does  anyone  know or admit to what streets or areas are  missing?,  whilst I have their info  my paternal  grandparents  and their children are  all missing which  means  I  can't  find  my father

LM
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: melba_schmelba on Saturday 22 January 22 15:17 GMT (UK)
That is  very  interesting to read

Does  anyone  know or admit to what streets or areas are  missing?,  whilst I have their info  my paternal  grandparents  and their children are  all missing which  means  I  can't  find  my father

LM
If you can post or pm his details others might be able to find something?
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: louisa maud on Saturday 22 January 22 16:00 GMT (UK)
THANK  YOU MS, details as  follows


JENKINS
ALFRED CHARLES
BORN 1907
MOTHER HARRIETT
FATHER  JOHN
SIBLINGS, CHARLOTTE BORN 1909, ANN (NANCY) ABOUT 1905, EDITH 1912 ISH

PADDINGTON , LONDON AREA

Thank you

LM
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: rosie99 on Saturday 22 January 22 16:10 GMT (UK)
Charlotte Jeukuis bn 1909 - she is in Paddington

also transcribed with same surname
Alfred 1907
Edith 1912
Hannah 1904
Harriett 1870
John Charles 1869
Susan 1894
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: louisa maud on Saturday 22 January 22 16:18 GMT (UK)
Thank  you Rosie, i  have  looked for my family on and off, miss transcribed,  many thanks, second one of  my mysteries  both miss transcribed

LM
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: rosie99 on Saturday 22 January 22 16:23 GMT (UK)
I was pleased that I was able to find it LM  ;D
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: louisa maud on Saturday 22 January 22 16:29 GMT (UK)
Huge thank  you, it seems the N is  showing as a U, will rectify it  but I assume they are  busy

LM
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: rosie99 on Saturday 22 January 22 16:30 GMT (UK)
At least they will change it if they think what we say is right  ;D
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Sloe Gin on Wednesday 26 January 22 01:46 GMT (UK)
I wasn't able to find my grandmother with any certainty.  She was a childless widow whose parents were both dead, and she isn't with her brothers or her future husband's (my grandfather) family.  Her first husband had died of the Spanish flu and his parents were already dead when they married.

It was quite exciting to find someone of the right name, age and birthplace with a family of the same surname as my grandfather, whom she would marry a couple of years later.  Was this a previously unknown branch of my family?  "Widow" didn't come up as a match, but you can't rely on every detail being entered or transcribed correctly, so I squandered £3.50 on the image.  But alas, it wasn't her.

Further to this, I tried again, putting "widowed" rather than "widow" and this time I got a result.  But when I downloaded the image - she wasn't there.  There was nobody who remotely matched my search.  Two people with the correct surname, both male.  One widow with entirely different names, who was included in the preview anyway. 

How could they get it so wrong?  I'll be seeking a refund.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Rena on Wednesday 26 January 22 19:30 GMT (UK)
I only wanted one census and now that I've printed it off I can scarcely see what I've paid for because of its size. 

"Fit to page" on all other census meant there was no margin on any of the four sides, unlike this one where the top and bottom margins are extremely generous to say the least.

This English census only lists the three youngest brothers and not five.  Thus it confirms what my father told me and that was,  he and his brothers were sent away to live with an aunt up in Glasgow to finish their education and then to start an apprenticeship in Glasgow.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Jebber on Wednesday 26 January 22 19:51 GMT (UK)
I imagine you have just printed it from the image on screen. If you download it you can adjust the size of the image, you also want to down load the othe pages connected to the image.
 You can go back and do it again, once your have paid for the image you can go and download it as often as you like.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: stonechat on Wednesday 26 January 22 20:53 GMT (UK)
Well looking for my (later) bigamous great aunt, Annie Goodwin (nee Cocks)
Not able to find her up to now.
Her husband Eli Goodwin was visiting his brother Samuel, in Eliís home town Duffield. It sayís Eli was a clerk at the Labour exchange in Derby.
Well Annieís not there, found one born in Derby, should be Dukinfield.

I checked the 1911 census, and she is clearly part of another family.
Another possible was born in right place but much too old, and found her in earlier census too.
Ah well.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: melba_schmelba on Wednesday 26 January 22 21:54 GMT (UK)
I imagine you have just printed it from the image on screen. If you download it you can adjust the size of the image, you also want to down load the othe pages connected to the image.
 You can go back and do it again, once your have paid for the image you can go and download it as often as you like.
I think I know what Rena means. The rows are much wider than in the old censuses so the page is much wider, so when you print it out the writing can be quite small, unless you have an A3 printer.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: Jon_ni on Wednesday 26 January 22 23:40 GMT (UK)
Quote
now that I've printed it off I can scarcely see what I've paid for because of its size. 

