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Research in Other Countries => Other Countries => Topic started by: haney on Monday 21 November 22 20:49 GMT (UK)

Title: Emil Laurits LARSEN Norway
Post by: haney on Monday 21 November 22 20:49 GMT (UK)
Hi Everyone
     I am trying to find out a bit more on the above who was married in Victoria Australia in 1880 to Ruth M. GOSDEN.

 From the marriage certificate the parents of Emil are LARS LARSEN and ELIZABETH JANSEN. Emil gives his birth place as Bergen, Norway. He was an engineer

 Looking at a map Vest-Agder and Bergen are not really close but of course he may not of known his actual birth/baptismal place! 

Emil gave his age as 24 on his marriage and one birth/baptism has been found for:- Larsen, Laurits Emil born 21 Jan 1854, Nes, Vest-Agder, Norway to Lars LARSEN and Elisabeth JANSEN.

Emils father Lars was a "Customs House Officer".  Lars and Elizabeth were married in Nes, Vest-Agder, Norway 30 October 1849.  Her name spelt Ann Elisabet JANSEN age 25, father JACOB.

Lars was 35, father ARIAN.

I am still trying to find records of EMIL coming to Australia.  Maybe will take a while.

He died in 1895 in Sydney Harbour, drowned in an accident when the "Gem" sunk no death certificate unfortunately.   

Would there be anyway to find out more on the family in NORWAY.  Siblings, census anything like that please.  Kind regards and many thanks Dianna


Title: Re: EMIL LAURITS LARSEN NORWAY
Post by: jamcat95 on Tuesday 22 November 22 13:45 GMT (UK)
Hi
I have taken a look at this family but haven't found that much on Emil Laurits. He may well have been a seaman stating his Seaman's Mission in Bergen. If he was a seaman there may not be a passenger list for him.

Ian

Title: Re: EMIL LAURITS LARSEN NORWAY
Post by: haney on Tuesday 22 November 22 20:04 GMT (UK)
Hi Ian Thanks very much for your reply.  From records found in Victoria yesterday it appears that Emil was a Merchant Mariner/Mariner/Engineer from the Rate books in Melbourne from 1886. 

So that makes sense his connection to the "Gem" ship/barque which he was most probably an Engineer.

I may check in the Bergen area to see if anything comes up there.

I found on family search yesterday the 1865 (Norway) Census, not that I can really understand all of it but still helpful.

 https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:DXWN-WQZM

Census 1865 - Nygaden in Flekkefjord
He is with his mother - His father is working in Sokndal as a toldrorskarl/toldroerskarl
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/census/person/pf01038176001802

Many thanks kind regards Dianna

Title: Re: EMIL LAURITS LARSEN NORWAY
Post by: jamcat95 on Tuesday 22 November 22 20:13 GMT (UK)
I had found those records and his father and brother in Sokndal. If I remember correctly his brother was a seaman. I am at work atm so I can't look it up for now.

Ian

Title: Re: EMIL LAURITS LARSEN NORWAY
Post by: jamcat95 on Wednesday 23 November 22 00:12 GMT (UK)
I don't know if you have these Census:

1875 - Lars Larsen and son - Sokndal:
https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/52238/160 - Adolph is a seaman.

1885 - Lars Larsen and foster child - Sokndal:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/census/person/pf01053294000521

1891 - Lars Larsen and foster child - next page - Sokndal:
https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/52919/350

1891 - Elisabeth Jansen and family - page before and pages after - Flekkefjord:
https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/52910/4042

1900 - Lars Larsen - Sokndal:
https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/37256/360


Ian



Title: Re: EMIL LAURITS LARSEN NORWAY
Post by: jamcat95 on Wednesday 23 November 22 09:34 GMT (UK)
In the 1875 Census Laurits is said to be in England. He is a seaman:
https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/52213/387 - at bottom of page.


Ian
Title: Re: EMIL LAURITS LARSEN NORWAY
Post by: jamcat95 on Wednesday 23 November 22 09:46 GMT (UK)
1885 - Elisabeth Larsen and son - Flekkefjord:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/census/person/pf01053287001674

1900 - Elisabeth Larsen and son - Flekkefjord:
https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/37219/1017

1910 - Elisabeth Larsen and son - Flekkefjord:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/census/person/pf01036578001676


Ian

Title: Re: EMIL LAURITS LARSEN NORWAY
Post by: jamcat95 on Wednesday 23 November 22 10:02 GMT (UK)
Lars Larsen's probate 1904:
https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/62649/232 - bottom right

Laurits is mentioned but not his whereabouts.


