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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: donnabailey77 on Thursday 13 January 22 02:14 GMT (UK)

Title: STEWART family arrival about 1830
Post by: donnabailey77 on Thursday 13 January 22 02:14 GMT (UK)
I am trying to trace the family of my 3rd great grandmother Emma STEWART. She was born about 1811 in Kensington and married William COLLIE in St Andrews Scots Church on 25 April 1836. The witnesses were a R.STEWART. Fk.STEWART and Lucy MILLAR. William was Scottish. She died in Newtown in 1903 and on her death certificate her father's name is given as Robert STEWART occupation Forwarding Agent. Her birthplace is listed as Kensington, London being in the colony 72 years (app. arrival 1829/30).

I have the death certificate for Frederick STEWART died 5 may 1881 in Newtown. This has his father as Robert STEWART occupation House Agent and mother's name Hannah Sophia HUMPHRYS. Time Birthplace is given as London and time in colony is 50 years (app. arrival 1830/31). The times match up and I believe this is her brother as Frederick is a name that is passed down to a son and grandson and it does not come from the COLLIE line which I have traced back into Scotland. Sophia is also a name that is passed on. Her eldest daughter is Sophia COLLIE and her 2nd eldest son WIlliam Frederick COLLIE named his first daughter Emma Sophia. Again, Sophia is not a name in the COLLIE tree going backwards. Emma herself is sometimes referred to as Emma Sophia COLLIE (although not on any official documents).

Years ago I paid a researcher in London to search the Kensington records for a baptism (going off her death certificate) but with no luck - and no STEWARTs at all.

I cannot find an arrival for Emma STEWART (b.c.1811) or Frederick STEWART (b.c.1817), or a Robert STEWART with family around 1830 in the assisted index. There is a Robert STEWART (a watchmaker) aged 25 arrived in 1832 on the Florentia but he arrives on his own.

In the unassisted index I found a Robert (attorney) and Mrs STEWART arrived in 1833 with children Robert Bruce and Josephine under 12 but this is obviously not my family.

These are the only Robert STEWARTs I have found arriving. I am completely stuck. Can anyone help me out? What should I do next? Where should I look?

Thanks for your time,
Izel



Title: Re: STEWART family arrival about 1830
Post by: maddys52 on Thursday 13 January 22 02:39 GMT (UK)
There is this letter of thanks to the Captain of the Florentia which arrived in Sydney in Aug 1832, One the undersigned is "Robert Stewart and family" - a possibility? (The same voyage has the Robert Stewart you have already found.)
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article2208035
Title: Re: STEWART family arrival about 1830
Post by: majm on Thursday 13 January 22 02:49 GMT (UK)
Agree with Maddy.  I will leave my post unedited.

Florentia arrived 10 August 1832.
The document shows that four STEWART names were crossed out in pencil
Robert STEWART, married, steerage
Mrs STEWART, wife, steerage
Daughter aged over 12, steerage
Daughter aged under 12, steerage.

https://www.records.nsw.gov.au/archives/collections-and-research/guides-and-indexes/assisted-immigrants-digital-shipping-lists   

https://indexes.records.nsw.gov.au/ebook/list.aspx?series=NRS5312&item=4_4822&ship=Florienta
and
https://indexes.records.nsw.gov.au/ebook/list.aspx?series=NRS5311&item=4_4824&ship=Florentia
and
https://indexes.records.nsw.gov.au/ebook/list.aspx?series=NRS5310&item=4_4823&ship=Florentia 

and Robert Stewart and family listed as signatures to letter thanking the captain.  Sydney Gazette 14 August 1832  here :  https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/2208035

Biographical Database of Australia has nominal subs for annual memberships and is a not for profit ongoing project   https://www.bda-online.org.au/

JM
Title: Re: STEWART family arrival about 1830
Post by: maddys52 on Thursday 13 January 22 02:50 GMT (UK)
I see on the steerage passenger list for the Florentia arriving in 1832 :
Robert STEWART and wife
2 Daughters (1 over 12 years, 1 under 12 years)

