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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: pandacub on Monday 20 June 22 17:29 BST (UK)
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I was visiting a family grave yesterday at a council owned cemetery which is kept well maintained. However to get into this cemetery you have to walk through an adjoining church graveyard.
The grass in this church graveyard has not been cut in over a year now. Some of the grass is waist high and there are weeds and brambles all over the place making it impossible to access many of the graves.
The vicar claims that it is now Church of England policy throughout the country to stop maintaining churchyards in order to save money and help protect the environment. The council say they have offered to maintain the churchyard at a subsidised rate but this proposal was rejected. As it is not their responsibility and as they are also short of funds there is nothing else they can do.
I was curious as to whether this really is a countrywide policy so I'd be interested to know if anyone else has come across this happening anywhere outside of Lincolnshire.
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I visited a Melksham Cemetery (Wiltshire) last week hoping to find some family graves. In one area the grass was was over waist height though I am unsure whether that particular area was the responsibility of the church or local council. Other areas were well maintained.
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Thanks, that's very useful to know.
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Very sad to see the state of the grass in some of the cemeteries where we are in the West Coast it's the council that's responsible .Needless to say not maintained very well and when they do cut the grass it's just left such a mess .We actually have a man now that cuts the grass on our family grave and makes a pathway making it easier to access
Rosie
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Yes it's very sad to see overgrown cemeteries and I feel sorry for people visiting graves that are like that.
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I agree it is sad to see certain overgrown cemeteries. How often have any of us offered our local church some time if it too is overgrown. I admit I have not.
John
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That's a good point. A lady I was talking to in the churchyard yesterday is forming a group of concerned relatives. If she gets enough people joining then perhaps some sort of gardening rota can be organised.
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Not policy at St Leonards, Mundford, Norfolk.
Regards
Chas
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Thanks for the reply Chas.
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Not policy at St Leonards, Mundford, Norfolk.
Regards
Chas
I know your local area really well. Approaching the local parish council to see if they can offer some guidance is always a good starting point, as per Methwold, who have been really pro active on this front.
John
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Up until about 10 years ago, we used to have a small flock of sheep grazing the churchyard at least once a year. It only stopped when the farmer was killed in an accident while on holiday.
Regards
Chas
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The Welsh Church I attend (and my garden backs on to the Churchyard) used to use goats but they kept escaping because visitors failed to close gates. This happened as a matter of course when the druggies/drinkers frequented the site. Since then it's been a matter of employing a company to strim the site which makes a very big hole in the Church's slim finances.
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My local churchyard, St George's Douglas, is maintained by Douglas Corporation.
They do a decent job.
One area is left untamed for pollinators, but that only has 2 mass graves. Cholera Pit from 1832, and the crew from a sailing ship (SS Minerva) in 1809.
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I am not sure that it is Church of England policy to "stop maintaining churchyards", but older parts may be left to grow as wildlife havens, and only cut later in the year. Newer sections are probably maintained more. I know little about graveyards attached to churches in towns, but most country churches have small congregations and maintenance is a major issue.
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I agree it is sad to see certain overgrown cemeteries. How often have any of us offered our local church some time if it too is overgrown. I admit I have not.
John
I recently looked at a facebook page for a village I used to live in. There was a post decrying the state of a churchyard ( it was an RC one) that the poster had visited. They lived in the village and were visiting the grave of a Grandparent.
The post was quite vociferous about the lack of care and attention to the churchyard.
Lots of replies saying others were also appalled at the condition of their loved ones graves.
They all, apparently, live in the same village.
For the life of me I can't work out why, if they are so distressed about the state of the resting place of their ancestors, they can't go along and tidy it up themselves. I do understand that not everyone is fit enough but surely some are?
Boo
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We have quite a big churchyard; a big area has no grave markers at all. That area we are deliberately allowing to grow as a wildlife haven. The area with headstones, mainly relatively modern (mid-19th contury onwards) we do keep mown. It costs a lot. The weekly collections, fundraising activities and regular donations are all very important to us in keeping the show on the road. We have to cover the cost of ministry - that is, the clergy and costs associated with services; the cost of mission - that is, the cost of bringing our message to others; and then the cost of premises - maintenance, where we always dread the next quinquennial report with its lists of things that must be done; insurance, electricity, fuel, and everything else, as well as keeping the churchyard presentable and safe. Like so many things there isn't a pot of gold: church members either need to give or to fundraise. We understand that we are here for people who are not members of our congregation, no matter who they are, but we are limited in how much we can give in time and money.
