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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Derbyshire => Topic started by: Greaves on Wednesday 29 June 22 15:02 BST (UK)

Title: Ann GETTLIFFE (née BRADBURY)
Post by: Greaves on Wednesday 29 June 22 15:02 BST (UK)
Robert GETTLIFFE (c1756-1820) and Ann BRADBURY (c1756-?) were married on 13 May 1777 at St Oswald in Ashbourne. Robert was a tailor.

It is believed that Robert was born in Ashbourne, though I have yet to find a baptism record. It is similarly believed that Ann was born in Leek, though once again no baptism record has been found.

Robert died in 1820 in Ashbourne, leaving behind a will leaving his estate to his wife and four surviving children. Following his death his widow posted a notice in the local paper stating that the business will continue.

Some years later there is a notice in the Derby Mercury of 18 Feb 1832 selling off a number of premises belonging to various members of the family - see attachment. I am wondering whether this is because Ann has died and the estate is being sold so that it can be shared as provided for in the will. I cannot, however, find a death or burial for Ann.

I would really like to find baptism records for both Robert and Ann. My biggest wish, however, is to find a death or burial for Ann.
Title: Re: Ann GETTLIFFE (née BRADBURY)
Post by: haliared on Wednesday 29 June 22 22:37 BST (UK)
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/206987150/ann-gettliffe
Title: Re: Ann GETTLIFFE (née BRADBURY)
Post by: haliared on Wednesday 29 June 22 22:39 BST (UK)
18 May 1819 is the burial date in the burial register, Ann GETTLIFFE, from Frost's Yard, age 53.
Title: Re: Ann GETTLIFFE (née BRADBURY)
Post by: Greaves on Thursday 30 June 22 10:42 BST (UK)
Many thanks for finding this. But I must admit I am confused.

Her husband Robert died in 1820, being buried at Willington on 05 Oct 1820 aged 64.

When he died, his wife Ann published a notice in the local paper (see attachment) saying basically it was business as usual. How could this be if she died in 1819?

Moreover, her reported age on the burial register is 53, which indicates she was born in 1765 or 1766. This means she would have only been 11 when she married Robert on 13 May 1777. The consensus on Ancestry - so far from certain - is that Ann was born in 1756 in Leek in Staffordshire.

This must surely be the wrong Ann Gettliffe. I would very much appreciate some help with this
Title: Re: Ann GETTLIFFE (née BRADBURY)
Post by: trish1120 on Thursday 30 June 22 11:13 BST (UK)
I agree not the right Ann who died 1819 before the death of Robert.

I presume you know Daug Sarah married Pedro Antonio TETOLDI ( A French Prisoner of War)
Brother George and his future Wife Henrietta were witnesses.
(although her mn has been likely mistranscribed on FreeREG)

I also noticed a Tree has Anne dying 1837 (that is a 5 yr old according to GRO)
Title: Re: Ann GETTLIFFE (née BRADBURY)
Post by: Greaves on Thursday 30 June 22 11:24 BST (UK)
Yes, I know about the fates of the other children. Ann’s death is the big mystery. Whilst her and Robert’s baptisms remain unfounded, I feel as if her death should be possible to find. I feel also that the announcement selling off properties I posted earlier might be indicative of her death. In Robert’s will, it is stipulated that after her death the estate should be shared out amongst the surviving children.

Also the 1832 advert seems to suggest that one at least of the properties is still in the possession of Ann. Does this mean she is still alive in 1832?

Perhaps she moved back to Leek, though she seems settled in the Ashbourne area. The search goes on.
Title: Re: Ann GETTLIFFE (née BRADBURY)
Post by: ShaunJ on Thursday 30 June 22 12:34 BST (UK)
The death duty ledger entries for Robert Gettliffe (Lichfield register 2 folio 544) might reveal the date when his estate was finally distributed to the surviving children. Viewable at the National Archives.
Title: Re: Ann GETTLIFFE (née BRADBURY)
Post by: Greaves on Thursday 30 June 22 12:36 BST (UK)
Good suggestion. Does this need a visit to NA? Or can it be done online?
Title: Re: Ann GETTLIFFE (née BRADBURY)
Post by: ShaunJ on Thursday 30 June 22 13:02 BST (UK)
It would mean a visit to TNA.

I did this some years ago - researching someone who had left his wife a life interest in his estate, and on her death it was to be distributed to any "lawfully begotten" children of his son, and if there were no such children the money was to go to the children of his brother in law. The ledger confirmed that the brother in law's children got the money. Which in turn confirmed that the son's children were all illegitimate.  I don't recall if the date was recorded but it probably was as the wife died 23 years after her husband.
Title: Re: Ann GETTLIFFE (née BRADBURY)
Post by: Greaves on Thursday 30 June 22 13:06 BST (UK)
Many thanks
Title: Re: Ann GETTLIFFE (née BRADBURY)
Post by: Tickettyboo on Thursday 30 June 22 13:14 BST (UK)
A 'possible' way to find out when she died is to get the details of Robert's estate from the Death Duty registers. I have a couple of these where property went to the wife until her re-marriage or death and then passed on the children, which showed the date the wife died. Can't guarantee that Robert's entry will give the date of Ann's death but its worth a shot if all else fails.

FindMyPast has the index to the registers, you need the year probate was granted, register no and folio.

If you have an LDS Family History Centre near you they have the  registers digitised, you can use their pcs to view these at the FHC for free (they are locked on the web)
this is the catalogue entry
https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/614554?availability=Family%20History%20Library

page through till you get to catalogue entries for 1821
Surnames E-G , vol2 , and the folio no from FindMyPast is 544
click the camera icon and go to folio 544.

Other than that the National Archives hold them and they can be ordered - though that involves a cost, I had one from them a year or so ago cost £8.50 to assess if the record was ok to copy, that took about a fortnight, then another £8.50  to order the copy and another couple of weeks before it arrived.

 Boo

Title: Re: Ann GETTLIFFE (née BRADBURY)
Post by: ShaunJ on Thursday 30 June 22 13:39 BST (UK)
Quote
A 'possible' way to find out when she died is to get the details of Robert's estate from the Death Duty registers

Already suggested! But you have added some useful info on how to view them.
Title: Re: Ann GETTLIFFE (née BRADBURY)
Post by: Tickettyboo on Thursday 30 June 22 13:44 BST (UK)
Quote
A 'possible' way to find out when she died is to get the details of Robert's estate from the Death Duty registers

Already suggested! But you have added some useful info on how to view them.

So I now see (but don't remember seeing the warning about more posts).
Still, perhaps the info about the FHC access will be helpful, not everyone is able to travel to the National Archives or has the budget for remote copy charges.

Boo
Title: Re: Ann GETTLIFFE (née BRADBURY)
Post by: Greaves on Thursday 30 June 22 13:44 BST (UK)
Thanks to both of you. It does look a possible way forward, which I will need to explore.

I'm still surprised that her death doesn't appear in the parish registers or local newspapers. She was after all a woman of some standing in the local community with not insignificant business interests.