Had typed this , so will leave it - you type quicker than me JM!
Title: Re: STEWART family arrival about 1830
Post by: majm on Thursday 13 January 22 02:53 GMT (UK)
both hands, possibly,  one finger NOPE! 
Title: Re: STEWART family arrival about 1830
Post by: donnabailey77 on Thursday 13 January 22 03:25 GMT (UK)
Thanks for the help :)

Unfortunately my eyesight is going so I can't even see them listed  :'(  It fits as in the family files I do have a sister for Emma b.c.1811 and that is Hannah Sophia b.c.1820 so that is one under 12 and one over 12. Unfortunately I haven't got any more information on this Hannah except that she married Patrick McKINLEY in 1847 but I haven't looked for that marriage record. I did try looking for a death of Hannah Sophia McKINLEY but could find none. My family file says she died in 1855 in Gundagai but I haven't found any matching record for that.

I have checked the 1841 census and I can't seem to find them... I was hoping to find them and locate their burials but so far all the Robert STEWARTs I have traced haven't been the right one... This family is proving to be quite elusive  :(

Thanks again,
Izel
Title: Re: STEWART family arrival about 1830
Post by: donnabailey77 on Thursday 13 January 22 03:27 GMT (UK)
Also, I'm not sure what to make of Frederick STEWART b.c.1817 then as he would have been about 15 but no son is listed...
Title: Re: STEWART family arrival about 1830
Post by: majm on Thursday 13 January 22 04:33 GMT (UK)
MAY BE A SIDE TRACK, but

Birth 30 July 1852, C of E baptism at St Phillip’s Sydney CBD 15 October 1852 by Rev William COWPER:

Walter Douglas, son of William COLLIE, a publican  and his wife Emma of Circular Quay.   


ADD,  sorry forgot to note that this is indexed online at NSW BDM as: 1852, Walter D, parents as William and Emma COLLIER.

JM
Title: Re: STEWART family arrival about 1830
Post by: donnabailey77 on Thursday 13 January 22 04:49 GMT (UK)
Yes this is the brother of my 2nd great grandfather Robert James COLLIE b.1846 in Port Macquarie. I have a ton of info on the COLLIEs - both coming forward and going back to Scotland, but unfortunately no one knows anything about poor Emma's family, the STEWARTs. It is proving a very difficult task to track them down..
Title: Re: STEWART family arrival about 1830
Post by: majm on Thursday 13 January 22 05:04 GMT (UK)
Have you considered that some official records may have been recorded by officials who wrote what they thought they heard, based on their own accents and education, ..... So STEWART,  STUART, STURT, STEWARD, STOLLART, STOLLARD, SCHART,  and ROBERTS, ROBERTSON, ROBINSON, etc ...  where the first names have inadvertently swapped around.

JM
Title: Re: STEWART family arrival about 1830
Post by: donnabailey77 on Thursday 13 January 22 05:06 GMT (UK)
Yes I have had that happen with other families so I have looked for all variations I can think of for STEWART and still haven't been able to find them.
Title: Re: STEWART family arrival about 1830
Post by: wivenhoe on Thursday 13 January 22 05:32 GMT (UK)


Where is Emma COLLIE buried?

When did husband William COLLIE die?  Where is he buried?

Robert STEWART, father to your Emma would seem to have better than average occupation. Do you see a Will for him at death in NSW?.
Title: Re: STEWART family arrival about 1830
Post by: donnabailey77 on Thursday 13 January 22 05:38 GMT (UK)
Emma died in Newtown in 1903 and I have her death certificate. Her mother's name is not listed and her father is given as Robert STEWART occupation Forwarding Agent.

William died in Grafton in 1875 and I have his death certificate.

No I hadn't thought to search for a will for Robert. Where are these indexes located?
Title: Re: STEWART family arrival about 1830
Post by: donnabailey77 on Thursday 13 January 22 05:41 GMT (UK)
I just found that Robert STEWART died 19 dec 1865 does have a will. How do I get a copy of this?
Title: Re: STEWART family arrival about 1830
Post by: donnabailey77 on Thursday 13 January 22 05:41 GMT (UK)
Lol never mind. I figured it out
Title: Re: STEWART family arrival about 1830
Post by: donnabailey77 on Thursday 13 January 22 06:03 GMT (UK)
So the will mentions his children but no mention of any of his siblings.

