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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Durham => Topic started by: Elliven on Tuesday 14 June 22 12:57 BST (UK)
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Can anyone please help with William Mosley who was a joiner and undertaker and appeared on the 1881 census with his large family living in Dipton. After that I have lost track of him except for a reference to his eldest son John who emigrated to New Zealand about 1887. I have not been able to find out whether the whole family went with him or whether he went alone. Many thanks.
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1891
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:WFYH-P2M
1901 (with daughter Lizzie and family)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSZM-5MG
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Thank you - that seems to suggest he stayed in England and did not go to New Zealand with his son
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possible burial in 1916 at Stanley Cemetery
from a list available a long time ago online, from Durham Council but they took them down and said they had errors. I'd saved the .pdfs though so still have them and so far they have proved to be correct.
Entry 458. William Mosley, age 83, died at Workhouse Infirmary, Lanchester, buried 11 Oct, site 9, plot 36
Durham Records Online have the same info.
Boo
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That burial now looks likely given the son in law's name in this notice
Consett Guardian 13 Oct 1916, page 8 col 8
MOSLEY 37 Clifford Road, Stanley (at the residence of his son in law Thomas Wood) on 7th inst,
William Mosley, aged 83 years.
EDIT :
the image from the burial register
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSJW-JSH1-Z?cat=997171
Boo
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Thank you Boo,
This is undoubtedly the right man. His daughter Lizzie (Elizabeth) was married to a man named Thomas Wood. The only difference is that they lived at a different address from the last known address at the time of the 1911 Census - but the addresses were both quite close together. His family in New Zealand will be delighted.
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Sadly, his wife, Elizabeth, and 7 year old daughter, Florence, both died in 1882/1883 but I have not been able to find their deaths or he causes. Possibly an epidemic of some sort.
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Possible deaths
Florence Meggie Mosley Mar 1884 Newcastle T 10b 40 age 6
Elizabeth Mosely Jun 1884 Newcastle T 10b 24 aged 46
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Thank you emeltom,
They look right and the location of Newcastle seems to indicate deaths in hospital as there were no major hospitals in the Dipton area - where they lived. This makes me think TB, Scarlet Fever or something equally bad. Thank you, I will check this out
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Thank you emeltom,
They look right and the location of Newcastle seems to indicate deaths in hospital as there were no major hospitals in the Dipton area - where they lived. This makes me think TB, Scarlet Fever or something equally bad. Thank you, I will check this out
Looks like they were buried at St John's Westgate and Elswick (commonly billed as Elswick Cemetery)
Florence Maggie/Meggie
https://www.familysearch.org/search/ark:/61903/1:1:CX3X-GHZM
and Elizabeth
https://www.familysearch.org/search/ark:/61903/1:1:CX3F-6XZM
Boo
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That address is fairly close to Newcastle General Hospital but a long way from Dipton so unless there was some reason for burying them as close to the hospital, I must assume that they are the wrong people. It is just incredible that there were two deaths of a mother and daughter with the same names and approximate ages and at the same time - all this coincidence and living only about 10 miles apart!
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If they had died at the hospital the burial record would normally say so (though not always). I can't see any other likely death registrations for either Elizabeth or Florence.
I suspect this address of 56 Longley Street, may have been the home of their son.
Florence Meggie's birth registration has a MMN of Knowley
The 1883 electoral register for 56 Longley St shows a John Nowley Mosley at that address
EDIT Sorry mean to say this is the municipal electors register and he's still there in the 1884-1885 register, by 1886 he's not at that address
and there is a birth reg for a John Nowley Mosley in Q3 1859, Durham, with a MMN name of Nowley
which appears to be a match for the John K[nowley]?, son of William on the 1881 census?
Boo
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I suspect this address of 56 Longley Street, may have been the home of their son.
