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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Roscommon => Topic started by: Formernewyorker on Saturday 08 January 22 02:44 GMT (UK)

Title: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: Formernewyorker on Saturday 08 January 22 02:44 GMT (UK)
Hi,

My father Michael Nevin was born in Corbo Kilroosky Roscommon in 1913. My father came to the US when he was 17. His mother died when he was 3 and his father when he was 11.  His parents were Thomas Nevin born around May, 1862 and Ellen Gilleran born January 1, 1874. I researched and found his father Thomas Nevin on the 1900 New York census with his first wife Winifred Benson. After the birth of four of my fatherís siblings, Winifred died in 1905. Thomas returned to Ireland and married Ellen Gilleran on April19, 1909 and they started a family. I found them on the 1911 Irish census. Ellen Gilleran died in childbirth in 1916. Since my father was very young, he didnít know much about his mother and fatherís ancestors. My father died in 1983. He actually went back to Roscommon in 1982 and put a headstone marking the Nevin name in Derrane Cemetary to honor his Nevin ancestors.

That is why I am here. I have found some information on the Gilleran side but nothing on Thomas Nevinís side. From his first marriage in New York on August 10, 1893 it says his father was also Thomas Nevin and his mother was Ellen Schrows, but I believe Schrows is incorrect as on the 1900 census he says both his parents were from Ireland and Schrows I believe is not an Irish name.


Any help finding who Thomas Nevin parents were. Did he have any siblings too.

Thank you.
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: Maggsie on Saturday 08 January 22 14:53 GMT (UK)
Hi Did they have a son called Stephen b 1894 and died 1894?
Maggsie

Just noticed......in the 1900 Census in the USA it say 3 children and 2 alive.
Is this correct?
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: aghadowey on Saturday 08 January 22 15:02 GMT (UK)
1909 marriage given Thomas's father as Thomas Nevin (no occupation given so possibly dead?)-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1909/10019/5644332.pdf

Your father's birth- Michael John-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1913/01450/1592914.pdf

1911 Census gives Thomas's age as 48 (born c1863 so probably no birth certificate).
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Roscommon/Drumdaff/Corbo/780324/

Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: aghadowey on Saturday 08 January 22 15:07 GMT (UK)
Thomas Nevin's mother Ellen died at Corbo in 1909-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1909/05451/4525276.pdf

Family tree here (can't vouch for accuracy)-
https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/9679-8R2
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: aghadowey on Saturday 08 January 22 15:17 GMT (UK)
There's a Michael Navin born 1869 with parents Thomas Navin & Ellen Shruffin-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1869/03407/2249591.pdf

A James Navin born 1864- mother Stahan?
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1864/03604/2329504.pdf

Another James Navin born 1864 with parents Thomas Nevin & Ellen Sher_-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1864/03604/2329510.pdf

If you can find baptismal records for these 3 plus your Thomas it might help with your family tree.
https://registers.nli.ie/
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: Formernewyorker on Saturday 08 January 22 16:52 GMT (UK)
To Maggie,

Thanks for the replies. I also saw most of those facts too but your input is appreciated. How do I get the baptism certificates?

There is a Thomas Nevin in the Griffiths Valuation for Roscommon but no earlier records. I did see that Ellen Nevin died in 1909 and widowed and since Thomas Nevin was on the 1905 US census, his first wife died and he returned from the US between 1905 and 1909.

Guess I will never know any more.
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: Formernewyorker on Saturday 08 January 22 17:26 GMT (UK)
Yes, I saw Stephen Nevin was their first child who died in childbirth.  My uncle Tommy named one of his sonís Stephen, probably honoring his brother who never lived.
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: Formernewyorker on Saturday 08 January 22 17:34 GMT (UK)
The tree on family search is mine. You are right about accuracy. Just put pieces together from the censuses regarding birth dates and what I know or found on Irish genealogy.

Thanks again.
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: aghadowey on Saturday 08 January 22 19:42 GMT (UK)
Ellen Nevin in 1901 mistranscribed as 'Wevin'  ::)
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Roscommon/Drumdaff/Corbo/1668472/
She's a widow so husband Thomas died before March 1901.
Ellen's brother-in-law Michael Flynn possibly died 1909.
Here's marriage of Michael Flynn with another variation of Ellen's maiden name- Shrulin!
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1892/10644/5878153.pdf
Anne's residence is Corbo (perhaps the property was in her family or belonged to her previous husband) but marriage gives father as James (dead).
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: Maiden Stone on Saturday 08 January 22 19:45 GMT (UK)

A James Navin born 1864- mother Stahan?
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1864/03604/2329504.pdf


Strahan?
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: aghadowey on Saturday 08 January 22 20:02 GMT (UK)
A James Navin born 1864- mother Stahan?
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1864/03604/2329504.pdf
Strahan?
More likely.

Can only get a bit of this but might be interesting-
Roscommon Messenger, 21 May 1910: M'DONNELL V NEVIN. John M'Donnell, Lanesboroí Road, sought an ejectment the title against Thomas Nevto [Nevin?], Corbo, respect the lands of Corbo, containing 19a 35p [3r 5p more likely]. Mr Maurice Staunton, solicitor, Castlerea, appeared for plaintiff, and M Moran for the Mr ...
 
Roscommon Messenger, 16 Jan.1909: Death and Funeral of Mr Michael Flynn, Corbo. The death took place at his residence, Corbo, Kilrooskey, on the 9th inst, of Michael Flynn, at the ripe age of 82 years. Deceased fought in the ...

Roscommon Messenger, 1 May 1909: DISQUALIFIED ON GROUND OF RESIDENCE. The Clerk stated that in the case of Ellen Nevin, Corbo, Kilrooskey, the pension officer reported that she was not qualified on the ground of residence. The Pension Officer ...
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: aghadowey on Saturday 08 January 22 20:12 GMT (UK)
A bit more-
Roscommon Messenger, 16 Jan.1909: Death and Funeral of Mr Michael Flynn, Corbo. The death took place at his residence, Corbo, Kilrooskey, on the 9th inst, of Michael Flynn, at the ripe age of 82 years. Deceased fought in the American Civil War and was in receipt of a pension from the American ...

A few avenues to try-
There are Civil War Pension records (Ancestry? possibly Find My Past?)
There are also records of incoming and outgoing U.K. Passenger lists (1890-1960 I think)
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: Maiden Stone on Saturday 08 January 22 20:15 GMT (UK)
There's a Michael Navin born 1869 with parents Thomas Navin & Ellen Shruffin-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1869/03407/2249591.pdf

A James Navin born 1864- mother Stahan?
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1864/03604/2329504.pdf

Another James Navin born 1864 with parents Thomas Nevin & Ellen Sher_-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1864/03604/2329510.pdf

If you can find baptismal records for these 3 plus your Thomas it might help with your family tree.
https://registers.nli.ie/


 How do I get the baptism certificates?


Michael's baptism was in Athleague parish on 1st Feb. 1869. Ellen's surname looks like Strachan to me. Godparents Burke.
I didn't spot a baptism for James. There were 2 runs of registers containing baptisms in 1864. They confused me. There may be entries missing or out of order.
https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0537
Tip - be flexible when looking for baptisms & birthdates. D.o.b. in births register may not have been accurate. Registration of births was a new thing. 
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: Maiden Stone on Saturday 08 January 22 20:34 GMT (UK)

Michael's baptism was in Athleague parish on 1st Feb.
I didn't spot a baptism for James. There were 2 runs of registers containing baptisms in 1864. They confused me. There may be entries missing or out of order.
https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0537


1 register seems to finish July 1864. Rest of page blank. Following page is marriages. (Unless there are more baptisms after marriage register.) Next baptism register begins Nov. 1864. Then another baptism register begins Jan. 1865. Perhaps registers from different chapels in the parish or kept by different priests.
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: aghadowey on Saturday 08 January 22 20:47 GMT (UK)
A James Navin, age one died 7 Aug.1865 Roscommon registration district. (certificate not yet online)
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: Maiden Stone on Saturday 08 January 22 21:10 GMT (UK)
A James Navin born 1864- mother Stahan?
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1864/03604/2329504.pdf

Strahan?
More likely.


Michael's baptism was in Athleague parish on 1st Feb. 1869. Ellen's surname looks like Strachan
 

Variants listed in "Varieties & Synonyms of Surnames and Christian Names in Ireland" by Robert Matheson, Registrar-General of Ireland. These were recorded by registrars around Ireland:
STRAHAN - STRACHAN, STRAGHAN, STRAIN

STRAYHORN - STREAHORN

SUGRUE - SEGRAVE, SUGHRUE, SUGREW

A longer list of variants for Strahan on Irish Ancestors Wizard.
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: Formernewyorker on Saturday 08 January 22 21:54 GMT (UK)
Thatís wonderful information on Ellen. Thanks so much.
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: aghadowey on Saturday 08 January 22 21:55 GMT (UK)
Trying to follow up this entry-
Roscommon Messenger, 21 May 1910: M'DONNELL V NEVIN. John M'Donnell, Lanesboroí Road, sought an ejectment the title against Thomas Nevto [Nevin?], Corbo, respect the lands of Corbo, containing 19a 35p [3r 5p more likely]. Mr Maurice Staunton, solicitor, Castlerea, appeared for plaintiff, and M Moran for the Mr ...