One other lead is on his death certificate it says his father was a soldier. This would be the Mr Robert STEWART who arrived on the "Florentia" in 1832 with wife and 2 daughters. I am assuming at this stage he had been discharged and then worked as a House/Forwarding Agent as this is what his occupation was listed as on Emma and Frederick's death certificates. The informants on these much later certificates were Robert's (senior) grandchildren, whereas the informant for Robert's (junior - the watchmaker) death certificate is his brother Frederick.

I'm not sure what to do with this soldier information as if he wasn't a soldier any more when he arrived in Australia with his family I don't know where to look for his records without any other identifying information.

The Robert STEWART records I found discharged in 1824 in Sydney was a Robert STEWART who had enlisted in 1801 in Leeds, Yorkshire and appears to be a different Robert STEWART (d.10 may 1834) who married a Mary - both of whom are buried in the Devonshire Street Cemetery in Sydney.

Any thoughts?
Title: Re: STEWART family arrival about 1830
Post by: majm on Thursday 13 January 22 07:37 GMT (UK)
What foot regiment for the Robert Stewart  taking discharge Sydney 1824 please.

There may be military payrolls, and further documents in the Australian Joint Copying Project that is now digitised as part of Trove.


JM
Title: Re: STEWART family arrival about 1830
Post by: majm on Thursday 13 January 22 07:55 GMT (UK)



So the will mentions his children but no mention of any of his siblings.

One other lead is on his death certificate it says his father was a soldier. ........

....



I'm not sure what to do with this soldier information as if he wasn't a soldier any more when he arrived in Australia with his family I don't know where to look for his records without any other identifying information.

The Robert STEWART records I found discharged in 1824 in Sydney was a Robert STEWART who had enlisted in 1801 in Leeds, Yorkshire and appears to be a different Robert STEWART (d.10 may 1834) who married a Mary - both of whom are buried in the Devonshire Street Cemetery in Sydney.

Any thoughts?

Could be 48th regiment.

He died 1834,  buried Devonshire St,  and later re-interred La Perouse.  Wife's name for this chap was Mary. 

I will type up info tomorrow if you need it, but he was born 1778,  arrived 1814ish firstly to VDL, babies born there, then by 1819 back in Sydney and more babies born.  1828 census family in Erskine St, Sydney. 
Title: Re: STEWART family arrival about 1830
Post by: maddys52 on Thursday 13 January 22 09:00 GMT (UK)
It fits as in the family files I do have a sister for Emma b.c.1811 and that is Hannah Sophia b.c.1820 so that is one under 12 and one over 12.

There is a possible baptism for Hannah STEWARD at Sproughton, Suffolk on 3 Feb 1819, parents Robert and Sophia. I can only see the index, so not sure what other information may be on the register.  :-\

Modified to add:
Sorry, wrong family as they are still baptising children after 1832.
Title: Re: STEWART family arrival about 1830
Post by: maddys52 on Thursday 13 January 22 09:10 GMT (UK)
Again, possibly not related - there is a baptism of a Humphrey STEWART in St Mary Lancaster on 10 April 1813 to parents Robert and Sophia. Robert is "quartermaster sargeant in the Carlow militia".
Title: Re: STEWART family arrival about 1830
Post by: majm on Thursday 13 January 22 11:24 GMT (UK)
The 48th were on garrison duties in Ireland 1813.... I will get my copy papers out on the weekend, in case. :D

JM
Title: Re: STEWART family arrival about 1830
Post by: donnabailey77 on Thursday 13 January 22 21:25 GMT (UK)
According to Robert's (junior) death certificate (informant his brother Frederick) Robert was born at sea about 1809. But the family does not come to Australia until 1832 on the Florentia so this birth at sea is over 20 years earlier and I am assuming it is related to their father's military service. (Both Robert and Frederick's death certificates line up with the date of 1832 for their arrival into Australia)