This snip from the Newcastle Courant 20 June 1884 seems to confirm that theory
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Just beat me to it Jennifer :-)
and this is the transcript of her burial on FS
https://www.familysearch.org/search/ark:/61903/1:1:CX3N-NST2
Neville if you can get to the Newcastle library, they have these burials registers on microfilm, or if the family in NZ can get to an LDS Family History centre they will be able to get the burial registers there (they are digitised but only viewable at a FHC as TWAS wont give permission for them to be available on the web)
Boo
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Tickettyboo and JenB,
Thank you very much for this information. There is no co-incidence here at all but I still cannot understand why she was living with him when she was still married to his father. My friend in NZ has confirmed that John (K)Nowley Mosley was his grandfather and he is the one to emigrate to NZ. He had worked in the family joinery business but was also a coal miner and followed on his trade by moving around the mines. Even the family are not sure whether the correct spelling of his name is with a K or an N!
We are also grateful for the press cutting and report on the death of his other daughter, Sarah Isabella. I am so glad that Malcolm was burning the midnight oil in NZ and I was able to get an answer!
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As it was in between census years its difficult to know if she and the children were living with her son and William was still in Dipton.
Unless there is any evidence to the contrary its entirely possible that they were all in Newcastle.
Maybe their son had plenty of work in Newcastle and things were slow in Dipton, so perhaps they all went to stay with him and then moved back again after Elizabeth and the children died - or when their son emigrated.
I have a family who moved from a street in Gateshead to another in Newcastle in between census years. Three years later they moved back to the same house in Gateshead. Luckily they had children born on both sides of the Tyne during those years, if not for their birth and baptism records I wouldn't have known about the 'temporary emigration' to t'other side of the Tyne :-)
Boo
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Boo,
I found William in the 1881 Census with his whole family in Dipton. In the 1891 Census he was living in the nearby town of Stanley. In between I have found absolutely nothing about him - so anything might have happened but the sawmill survived and it was a thriving business long after William's death. So I doubt whether he would have left it unattended. But the people are the most important aspect and the help that you and JenB have given me has been amazing. I am delighted and when I have put it all together and sent it to him my friend in NZ will be very happy!
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I still cannot understand why she was living with him when she was still married to his father.
I don't think you should read too much into this.
All we actually know is that they were there when they died, one at the end of March and one at the beginning of June 1884. They might have gone on a visit and been taken ill. They might have gone for family support because William was too busy with his business.
The fact that they both died at the same address in Newcastle within about six weeks of each other doesn't mean that they were living there permanently.
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JenB,
That is very true and with the third victim (a second daughter - the one in your press cutting) dying there, they might just have been too ill to travel home. Also, if they were infectious, the carters might have refused to take them home. Another thought is that carters would not carry the coffins so there may have been no choice about taking them home for burial. They may also have been there to spend some final time with their son and brother knowing they might never see him again after he left for New Zealand. I will definitely take your advice about not reading too much into it.
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https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/240893396/florence-m-mosley?createdMemorial=Yes
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/240893486/elizabeth-mosley?createdMemorial=Yes
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/240893554/sarah-isabella-mosley?createdMemorial=Yes
I have been on a day shift today so have been able to call into the library (Newcastle local studies) en route home. I have found the burials on microfilm and have added these to Find A Grave.
It appears that they are all in the same grave Section G Plot 217 Unconsecrated. The burials appear to have cost a bit more than most others on the pages so I wouldn't be surprised if a memorial might exist for them. It might be worth putting a photo request in if you think your friends would be interested Elliven.
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Thanks to RTL providing the grave ref, I was able to look at the graves registers
There was a prior burial ( doesn't seem to be related)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS1L-33SY-7?i=217&cat=828351
and then four later burials, again not apparently related
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS1L-33SY-7?i=217&cat=828351
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS1L-3S13-T?cat=828351
Neither of these entries indicate that the grave was purchased, so its unlikely there is a headstone.
Boo
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Thanks for chasing this up further Boo. Likely no memorial then but they are in same plot.
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Thank you River Tyne Lass and Tickettyboo
I really appreciate both your efforts.
The prior burial was at St Philip's nearby at the time of their deaths in 1884. But I am astounded that they were reburied 34 years after their deaths but also in unconsecrated ground leaving the big mystery of why and who paid for it? The other burials tickettyboo mentioned were mostly family members. I don't understand why they would be buried in unconsecrated ground - but I am not a religious person.