Think I found John McDonnell but guess who's his uncle (head of household)- James Shruane!
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Roscommon/Roscommon_Urban/Lanesboro_Street__Ballypheasan_/783871/
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: aghadowey on Saturday 08 January 22 22:09 GMT (UK)
Anne Shruhan/Shreehan, age 24, National Teacher, Lanesboro St.-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1875/020621/7235274.pdf
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: aghadowey on Saturday 08 January 22 22:35 GMT (UK)
Birth- John McDonnell, son of Denis McDonnell & Ellen Shruhan-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1876/03067/2124555.pdf
Baptism- https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FGTW-N2D
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633982#page/93/mode/1up (godparents Patrick? & Ann Madden)
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: Formernewyorker on Saturday 08 January 22 23:41 GMT (UK)
Got confused with the John McDonnell birth connection. My great grandmother Ellen last name was Nevin. So who is Ellen Shrulin or Shruane married to McDonnell?
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: Formernewyorker on Sunday 09 January 22 00:26 GMT (UK)
Also Ellen Nevin died in 1909.
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Sunday 09 January 22 07:50 GMT (UK)
Also Ellen Nevin died in 1909.

See aghadowey's reply #3

Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: aghadowey on Sunday 09 January 22 11:09 GMT (UK)
Got confused with the John McDonnell birth connection. My great grandmother Ellen last name was Nevin. So who is Ellen Shrulin or Shruane married to McDonnell?

It all fits together so bear with me but it's taking ages to get it all typed out from newspapers, etc. However, the whole story revolves around the farm at Corbo and Shruhans (by whatever spelling) at Lanesboro Road/Street in Roscommon.

Still have a bit more to add in then will post on this thread (possibly in several posts as there is LOTS) ...
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: aghadowey on Sunday 09 January 22 15:59 GMT (UK)
Starting with Thomas Nevin- you will have much or perhaps all of this information but putting it in so everyone can see it.

Thomas Nevin (May 1862-17 June 1924 Corbo) m.(10 Aug.1893 N.Y.) Winifred Benson (Aug.1871 Ire.-1905); m. Ellen Gilleran (1 Jan.1874-28 July 1916 Corbo, childbirth)
To US 1885- Returned to Ireland 1908 according to daughter Winifredís passport application
Marriage- parents Thomas Nevin & Ellen Schrows
1900- https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-6QSQ-DWG
1905 N.Y. State Census- https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SPF3-X38
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Roscommon/Drumdaff/Corbo/780324/
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1916/05229/4447859.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1924/05033/4376809.pdf
Children of Thomas & Winifred:
1. Stephen Nevin (1894-1894)
Death- https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2W6Q-KQD
2. Annie Nevin (14 Sept.1895 NY-aft.1911)
Birth- https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2WSL-TNZ
3. Ellen Nevin (25 Sept.1899 NY-aft.1930)
Birth- https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2W3W-VPG
1930 to US- https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-95WP-94HC
4. Thomas Nevin (21 Oct.1902 NY-aft.1928)
To US 1928- https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-95WR-THQ (sister Mrs. OíNeill)
5. Winifred Nevin (16 Aug.1904 N.Y.) m.(1930) Kenneth Doyle
1910- https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-GRV4-J39
1915- https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:K95B-QRV
US passport application (1920)- https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-89XM-XQLH (next page includes description & photo)
1930- https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9RCQ-4WN
Marriage- https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q2C6-YGNS
Children of Thomas & Ellen:
6. Mary Nevin (1 May 1910 Corbo)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1910/01569/1632970.pdf
7. James Nevin (8 Oct.1911 Corbo)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1911/01509/1612944.pdf
8. Michael John Nevin (1913 Corbo-1983), to U.S. c1930
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1913/01450/1592914.pdf
9. Catherine Nevin (28 July 1916 Corbo-29 July 1916 Corbo)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1916/01327/1548048.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1916/05229/4447859.pdf
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: aghadowey on Sunday 09 January 22 16:19 GMT (UK)
At the centre of the story is Corbo, a townland of approx. 372 acres halfway between Roscommon and Lanesborough, just of the Lanesborough Road.
https://www.townlands.ie/roscommon/ballintober-south/kilbride/drumdaff/corbo/
You can see the area on Google Maps (go to Streetview to Ďdriveí around)

In Griffithís Valuation (printed 1857) there is a Michael Madden in Corbo with just over 19 acres and one of the better houses in the townland. This may or may not be the farm of Michael Flynn.

Fast forward to 1892 when a widow Anne Madden marries Michael Flynn, a veteran from the American Civil War.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1892/10644/5878153.pdf
The brideís residence is Corbo and itís possible she came to the farm through her first marriage. Anneís maiden name was Shrulin, her father James Shrulin already dead. Ages arenít given on the marriage but the 1901 census was only a few years later-
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Roscommon/Drumdaff/Corbo/1668472/
If the ages are correct then Michael was born c1831 (certain old enough to be Civil War vet) and Anne considerably younger (20 years, so born c1851). Also in the household, besides a farm servant (not surprising they needed someone to do the majority of the hard labour) is Anneís widowed sister- Ellen Nevin! So, if Anneís father was a James Shrulin then it stands to reason that he was also Ellenís father.

One bit of information we didnít have earlier was that Anne died before her husband Michael. Her death here (only Ann Flynn died between 1901/1909 in Roscommon district)?
Anne Flynn, Lanesboro St., Roscommon, age 72, married, informant- nephew John McDonnell-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1906/05569/4563860.pdf (born c1834 which is much nearer Michaelís age but far off 1901 census age)
I did find Michael Flynn was granted administration of Annís estate (a small sum) so she didnít leave a Will.
http://www.willcalendars.nationalarchives.ie/reels/cwa/005014915/005014915_00393.pdf
Roscommon Messenger, 10 Feb.1906: Death and Funeral of Mrs Anne Flynn, Corbo, Kilbride. The death took place on Monday morning last of Mrs Anne Flynn, member of a family well known and highly esteemed in the district. Deceased had been living with her brother in Roscommon, and for some time past had been Ö

By 1909 Thomas Nevin is at Corbo.
Now, on 9 Jan.1909 Michael Flynn dies (finally found Michaelís death which took a while since wrong image was attached to entry)- widower, Pensioner American Army, informant- nephew Thomas Nevin of Corbo-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1909/05468/4530642.pdf

So far seems pretty simple. Thomas Nevin went off to America c1885, by 1901 his widowed mother Ellen was living at Corbo with her sister Anne Flynn (no sign that Michael or Anne had any children). Thomas Nevin comes back to Ireland with children Annie, Ellen & Thomas after first wife dies (little Winifred raised in N.Y. by aunt).
1909 was a busy year at Corbo. In January Michael Flynn dies; in April Thomas re-marries (those young children need a mother, after all, and if, as it seems, his mother Ellen's in poor health then a wife could look after the house and mother-in-law as well).

Ellen Nevin d.24 July 1909 at Corbo-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1909/05451/4525276.pdf
Roscommon Messenger, 28 Aug.1909: Late Mrs Ellen Nevin. On Monday last, _ inst, was celebrated the monthís mind for the repose of the soul of the late Mrs Ellen Nevin, of Corbo, whose interment look place at Derrane cemetery on 26th July last. The following clergymen assisted Rev. J. Neary, CC, Derrane, celebrant; Rev. J. O'Dowd, CC, Ö
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: aghadowey on Sunday 09 January 22 16:31 GMT (UK)
Possibly Michael Flynn had no close family or Anne Flynn wished her nephew Thomas, returned from America, to have the farm. In any case, your Thomas Nevin is at Corbo and looks to get the property until the following year there was a court case-
Roscommon Messenger, 21 May 1910: M'DONNELL V NEVIN. John M'Donnell, Lanesboroí Road, sought an ejectment the title against Thomas Nevto [Nevin?], Corbo, respect the lands of Corbo, containing 19a 35p [3r 5p more likely]. Mr Maurice Staunton, solicitor, Castlerea, appeared for plaintiff, and M Moran for the Mr ... [this is the bit I posted earlier but found more interesting snippets which may not be in order]

Ö lands to the plaintiff in this action. He found by the rent book that the plaintiffs name was put in it 1906, apparently replacing the name of Anne Flynn, and he would prove that in May, í06, November, í06, and May, í07, the rent was paid by plaintiff, John M'Donnell Ö
... Michael Flynn, finding himself delicate health, assigned his right, title and interest in said lands to Mrs Anne Flynn. At this time Michael Flynn, as recited, was in delicate health, and plaintiff and Mr James Shruane assisted Flynn In the management the farm. They worked the farm and put their money in it and stocked it, and put their labour into it until Ö died. In 1905 a notice fix fair rent was served the name Mrs Anne Flynn. At this time Mr McDonnell and his uncle managed and looked after the place. When Mrs Flynn was seriously ill he took her into his mother's house in Roscommon in order that she would be better looked after. She finally died there on the 6th February, 1906. The plaintiff Ö


...when he [Michael Flynn?] came from America, but he gave some of it to his friends at Taughboy. Nevinís mother lived at Corbo also. No. Not the time of the marriage. She lived in her sisterís in Lanesboroí Street? Yes. About 11 years ago. Was Thos Nevin always there except when be went to America? Yes ... ['his friends' in this context probably mean distant relatives of Michael's who lived at Taughboy- I haven't followed this up. It seems as though Ellen Nevin lived with a sister in Roscommon until she came to Corbo c1899- more on this later]

... belonging to Flynn was lodged in the bank in the name of the plaintiff as trustee for Flynn. These statements were contrary to fact. The fact was that the money was given to Anne Flynn herself in consideration of her assigning the farm to Michael Flynn ...

