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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Durham => Topic started by: fiddlerslass on Thursday 07 July 22 12:51 BST (UK)
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Hi,
Thomas Lee is never with his wife and family on census day, so the last confirmed sighting is his wedding, 12 Sept 1896 at Eldon, near Shildon, to Annie Chapman, daughter of George Chapman. Thomas was a coal miner, son of James Lee, a miner, and birth would be about 1874.
1901, 1911 and 1921 census family are in Eldon living with George Chapman. Annie Lee says married for the first 2 and widowed on the 1921. I have the birth certificate of child Walter b. 1909 Eldon, registration by his mother, and Thomas Lee is given as father.
There is a Thomas Lee, single and born 1879 in the 1901 census of Eldon, but why would he be masquerading as a younger single man in the same village?The neighbours should have known who he was!
I have also eliminated the Thomas born Broom.
any suggestions gratefully received.
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I note on the 1901 census that Annie born 1871 Essex is living with her father, a widower; the following are noted as Grandchildren born Eldon.
GRO registrations below.
CHAPMAN, ALFRED -
GRO Reference: 1893 S Quarter in AUCKLAND Volume 10A Page 203
LEE, ERNEST CHAPMAN
GRO Reference: 1896 D Quarter in AUCKLAND Volume 10A Page 199
Also Hilda Lee age 1 but no registration?
In addition in 1911.
LEE, WILFRED CHAPMAN
GRO Reference: 1904 M Quarter in AUCKLAND Volume 10A Page 214
LEE, WALTER CHAPMAN
GRO Reference: 1909 J Quarter in AUCKLAND Volume 10A Page 247
The record states that Annie had 6 children and one had died, below I guess.
LEE, LILIAN CHAPMAN
GRO Reference: 1907 M Quarter in AUCKLAND Volume 10A Page 266
Looking at the census returns it looks likely that the Chapman family moved to Eldon between
1871 & 1881.
How do you know that Thomas was born about 1874?
Have you found Thomas on the 1881/1891 census returns, with his parents?
Colin
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I have the information on the children, thanks. Hilda was reg Dec 1899 Auckland.
The year of birth for Thomas comes from the marriage certificate.
The problem is, there are many Thomas's in the census, and he could have come from anywhere. There are about 30 just looking in England in 1881 with birth 1874 +- 2 & father James, and of course he may not have been with parents in the census, or he could have made up a father, or lied about his age.
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Like yourself I have had no success finding Thomas on any census records, I followed through a few possibilities but they all went awry.
Do you have any of the children's birth registrations?
If so do they mention anything about Thomas?
Colin
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Hi Colin,
I've got the certificate for the 1909 birth, just says Thomas Lee coal miner, same as at marriage. I thought, if there was any funny business, one of the later births may shed some light, but apparently not!
I knew Ernest Lee when he was an old man, but of course back then , 1970's, I was a child and not interested in family history. Ernest's son was my mum's first cousin. He didn't know anything about the Lee's, except he knew there was some connection to Chapman!
I've tried looking for a death between 1911 and 1921, as his wife says she was a widow by then, and nothing obviously stands out for the Auckland area either.
Although it's not my direct ancestry, it's just bugging me that he is so elusive. I suppose also Thomas may have been a middle name that he preferred to use.
I don't know if he was the Thomas Lee who , along with Henry Lee, got in a spot of bother diddling the miner's money at Etherley George Pit in around1907!!!
May have to put him on the back burner for now. I've got another elusive chap to track down :(
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Expect you've tried different spellings of Lee like Lea or Leigh :-\
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yes, tried all these :). also looked at Matthew Lee living in the same village in 1901 in case related, but a dead end too. Also tried looking for a James Lee, reputed father in 1871, but too many of them to narrow it down, and he may not have been in DUR then anyway.Think I will give up.
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Who are the witnesses when they married 1896?
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Witnesses were both from the bride's family, father and a sibling, so not helpful.
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Who is the witness on the 1909 birth certificate?
Where is baby born?
Your Thomas LEE, with father John, has sons Alfred, Ernest, Wilfred, Walter.
Why is there no Thomas or John, a son named for father or paternal grandfather?
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Thanks for your interest.
The child Walter Lee was registered by his mother, and was born in Eldon.
Thomas's father according to marriage certificate was James, not John.
Agreed, none of the children are named for Thomas or James. perhaps the Lee family were estranged or James is made up.Who knows! I do think more variety in naming was occurring in the early 20th century, in general, and people were not so tied into the typical northern naming pattern of first son after paternal grandfather, second son after father etc.
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Thank you for this information.
I am thinking of a naming convention rather than a pattern.
Naming patterns were not followed so rigidly with passing of time, and decrease in number of children. You need a large family to demonstrate a pattern.
Naming conventions lasted well into the 20th century, and you would expect to see a man with four sons to give his name to one of them. Just an observation.
I am not suggesting that you buy them or this purpose, but do you have a birth certificate for any child which has father as the informant?.
Do you see evidence of father Thomas LEE....... ever ........after the marriage?.
What address do you see on the marriage certificate?
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Hi,
I don't have any of the other birth certs, and probably am not going to, as it's not a direct ancestor, more a matter of curiosity! Marriage certificate just gives Eldon for abode of both.
From the census, they seemed to stay put at Halls Row Eldon with Annie Lee's father George Chapman, and this is given as Walter Lee's birthplace in 1909.
No sighting of Thomas after wedding with any certainty. I thought perhaps he joined the army and that's why he's not around. But he was still supposedly a miner in 1909.