Ian

Title: Re: EMIL LAURITS LARSEN NORWAY
Post by: haney on Wednesday 23 November 22 18:50 GMT (UK)
Hi Ian this is amazing what you have found for me!  Very much appreciated.  Wish I could read Norwegian!

I have never seen any of these documents.  Now I maybe able to track Laurits from England, maybe he came here from there!  Looks like the family didn't know he was deceased! Sad, no communication to family from Australia!

1891 - Elisabeth Jansen and family - page before and pages after - Flekkefjord:
https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/52910/4042

Just a question re this document, why would Elisabeth be a JANSEN (with family) if she was a LARSEN! at that stage?  Curious.

I'm so happy to receive all of these documents and I will try and get them translated if possible but I have a strong timeline now to follow up on. 

Lars Larsen certainly lived a long life!  Thanks so much.  Kind regards Dianna

Title: Re: EMIL LAURITS LARSEN NORWAY
Post by: jamcat95 on Wednesday 23 November 22 19:51 GMT (UK)
Just a question re this document, why would Elisabeth be a JANSEN (with family) if she was a LARSEN! at that stage?  Curious.

Cheers Dianna.
The man who is the head of the household is a Janssen so I believe the minister just wrote the same surname.

Ian

Title: Re: EMIL LAURITS LARSEN NORWAY
Post by: jamcat95 on Wednesday 23 November 22 20:00 GMT (UK)
I can help you out with the Norwegian although the probate is stretching it a bit. It's not the translation as such but the deciphering of the text. The probate is also difficult Norwegian too, but I get the jist of it. Swedish is my second language.

Ian
Title: Re: EMIL LAURITS LARSEN NORWAY
Post by: haney on Wednesday 23 November 22 20:15 GMT (UK)
HI Ian
     Thanks very much for that!  Is your background Norwegian/Swedish.  Are you actually located there.  I don't want you to go to any trouble with the translation! Don't want to stretch the friendship so to speak.

      You have explained that Laurits (Emil) was in England in 1875! So I assume he was back and forth being a Sailor/Mariner! As he was on the Norwegian census.  Anyway just the jist of what is happening is good.  Many thanks for your time.  Regards Dianna
Title: Re: EMIL LAURITS LARSEN NORWAY
Post by: jamcat95 on Wednesday 23 November 22 20:17 GMT (UK)
I'm English and live in Sweden and no problem with any translations required, just ask away and I'll see what I can do.

Ian

Title: Re: EMIL LAURITS LARSEN NORWAY
Post by: haney on Wednesday 23 November 22 20:35 GMT (UK)

https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/62649/232

With the probate record maybe just the mention of the children: I know you said Laurits is mentioned but he died in 1895, Sydney Harbour (drowned).  I would just like a clue of the context of which he is mentioned please.

https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/52213/387
With the 1875 Census are there any words here that you can make out!  LOL You will do better than me!
Title: Re: EMIL LAURITS LARSEN NORWAY
Post by: jamcat95 on Wednesday 23 November 22 20:47 GMT (UK)
The 3 sons are recorded as not being present when the probate was written.



Title: Re: EMIL LAURITS LARSEN NORWAY
Post by: jamcat95 on Wednesday 23 November 22 20:53 GMT (UK)
In the census it states that, what I can make out, Laurits is a seaman, son of Lars Larsen, age not recorded, sailing from England.


Title: Re: EMIL LAURITS LARSEN NORWAY
Post by: haney on Wednesday 23 November 22 21:07 GMT (UK)
AHHHH!  I see, thank you for that!  It just say's that they (the three sons were not present) Well nothing specific re Laurits being deceased.  It seems Laurits wife Ruth in Sydney may not have know how to get in touch with the family in Norway peraps.

That's great!  Well at least I know where Laurits was in 1875, maybe I can follow up on his voyages from there.  Many thanks Ian.  As there is no death certificate for him in Australia it makes it slightly more difficult but still I seem to be on the right track.  Kind regards Dianna
Title: Re: EMIL LAURITS LARSEN NORWAY
Post by: curtainhooks on Wednesday 23 November 22 21:27 GMT (UK)
Hello, I'm not sure if this is Emil, or if you already have it but there's a marriage in Rygge, Østfold, Norway (July 1st 1883):
Husband: Emil Laurits Larsen
Born: 10 Feb 1854  in Høidal
Marital Status: Single
Father: Lars Ingebregtsen

Wife: Kristiane Mathilde Augustsdatter
Birth: Mar 30 1860
Marital Status: Single
Father: August Andersen
Title: Re: EMIL LAURITS LARSEN NORWAY
Post by: curtainhooks on Wednesday 23 November 22 21:32 GMT (UK)
If that marriage is correct:
Baptism for Emil Laurits LARSEN
Born: 10th Feb 1854
Baptism: 13th April 1854 in Hurdal, Akershus, Norge
Father: Lars ENGEBRESTEN
Mother: Karine GULLISKD
residence: Garsjonje
Title: Re: EMIL LAURITS LARSEN NORWAY
Post by: haney on Thursday 24 November 22 01:30 GMT (UK)
Hi curtainhooks thanks for your reply.  The only marriage I have for EMIL Laurits LARSEN is to Ruth Marie GOSDEN 15TH OF January 1880 in Sandridge, Victoria Australia.