... transferred him. He was 68 or 69 when he married witnessís grand-aunt. Witness and his uncle principally managed the lands after the marriage. Flynn assigned the lands to witnesss grand-aunt In 1899 At the time Michael Flynn was 74 or 75 years of age Ö managed ... [another important bit of information is that Anne was John McDonnell's great-aunt- more on this later]

The whole article would need to be read to get full details and to make sure I haven't mis-understood anything by getting random snippets. Whatever the outcome, Thomas Nevin stayed at Corbo. Perhaps the case was dismissed, found in his favour or he had to pay off John McDonnell to keep the farm.
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: aghadowey on Sunday 09 January 22 16:40 GMT (UK)
Remember you were confused about the 'other' Ellen I mentioned? Hereís where the Ďotherí Ellen comes in. Back to 1892 marriage of Michael Flynn & Anne Madden- one of the witnesses was an Ellen McDonnell who turns out to be Anne's niece.
In 1911 (year following the above court case) John McDonnell is still in Lanesboro St. with his widowed mother Ellen and uncle James Shruane, a shoemaker-
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Roscommon/Roscommon_Urban/Lanesboro_Street__Ballypheasan_/783871/

Earlier (1909) John was informant for his auntís death- Bridget Shreehan! (havenít found her in 1901 census yet)
Bridget Shreelin, age 73, d.1908 Lanesboro St. Roscommon- nephew John McDonnell of Roscommon
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1909/05468/4530644.pdf
Roscommon Messenger, 19 Dec.1908: Funeral Miss B. Shruane, We regret to have to announce the death of Miss Bridget Shruane which took place at her residence, Lanesboroí-street, Roscommon, on Sunday last, after a protracted illness. Deceased, who was 73 years of age, belonged to a family Ö  same day the funeral took place to the family burial plot in the Churchyard. The funeral was both large and representative,  remains being carried from the Church the graveyard. The chief mourners were James Shruane (brother); Ellen McDonnell (niece); and John McDonnell (grand-nephew). Rev Father McParland officiated at the graveside. To her relatives we tender an expression Ö
This is possibly the sister in Roscommon that Ellen Nevin stayed with until she moved to Corbo. Without seeing the actual article, it's possible bits are missing in list of chief mourners (why wasn't Thomas Nevin mentioned or was he?)

John McDonnell turns out to be the son of a Denis McDonnell (shop assistant) & Ellen Struhan. It looks like Anne Flynn, then Madden, might be his godmother?
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1876/03067/2124555.pdf
Baptism- https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FGTW-N2D
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633982#page/93/mode/1up (godparents Patrick? & Ann Madden)
In 1911 census Ellen McDonnell said she had one child, had been married 36 years, or 36 years ago, and was widowed. The child would be John.

Have to go an start the tea but will post more later (yes there is more)...
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: Formernewyorker on Sunday 09 January 22 20:04 GMT (UK)
You are amazing. You are right I have a lot of the same information. I knew Winnie lived with her aunt and uncle but from my deceased father she was married to OíMalley, not sure of husbands first name. Checking with my sister and brothers. I am so happy you found my great grandmother on the 1901 Irish census and her death announcement brought me chills as my father Michael who died in 1983 took a trip to Ireland and put a headstone in Derrane Cemetary honoring his ancestors and his grandmother is actually buried there.

I did find a lot of Shruhans births with parents Joannes Shruhan and Eliza Scully, Another record for Elizabethan Shruffin with same parents. The parents were married 4/29/1840. Did not find a Ellen though. There is a Shruffin on Griffiths Valuation. There was also a marriage of Bridget Shruhan to a John Hunt on 2/20/1865 with her father James Shruhan.

Do not know if any of this is relevant.

Thank you so much for all your hard work.


Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: Formernewyorker on Sunday 09 January 22 21:21 GMT (UK)
Maybe Tom Nevinís parents were in America too and my great grandfather Tom Nevin died here. It always puzzled me that this record of pension for Ellen Nevins came up when I went on Ancestry.com. Here is a photo.

Since his BIL Michael Flynn served in the civil war, maybe Thomas Nevin too.
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: aghadowey on Sunday 09 January 22 22:20 GMT (UK)
We have the following people all with connection to Lanesboro St., Roscommon and Iím pretty sure all connected.

Anne Shreehan (c1834-1906) m.1 _ Madden, m.(1892) Michael Flynn (c1831-1909)
John McDonnell her great-nephew; 2nd marriage gives her father as James (dec.); sister Ellen Nevin living with her in 1901; Ellen Nevinís son Thomas Nevin gets Corbo farm

There was also a death, much earlier, of an Anne Streehan/Struhan (c1854-1875 Lanesboro St.)-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1875/020621/7235274.pdf (spinster, National teacher)

Ellen Shreehan (c1844-1909) m. Thomas Nevin
Lived with a sister (Bridget?) in Lanesboro St. until c1899 when she moved to sister Anne at Corbo; son Thomas Nevin gets Corbo farm

William Shruane (c1831-22 May 1897 Lanesboro St.)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1897/05863/4661994.pdf (William Sruan, bachelor, shoemaker, informant- brother James)

Bridget Shruane (c1835-1908), unm.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1909/05468/4530644.pdf  (Ďnephewí John McDonnell registered death)
Roscommon Messenger, 19 Dec.1908: Death and Funeral Miss B. Shruane. We regret to have to announce the death of Miss Bridget Shruane which took place at her residence, Lanesboroí-street, Roscommon, on Sunday last, after a protracted illness. Deceased, who was 73 years of age, belonged to a family held in the highest esteem in Roscommon district, and her death

James Shruane (c1840-aft.1915), shoemaker
He is likely born before 1840. James & Ďnephewí John McDonnell looking after Corbo. 1911 census says widower but death says single.
Roscommon Messenger, 26 June 1915: To make 17 yards of flagged footpath continuation the existing footpath Mr James Shruaneís house in Lanesboroí-street, Roscommon : probable cost, £10. Order, MICHAEL MORAN, 2-26-6-ld. Clerk of Council
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1925/05014/4369670.pdf (James Shruhan, single, farmer, informant- nephew John McDonnell)

Ellen Struhan (c1846-aft.1911) m.(c1875) Denis McDonnell. Only child: John McDonnell (c1876-aft.1911)
Ellen is called niece and great-neice of James Shruane. Son registered death of Bridget in 1908.

John Shruhan (c1824-1885 Lanesboro St.)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1885/06277/4798342.pdf (shoemaker, widower, informant- brother James)
? married Eliza Scully in 1840 https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633980#page/52/mode/1up

Mrs. Eliza Shruhan died 1882. John didnít die until 1882 so is Ďwidowí error or was she married to another brother?
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1882/06383/4832496.pdf (Eliza Shruhan, widow of shoemaker)

I cannot for the life of me find Lanesboro St. in 1901 census & I have a feeling itís not online. There are a few more deaths 1860s/1870s which not yet online but might clear things up when they are available.
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: aghadowey on Sunday 09 January 22 22:49 GMT (UK)
I don't think that U.S. pension record is your Thomas Nevin (Sr.) as wife Ellen was living in Ireland before 1900 (possibly never left).

Could this be Ellen's husband?
Death of THOMAS NAVIN in 1870
SR District/Reg Area   Roscommon
Deceased Age at Death   54
Returns Year   1870
Returns Quarter   3
Returns Volume No   13
Returns Page No   206

Added- found marriage for other Bridget but can't read it and not sure if it's in the right area.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1865/11563/8254117.pdf
Her death? https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1904/05618/4580118.pdf
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Roscommon/Kilbride_South/Kinnitty/1668832/
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: Formernewyorker on Monday 10 January 22 00:21 GMT (UK)
Wouldnít that Thomas Navin be a lot older than my great grandmother. He being born 1816 and she around 1844, 28 years her senior.

Again thanks for all your hard work. So do you think my great grandmother last name is Ellen Shruhan or Shruffin with her parents being Joannes Shruhan and Eliza Scully. I saw that Bridget Shruhan married John Hunt on 2/20/1865.

I also found a Ann Shruhan Galvin who died in 1838 and buried in Old Drum Cemetary in Roscommon . Husband Michael died 8/20/1841. Son was James.
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: Maiden Stone on Monday 10 January 22 01:08 GMT (UK)
Well done, aghadowey.
Formernewyorker, I suggest that you ask on the military board about that pension record for Ellen Nevin reply #29.