I am assuming the father Robert had been discharged and retired from his military service before he then brought his family out to Australia in 1832. On Emma's death certificate her father's occupation is given as Forwarding Agent. On her brother Frederick's death certificate their father's occupation is listed as House Agent. It was only on Robert junior's death (the earliest death and his brother Frederick is informant) where he is listed as soldier. Perhaps this is because he was a soldier as they were growing up and this is therefore what Frederick considered his occupation, whereas the later deaths of Emma and Frederick have grandchildren as informants and say a House/Forwarding Agent. Maybe this was his job once he had retired from military service and brought his family to Australia?

So with this soldier information I need to look at British military records when the family was still back in London? I'm not sure where to start looking but it does appear this is where the clues are pointing.
Title: Re: STEWART family arrival about 1830
Post by: Neale1961 on Thursday 13 January 22 22:07 GMT (UK)
Unfortunately, the name is rather too common and you do not know where he came from, or when he was born, so searching for military records will be difficult. Here is just a small sample of possibilities:

ROBERT STEWART
Born GIBRALTAR, Gibraltar
Served in 11th Foot Regiment; Carlow Militia
Discharged aged 54
Date: 1826
(Covering date gives year of discharge.)


ROBERT STEWART
Born ANTRIM, Antrim
Served in 20th Foot Regiment; Fife Fencibles
Discharged aged 39
Date 1798-1829

ROBERT STEWART
Born AUGHALOO, Tyrone
Served in Tyrone Militia
Discharged aged 40
Date: 1804-1822

ROBERT STEWART
Born RAPHOE, Donegal
Served in 90th Foot Regiment
Discharged aged 43
Date: 1806-1820

ROBERT STEWART
Born AHOUGHILL, Antrim
Served in 94th Foot Regiment; West Lothian Fencibles
Discharged aged 43
Date: 1793-1818

ROBERT STEWART
Born ABERFOYLE, Perthshire
Served in 15th Foot Regiment
Discharged aged 29
Date: 1811-1822

Title: Re: STEWART family arrival about 1830
Post by: majm on Thursday 13 January 22 22:19 GMT (UK)
Have you looked at the various options I mentioned earlier? 

The BDA index is an ongoing project, and there's certainly more than 2 chaps noted there who could be 'your' Robert STEWART.   

Anyway, here's some more on that soldier
.....

I'm not sure what to do with this soldier information as if he wasn't a soldier any more when he arrived in Australia with his family I don't know where to look for his records without any other identifying information.

The Robert STEWART records I found discharged in 1824 in Sydney was a Robert STEWART who had enlisted in 1801 in Leeds, Yorkshire and appears to be a different Robert STEWART (d.10 may 1834) who married a Mary - both of whom are buried in the Devonshire Street Cemetery in Sydney.

Any thoughts?

Sydney Burial Ground Re-internments and Monumental Inscriptions.
Robert and Mary STEWART’s stone after removal from Devonshire St 1901 to La Perouse CofE, Section 4S, Plot 147.
Robert STEWART Late of HM 46TH Regt of Foot, died 10 May 1834 aged 56 years. 

Robert STEWART enlisted for 14 years, and seems his original regiment was the 46th, then on 25th March 1817  transferred to 48th regiment and then on 24  March 1824 to 3rd regiment.   (basically transferring allowed him to remain in NSW colony when those regiments tours of duty as garrison forces in NSW/VDL was completed and the regiments where shipped out.

https://www.bda-online.org.au/files/MR9_Military.pdf 

The Col Sec Papers INDEX has Robert STEWART formerly of the 48th, as being invalided from the 48th Regiment, per a memo where he is recorded as STEWARD … November 1825.  He received orders for grants of land 15 Nov 1825.  There’s NSW State Archives Ref numbers etc.
 https://www.records.nsw.gov.au/archives/collections-and-research/guides-and-indexes/colonial-secretarys-papers
If you are looking up the regiments, then the Col Sec papers INDEX includes them under the words eg ‘Forty-eighth (48th) Regiment” or “Forty-seventh (47th) Regiment” and the reel numbers are usually noted there too, and can often be digitised at Trove via the Australian Joint Copying Project.