He states he was a 24 year old engineer Bachelor Born in Norway, Bargen.  The name is actually "LAWSON" on this marriage certificate.

Parents of Emil are Lars LAWSON (LARSEN) Custom House Officer. and mother is Elizabeth JANSEN.

Therefore, if this is correct the birth and baptism date that has been found for him seems to be

From the rate books etc in Victoria he is just EMIL LAWSON.  :- He is listed as a Merchant Mariner/Mariner and Engineer. 

LARSEN, LAURITS Emil, born 21 Jane 1854, baptised 5 Feb 1854, Parents Lars LARSEN and Elisabet JANSEN.  Baptism place: Nes, Vest-Agder, Norway.

Who would have thought that there could be TWO Emil Laurits LARSENS, very strange. 

When Emil died in 1895 his widow Ruth moved back to Victoria and married a William STUART, she used the name LARSEN when she married, so that, perhaps was the accepted, correct spelling of his surname.

Thank you for your input.  Very much appreciated.  Kind regards Dianna
Title: Re: EMIL LAURITS LARSEN NORWAY
Post by: haney on Thursday 24 November 22 01:33 GMT (UK)
Sorry my last post was a bit all over the place.  LOL. 

Parents of Emil are Lars LAWSON (LARSEN) Custom House Officer and mother is Elizabeth JANSEN. (From his marriage certificate)

Therefore, if this is correct the birth and baptism date that has been found for him seems to be:-

LARSEN, LAURITS Emil, born 21 Jane 1854, baptised 5 Feb 1854, Parents Lars LARSEN and Elisabet JANSEN.  Baptism place: Nes, Vest-Agder, Norway
Title: Re: EMIL LAURITS LARSEN NORWAY
Post by: curtainhooks on Thursday 24 November 22 13:24 GMT (UK)
Ah, I see
I thought Emil Laurits Larsen might have been a rare name so could've been your one and both 1854, but I guess it could be common in Norway  :)
Sorry I was no help, hope you find some more information out!
Title: Re: Emil Laurits LARSEN Norway
Post by: jamcat95 on Thursday 24 November 22 20:22 GMT (UK)
Hi
I have dug up a seaman's record for Laurits. It states that he sailed from Norway to Quebec to Hartlepool on 21 Oct 1871. Then to London on 1 Jan 1873. He then jumped ship in London.

https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/42428/43

Ian

Title: Re: Emil Laurits LARSEN Norway
Post by: haney on Friday 25 November 22 02:20 GMT (UK)
Hi Ian
    Wow that is a great record.  Thanks for finding it!  I found something on ancestry that "maybe" him.  I will have to find it again! Something like Emil LARSEN age 19 b about 1855 Norway able seaman joined ship 13 June 1873 in Greenock? Ship left 19 Jan 1874 LONDON on the Clarovine.

Hmm I wonder is Greenock supposed to be Greenwich?????

I will have to backtrack and find it now.

With the 1875 Census you found I was having fun trying to translate some of the words.  Sometimes the translater I was using didn't work too well. 

His Livsstilling = Life Position (aka Occupation) was as you said MATROS = Sailor.  Family listed under Fravaerende = ABSENT.  Then it states the families "Presumed Place of Residence".

A lot of fun doing that, time consuming though to find a few words.  Okay will carry on and see if I can join the dots.  Many thanks Dianna
Title: Re: Emil Laurits LARSEN Norway
Post by: jamcat95 on Friday 25 November 22 08:37 GMT (UK)
Cheers Dianne,
Greenock is in Scotland.

Ian

Title: Re: Emil Laurits LARSEN Norway
Post by: jamcat95 on Friday 25 November 22 09:00 GMT (UK)
Laurits confirmation record:
https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/931/5811/57 - nr 5


Ian

Title: Re: Emil Laurits LARSEN Norway
Post by: jamcat95 on Friday 25 November 22 09:03 GMT (UK)
Some more seaman records, but much of the same:

https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/42344/151
https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/42342/44
https://urn.digitalarkivet.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-ru20090319750148.jpg

Ian