Putting the dispute about the farm into historical context:
The Land League was formed in Ireland in 1879 to campaign for land reform. It became a mass movement.
Several pieces of legislation about land in Ireland passed through the British Parliament 1870-1909. They included improvements to tenants' rights and introduced the right of a tenant to purchase land s/he occupied. 1885 Land Purchase Act set up a government fund to provide loans for tenants who wished to buy their farms. There were further Land Purchase Acts in 1903 and 1909.

Whoever could prove that he was the rightful tenant of the farm at Corbo and take legal possession of it, could later ask to buy it if he wished and apply for a government loan.   
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: Maiden Stone on Monday 10 January 22 01:36 GMT (UK)

Again thanks for all your hard work. So do you think my great grandmother last name is Ellen Shruhan or Shruffin with her parents being Joannes Shruhan and Eliza Scully. I saw that Bridget Shruhan married John Hunt on 2/20/1865.


I wonder if the surname derives from SRUFFAUN which means a streamlet, a little stream. English variant of the surname is BYWATER.
Joannes is a Latin form of John. John Shruhan & Eliza Scully.
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: Formernewyorker on Monday 10 January 22 04:40 GMT (UK)
I found another connection. When Ann Shruhan died, Mary Morris was present.

When Eliza Shruhan died at 2 years old in 1865, her uncle John Morris was present. So it looks like a Shruhan was married to a Morris.
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: Formernewyorker on Monday 10 January 22 04:50 GMT (UK)
Just found on family search. Mary Shruhan married to John Morris with following children:

Mary Ann b. 2/2/1868
Margaret b. 8/23/1869
Thomas b. 12/9/1871
Elizabeth b. 3/25/19881

Could this be another sister for Ellen?

Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: Formernewyorker on Monday 10 January 22 05:02 GMT (UK)
This may be Mary Shruhan birth record.

Mariam Shruan b. 7/29/1841
Father Joannis Shruan Mother Elizabethae Scully
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: Formernewyorker on Monday 10 January 22 05:04 GMT (UK)
Date was her christening date.
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: aghadowey on Monday 10 January 22 11:43 GMT (UK)
Looks like you've been busy also  ;D

I think Ellen Nevin was actually older than the records show- if son was born 1862 then she could certainly been born before 1840 (year John Struhan married Eliza Scully). When Ann married Michael Flynn in 1892 she gave her father as James and since Ellen Nevin seems to be her sister then Ellen's father also James.

The 1865 marriage for Bridget Shruhan is in the wrong area (which is good since we already have a Bridget- died 1908).
Below is a possible family tree-

James Shruhan (d.bef.1892)
1. John Shruhan (c1824-1885) m. Eliza Scully
     a. James Shruhan (c1840-1925)
     b. Mary Shruhan (c1841-1891) m. John Morris (c1824-1894 at Henry St.)
Bapt.- https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FGRL-2T5
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1891/06070/4730954.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1894/05965/4695644.pdf
          i. Joseph James Morris (1864 at Roscommon)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1864/03614/2334002.pdf (Joseph, father- pensioner)
          ii. Mary Ann Morris (1868 at Henry St.-5 Mar.1936 N.Y.) m.(1895) Joseph Egan (c1873-Jan.1926 N.Y.), tailor
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1868/03452/2267554.pdf (father- Staff Sgt.)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1895/10546/5841631.pdf
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Roscommon/Roscommon_Urban/Henry_Street/1670105/
Roscommon Messenger, 30 Oct.1909: Ö Joseph Egan, Church streel, was a tailor, and lived a very bad house. He had eight children. Some the rooms were very bad, especially the one over the archway. Burke- Who is your landlord.- John Kelly, Canamore. I pay Ö
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Roscommon/Roscommon_Urban/Church_Street__Ballypheasan_/783765/  (7 ch/6 liv.)
Roscommon Messenger, 20 Feb.1926: New York papers Ö announce the death, on 27th January, of Mr. Joseph Egan, formerly of Church-street, Roscommon. The funeral, which was attended by members of his family and other friends, took place on January 30th, after Solemn Requiem Mass, to Manhattan. The late Mr. Egan was well and popularly Ö
1930- https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X4PL-ZGB (Charles to US 1913; Mary A., John & Mary B. to US 1921; William to US 1916)
Death (Mary)- https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2WLM-NX2 (parents- John Morris & Mary Shruahan, buried Calvary Cem.)
               1. Evelyn Mary Egan (1896 at Henry St.-aft.1911)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1896/02181/1825821.pdf (Evelyn Mary)
               2. Charles Egan (1897 at Henry St.-aft.1930)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1897/02115/1804745.pdf
               3. William Francis Egan (1899 at Henry St.-aft.1930)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1899/02017/1774308.pdf
               4. John Joseph Egan (1902 at Henry St.-aft.1930)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1902/01920/1744247.pdf
               5. Christina Egan (1904 at Church St.-aft.1911)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1904/01825/1713784.pdf
               6. Mary Bridget Egan (1908 at Church St.-aft.1930)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1909/01622/1649904.pdf
          iii. Margaret Morris (1869 at Henry St.-1869?)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1869/03382/2240219.pdf (father- military pensioner)
          iv. Thomas Morris (1871 at Henry St.)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1871/03272/2199220.pdf (father- military pensioner)
          v. Christopher Morris (1873 at Henry St.)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1873/03171/2163347.pdf (father- military pensioner)
          vi. James Morris (1876 at Henry St.)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1876/03042/2115634.pdf (father- military pensioner)
          vii. Elizabeth Morris (1881 at Henry St.)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1881/02839/2040758.pdf (father- military pensioner)
     c. John Shruhan (c1844)
Bapt.- https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FPB8-YVC
     d. William Shruhan (c1846)
Bapt.- https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FPB8-MJM
     e. Ellen Shruhan (c1846-aft.1911) m. Denis McDonnell
          i. John McDonnell (1876)
     f. Anne Shruhan (c1854-1875), teacher
2. William Shruhan (c1831-1897)
3. Bridget Shruhan (c1835-1908)
4. Anne Shruhan (c1834-1906) m.1 _ Madden; m.(1892) Michael Flynn
5. Ellen Shruhan (c1844?-1909) m. Thomas Nevin
     a. Thomas Nevin (c1862-1924)

Note: if above is correct then Thomas Nevin was nephew to Anne Flynn whereas John McDonnell was only great-nephew
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: aghadowey on Monday 10 January 22 18:35 GMT (UK)
Well, I was wrong about one thing- Ellen Nevin did spend time in America!
Roscommon Messenger, 26 June 1909: PENSION DISCONTINUED. The L G Board wrote in reference to the case of Ellen Nevin, Corbo, respect which an appeal was made by the pension officer, that they (L G Board) now determined that the above named Ellen Nevin, is not entitled to pension. This woman was receiving a pension since the start, but it was discovered she was not qualified on the grounds of residence, having spent a number of years in America. ChairmanóWhat are you to do with this now? ClerkóThe L G Board state she is not entitled to the pension. Father DonnellanóShe has plenty of money any way. The L G Board have marked it disallowed, and we must disallow it. Chairmanólt seems the ...

Also think I may have found her son Thomas Nevin travelling to U.S. (not 1885 as in 1900 census but close)- 1887 a Thos. Nevin & Patk. Strahan to N.Y. on ďCity of RomeĒ https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939V-5R9W-6H

Remember much earlier (reply #4) 2 other possible sons (James & Michael) for Thomas Nevin & Ellen Shruhan were found as another James Nevin?
I think the 2 James Nevins are the same child & that Michael also is their child.
Michael Navin born 1869 Mount Prospect with parents Thomas Navin (shepherd) & Ellen Shruffin-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1869/03407/2249591.pdf (informant- Mary Warde)
A James Navin born 15 July 1864 Gap- mother Strahun
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1864/03604/2329504.pdf (father- herd, registered by father 31 July)
James Navin born 14 July 1864 Ballybride Roscommon with parents Thomas Nevin & Ellen Shruhan-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1864/03604/2329510.pdf (father- labourer, registered by aunt M.A. Shruhan Roscommon 18 July)
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: Maiden Stone on Monday 10 January 22 21:40 GMT (UK)

Remember much earlier (reply #4) 2 other possible sons (James & Michael) for Thomas Nevin & Ellen Shruhan were found as another James Nevin?
I think the 2 James Nevins are the same child & that Michael also is their child.
Michael Navin born 1869 Mount Prospect with parents Thomas Navin (shepherd) & Ellen Shruffin-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1869/03407/2249591.pdf (informant- Mary Warde)
A James Navin born 15 July 1864 Gap- mother Strahun
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1864/03604/2329504.pdf (father- herd, registered by father 31 July)
James Navin born 14 July 1864 Ballybride Roscommon with parents Thomas Nevin & Ellen Shruhan-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1864/03604/2329510.pdf (father- labourer, registered by aunt M.A. Shruhan Roscommon 18 July)

I found Michael's baptism but couldn't find one for a James (Reply #12).

A family who were friends of my GF's family in Mayo registered 1 baby twice, several months apart, in 2 different calendar years. Mother registered him a few weeks after birth, dad registered him when he was about 4 months old, selecting a convenient date of birth.