JM


Title: Re: STEWART family arrival about 1830
Post by: donnabailey77 on Thursday 13 January 22 22:58 GMT (UK)
Yes i looked into the Robert STEWART who died in 1834 but this can't be the correct one as he arrived in 1814 via the "Wyndham" and his wife was Mary.

I haven't been able to find a burial for my Robert STEWART arrived 1832 on the "Florentia" - wife Hannah Sophia or Sophia...  It's like Robert and his wife disappeared and I can only find traces of their children Robert (watchmaker), Frederick and Emma (married William COLLIE in 1836 - my 3rd great grandmother). There is also supposed to be a sister Hannah Sophia (daughter under 12 on Florentia) who according to old family papers married a Patrick McKINLEY in 1847 and died in Gundagai in 1855. Unfortunately I have not been able to find her to get her death certificate. Even using all the versions of McKINLEY I can think of I haven't found her death/burial.

An interesting tidbit is that on Frederick's death certificate in 1881 (aged 64) his occupation is listed as Gentleman...
Title: Re: STEWART family arrival about 1830
Post by: Neale1961 on Thursday 13 January 22 23:20 GMT (UK)
There is also supposed to be a sister Hannah Sophia (daughter under 12 on Florentia) who according to old family papers married a Patrick McKINLEY in 1847 and died in Gundagai in 1855.
Marriage record
Title: Re: STEWART family arrival about 1830
Post by: donnabailey77 on Thursday 13 January 22 23:36 GMT (UK)
Yes I have found the marriage but that is all. I haven't bought the marriage as being so early I don't think it will have any additional clues to track down her father Robert. I hoped to find her death certificate to purchase to go with the ones for her siblings to compare the information on it but no luck so far.
Title: Re: STEWART family arrival about 1830
Post by: maddys52 on Thursday 13 January 22 23:39 GMT (UK)


 It's like Robert and his wife disappeared

There is this mention of a "Robert STEWART, retired soldier" of Erskine St, Sydney in 1834 (filing a claim for an allotment):
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article230686933
(page 437, item no 663)

 :-\

Modified: Quite a few mention Robert STEWART of Erskine St. This one describes the extent and position of the property:
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article230687007
(page 481, item 674)
Title: Re: STEWART family arrival about 1830
Post by: donnabailey77 on Thursday 13 January 22 23:47 GMT (UK)
This definitely looks like it could be my Robert.
Title: Re: STEWART family arrival about 1830
Post by: majm on Thursday 13 January 22 23:49 GMT (UK)
I am editing my post, it is the same trove link as Maddy.

I wonder about the names mentioned in the notice.  The land is in Kent St,  Robert STEWART and William HOWARD are both of Erskine St   Who is Frances JOHNSON and her Children ?

663 By Robert Stewart, retired soldier, Erskine street, and William Howard, boat builder, Erskine street, in trust for Frances Johnson and her children, to 28 perches of land, described as follows:
situate in Kent-street, in the township of Sydney, in the county of Cumberland, ....


JM
 
Title: Re: STEWART family arrival about 1830
Post by: majm on Thursday 13 January 22 23:53 GMT (UK)


 It's like Robert and his wife disappeared

There is this mention of a "Robert STEWART, retired soldier" of Erskine St, Sydney in 1834 (filing a claim for an allotment):
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article230686933
(page 437, item no 663)

 :-\

Modified: Quite a few mention Robert STEWART of Erskine St. This one describes the extent and position of the property:
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article230687007
(page 481, item 674)

and

This definitely looks like it could be my Robert.

The Col Sec Papers Index shows that Thomas BRISBANE made grants to Robert STEWART, soldier when he was invalided out.  Thomas Brisbane was NSW governor from 1821 to 1825.  Robert Stewart was invalided out in 1824.   

ADD the soldier who died 10 May 1834 was very likely the same Robert STEWART receiving those land grants. You will need to access the actual documents.

