RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Somerset => England => Somerset Lookup Requests => Topic started by: dgarratt on Friday 01 July 22 00:24 BST (UK)
-
Hi all! I'm looking for more info on my 3rd great grandpa George Garratt! The info I have is that he was born in Bristol, Somerset around 1830 and got married to Margaret Thomas in Wales. They then immigrated and settled in Baltimore Maryland! I'd love to know about his parents, siblings, etc.
Thank you!
-
Date wrong - trees on Ancestry show he was born 1830 Bristol, and died in Baltimore 1900.
No marriage in UK between a George Garratt (or Garrett) and a Margaret Thomas.
Annette
-
Double post
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=863582.msg7332384
-
3rd great grandpa George Garratt! The info I have is that he was born in Bristol, Somerset around 1900 and got married to Margaret Thomas in Wales. They then immigrated and settled in Baltimore Maryland!
Can you tell us where you got the info. you have as it's vague?
Have you worked back from yourself with documentation to clarify names, at least approx. dates & places?
Maybe post some previous generation, verified info. to help us work back.
Annie
-
Yes so here's the generational lineage:
Danielle Garratt (me, January 23rd 1996) --> George P Garratt 3rd (my dad, April 4th 1953) and Janice Larue Hock --> George P Garratt Jr (Grandpa, October 4th 1915) Virginia May Miller --> George P Garratt Sr (April 1st 1951) and Ruth C Leipold --> David Garratt (June 7th 1863) and Mary E Phillips--> George Garratt (1830) and Margaret Leipold (Llanelli, Carmarthenshire, Wales).
That's as far as I've gotten back... I believe they got married in Wales, but it's like George Garratt never existed past his Obituary Post... it said he was born in Bristol and just before he passed away at 70 he went back to meet a sister he hadn't seen in 50 years. I found that Margaret's parents could be Phillip Thomas and Margaret Thomas, but nothing before that...
I'm working on my tree in Ancestry.com so that's maybe where you guys are looking. I can also post the link to my tree on here as well!
my tree: https://www.ancestry.com/family-tree/tree/119156977/family?cfpid=430176912879
-
On the same page as them on the 1860 census are other Thomas’s from Wales. Have you looked at those families? (Jolly difficult in Wales, every one has the same few names!)
Are you just accepting the Ancestry hint that that particular Margaret is yours?
-
Yes, I looked over the hints and the paper cuttings from other people that have them in their family tree. I'm not able to pay to see everything in the hints, so I'm just using what I can see. In the 1870 US federal Census it said that there was a George Garratt married to Margaret Garratt with the same birthday... do you think it might be a different Margaret?
-
There will be many Margaret Thomas’s born in the period. I don’t think you can rely on that hint at all.
Things to consider
- given the fact we can see no likely marriage in England or Wales, that George and Margaret married in the US. Looking at that 1860 census there are a bunch of copper smelters all from Wales including lots of Thomases. So I would be thinking that Margaret was likely of one of those families.
- Also, in the 1860 census she says she is 31 and George 29, which widens the range for possible year of birth. Newspaper cutting for her death says in 69th year, which = b abt 1828 which fits with the 1860.
- in 1860 their eldest child is 5, born Maryland.
- Are there documents regarding the arrival of those Welsh Copper smelters in Maryland records?
Also..how do you know Margaret’s surname is Thomas? Marriage of one of the children?
-
Might be something useful in this document
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01rnu/
-
Have you considered George Garret... bapt at Easton -in- Gordano on 3 Oct 1830- son of George Garret and Mary Carpenter-.they resided at Pill, which is just down the River Avon from Bristol. George Snr was a carpenter.
djm297
-
Here is that George
Parents George Garret and Mary Stacey married 1829 Easton in Gordano
1841 956/43/41
George 10 yrs with Mary and several children - presumably his mother and siblings.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MQ1V-Q2D
George snr was a Ship’s Carpenter so maybe away.
1851 1946 /655/40
George Garratt wid. 55 yrs Ship’s Carpenter
Mary A Garratt 10 yrs
1861 1711 /78/32
George Garrett 68 yrs with daughter Ellen Hunt and family
-
Thank you so much for your help! I'll look into this post!
-
Yes, I looked over the hints and the paper cuttings from other people that have them in their family tree. I'm not able to pay to see everything in the hints, so I'm just using what I can see. In the 1870 US federal Census it said that there was a George Garratt married to Margaret Garratt with the same birthday... do you think it might be a different Margaret?
In 1870 Baltimore, George is 40 and Margaret 38 - this is the only census they seem to have been found in and this states that both of them were born in Wales!
Annette
-
In 1870 Baltimore, George is 40 and Margaret 38 - this is the only census they seem to have been found in and this states that both of them were born in Wales!
Annette
1860…he born England, she born Wales
-
Danielle Garratt (me, January 23rd 1996) --> George P Garratt 3rd (my dad, April 4th 1953) and Janice Larue Hock --> George P Garratt Jr (Grandpa, October 4th 1915) Virginia May Miller --> George P Garratt Sr (April 1st 1951) and Ruth C Leipold --> David Garratt (June 7th 1863) and Mary E Phillips--> George Garratt (1830) and Margaret Leipold (Llanelli, Carmarthenshire, Wales).