Herds and labourers may have moved around for work. Some shepherding jobs were short-term or seasonal. (A member of my family was a shepherd in 20th century.)

I may have posted these surname variants before:
Griffiths' Valuation: SHRUFFIN (Roscommon); SRUFFANE (Waterford)
GRO birth registrations: SRIFFANE
Source John Grenham Irish Wizard.
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: Maiden Stone on Monday 10 January 22 22:44 GMT (UK)

Michael Navin born 1869 Mount Prospect with parents Thomas Navin (shepherd) & Ellen Shruffin-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1869/03407/2249591.pdf (informant- Mary Warde)
A James Navin born 15 July 1864 Gap- mother Strahun
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1864/03604/2329504.pdf (father- herd, registered by father 31 July)
James Navin born 14 July 1864 Ballybride Roscommon with parents Thomas Nevin & Ellen Shruhan-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1864/03604/2329510.pdf (father- labourer, registered by aunt M.A. Shruhan Roscommon 18 July)

Mountprospect townland, Ardcarn civil parish
I couldn't find Gap townland. Possibly Crowsgap, Kilmeane civil parish. Unless Gap is part of another townland.
Ballybride townland, Roscommon civil parish. The townland is in 2 parts, a big part and a tiny part, beside Roscommon town. There is something written under Ballybride on the birth registration.
If those birth registrations are for the same James, perhaps Thomas changed jobs and moved in between the birth and the end of the July when Thomas registered the birth. It was the first year of birth registrations - people may have been a bit vague about information. Thomas may have been working away at the time of the birth- it was haymaking time. 
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: Formernewyorker on Tuesday 11 January 22 01:58 GMT (UK)
This is a lot to digest and very much appreciated. So if I am understanding,
James Shruhan was Ellen Nevinís father. I got the 1844 birth from her estimated age at death in 1909.

Her siblings are John married to Eliza, James, Anne married to Michael Flynn, Bridget (unmarried) and Mary married to Morris.  It that correct.

Since there is no record of birth of my great grandfather Thomas there is no way to know who is parents are. But through all your hard work some of the missing pieces of Ellen have been found. From the first marriage of her son Thomas in NY, his parents were Thomas and Ellen Schrows (which I knew spelling of Ellenís last name was incorrect). Since there are no Shruhan on Griffiths Valuation, is the name last name Shruffin instead.


Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: Formernewyorker on Tuesday 11 January 22 02:34 GMT (UK)
Makes sense that Thomas and Ellenís (my great grandparents) sons are Thomas, Michael and James because those are the names passed down in generations.

My grandfather Thomas had Thomas, James, my father Michael John Nevin,
daughters Ann, Ellen, Mary and Winnie.

My brothers are a James, Michael, and Thomas, i am Mary and my sister was supposed to be named after my fatherís sister Ellen (Helen) but my mother wanted to name one baby so my sister is Barbara Helen. Cousins are Thomas, Steven, Michael, Thomas and Malachy, Ann on my fatherís side from his brothers and sisters.

The first born niece is Michelle, my brother Michael named his first born son Michael and my youngest brother named his first born son Thomas.

I did find a Michael J. Nevinís death record 4/1/1933,  buried in Calvary Cemetary in Bronx, NY. Birth date 1871 showing parents Thomas Nevin and Ellen Sruhen.

Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: Maiden Stone on Tuesday 11 January 22 04:03 GMT (UK)
From the first marriage of her son Thomas in NY, his parents were Thomas and Ellen Schrows (which I knew spelling of Ellenís last name was incorrect). Since there are no Shruhan on Griffiths Valuation, is the name last name Shruffin instead.

There was no right or wrong way to spell a surname. If someone couldn't write or spell s/he spoke the name to the person who was doing the writing. The scribe then wrote what he or she heard and if it was a name they weren't familiar with they spelled it however they decided it should be spelled. A priest might spell a baby's surname one way, a registrar might spell the same baby's name a different way. If a new priest arrived in a parish and baptised that baby's siblings, he might spell the surname a different way, especially if he wasn't local. Ditto mother's maiden surname. If the family moved to a different parish or a different district, priests and registrars there might have their own versions of how it should be spelled. e.g. Doherty, Dougherty, Docherty and Dockerty are all the same name. My Roscommon aunt's family were Mulvee/Mulvie/Mulvey &c.

Even when people could write, there were instances of surname variants within a family:
 A man went to register his brother's death. He spelled his brother's surname for the registrar. When information had been written down the man signed, spelling his surname differently to the way his brother's was spelled. When the registrar queried it the man said that his brother consistently spelled his name one way while he preferred a different spelling.
A household census return has a family surname spelled 2 ways. 1 person filled in some entries and another person then completed the form.

Another thing to keep in mind is that many surnames were originally Irish. The Irish alphabet has fewer than 26 letters. There are sounds that an English-speaking person may have had difficulty interpreting into writing.   
Some people altered their surnames to make them seem more/less Irish, depending on their situation or personal preference. For some it may have been to make them easier to spell.       
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: Formernewyorker on Tuesday 11 January 22 04:31 GMT (UK)
Interesting facts.

The Bridget Shruhan (father James Shruhan) mentioned on marriage record to John Hunt in 1865. Who is she, since the Bridget who died in 1908 says spinster. 

I found the Hunt family on 1901 Irish census Kilbride county.
John Hunt husband
Children Annie 28
Charles 26
John 24
Eliza 18

Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: Formernewyorker on Tuesday 11 January 22 04:36 GMT (UK)
Whatever the Roscommon Messenger, it is a great source.
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Tuesday 11 January 22 08:07 GMT (UK)

I found the Hunt family on 1901 Irish census Kilbride county.
John Hunt husband
Children Annie 28
Charles 26
John 24
Eliza 18


What you found was the 1901 census for a house 1 in Kinnitty (Kilbride South, Roscommon).

Here's the link-
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Roscommon/Kilbride_South/Kinnitty/1668832/
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai003852941/

https://www.townlands.ie/roscommon/ballintober-south/kilbride/kilbride-south/kinitty/

Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: aghadowey on Tuesday 11 January 22 08:32 GMT (UK)
I don't think Bridget that married Hunt is related or at least not closely so would leave her off to the side for now unless someone can find marriage details from very bad image?

Last thing before bed I tried a different search and think I may have found lots more so back later  :D
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: aghadowey on Tuesday 11 January 22 11:45 GMT (UK)
Marriage of Thomas Nevin & Ellen Sruffin on 8 Mar.1859!
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633980#page/77/mode/1up (witnesses- Thomas Cooney?, Mary Sruffin)

Also found a daughter Mary J. Nevin!
c1886 to N.Y.? (see death record)
Marriage- https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:24ST-BND (parents- Thomas Nevin & Ellen Struhan)
Death- https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2WXK-CG8 (Mary J. McCall, parents transcribed as Thomas Ninn & Ellen Scham, Shane Maternity Hospital. 12 hours at place of death, 18 years in NY, buried Calvary Cemetery)

Haven't found Mary J.'s birth yet but age on records seem unreliable. Next step is to find her in 1900 U.S. census and also trace Michael J. Nevin in U.S. records before death in 1933.
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: aghadowey on Tuesday 11 January 22 18:37 GMT (UK)
Interesting facts.

The Bridget Shruhan (father James Shruhan) mentioned on marriage record to John Hunt in 1865. Who is she, since the Bridget who died in 1908 says spinster. 

I found the Hunt family on 1901 Irish census Kilbride county.
John Hunt husband
Children Annie 28
Charles 26
John 24
Eliza 18

See reply#31
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: Formernewyorker on Tuesday 11 January 22 19:06 GMT (UK)
May have found another son Stephen J. Nevin 1900 US census Brooklyn, NY (my father settled in Brooklyn, I grew up in Brooklyn, NY). Sibling of my grandfather Thomas Nevin.

Stephen b. 12/1864
Ellen his wife, b. 12/1867, both in Ireland, their parents from Ireland.
With their children born in NY

Thomas 12
Mary 10
Stephen 8
James 6
Robert 3
Ellen 0


Death record of Stephen 8/16/1939 Holy Cross Cemetary mentions Thomas Nevin father and Ellen Sch...n as mother

Also, my Grandfather Thomas named his first born with Winifred Benson Stephen who died at birth.

Again, thanks for all the hard work
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: aghadowey on Tuesday 11 January 22 21:26 GMT (UK)
Brilliant find with Stephen which leads to 1892 N.Y. State Census- Stephen, wife 2 children and ... Ellen Nevins age 52 born Ireland!
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6XY3-L55
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: Maiden Stone on Tuesday 11 January 22 23:14 GMT (UK)
Marriage of Thomas Nevin & Ellen Sruffin on 8 Mar.1859!
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633980#page/77/mode/1up (witnesses- Thomas Cooney?, Mary Sruffin)


I read letter after S in Ellen's surname as h. Letter after S in witness Mary's surname may be r or may be a faded h. Last part of "Maria" is a bit faded.
That's something else to consider with surname discrepancies; it may have been something as basic as faded ink. Writing with dip-pens was a tricky art. Using the correct pressure. Ink consistency was a factor - not enough water added to ink powder = cloggy ink, too much = faint writing.
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: aghadowey on Wednesday 12 January 22 13:45 GMT (UK)
Would you believe that I've found ANOTHER child of Thomas & Ellen Nevin!

