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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: brigidmac on Thursday 24 November 22 13:47 GMT (UK)
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William DICKSON age 4 is with James 41 + Sarah BATTERSBY 55 as son
In Parr 1851
John 21
Joseph19
& hamlet 13 EDEN.are listed as step sons
James John + Joseph are coal miners
William is listed after Joseph EDEN
Sarah nee Taylor was previously married to John EDEN .
in 1961 Joseph EDDEN 29 is still with James & Sarah BATTERSBY
As is William EDDEN aged 14 both listed as sons
William DIXON above age married Mary Ann ASPINAL 20 in 1870
Father's name James BATTERSBY. Miner
I can't find any birth or baptism for William DICKSON /DIXON
His own children's names are consistently spelt DIXON baptisms are C of E
Any suggestions where else to look ?
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Census after marriage he is recorded as born 1849 Parr Lancashire
Children James William & Martha emigrated to Utah
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Hi,
My inclination is that the registration district would have been Prescot and there is a William Dixon on Free BND for March Qtr 1847 Vol 20 Page 847 which when checked on GRO web site suggests an absence of a mother's maiden name.
Could this be your man - possibly worth buying the certificate?
Alan
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Hi,
Should have checked the spelling -
It is Free BMD and Page No is 849
Sorry about that
Alan
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Thanks Al
That sounds possible. I.ll look for baptisms
There are alternative spellings for Dickson Dixon
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According to 1861 - 1911 census William Dixon was born Wigan Lancashire
Rest of family listed as b.Parr lancashire
I've seen Wigan C of E baptisms all saints
There is one william in 1847 born to William and Sarah Dixon
Another born Nov 1845 to single mother Ellen
There are probably too many possibilities in an unspecified time period
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Ruled out the William + Sarah couple ..their son is with them on subsequent censuses
Also ruled out Henry Dixon and Margaret Walton as parents
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How about
EDDEN, WILLIAM
mmn -
Q4 1847 PRESCOT Volume 20 Page 756
Maybe his father was a Mr Dixon and he used his name for a while, although his parents weren't married
There's at least one single Ed(d)en daughter in late 1847 who could be the mother
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That's most likely circumstance
especially if he was a grandson of Sarah BATTERSBY ( Formerly EDEN ) .
They might have passed her off as married
So it was important that he retained Dickson surname
James Battersby would treat him as a son as he'd brought him up since age of 4
One of Sarah's daughters married as a minor 1845 the other
married in April 1847
Which could rule them both out.
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Equally likely to be son of an unmarried miss Dickson and one of the older EDEN boys .
Or a distant relative or neighbour
I found a few baptisms where father is named but child is marked as illegitimate
I tried to follow the trail of William b 1847
Illegitimate to James Naylor blacksmith and Martha EDEN widow.
John Naylor could have been a married man
In 1841 There is a blacksmith aged 55 with Ann 35 ( daughter or 2nd wife )then james 20
No professions are listed for any of the other NAYLORs
I've not come across a Martha marrying any of the relevant EDEN.s yet
That one interested me because there are several DNA matches to the NAYLOR surname
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Hi,
Looking at the birth of William Eden in 1847 the son of the widow Martha and James Naylor it seems to be registered with the GRO with a mother's maiden name of Twist.
Seemingly this Martha was married to a Peter Eden in 1832 and he died in 1842 age 32 - so looks like a different family.
Your John Eden was married on 17 May 1813 to Sarah Taylor at Prescot St Mary's and she then married James Battersby in 1850. Her father was Hamlet Taylor so explaining her sons name Hamlet age 13 in the 1851 census.
The 1851 census was taken the night of 30 March 1851 - if the age of William Dixon is accurate at that time, he was born before 30 March 1847 - so possibly leading to the March Qtr birth previously mentioned instead of one later in that year.
Food for thought?
Alan
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Thanks Alan
I did have the Hamlet connection which helped identify Sarah TAYLOR
I've come across the Twist surname before too so will keep that as a floating branch for now
children of widows usually took her married surname . Regardless of father.
Summary
In 1851 William Dickson is age 4
1861 age 14 as William EDDEN
1870 marriage above age William DIXON father James Battersby
To Mary Ann ASPINAL
1871 William + Mary Ann DIXON both age 22
1881 Wm DIXON age 32 wife 31
1891 DIXON 44 wife 42
1901 DIXON 52 wife 50
1911 DIXON 64 married
( boarding with William 69 & Alice Jackson 68 in Ince )
wife Mary Ann 60 in Leigh with 2 daughters
Married 41 years 8 children all living
d.1934 in Leigh age 88 * that may not be correct death there is a USA newspaper obit for an 88 year old William Dixon in columbia USA
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I wonder if his children's names would give any clues to who is parents were (if he knew) .
Sarah Taylor's eldest son was James eden b 1814 .if he had a child with Dixon he was not free to marry
William Dixon + Mary Ann's children
Sarah A
Mary
Martha
Emily
Elizabeth
Thomas
James
Maud
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I have messaged someone who is distant DNA match suggested on thru lines thru James Battersby and has Ellen Dixon as mother so looks like ref in reply 2 could be correct
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Contact from a ggson of William Dixon
Paid a professional genealogist to research and was given parents as James Battersby and Emily Dixon
I don't know how to access these records
1. Certificate Somerset House 2,4,5,8, Certificate Gen. Reg. Office, London 3. Temple work printout gmf# 001-3285-925 SN00004 4. gmf# 000-9641-457 5. gmf# 000-9642-763 6,7 Death cert. Utah State James Battersby was William Dixon's Father Emily Dixon Ref 8320830 22 S/N00067-2 00120 Mary Dixon Ref 8320830 22 S/N00068-4 00120
Would that be the same ref that you've found ?