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The grass in this church graveyard has not been cut in over a year now. Some of the grass is waist high and there are weeds and brambles all over the place making it impossible to access many of the graves. The vicar claims that it is now Church of England policy throughout the country to stop maintaining churchyards in order to save money and help protect the environment.
I was an orienteer for about 50 years. Back in the 70s and 80s we could run about in north Welsh forests with mostly bramble and rough ground to worry about. After that it apparently became national policy not to clear under trees after brashing operations, and to let green waste decay naturally. As a result some forests we once used have become almost totally impenetrable.
Perhaps that 'green' policy is spreading ?
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I attended a funeral last week in Northumberland, the large churchyard was well maintained as was the attached cemetery. I don't think that the C of E have a nationwide policy of letting graveyards 'go wild' -- a decision made by the vicar / parish council perhaps?
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Thanks for all the replies, they were very interesting to read. I've joined up with some other concerned visitors to the cemetery and I'm becoming hopeful something might get sorted out. There aren't many people fit enough to tackle the enormous amount of gardening work required but everyone who can't physically help has promised to donate money so that professionals can be hired.
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Our local churchyard is mown rather savagely by the council in part, but some the rest is left wild on purpose - buried in that part is a former vicar, famous for his investigations into wild flowers and for his beautifully illustrated book on them. A team of voluntary local people work to keep the churchyard tidy, keeping paths weed-free and cutting back stuff that gets too leggy. Recently the church held a tea and cake event, at which a quiz sheets were offered, asking you to tick off all the wild flowers you spotted as you walked around the churchyard.
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Speaking as a churchwarden, if you are considering any sort of gardening/maintenance work in a churchyard, please make sure you consult with the church - vicar or churchwarden. They may have a deliberate re-wilding scheme or protecting a habitat/environment. There are also quite strict rules about what can and can't be done in a churchyard.
All too often, the cost of maintenance is beyond small parishes, and help with grass cutting etc would be very welcome. My church is very fortunate in that we receive help from the Parish Council but I know many that don't have that financial help.
RuthieB
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Thanks very much RuthieB. Yes, the vicar has been consulted and he is apparently asking permission from the Bishop.
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I am a member of a local church, the churchyard we try to keep tidy, not so many years ago I was mowing with a hover mower and went backwards over a grave stone curbing, didn't have time to even let go of the mower, I was taken off to hospital badly injured, I has 28 stitches and was lucky not to have lost my toes
Churchyards are kept tidy by members of the church, voluntarily, whatever we do we do it free of charge, in fact it is very difficult to get anyone to do it, congregations are generally of the older generation, not many youngsters come forward to offer in their spare time
We do have a group of men who do their best but it is soul destroying when a member of the public has a go because around their family grave stone it hasn't been mown, in my opinion, bring your own shears and whilst at it clear a couple either side or volunteer to help
LM
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Speaking as a churchwarden, if you are considering any sort of gardening/maintenance work in a churchyard, please make sure you consult with the church - vicar or churchwarden. They may have a deliberate re-wilding scheme or protecting a habitat/environment. There are also quite strict rules about what can and can't be done in a churchyard.
All too often, the cost of maintenance is beyond small parishes, and help with grass cutting etc would be very welcome. My church is very fortunate in that we receive help from the Parish Council but I know many that don't have that financial help.
RuthieB
Our Parish Council kindly helps too. The Parochial Church Council is ever so grateful - without that help we wouldn't be able to mow the churchyard. Both councils have to be careful as Parish Councils don't have powers to give money for religious purposes; the point being that the churchyard is a benefit to the civil parish as a whole.
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I suppose this is another symptom of the slowly declining interest in religious participation, plus the preference for cremation rather than burial, plus the focus mainly on the older generation who (as has been suggested) are less able to do active gardening.
Maybe most of the interested visitors are family historians (like us) who don't live locally ?
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Thanks for your reply Andrew, you've made some good points there.
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I have been to my local church this morning and group of volunteers. were cutting the grass, I know them so went to speak to them, as a lighthearted quip someone suggested getting a few sheep from the local farmer, apparently years ago they did do it, not such a bad idea.
LM
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Yes I've heard a few mentions of sheep and goats, sounds a good idea to me. We sometimes go on holiday to Cromer and goats are used there to keep the grass short on a hilly area near the beach.
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I have been to my local church this morning and group of volunteers. were cutting the grass, I know them so went to speak to them, as a lighthearted quip someone suggested getting a few sheep from the local farmer, apparently years ago they did do it, not such a bad idea.