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Correction: 48 years after their deaths
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Thank you River Tyne Lass and Tickettyboo
I really appreciate both your efforts.
The prior burial was at St Philip's nearby at the time of their deaths in 1884. But I am astounded that they were reburied 34 years after their deaths but also in unconsecrated ground leaving the big mystery of why and who paid for it? The other burials tickettyboo mentioned were mostly family members. I don't understand why they would be buried in unconsecrated ground - but I am not a religious person.
APOLOGIES, I appear to have posted the same link twice, so sorry to have confused you
First image
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS1L-33SY-7?i=217&cat=828351
Second image
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS1L-3S13-T?i=781&cat=828351
When I said there was a prior burial on the first image, that was another person, a William Gillson who was buried in 1867. He doesn't appear to be related
Then the three Mosley burials - all correctly recorded as being in 1884.
The writing in the far left column records later burials with their dates - and they are recorded with names and dates on the second image, again very likely to be unrelated to the Mosleys..
It was/is important to keep a record for every grave and its occupants - as well as the actual chronlogical register of burials
The Mosleys (and all the other occupants of that same grave) were only ever buried once - within a couple of days of their death.
Boo
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I think being buried in unconsecrated ground would just have meant that they weren't 'Church of England' and may have been a different denomination such as Roman Catholic or Methodist, for example.
I am not sure if records of who paid for burials still exist but it might be worth emailing the bereavement department to ask.
It is interesting to note that the Mosley burials were several shillings more expensive than many others on the pages at that time.
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I don't understand why they would be buried in unconsecrated ground - but I am not a religious person.
Neville, as regards a burial in 'unconsecrated' ground, as RTL has said, this simply means that they weren't buried in the Church of England section of the cemetery.
It was usual for the large cemeteries which began to be built in the 1850's/60's to be divided into 'Consecrated' and 'Unconsecrated' sections.
The ‘Consecrated’ section would be consecrated in its entirety by a Bishop when the cemetery was opened. This is usually the 'Church of England' section of the cemetery.
The 'Unconsecrated' section was for use by other Christian denominations and by other faiths and thus each plot would be consecrated as necessary by the relevant faith at the time of burial.
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To River Tyne Lass and Tickettyboo
Thank you both, I now have a much clearer picture of the way things happened. My original information, to give you one example, was that Elizabeth's burial place was St John's , Westgate and Elswick - removed from St Philip's parish. Then I saw her listed as Elswick Cemetery with a 1934 burial date. I thought she had been buried in three places until I read your explanation!
To JenB
Thank you for explaining the principal of consecration in these larger cemeteries. So, as I believe they were Methodists, I presume the Minister conducting the funerals consecrated the graves at the time of the funerals so although it was technically unconsecrated ground until the funeral service ended - the completed graves were consecrated. That makes me feel better.
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The phrase 'removed from St Philips parish' is a bit confusing but it simply means that she died in St Philips parish and that her body was moved from there for burial at Elswick.
She was definitely only buried once :) (unlike some at Jesmond Cemetery whose bodies were exhumed and reburied elsewhere in the Cemetery in 1971 in order that the land could be used for a new dual carriageway - which was never built).
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Glad to read that you feel better about the burials Elliven. :)
Just as an aside, when I looked at this burial register yesterday I noticed that quite a few people who died in the workhouse during that year had 'Medical College' in the end remarks column. I presume this meant that they were sent to medical science before burial. All very noble and commendable if someone choses to do that but it sounds quite unethical to me, if someone ended up there simply as a consequence of destitution. :-\
At least the Mosleys were spared this having died at home and not at the Newcastle Workhouse.
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River Tyne Lass,
You are so right. William had sold his business and it continued to prosper - in fact it was still doing well when I moved here in 1972. So I think he would have a little nest egg to make his last years more comfortable. Certainly when his wife and daughters died he would have been able to support them financially. Considering now that what remains of the Workhouse at Lanchester has been converted to expensive housing, I saw it after it had been standing empty for a good few years and it was a depressing place. I hate to imagine what it must have been like for the inmates. William's cause of death was senile dementia and I am happy for him that he did not have to endure those conditions whilst he was still mentally alert. Regards Neville