That is a reflection of the original imperial page size, look at the videos of the ledgers they opened. The pages were large, the cover with the address and guidelines is the other side and they were folded in 3. On the video they look longer than A3 landscape but smaller in height perhaps Double Foolscap or Foolscap and Half. A4 & A3 sized paper was adoped UK with metrication but I have notes on foolscap paper pads & binders into the mid 1980's.
I think Findmypast said even they had to use special sheet feed scanners.

Left margin could be cropped using appropiate editing software or chop off the large right column with all the boxes for inserting X's. Alternatively print on 2 pages. I intend just saving & storing as an image.

Quote
"Fit to page" on all other census meant there was no margin on any of the four sides, unlike this one where the top and bottom margins are extremely generous to say the least.
The 1911 census did also suffer similar top & bottom margin problems if try to print, though not as extreme, and the 1921 is even longer with the extra right column for carding purposes. All the older census are from summary ledgers.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: stonechat on Saturday 29 January 22 14:23 GMT (UK)
Latest find has thrown up a rather sad story

My great uncle William Henry Pullen ĎWillí I knew had passed the latter years of his life in mental institutions.
My aunt knew a bit more and said that after he married, he had 2 children. I never managed to find them.
Now I find him in1921 in what became Ashford Hospital, previously part of the Poor Law setup.
He remained there until 1939 at least and was later at Tooting Bec mental hospital.

Now I found his wife and all became clear.
She had two children by a previous marriage, and one by Will, just 7 months old when her father was institutionalised.
Research into husband no 1, found they married in1912, had two children, husband Thomas died in 1915 just before his son was born. So Margaret the wife had lost one husband to the war and another to Mental illness, the kids too, losing father/stepfather. All very sad
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: melba_schmelba on Saturday 29 January 22 15:45 GMT (UK)
Latest find has thrown up a rather sad story

My great uncle William Henry Pullen ĎWillí I knew had passed the latter years of his life in mental institutions.
Did he serve in the 1st World War? It could have been shell shock/PTSD.
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: stonechat on Saturday 29 January 22 16:13 GMT (UK)
Latest find has thrown up a rather sad story

My great uncle William Henry Pullen ĎWillí I knew had passed the latter years of his life in mental institutions.
Did he serve in the 1st World War? It could have been shell shock/PTSD.

No he twice enlisted and was each time discharged as unfit for war duties due to epilepsy
Never on active service
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: louisa maud on Saturday 29 January 22 17:08 GMT (UK)
A member  of  my  family signed  up pre  1st  World  was and  was deemed to be unfit, it  didn't stop  them signing him up for the war and  he  gave  his  life  for  his country ,  I  find  that incredibly sad

Louisa  Maud
Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: stonechat on Sunday 30 January 22 06:58 GMT (UK)
Latest find has thrown up a rather sad story

My great uncle William Henry Pullen ĎWillí I knew had passed the latter years of his life in mental institutions.
My aunt knew a bit more and said that after he married, he had 2 children. I never managed to find them.
Now I find him in1921 in what became Ashford Hospital, previously part of the Poor Law setup.
He remained there until 1939 at least and was later at Tooting Bec mental hospital.

Now I found his wife and all became clear.
She had two children by a previous marriage, and one by Will, just 7 months old when her father was institutionalised.
Research into husband no 1, found they married in1912, had two children, husband Thomas died in 1915 just before his son was born. So Margaret the wife had lost one husband to the war and another to Mental illness, the kids too, losing father/stepfather. All very sad

This sad tale just got worse.
I had only looked for the youngest, the daughter of Will on Ancestry in the 1939. Looked on Findmypast and there she was.
Botley's Park Colony for Mental Defectives. Somehow she was my hope for better times for the family, it was a real blow. Maybe gt some bad genes from Dad.

Title: Re: 1921 census
Post by: ThrelfallYorky on Sunday 30 January 22 14:32 GMT (UK)
? How do I mark this so that I don't get it popping up any longer? I thought I'd done it with "un-notify" a week or so ago, but it seemed to take no notice - and now that option no longer seems there?
Tried again - hope it manages it this time
TY