RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => Topic started by: ChrisAllonby on Saturday 09 July 22 17:53 BST (UK)
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Hello, I'm struggling to see how contact can be made with an Ancestry family tree owner. I'm using the Ancestry Library edition in a public library. The online advice I can find suggests clicking on the tree owner at the top of the display, but the tree in question doesn't have this option. Could anyone suggest how I might proceed? The tree in question is the Swain Family Tree, which includes Matthew James Kennedy, my person of interest. Thanks.
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Have you got the tree up in either tree display or listing?
Also can you click on the tree owner's profile?
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You can only initiate contact using the anc messaging system if you're logged in and have a paid sub, library edition doesn't count :(
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Have you got the tree up in either tree display or listing?
Also can you click on the tree owner's profile?
I had the display in both modes, but the tree owner's profile wasn't visible.
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You can only initiate contact using the anc messaging system if you're logged in and have a paid sub, library edition doesn't count :(
Ah, okay, thanks for confirming what I suspected. I'll probably post a message about the Swain connection here and maybe elsewhere, to see if it elicits a response.
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Without a paid up sub the only other option is that you can send them an invitation to view your tree and include a message. This assumes you can find their username.
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The tree in question is the Swain Family Tree, which includes Matthew James Kennedy, my person of interest.
What is his birth year & where, to narrow down the list thrown up by name only?
Annie
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A few of options:-
1 - subscribe to Ancestry for a month
2 - if you have not had your DNA tested then you can buy a kit and three months membership of Ancestry
3 - if you already have taken a DNA test then you can upload your DNA data to the comparison websites where you may find that the owner of the tree has also uploaded there data, it is a longshot but could be worth it.
4 - join Facebook and seek out the Groups related to Family History in the Country concerned and also in the local region and post there. I found great links to my Cheshire Ancestry via a Fb Group.
5 - seek out the single name family groups on Tribal Pages
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Thanks for the replies so far. I don't (yet) have a family tree on Ancestry, but it's clearly an option to build one and then try and make contact. Regarding the DNA suggestion - I think I'll pass on that one ;D but Facebook might be a possibility. I don't do Facebook myself, but my wife does, so I'll set her to work on it.
Regarding the person in question: Matthew James Kennedy, birth registered Q4 1889, Chepstow. In the Swain family tree he's shown as having died in 1935, but I think this may well be wrong, hence the need to contact the tree owner. I suspect the death record they've identified relates to Matthew JOHN Kennedy, born Q2 1887, Cardiff and died Q1 1935 Abergavenny. At least I hope this is the case. I'm looking for someone who effectively 'ceased to exist' in official records between 1901 and 1911, and if the death record is as I think, then Matthew James Kennedy is probably who I'm looking for.
This enquiry relates to my earlier posts going back to 2017 concerning a certain James Matthew Devauden. I think Devauden might be Kennedy. Why? Because Devauden 'came into being' between 1901 and 1911, despite being born in 1889, and Kennedy 'disappeared' during the same period. Then there's the Christian names, but I think the clincher is that Kennedy's elder sister - elder by just 12 months (1891 census) - is noted as being born in Tidenham (village in Gloucesterchire - Chepstow registration district), and that's where Devauden was born according to the 1921 census.
Does anyone have any thoughts on the above, especially concerning the death records of M J Kennedy? Many thanks, Chris.
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looking at gro it is definately matthew john Kennedy d 1935
KENNEDY, MATTHEW JOHN 47
GRO Reference: 1935 M Quarter in ABERGAVENNY Volume 11A Page 65
Had a quick look at the Swain tree the owner hasnt been on there recently unless they have never logged out then it doesnt show
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looking at gro it is definately matthew john Kennedy d 1935
KENNEDY, MATTHEW JOHN 47
GRO Reference: 1935 M Quarter in ABERGAVENNY Volume 11A Page 65
Had a quick look at the Swain tree the owner hasnt been on there recently unless they have never logged out then it doesnt show
Thanks. I agree with your assessment. The ages given are a better match than for Matthew James.
I think I might do as suggested above, and join Ancestry for one month and try and make contact that way. However, it all depends on the birth certificate for Matthew James Kennedy, which I've now ordered. If the date of birth is given as 27th September 1889 then my assumptions are probably correct. Otherwise I'm back to square one. I'll open the letter from the GRO with bated breath!
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Have you found Matthew James in 1939 which will give his DoB?
For the benefit of others who may be following/helping, not much between the 2 births...
KENNEDY, MATTHEW JAMES STEPHENS
GRO Reference: 1889 D Quarter in CHEPSTOW Volume 11A Page 9
KENNEDY, MATTHEW JOHN POWELL
GRO Reference: 1887 J Quarter in CARDIFF Volume 11A Page 357
I'm intrigued, do you have a theory as to why he changed his surname, especially to such an uncommon name?
Could he have married & taken his wife's surname?
I hadn't taken everything in, in one go ::)...was he possibly adopted?