LM
Last time I was at Cartmel, Cumbria (2019), we paid a visit to the Priory and they were still using sheep to keep the grass short. The sheep would normally be in the field next to the graveyard and when they were needed, the farmer would open the gap in the lower part of the dry stone wall and let them through. (image courtesy of Public Domain)
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I expect some of the visitors would complain about sheep as well.
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Last time I was at Cartmel, Cumbria (2019), we paid a visit to the Priory and they were still using sheep to keep the grass short. The sheep would normally be in the field next to the graveyard and when they were needed, the farmer would open the gap in the lower part of the dry stone wall and let them through. (image courtesy of Public Domain)
Holes in the lower part of drystone walls to allow sheep access are called cripple-holes in my part of Lancs.
Sheep would eat flowers on graves. Goats would eat bunches of flowers + wrappers.
I startled a couple of sheep in a town centre church in Ballyhaunis, Mayo. I don't know if they were meant to be there. Cows were in the nearby main street for market-day.
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Talk of sheep and goats, our local churchyard keeps both to keep the grass and bramble down.
The animals are allowed only about 1/3 of the available space, the other 2/3 being used for the current burial space and the victorian part burials.
[The fence keeping the animals safe is @5ft high and is substantial.]
Mind you some of the burials are ancient, like 13th century so minimal grass cutting taking place.
Brian
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Slightly off topic, our church needed work done around the exterior of the building to stop damp getting in around the base. A group of retired engineers from the village got together and worked out how to do this and carried out the excavations. In doing so they unearthed quite a lot of skeletons - people who had been buried as close to the church as possible without a grave and with no known names. A large new grave was dug and consecrated to our unknown parishioners and a local joiner made a fine cross to go above the grave. It was agreed that the skeletons had received a dignified burial.
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Oh to live in a village with a group of retired engineers! Lucky you!
It sounds like a fine and fitting reinterment and beautifully marked too. :)
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How coincidental - just found this post
See this thread
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=863577.0
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I have a feeling Churchyards are encouraged to be eco friendly till about may to allow insects and things to thrive
Having been to a meal today for a celebration I herd that the local priest gets numerous calls to clear the churchyard and people become quite irate, how dare they?, I have mentioned in the past that the churchyard is looked after by members of the congregation giving their time FREE and most are aged, pity some of the complainers don't give a hand from time tio time, it would make life so much easier, the complainers I might add don't go to church
LM
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Slightly off topic, our church needed work done around the exterior of the building to stop damp getting in around the base. A group of retired engineers from the village got together and worked out how to do this and carried out the excavations. In doing so they unearthed quite a lot of skeletons - people who had been buried as close to the church as possible without a grave and with no known names. A large new grave was dug and consecrated to our unknown parishioners and a local joiner made a fine cross to go above the grave. It was agreed that the skeletons had received a dignified burial.
You have me puzzled here, you say the "people who had been buried as close to the church as possible without a grave", obviously they had graves as they were buried, I take it you mean their graves were not recorded?
Many old churches did not record early burials in a book, the verger kept the records in his head and unfortunately when he died the records were lost. When I started visiting graveyards in the 1950s as a boy I was amazed these old verger could take us to the various graves, some were later burial recorded in the burial register but some were unrecorded burials. I still mourn the passing of those men who where living encyclopedias of the churchyard.
Cheers
Guy
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Our parish's burial register goes back to 1559. There are just short of 10,000 entries in our registers, and burials would have been taking place for many centuries before 1559. It's only in the 20th century that records were kept of where the graves are located; we have around 700 headstones, some of which were moved to the margins of the churchyard under a Faculty in the later 20th century. It's a fair guess that 15,000 are buried in our churchyard and we know the locations of only a few hundred.
While numbers will differ, I'm sure the general principles will apply to most rural parsh churchyards.
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I can only repeat what I was told by one of the retired engineers who discovered and reburied the old skeletons. He said that people in past times wanted to be buried as close to the church as possible. Although their deaths would have been recorded in old parish registers, no indication of their actual graves was found. We have a very good archivist in the local history society, but she was unable to find further information about the dead. Possibly they were paupers, do you think?
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I don’t know about that Gillg but I know my church 's register has a lot missing from years ago, perhaps they weren't so good at record keeping in days gone by, I always thought the nearer the church they were buried the person was of some note.
I would have thought paupers or not they would have been recorded.
LM
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Graham Simons, reply 37.
I made a similar comment in the other thread running on Totally off topic, reply 18, only I was slightly less polite!