JM
Title: Re: STEWART family arrival about 1830
Post by: donnabailey77 on Thursday 13 January 22 23:59 GMT (UK)
Wow thanks. I am all new to searching for this so I have a lot to learn about how to search the records available.
Title: Re: STEWART family arrival about 1830
Post by: majm on Friday 14 January 22 00:03 GMT (UK)
Yes I have found the marriage but that is all. I haven't bought the marriage as being so early I don't think it will have any additional clues to track down her father Robert. I hoped to find her death certificate to purchase to go with the ones for her siblings to compare the information on it but no luck so far.

Yes, it will be scant with family history background, but it should note the official witnesses, and the then current addresses of the bride and the groom, and sometimes the witnesses addresses too, and it may even have the ages of the bride and the groom.  It can also be useful if the clergyman was on a circuit into the then 'regional' settled districts of NSW as the bride was often married from her father's home, particularly if no local church building existed.

JM
Title: Re: STEWART family arrival about 1830
Post by: maddys52 on Friday 14 January 22 00:05 GMT (UK)


The Col Sec Papers Index shows that Thomas BRISBANE made grants to Robert STEWART, soldier when he was invalided out.  Thomas Brisbane was NSW governor from 1821 to 1825.  Robert Stewart was invalided out in 1824.   

ADD the soldier who died 10 May 1834 was very likely the same Robert STEWART receiving those land grants. You will need to access the actual documents.


Yes, I wondered if it was the "other" Robert STEWART.  :-\ Can't see any mention of him after this date.
Title: Re: STEWART family arrival about 1830
Post by: donnabailey77 on Friday 14 January 22 00:06 GMT (UK)
Yes I think it might be the other Robert but I will have to check the documents to be sure
Title: Re: STEWART family arrival about 1830
Post by: majm on Friday 14 January 22 00:15 GMT (UK)
Wow thanks. I am all new to searching for this so I have a lot to learn about how to search the records available.

NSW State Archives,  NSW State Library, both have excellent resources, online and at their physical locations, NO charge for entry or for the provided space to sit and handle the resources there.  And the staff are ever so knowledgeable, friendly and helpful.  Then there's the City of Sydney Archives and there's many other resources too, including those listed at RChat's Australian Resources Board and its sub-boards.  https://www.rootschat.com/forum/australia-resources-offers/

NSW State Archives:   

https://www.records.nsw.gov.au/archives/collections-and-research
and
https://www.records.nsw.gov.au/archives/collections-and-research/guides-and-indexes/indexes-a-z
and
 https://www.records.nsw.gov.au/archives/webinars
and
https://www.records.nsw.gov.au/archives/events
and
https://www.records.nsw.gov.au/archives/magazine/nowthen-enewsletter
and
https://www.records.nsw.gov.au/

And of course Mr Google can be your friend when you are on your puter from your armchair.



JM
Title: Re: STEWART family arrival about 1830
Post by: phenolphthalein on Friday 14 January 22 02:45 GMT (UK)
Hi Donna
You mention a 15 year old male not appearing with the rest of the family.

There are a few possibilities for this -- the first being he travelled separately to the family either before or after they came -- so it might be worth checking both assisted and unassisted immigration records -- an advantage is frederick as that or fred or fk or just f is rarer than Robert.  At that time folk were often apprenticed at 12 or 13 so there may have been reasons for him travelling separately. Knowing Fredrick's occupation might help find his arrival.

Being 15 he might appear amongst the single males on the same vessel rather than as part of the family.

Pre 1856 marriages are available to search for free on microfilm in many australian libraries.  It might include Patrick McKInley's occupation and this together with the location might help you track the family. and those all too valuable witnesses. that said it night also just say their names.

Have you found any McKInley kids.  I would imagine Patrick McKInley is not that common. An obituary for the next generation might contain info on the previous one. Also in the death index try to find mrs Mckinley without a surname but both parents first names.

Remember too that folk travelled interstate so a look at the qld or vic indexes both free on-line might be worth a shot.

Hannah Sophia might appear as Ann or Anna and as Sophie or as Mrs McKinely with or without his or her initial on trove,

Regards
pH