Annie
Add...I had a look at the tree you mentioned, it appears the owner probably doesn't have the DC for the 1935 death as it's referenced as 'Mar 1935' with no specific date.
A few entries have specific dates, usually from National Probate Calendar, FAG & Soldiers died in the Great War
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You possibly already have this info...
Death entry...
Dec 1974
DEVAUDEN JAMES MATTHEW (b 27 Sep 1891) BARROW/F Vol 1 Pg 120
Mentioned in National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1995
James Matthew Devauden 1975 Denham-Eastwood
1911 entry...
James Devanden 22
St John, Hereford, England
Birth Year (Est) 1889
Birthplace Leamington, Warwickshire
Status Single
Occupation NO OCCUPATION
Nationality ENGLISH
Boarder
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X7JB-DB7
Annie
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Have you found Matthew James in 1939 which will give his DoB?
For the benefit of others who may be following/helping, not much between the 2 births...
KENNEDY, MATTHEW JAMES STEPHENS
GRO Reference: 1889 D Quarter in CHEPSTOW Volume 11A Page 9
KENNEDY, MATTHEW JOHN POWELL
GRO Reference: 1887 J Quarter in CARDIFF Volume 11A Page 357
I'm intrigued, do you have a theory as to why he changed his surname, especially to such an uncommon name?
Could he have married & taken his wife's surname?
I hadn't taken everything in, in one go ::)...was he possibly adopted?
Annie
Add...I had a look at the tree you mentioned, it appears the owner probably doesn't have the DC for the 1935 death as it's referenced as 'Mar 1935' with no specific date.
A few entries have specific dates, usually from National Probate Calendar, FAG & Soldiers died in the Great War
Hi Annie,
It does look as though Matthew John is the (incorrect) birth identified in Swain. I have the 1939 record for James Devauden and his DoB is given as 27 Sep 1889. This ties in with 1911 and 1921. His DC gives the year as 1891, but I assume this is incorrect - I hope so.
As to why he changed his surname is anyone's guess. One thing is certain - he did change it. There are no other Devaudens anywhere in the world, save for David K Devauden and his wife, who took that as their new surname when they married in the Welsh village of that name. Devauden never married, as far as I know. Adoption? You mean post 1901 - an interesting possibility.
In 1911 and 1921 Devauden is associated with a man called Charles Albrecht, 34 years his senior. They both moved to Hull some time after 1921. Albrecht died in Hull in 1932 and Devauden was still there in 1939. It's a mystery, without a doubt.
Regards,
Chris.
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You possibly already have this info...
Yes
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=776439.9
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You possibly already have this info...
Yes
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=776439.9
Yes, that thread from 2017 documents the issue in much greater detail. I must admit I'd given up on my research on Devauden, but when the 1921 census became available it shed new light on the matter. As mentioned above, his PoB is given as Tidenham, Glos (not Leamington, per the earlier census) and I think the entry is in his own hand.
Incidentally, it's been a while since I ordered a certificate from the GRO. When I ordered Kennedy's birth cert. there was an option to get a pdf version for £7. I opted for the full certificate for £11. However, it occurred to me that these full certs can be difficult to scan, usually needing two halves, and perhaps the pdf would have been a better bet. Any thoughts?
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Hi
I had forgotten about Mr Devauden and his friend Charles Albrecht.
Well done for finding Matthew in 1921 and getting the new place of birth (very naughty for him to say Leamington in 1911!)
Your theory looks very promising indeed.
I'm afraid I don't really know how they put the certs together, I was under the impression the pdfs are two bits joined together. But it doesn't really matter, you are going to get the info you require anyway.
Do let us know how you get on.
John
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I have quite a few full English certs. & they look to have been scanned as a whole although it never crossed my mind about the size etc. nor have I scrutinised them but this was long before Pdf was an option.
Annie
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all the full certs I have sent for come as A4 size and PDF will easily print out A4
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A few days ago I received the birth certificate of Matthew Kennedy (as mentioned above by sandiep, it was A4, so easy to scan - maybe I should have just ordered the pdf) and I'm pleased to report that the date of birth was given as 27th September 1889, which is what I'd assumed, and hoped for. 'Devauden' gives this date on the 1939 register, and 27th September is also given on his death certificate, though the year is 1891. All records apart from the death cert (currently on order from GRO) point to 1889. So undoubtedly Devauden and Kennedy are one and the same person.
Interestingly, the place of birth on the birth certificate is given as 12 Bridge Street, Chepstow, and not Tiddenham, Glos as written by 'Devauden' in 1921. Tiddenham parish is just a few hundred yards across the River Wye from Chepstow. Indeed, Bridge Street, Chepstow leads across the river. Maybe 'Devauden' thought he was born in Tiddenham, given that his older - by 12 months - sibling has Tiddenham, then Tutshill listed in 1891 and 1901. Then again, perhaps he thought being an Englishman conferred some advantage over a Welshman? I suspect the birth certificate is correct and the 1921 census is wrong. Why would the mother when registering the birth give an incorrect location? Any thoughts on this would be most welcome, and thank-you for all the responses so far.