That's as far as I've gotten back....
my tree: https://www.ancestry.com/family-tree/tree/119156977/family?cfpid=430176912879
Hi Danielle,
My question was to find out what info. you have verified with dates/places & your info. tells very little.
It's not about 'as far as I've gotten back' it's about verifying the info. on the way back.
I had a look at your tree (only available to those with an ancestry sub)!...
You have wives added with their marital surnames rather than their maiden surnames.
Women should always be entered on family trees by birth/maiden surnames.
As an e.g. you will not find a birth/baptism for Ruth C Garratt (in your tree) unless Garratt was her birth surname, likewise you won't find a marriage for George P Garratt to Ruth C Garratt unless Garratt was her birth surname.
Ditto with George Garratt (Jnr) & Virginia May Garratt (in your tree) unless Garratt was the birth surname of Virginia?
Hope this helps?
Annie
-
Hi Annie!
Thanks, I've changed over all names. When I first started the tree a couple years ago, my dad had sent me info from a woman he had research everything for him so that's where I got dates from. Since I don't have an ancestry subscription, I'm going on very little as well. I was able to get some more info with marital names rater than maiden names so I think that's why I had their names like that. I'm very new to researching my family genealogy so I appreciate the help!
Danielle
-
it's like George Garratt never existed past his Obituary Post... it said he was born in Bristol and just before he passed away at 70 he went back to meet a sister he hadn't seen in 50 years.
The more precise the info. on your tree is, the better for connecting with others with equally precise info. which includes dates & places.
An e.g. is you have no date on your tree for the death of George in 1900.
Looking at the obituary & comparing with the other info. on your tree, Ann should be the wife of William G Griffith.
There's no mention of a/the wife of George in the obit which is odd?
Do you have births for the children with their mothers name/surname as it may be they weren't married?
Have you found George on a passenger list to England c1898?
Annie
-
Looking at the obituary & comparing with the other info. on your tree, Ann should be the wife of William G Griffith.
Annie
This may not be very useful but William Griffith was the witness to George’s Naturalization. I saw it earlier but any record is via Fold3 which is payable. I when I saw this post, I thought I had better mention it. :)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XGWZ-R52
-
Looking at the obituary & comparing with the other info. on your tree, Ann should be the wife of William G Griffith.
Annie
This may not be very useful but William Griffith was the witness to George’s Naturalization. I saw it earlier but any record is via Fold3 which is payable. I when I saw this post, I thought I had better mention it. :)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XGWZ-R52
That should be somewhere here for free
https://catalog.archives.gov/search?q=Naturalisation%20petitions%20Maryland
Publication Number:M1168
Publication Title:Indexes to Naturalization Petitions to the U.S. Circuit and District Courts for Maryland, 1797-1951
Publisher:NARA
Record Group:21
State:Maryland
Court:[BLANK]
Short Description:NARA M1168. Index cards for Naturalization Petitions filed in the U.S. Circuit and District Courts for Maryland, 1797-1951.
Roll:0005
Date Range:1797 - 1906
Name Range:Emerick, Andrew - Garrett, Joseph
Naturalization Year:1876
Immigrant:Garrett, George
Birth Year Or Age:[Blank]
Country of birth or allegiance:England
First Witness's name:William Griffith
Second Witness's name:[Blank]
-
Hi all! Thank you so much for the help! I added his naturalization, but was unable to find where Margaret and George got married so I'm thinking they didn't. I'm putting together little pieces at a time and found his grandparents! Doing my best to find his parents, but coming to a dead end.
-
How can you say who his grandparents are if you don’t know his parents?
Genealogy is a slow business, you have to take it step by step.
Early Records in US are difficult to come by. You have to keep poking and prodding. :)
-
Do you have births for the children with their mothers name/surname as it may be they weren't married?
Have you found George on a passenger list to England c1898?
How do you know the name of the mother is Margaret Thomas?
How can you say who his grandparents are if you don’t know his parents?
I wondered that too?
So far, no mention of paperwork to confirm anything apart from George’s Naturalization.
Annie
-
There was a reply earlier with his parents George Garratt (1791-1889) and Mary Ann Stacey (1779-1841) and then that George's parents John Garratt (1760-1844) and Elizabeth Allen (1770-1866).
-
Have you looked at the Baltimore newspapers to see if there is a report of his trip to see his sister? I thought there might have been one in the English papers but cannot see anything.
It is jolly annoying he isn’t coming up easily on shipping records for that trip.
Reply#10 is outlining the family of a George of right age at Easton in Gordano. I am sorry to be a pain, but you don’t know for sure that one is yours. He is just one well worth considering.
You could look at his siblings and see where they go. Is there a sister alive about 1898?
Death notices for any of them naming a brother in Baltimore.
I still don’t see how you, or the researcher your father employed, can tell Margaret’s surname was Thomas.
But perhaps that was also in Newspapers of the time. (Pre 1855) I don’t have a sub to the US ones at present.