Found Michael J. Nevin marriage (1895) to Mary Ward-
(https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:24CV-T77 (parents transcribed as Thos. Nevins & Helen Druhan)
Birth of a son 10 days later-
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:27Y3-6R6

Michael & wife Mary in 1930 census with his sister Margaret Nevins- age 55, single, to US 1900-
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X4NK-HWX

Lots more, I think, but internet not working well today so may take a while to post again.
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: Maiden Stone on Wednesday 12 January 22 16:22 GMT (UK)

Michael & wife Mary in 1930 census with his sister Margaret Nevins- age 55, single, to US 1900-
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X4NK-HWX


Can't see a birth registration  for Margaret. She wasn't the Margaret birth registered Roscommon (Athleague) 1872 with parents Thomas & Ellen, maiden surname Kelly. That couple had more children.
I also searched for Margaret Nevin births 1870-79 without selecting a district and Nevin births registered with no forename in Roscommon district for same period.

Michael was probably the Michael born 1869 whose birth & baptism we found early on. His age was correct on 1930 census but not on marriage record.

Another common reason for surname variants are accents (Irish brogue). Less common factors may have been the person saying the name having a speech impediment or the clerk/priest/official being hard -of-hearing or taking down details in a noisy place. 
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: Formernewyorker on Wednesday 12 January 22 18:14 GMT (UK)
Amazing.

I am one of five children of Michael Nevin so always thought it was odd that my grandfather Thomas would be only child, now finding out he has four siblings so far unless more are found.

And because they settled in Brooklyn, NY where I grew up, there must be a lot of my relatives and their families roaming around.

Thanks
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: aghadowey on Wednesday 12 January 22 18:26 GMT (UK)
Possibly death of Thomas Nevin's first wife Winifred, his return to Ireland then remarrying caused the family to fracture so that his children didn't ever hear much about their America relatives.

Problems with finding birth details for the children are registration only started 1864, ages unreliable in later records, baptisms not easily found yet, locations could vary if family moved because of father's occupation.

Thomas Nevin & wife Ellen Shruhan seem to have had at least 6 children (so far) and there might be at least one more but I can't see anyway to get a date, etc.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:HQR3-HHT2
Looks like an infant who died at sea/shortly after arrival? so presumably there should be its mother on board...

Added- got more on NY. relations last night before internet started acting up which I'll have to post later.
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: aghadowey on Wednesday 12 January 22 21:45 GMT (UK)
When Eliza Shruhan died at 2 years old in 1865, her uncle John Morris was present. So it looks like a Shruhan was married to a Morris.

Possibly same child? can anyone decipher whole entry (towards bottom right page)
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633981#page/183/mode/1up

And could this be same child (although age is 10 years out)?
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FGTW-21M
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: Formernewyorker on Thursday 13 January 22 01:50 GMT (UK)
The register looks like Elizabethan Joannas Shruhan.  The middle name hard to read. Family search says she was born 1862. Died 1865 with Uncle John Morris

When Anne Shruhan born in 1851 died in 1875, Mary (Mariam Morris) was present.
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: aghadowey on Thursday 13 January 22 10:40 GMT (UK)
The register looks like Elizabethan Joannas Shruhan.  The middle name hard to read. Family search says she was born 1862. Died 1865 with Uncle John Morris

When Anne Shruhan born in 1851 died in 1875, Mary (Mariam Morris) was present.

I don't see middle name for Elizabeth in the register. Format is child's name + father's name + mother's name, etc. without any punctuation between the names so I think second word is Latin version of John (father's Christian name).

Mary Shruhan, daughter of John Shruhan & Elizabeth Scully, married John Morris so is Elizabeth 1862-1865 is her sister... is the informant John Morris someone else?
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: Formernewyorker on Thursday 13 January 22 19:17 GMT (UK)
So the register what I thought was middle name is fatherís name correct?
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: Formernewyorker on Thursday 13 January 22 19:53 GMT (UK)
I did find a death notice for Charles Morris b. 6/3/1883 who died 12/22/1935, father John and mother Mary Schruen (birth place Ireland) and wife Rose. Possibly another child of Mary & John Morris.
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: aghadowey on Thursday 13 January 22 20:06 GMT (UK)
I did find a death notice for Charles Morris b. 6/3/1883 who died 12/22/1935, father John and mother Mary Schruen (birth place Ireland) and wife Rose. Possibly another child of Mary & John Morris.

Yes, one more for family tree  ;D
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1883/02734/2005399.pdf

So the register what I thought was middle name is fatherís name correct?
Yes.
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: aghadowey on Thursday 13 January 22 20:44 GMT (UK)
Two more Morris children which makes 10 since the start of registration in 1864-
Francis Morris (1866 at Henry St.-1867?)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1879/02929/2073381.pdf (father- pensioner 82nd Regt)
Bridget Morris (1879 at Henry St.)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1879/02929/2073381.pdf (father- military pensioner)

Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: Maiden Stone on Friday 14 January 22 02:57 GMT (UK)

And could this be same child (although age is 10 years out)?
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FGTW-21M

No. Elder sister.
 Baptism Kilteevan, (adjacent R.C. parish to Athleague) 19th Nov. 1852.
Sponsors Michael Brinan? (Maybe Brennan as spoken in local accent) & Ann Scully

Parents' marriage same parish 29th March or April 1840. Last marriage on previous page was mid-March, followed by a note that the bishop had visited. Next page has 2 marriages followed by May marriages. It was the general custom not to celebrate weddings in Lent, hence the rush of weddings in February -early March that year. Easter Sunday was 19th April in 1840 so wedding was most likely 29th April. John's surname looks to me like Shruan but it may be faded ink. Witnesses Luke (can't read surname) & Mary Scully.
John and Elizabeth had witnessed wedding of Luke Flanigan ? & Ann Scully at same church 24th. Feb. that year. John Shr..an?
That may have meant dowries for 2 Scully daughters in a couple of months.
https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0564
Kilteevan was presumably Elizabeth Scully's home parish. She may have gone there for the birth of daughter Elizabeth 1852 so that female relatives could care for her or she may have been visiting family when baby arrived.   
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: Maiden Stone on Friday 14 January 22 03:09 GMT (UK)

Possibly same child? can anyone decipher whole entry (towards bottom right page)
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633981#page/183/mode/1up

Sponsor Jacobo -----an  & Annae ------
Jacobo from Jacobus =James. His surname may be the same as John's. Perhaps h in middle. I read John's surname as SHRUHAN. They paid the priest 2/6, (2 shilling & 6 pence or half-a-crown). Some other families on the page paid the same, some more.
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: Formernewyorker on Saturday 15 January 22 02:49 GMT (UK)
I found a James Shreane death record dated June 18, 1864 at Castlerea, County Roscommon, Ireland Adragool, Castlerea Roscommon. Estimated birth date 1803. Brother Thomas Shreane on record.

Death Ireland Civil Registration 1845-1913

Could this be Jame Shruhan or Shruffin?
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: Formernewyorker on Saturday 15 January 22 03:08 GMT (UK)
On the Griffiths Valuation there are two Shruffin, one living in Abbeytown, Town of Roscommon. Michael Shruffin. Six rows above is a Margaret Morris.


Second Shruffin is Bridget Shruffin living in Pollalaher.  Five rows below her is Andrew McDonnell.

I really do not understand the townlands and how they are related but thought the name connections were interesting.







Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: Formernewyorker on Saturday 15 January 22 03:15 GMT (UK)
On the Griffiths Valuation there is one Thomas Nevin in Cloonybeirne, a few rows above is John Nevin.
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Saturday 15 January 22 07:29 GMT (UK)
I found a James Shreane death record dated June 18, 1864 at Castlerea, County Roscommon, Ireland Adragool, Castlerea Roscommon. Estimated birth date 1803. Brother Thomas Shreane on record.

Death Ireland Civil Registration 1845-1913

Could this be Jame Shruhan or Shruffin?

FamilySearch
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QPQC-MSMV

Adragool townland
https://www.townlands.ie/roscommon/castlereagh/ballintober/ballintober/adragool/

Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: Maiden Stone on Saturday 15 January 22 08:10 GMT (UK)
I found a James Shreane death record dated June 18, 1864 at Castlerea, County Roscommon, Ireland Adragool, Castlerea Roscommon. Estimated birth date 1803. Brother Thomas Shreane on record.

I just remembered a Tony Shryane who was a BBC scriptwriter. I was trying to recall someone with a similar surname to Shreane whom my parents knew when I was a child, who was probably from Mayo or Roscommon, but I think I got mixed up.  :-\
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: aghadowey on Saturday 15 January 22 08:46 GMT (UK)
Brothers John* & William Shruane (the only 2 boys in the family found so far), as well as John's son James were all shoemakers in Roscommon itself. Possibly their father James Shruane was also a shoemaker in Roscommon but too early to say yet. In an case, no sign of a farming background yet either.
Griffith's Valuation has a John Shrohan in Lanesboro St. which may be the above John Shruane*.