I think I now have enough information to commence writing an account of the enigmatic 'Mr Devauden'.
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Without going through all the info. given, from memory, you have a 'source' of info. for the birth of Matthew Kennedy with 1st hand info. given by his mother...
Why would any parent whether mother/father have/feel a need to lie about where their child was born?
You don't give any info. on his fathers' details, occ. etc.
The little difference in info. on the census' isn't too much out especially as the places named seem to have bordered 2 areas.
Where was he said to be born on the 1901 census, who gave the info?
Quite often men have short memories/can't be bothered with the analytics & write what seems easiest at the time.
Who gave the info. in 1911?
I don't think men in general care too much about specifics i.e. near is 'near enough' ;D
Annie
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Quite often men have short memories/can't be bothered with the analytics & write what seems easiest at the time.
Who gave the info. in 1911?
I don't think men in general care too much about specifics i.e. near is 'near enough' ;D
Annie
Is this tongue in cheek ??
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Quite often men have short memories/can't be bothered with the analytics & write what seems easiest at the time.
Who gave the info. in 1911?
I don't think men in general care too much about specifics i.e. near is 'near enough' ;D
Annie
Well tell that to the men who built civilisation. I hope it was a tongue in cheek comment, otherwise a bit of a misandrist remark.
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Quite often men have short memories/can't be bothered with the analytics & write what seems easiest at the time.
Who gave the info. in 1911?
I don't think men in general care too much about specifics i.e. near is 'near enough' ;D
Annie
Is this tongue in cheek ??
Tongue in cheek or not, there is some truth in what you say ;) and I'm a man. At the risk of being cancelled, men and women are very different. Men are better at some things than women, and vice versa. The two sexes have a different psychological make-up, and they are generally interested in different things - 'generally' being the operative word here. Anyway, enough of this; to the matter in hand:
Kennedy's birth cert gives 12 Bridge Street, Chepstow as his place of birth. The informant was his mother, who registered the birth 42 days after it took place. The father's occupation looks like 'Striker, Iron Foundry'. Incidentally, the address of PoB is given as '..... Chepstow, WSD, Mon'. What might the 'WSD' be?
1891: PoB - Chepstow. However, PoB for elder sibling (older by just 12 months) is given as Tidenham
1901: PoB - Chepstow. Sibling - Tutshill (geographically almost the same as Tidenham)
1911: Now known as 'Devauden', PoB given as Leamington, I think in his own hand on the census return; undoubtedly a misrepresentation
1921: Devauden gives his PoB in his own hand as Tidenham, Glos
Death cert - currently on order
I also believe Chepstow to be his actual place of birth. Yes, why would the mother lie about this? The only thing I can think of could be that there was some sort of disadvantage to be born outside a particular parish, but I can't think what. Alternatively, maybe 'Devauden' didn't wish to be considered a Welshman, but this seems unlikely.
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maybe WSD
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanitary_district#England_and_Wales
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Tongue in cheek or not, there is some truth in what you say ;) and I'm a man. At the risk of being cancelled, men and women are very different. Men are better at some things than women, and vice versa. The two sexes have a different psychological make-up, and they are generally interested in different things
I'm not letting this go - give me some proof - i.e scientific research papers, etc.
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Tongue in cheek or not, there is some truth in what you say ;) and I'm a man. At the risk of being cancelled, men and women are very different. Men are better at some things than women, and vice versa. The two sexes have a different psychological make-up, and they are generally interested in different things
I'm not letting this go - give me some proof - i.e scientific research papers, etc.
I speak from life experience. I'm 67 years old, and believe me, what I say is correct. Some examples: men are better than women at anything that involves strength and stamina. Women are better than men at caring and educating. Women are more organised, and better organisers, than men, but men are better at strategy and seeing the bigger picture. I could go on, but I won't, save to say these observations are generalisations. Of course some men and some women are contrary to the above, but most aren't. Proof and research papers aren't needed here. We can all see it, but perhaps some cannot accept it? :)
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And I have 10 years more experience than you. Not that age is anything to do with it!.
Also, I've manage men for a large part of my career, i have the feeling that you seem to have not noticed the more recent discussions on gender, etc. - blinkered.
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I've worked with women, had women working for me, and worked for women. They were all great at their jobs.
I have noticed the recent identity politics 'discussions' you refer to. Most of it is virtue-signalling tripe.
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How sad.
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You should never judge someone based on their age, as you were that age once, and younger to middle aged people will one day be that much older age hopefully. I find it a bit arrogant to judge someone due to their age. Perhaps this thread is going off topic now but I get a bit sick of people turning this into a "my age vs your age" thing, and using someones age as a stick to beat them with. It is not a competition.
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maybe WSD
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanitary_district#England_and_Wales
Yes, looks like that could be it. Thanks.
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I have noticed the recent identity politics 'discussions' you refer to. Most of it is virtue-signalling tripe.
Too true, and it has sadly become quite anti men as well. It is a biological fact men usually have more physical strength than women. Facts do not care about people's feelings I am afraid.