-
In 1870 Baltimore, George is 40 and Margaret 38 - this is the only census they seem to have been found in and this states that both of them were born in Wales!
Annette
1860…he born England, she born Wales
Can you please give me the details - surname spelling etc. as I simply can't find the family on the 1860 Census?
Annette
-
Name: George Garret
Age: 29
Birth Year: abt 1831
Gender: Male
Race: White
Birth Place: England
Home in 1860: District 12, Baltimore, Maryland
Post Office: Baltimore
Dwelling Number: 346
Family Number: 342
Occupation: Copper Smelter
Plus Mary 31 b Wales. Sorry. Typo. Margaret!
George 5 b Maryland
Mary 3. Maryland
Elizabeth 11/12 Maryland
-
The spelling GARRATT is not what is on the census just posted by mckha489. GARRET
I thought the researcher said the wife's name was Margaret, not Mary. They are not really interchangeable forenames.
Sue
-
The spelling GARRATT is not what is on the census just posted by mckha489. GARRET
I thought the researcher said the wife's name was Margaret, not Mary. They are not really interchangeable forenames.
Sue
Oops. I have corrected it.
-
Ah. OK ;D
Sue
-
George junior in 1880
Says both parents were born in Wales.
(Indexed as Gorge Garrett b abt 1857. Res, Canton, Baltimore)
Can’t find senior and Margaret
-
Thanks for 1860 census details, mckha489.
I'm finding this somewhat difficult to follow at times, especially with regard to George's wife Margaret.
You've been asked twice already, Danielle, how you know his wife's maiden name was Thomas?
No marriage has been found, no birth/baptism entries for children to confirm her maiden name, and yet I see on your tree that not only have you come up with some parents for her, but also where precisely she was born in Wales? Where has this information come from?
I just can't get my head round this without some kind of proof - it makes no sense.
Annette
-
I do think the information that you are giving us dgarratt has come from the research carried out by the person commissioned by your father.
Is that correct ?
If so, there must be cited sources in that research document if it is still in your possession. Is it?
Sue
-
So I created this tree a long time ago, probably in 2018. I don't have the documents anymore but in the 1870's US Census there's a George Garratt and Margaret Garratt that are living together with children that I've confirmed by my dad that are in my family. There's also an Obituary for Margaret Thomas-Garratt on December 16, 1896 in the Baltimore Sun. That's what I was pulling from.
-
Ah, so we need someone with US newspaper access who might kindly find that obituary if you no longer have it.
If you have got it, would your mind typing it out word for word.
Sue
-
GARRATT on December 14th at no 103 Elliot
Street extended, MARGARET GARRATT, in the
69th year of her age. Beloved wife of George Garratt
Funeral on Thursday afternoon at two o’clock
From Canton Congregational Church
Sorry Sue, I forgot you don’t have ancestry access or I would have posted earlier. (It was on another tree)
No mention of THOMAS ;D
-
Gotcha! So I should start from scratch with Margaret! It's wild that there's no mention of them being married anywhere.
-
Thanks for that mckha.
It does not tell us much and it looks pretty clear their oldest child Elizabeth was born in US, so no way to develop the thinking from her birth.
If the dates for the man are correct, he was a young father.
Here is an entry in the Woods' Baltimore city directory (1870) which may be him.
GARRATT, George, Labourer, 8 Clinton.
Sue
-
Reply #25 - their oldest child was George b Maryland
George, father, would have been about 25 yrs so not too young a father.
-
Just in case…. re George b 1830, Easton in Gordano with a sister Ellen.
1851 1946/653/37
Ellen Garratt 12 yrs with Aunt Mary Stacey
1861 1711 /78/31
Ellen Hunt 23 yrs with husband George and father George Garrat
1871 2517/72/28
Husband now Thomas but looks to be the same person
Lodger George Garratt 75 yrs
Death 1878
George Garratt 90yrs
1901 2356/52/1
Ellen Hunt 64 yrs is still living in Pill
I don’t see George b 1830 after 1841 but he could be anywhere.
-
The oldest child was George, born August 1855 (according to 1900 census)
He was born Maryland.
So George senior arrived before then
Mary who married William GRIFFITHS had a son Thomas. Trees say he was Thomas GARRETT/GARRATT (newspaper notice of marriage has her GARRETT)
Anyway - When Thomas died his death notice says Thomas Jarrett Griffiths
so perhaps it used to be pronounced with a soft G which widens the search parameters somewhat.
Immigration possibilities
George GARRATT age 16 arrival NY 19 Oct 1844 per Hendrick Hudson
other family
Edward GARRATT 56 Shoemaker
Elizabeth 59
Harriet 21
George 16
Mahala 15
Timothy 13
1848 per Chancellor
Rich. GARRETT 36, Labourer
Sarah 35 Seamstress
George 15 Labourer
Thos. 14 Labourer
Wm. 8
Mary 2
Sarah infant
1837 per Bachelor
Alexr GARRET 30 labourer
Ann 28
George 8 these 3 were destined for Upper Canada