Shryane is yet another variation I've come across in these searches.

I feel Adragool is a bit far from Roscommon but always wise to keep it on the 'just in case' pile.

Quote
I really do not understand the townlands and how they are related but thought the name connections were interesting.
Outside of cities and towns the countryside the smallest administrative unit was the townland which also served as an 'address.' A group of townlands make up a civil parish but the Catholic Church had it's own system of churches & parishes (usually different boundaries & often different names than the civil ones).
When civil registration was introduced in Ireland it basically followed the boundaries of the earlier Poor Law Unions. When searching Irish Genealogy you'll notice we are usually putting 'Roscommon' into the location box as Roscommon town as well as Corbo, etc. are in that district. Each district, however, has subdistricts. For example, under Roscommon are Athleague, Ballyleague, Roscommon.
This is the site I use to find registration districts & which ones are near each other-
https://www.swilson.info/regdistmap.php
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: aghadowey on Saturday 15 January 22 08:55 GMT (UK)
Another brother for John & William, also a shoemaker- James (c1821-1877), unmarried-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1877/020546/7210065.pdf

Which makes the James in Adragool too young to be the father of James, John, William, etc.
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Saturday 15 January 22 09:32 GMT (UK)

I really do not understand the townlands and how they are related but thought the name connections were interesting.


Here's a good website to understand the townland being the most fundamental of all Irish land divisions - Irish Genealogy Toolkit.

https://www.irish-genealogy-toolkit.com/Irish-land-divisions.html


Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: Formernewyorker on Saturday 15 January 22 20:32 GMT (UK)
I did find James Shreane or Shreane on the Irish Poverty Relief Funds 1810 - 1887 Living Ballymore in Lissonuffy County Roscommon for 1838, 1839, 1840, 1841, 1842, 1843, 1844, 1845 and 1846.
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: aghadowey on Saturday 15 January 22 20:57 GMT (UK)
I did find James Shreane or Shreane on the Irish Poverty Relief Funds 1810 - 1887 Living Ballymore in Lissonuffy County Roscommon for 1838, 1839, 1840, 1841, 1842, 1843, 1844, 1845 and 1846.

https://www.townlands.ie/roscommon/roscommon/lissonuffy/killavackan/ballymore/

Bit far from Roscommon but you can see what church registers are online to search for the children we know about so far-
https://registers.nli.ie/
Not sure which R.C. parish it comes under- perhaps Kilbride or Clontuskert?

Kilbride baptisms start 1835, however, I did come across other Shruhan family there in previous searches. https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0559
Clontuskert has nothing pre-registration. https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0540
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: Formernewyorker on Sunday 16 January 22 01:10 GMT (UK)
I did search the Tithe Appointment Book and there are only two John Nevin in Lissonuffy Parish in 1825.

There were a group of people in Ballyscully 49 in Galway Tynagh Parish in 1826. Not sure if anything is relevant.

Pat Malloy
This Larkin
Peter Madden
John Flynn
John Madden
Hugh Madden
Thaddy Nevin
Thos Nevin

There were in Corbo in 1826 & 1824
Killbride Parish

Gilleran (my grandmother ancestors)
Madden
Flynn
Murphy (my Aunt Mary married a Murphy)

There was a Wm Shruhan or Shreehan in Castlemeadow St. in Roscommon in 1824

Lots of McDonnell in Roscommon

Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: Maiden Stone on Sunday 16 January 22 05:34 GMT (UK)
I did search the Tithe Appointment Book and there are only two John Nevin in Lissonuffy Parish in 1825.

There were a group of people in Ballyscully 49 in Galway Tynagh Parish in 1826. Not sure if anything is relevant.

The Tithe Applotment books contain only a fraction of people, only those who held enough of the right sort of land which made them liable to pay tithes. None of my ancestors are in it. There are very few names in my ancestors' townlands in Tithe Applotment books compared to the number in Griffiths' Valuation.
A few reasons for the lack of people in Tithe Applotment books:
 Tithes were levied on agricultural land; if your ancestor was a landless farm labourer or a servant or worked in a shop in town, they didn't pay tithes.
Land holdings had been subdivided so often among sons and then among their sons, that some land portions were too small to be considered.
Some sub-tenants paid their rent (or did work in lieu of rent) to another tenant. That tenant might be responsible for collecting rent from several sub-tenants and it was his name which was recorded in the tithe books, not the sub-tenants. 

Re. list of people in Tynagh, County Galway. I doubt they are relevant unless you have other evidence that your ancestors were there. They are almost all common surnames + v. common forenames e.g. Malloy or Mally is one of the commonest names in Mayo. Tynagh is near Loughrea in Co. Galway, if it's the village I think it is.
   

https://registers.nli.ie/
Not sure which R.C. parish it comes under- perhaps Kilbride or Clontuskert?

I use Shane Wilson's website to match church parishes to places. His registration district finder is useful too. Website has an introduction to Irish FH and a guide to sources. Link in aghadowey's reply #73.
I also use the little map in the corner of a parish page on NLI Catholic Registers website, checking which are adjacent parishes to the one I'm interested in.
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: Formernewyorker on Monday 31 January 22 17:18 GMT (UK)
I want to thank you again for all the valuable information on  my great grandmother Ellen and her family. Since I have found burial information on ancestors that immigrated to the US, it got me thinking. Since there is documented proof through a Roscommon Messanger that Ellen Nevin, my great grandmother is buried at Derrane Cemetary, wouldnít it be likely that my great grandfather Thomas is buried there too. As I wrote about too that my father Michael put on tombstone in 1982 in Derrane Cemetary to honor his family, and since my great grandmother Ellen, my grandparents Ellen Gilleran Nevin, her daughter Catherine and her husband Thomas Nevin all died at Corbo, my grandparents may be buried at Derrane too. I thought if I could get burial records of all of them, it might clear up the mystery of my grandfatherís birth date and a record of a death of my great grandfather Thomas. This might also help to determine the birth dates of my great grandparents as well. I have Ellen Gilleran (my grandmother birth records).  I know that Derrane is part of the Elphin diocese so do I write a letter there? Are burial records even kept that long ago.
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: Maiden Stone on Monday 31 January 22 18:58 GMT (UK)
"Ten facts about Irish gravestones" new article on Ireland Reaching Out website.
List of gravestone resources at end of Fact 9.
https://irelandxo.com/ireland-xo/news/ten-facts-about-irish-gravestones
Ireland Reaching Out is a family history forum for the Irish diaspora. The forum is arranged by county then by civil parish. You could put an enquiry about the graveyard on the civil parish for Derrane. There may be a local volunteer who knows.   
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: Formernewyorker on Monday 31 January 22 22:39 GMT (UK)
Thanks. I will.
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: Maiden Stone on Tuesday 01 February 22 00:25 GMT (UK)
There are Derrane graveyards on Find a Grave. https://www.findagrave.com
Roscommon County Council has published a list of graveyards + a leaflet about them.
www.roscommoncoco.ie/en
Graveyards are in the Heritage section of Community, Arts and Heritage department.
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: Formernewyorker on Wednesday 02 February 22 00:42 GMT (UK)
I put the Nevin name in and no records came up.

Thanks anyway.
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: Formernewyorker on Friday 04 February 22 15:56 GMT (UK)
Remember in Reply 73 that the Shruane boys were shoemakers that their father may be as well. Well when I looked at Form A in the 1901 Irish census for Ellen Nevin, it says Ellen is a farmerís daughter.
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: Maiden Stone on Friday 04 February 22 21:26 GMT (UK)
Remember in Reply 73 that the Shruane boys were shoemakers that their father may be as well. Well when I looked at Form A in the 1901 Irish census for Ellen Nevin, it says Ellen is a farmerís daughter.

That was a strange thing for her to put for occupation on a census as her father was dead. It would be like me writing it for my occupation on this year's census although my farmer dad has been deceased for decades. Occupation on the death certificate of the last of my great-aunts was farmer's daughter. Her father had been dead for 42 years. She was over 80, never married and had remained on the family farm with a brother and sister after their parents died. The brother and sister predeceased her so she owned the farm. Informant was a cousin.

Link to the census and to Michael Flynn's marriage is in reply #8. Both fathers were dead and occupation box is blank.
Some farmers had another occupation. A small farm may not have produced enough income for a family. There were agricultural disasters, potato blight, fowl & cattle diseases. One of my great-uncles in Mayo was a farmer & shopkeeper.
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: Formernewyorker on Tuesday 22 February 22 02:20 GMT (UK)
I just came across this in the Lisacul The Gathering 2013 and since the Shruhan brothers were shoemakers and possibly father also maybe this was a family business started by their ancestors in 1877. I know from previous posts Shryane is another variation of name.

Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: Formernewyorker on Tuesday 22 February 22 02:58 GMT (UK)
Also, a James Egan Shoes St. Patrickís St. Castlerea, Roscommon. Maybe the shoemaking business carried on from one generation to another.
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: Maiden Stone on Tuesday 22 February 22 14:40 GMT (UK)
Replies 87 & 88.
I saw a post with  photo of a 20th century.Shryane shop in a County Mayo family history Facebook group. The shop may have been in Ballaghaderreen.
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: Formernewyorker on Friday 25 March 22 02:51 GMT (UK)
Hi,

Still researching through baptisms hoping to find my grandfather Thomas Nevin and his parents Thomas Nevin and Ellen Shruhan births.

I did find these, may not be relevant but wanted to know what you think. Donít know how to send link from registers.nil.ie.

I found a Jacobus Shruhan baptism on 9/8/1840 Roscommon & Kilteevan Microfilm 04614/05, page 33, showing parents if I am reading it correctly Jacobi & Mariae Ward. Could Jacobi be James Shruhan (my great grandmotherís father) and Mariae Ward his wife, my great grandmotherís mother)

I also found in the same microfilm, page 78 a baptism of Catherineinam Nephin on 10/13/1844 with parents Michael & Catherine Nephin. (Again not sure if I am reading correctly). The thing that made a connection to me is that is godparents are underneath, it read John Shruhan and Eliza Scully. Could Catherineinam be a sister to my great grandfather since Thomas Nevin married a Shruhan? Let me know what you think?
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: Formernewyorker on Friday 25 March 22 16:34 GMT (UK)
Found another baptism for Shruhan on 9/18/1839. Cannot understand the record. Microfilm 04614/05,
Page 23.

Can you help decipher?
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: Maiden Stone on Friday 25 March 22 18:51 GMT (UK)
Found another baptism for Shruhan on 9/18/1839. Cannot understand the record. Microfilm 04614/05,
Page 23.

Can you help decipher?

https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633981#page/23/1up
18th September 1839
Annam SHRUAN
Gulielmi et Onoria (?) DODY (?)
Lanesborough st...... (Are last 2 letters ss written as fs?)
Sp. Michale MOORE,  Maria  DO....L....

My translation:
Ann SHRUAN of William & Onoria DODY
Lanesborough st.......
Sponsors Michael Moore, Maria/Mary DO.......
"Onoria" may be Honor/Honoria/Nora

When writing a date would you please write the month in letters to avoid confusion? E.g. 9/8/1840 in your previous post is 9th August 1840 to me. Then I saw the next date you wrote 10/13/1844 which puzzled me for a moment as there is no 13th month, before realising that 13th is the day of the month and the first figure in each of your dates is the number of the month. 
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: Maiden Stone on Friday 25 March 22 19:29 GMT (UK)

Donít know how to send link from registers.nil.ie.

I found a Jacobus Shruhan baptism on 9/8/1840 Roscommon & Kilteevan Microfilm 04614/05, page 33, showing parents if I am reading it correctly Jacobi & Mariae Ward.

I also found in the same microfilm, page 78 a baptism of Catherineinam Nephin on 10/13/1844 with parents Michael & Catherine Nephin. (Again not sure if I am reading correctly). The thing that made a connection to me is that is godparents are underneath, it read John Shruhan and Eliza Scully.

Baptism 8th September 1840
James SHRUHAN, James & Maria Ward
John SHRUHAN, Maria WARD
There are 2 words on 2nd line. First looks like "vaga" meaning something like wanderer/traveller/ no fixed abode/stranger/doesn't live in parish. I can't decipher 2nd word. It was written on several baptisms on the page; maybe name of priest? I though at first it was something like "nup..." indicating parents were married but it was usually written "conj.(ugam)" in Latin.
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633981#page/32/mode/1up

Baptism 13th October 1844
Catherine KEEF,  Michael & Catherine NEPHIN
Lansbr (?) st  John SHRUFFIN (?), Eliza ....LLY
           nxp (?)
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633981#page/77/mode/1up
You're probably correct that Eliza's surname is Scully.
Residence "Lansbr..." may be same as for baptism of Ann Shruan 1839 in reply 92.
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: Maiden Stone on Friday 25 March 22 19:55 GMT (UK)

Baptism 13th October 1844
Catherine KEEF,  Michael & Catherine NEPHIN
Lansbr (?) st  John SHRUFFIN (?), Eliza ....LLY
           nxp (?)
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633981#page/77/mode/1up

Residence "Lansbr..." may be same as for baptism of Ann Shruan 1839 in reply 92.

There's a Lanesborough Street in Roscommon Town.
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: Formernewyorker on Saturday 26 March 22 01:44 GMT (UK)
I apologize about the dates. Thank you for your response.
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: Formernewyorker on Saturday 26 March 22 02:09 GMT (UK)
I was trying to figure out if the Nephin and Shruhan in reply #92 and #93 are additions to my family. I know from reply #23 the Shruhan Family (my great grandmother is Ellen Shruhan) and great grandfather is Thomas Nevin.

Since the Shruhan lived at Lanesboro Street/Ave, and a Catherine born at Lanesboro with parents Michael & Catherine if I am reading your response correct, wondering if Michael & Catherine could be my great grandfather parents too.

Maybe the Shruhan and Nephin (another variation of Nevin) were neighbors and that is how my great grandparents met.

Thanks again for any help.

I have no birth or death record for my great grandfather Thomas Nevin. I have death records only for my great grandmother Ellen Shruhan Nevin and my grandfather Thomas Nevin.
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Saturday 26 March 22 07:32 GMT (UK)

There's a Lanesborough Street in Roscommon Town.


OSi National Townland and Historical Map Viewer
Lanesborough Street, town of Roscommon (Historic 25" map)
https://arcg.is/1fyuib1


Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: Formernewyorker on Sunday 27 March 22 00:59 GMT (UK)
I found a Thomas Nevin, but am I reading this right. Is he a godparent in this record. Roscommon & Kilteevan, page 62 May, 27, 1843. If not, can you explain? Thank you.

Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: Formernewyorker on Sunday 27 March 22 04:18 BST (UK)
While researching birth records of Nevin/Navin found in the late 1880ís birth records of a John & Margaret Navanís children came up. May not be related. In reply #30 it was noted no record in 1901 census of Lanesboro Street. Ironically this family put Lanesboro Street on the birth records and another noteable fact John Navin was a shoemaker. Makes me even more interested of the connection of the Shruhan and Nevin clans.
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: aghadowey on Sunday 27 March 22 11:32 BST (UK)
John Nevin/Navin (c1854-1927), shoemaker, m.(1882) Margaret ďMaggieĒ Gormly (c1861-1914)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1882/10977/8012852.pdf (his father Thomas, shoemaker, alive)
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Roscommon/Roscommon_Urban/Lanesboro_Street__Ballypheasan_/783865/  (10 ch./7 living) Note: Kitty is Bridgetís daughter
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1914/05287/4469400.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1927/04971/4353772.pdf
Roscommon Messenger, 9 July 1927: Death of Mr. John Nevin, Lansboroí street. Ö regret to have to records this week the death of a much-respected resident of the town in the person of Mr. John Nevin, Lanesboroí Street, at a ripe old age. The late Mr. Nevin was highly respected by everyone with whom he came in contact Ö
1. Thomas (1883-aft.1911)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1883/02711/1998180.pdf
2. John (1885-aft.1911)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1885/02634/1971709.pdf
3. Peter (1887-aft.1911)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1887/02558/1946431.pdf
4.   Bridget (1889-aft.1911)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1889/02462/1914606.pdf
     a. Kitty/Katie (1909-aft.1911)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1910/01580/1636468.pdf (Katie)
5. Martin (1891-1893)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1891/02387/1890628.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1893/06009/4710385.pdf
6. Michael Joseph (1893) m.(1923) Margaret Brophy.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1893/02291/1859806.pdf (MIchael)
Roscommon Messenger, 21 Dec.1918: Mr John Nevin, Lanesboroí-street, Roscommon, has received intimation from France that his son, Corporal M J Nevin, has been awarded the Military Medal for conspicuous bravery on the battlefield on October 14th. Corporal Nevin, shortly before hostilities Ö
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1923/09175/5318274.pdf (Michael Joseph)
1927- Malahide, Co.Dublin
7. Patrick (1896-aft.1911)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1896/02181/1825819.pdf
8. James (1898-1898)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1898/02093/1798045.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1898/05812/4645213.pdf
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: Formernewyorker on Sunday 27 March 22 18:44 BST (UK)
Thank you to all of you. Since Nevin isnít such a common name in Roscommon, most likely related and also because of the Nevin/Shruhan connection, my great grandparents and Lanesboro Street.

Can someone reply to #98?

Again appreciate all the hard work everyone is doing to help me with my ancestor search.

Happy Spring!!
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: aghadowey on Sunday 27 March 22 21:11 BST (UK)
Quote
Can someone reply to #98?
Yes, he looks to be sponsor at the baptism.
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: Maiden Stone on Sunday 27 March 22 21:25 BST (UK)
Quote
Can someone reply to #98?
Yes, he looks to be sponsor at the baptism.

I think the child's surname was Kegan. I can't decide whether it was male or female; it was John or Jane/Joan/Joanna. Mother's maiden surname was Pad_ _ _
Title: Re: Thomas Nevinís Ancestors
Post by: Formernewyorker on Monday 28 March 22 00:03 BST (UK)
Thank you