Emily Dixon could have been a widow * correction I think this is Williams daughter so James Battersby grandaughter
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Hi,
You may have to ask your contact for more information.
How did they reach the conclusion that James Battersby and Emily Dixon where his parents? James Battersby was born c1810 so it is possible he could have had a child in 1847 before marrying Sarah in 1850.
These references seem to be USA orientated and maybe they rely on information provided by the family? I can't see an Emily Dixon in or around the Parr area in the 1840/50 period.
I think you can only move forward after seeing this potential birth certificate (even if it is to discount any other potential theory). Instead of using national records you could order the certificate from the Lancashire BMD site (www,lancashirebmd.org.uk) where the local reference is SH/15/75 - birth registered at the St Helens sub district at a cost of £11.00.
Alan
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I think the refs are from death certificate of William DIXON s daughters Emily and Mary but why would they name a grandmother
* Apologies I was confused by statements in the USA refs
The match DID say genealogist had found mother named as Ellen ( not Emily )
Will order that birth certificate.
Btw I think I had wrong death for William there is an 88 year old dying in Utah who I will check out
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I'm looking at baptisms first
There is a Wigan baptism 15 Feb 1847
Son of William Dixon collier of hallgate and corrected ELLEN not Sarah
This couple married in 1839 # Ellen maiden name was Heaton
They lived at Club Row with baby Martha in 1841
In 1851 William Dixon had moved to Bloomsbury Middlesex with Martha aged 10 wife is named as * Ellen ( not Sarah )
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Hi,
You are looking for a baptism of William - potential child of James Battersby and Ellen Dixon (not Sarah). Reply 6 indicated you had ruled out William and Sarah as candidates.
Regarding William Dixon and wife Ellen -
In 1841 Martha was with her parents William Dixon and Ellen, aged 8 months at Club Row (which is the location of her parents when they married in 1839, William shown as 30 and a Coal Miner. Ellen aged 20
By 1851 they had moved to St George Bloomsbury Middlesex William age 43 Ellen age 35 Martha 10. No sign of other children.
By 1861 William had died and Ellen 45, Martha 20 and new daughter Elizabeth Jane age 7 were back in Wigan with Ellen's brother Robert Heaton age 54.
Could it be that they moved prior to 1851 because Ellen had a child William with James Battersby prior to him marrying Sarah Eden (nee Taylor)?
The birth certificate may answer this question but the baptism of William, son of William and Sarah seems the wrong family
Alan
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I've ordered the only one that father is not named as suggested in reply 3
I used GRO because pdf version is only £7
Don't need the paper certificate especially if it's not the correct one
I thought the William Dixon b 1809 with baby Martha was with wife Sarah in 1841 and wife Ellen in 1851
Is it 2 different people ?
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Hi,
I think so as William Dixon married Ellen Heaton in 1839
Alan
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I'd better check & correct my Ellen+ Sarah records in previous posts
I think your theory about the couple moving to avoid scandal is very plausible
I 2as hoping that William Dixon would have a baptism which might give extra clues
Just have to wait for birth certificate now .
Thanks so much Al
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Pdf of birth has arrived
So William was born St Helens Prescott
22 dec 1847
I cannot read the address Sutton ...?
Birth registered 5th Jan by Ralph KNOWLES the occupier of same address another mystery ?
Mother : Ellen Dixon so who exactly was she did she die after the birth ?
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Hi,
Interesting birth certificate.
I think the place is Sutton Moss, Sutton, St Helens - there is a Sutton Moss Road showing on old maps.
The Knowle(s) family appear to also be Coal Miners so most probably friends of hers or of the Dixon family.
Ellen Dixon (nee Heaton) was alive in 1861 and can be seen on 1871 and 1881 censuses with her daughter Elizabeth Jane Dixon and grandson William H Barton - I think she died 1882 Wigan age 67
Alan
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Thanks I've just found reference to Sutton moss
Doesn't this birth certificate show that Ellen was single ..so not Ellen Heaton ?
Surely if she was married or widowed it would also give her maiden name
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Hi.
I can't find any other Ellen Dixon in the area at the time of William Dixon's birth.
As Ralph Knowles registered this birth, presumably, he would not want it thought that he was registering a birth for a married woman with a different surname?
Unless you can find another Ellen, this looks the best option to me
Alan
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Thanks again Alan
I found a few different Ralph KNOWLES in Lancashire in 1841 & 1851 but none at an address like Sutton MOSS
My Lancashire geography is not very good .
Looked for deaths for an Ellen DIXON too didn't find any either .
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Without knowing Ellen's birth year or birthplace it's very hard to be conclusive
I think the choice of name for her son could be significant . It wasn't after the birth father but it could well have been after her own father . But I don't know if Liverpool or Manchester are unlikely birth places
I can see a reason she could want to name the child after her husband if she wanted him to be accepted but we know that by age 4 at least he was living with birth father James Battersby
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Hi,
Just discovered on Ancestry a death of William Dixon from Sutton buried 28 January 1847 age 5 weeks on the Prescot Parish Registers - this appears to tie in with a birth 22 December 1846 (from birth cert)
Looks like it's back to square one.
Alan
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Oh no !
I've looked at trees which have Eleanor/Ellen
& Elizabeth as the mother but no proof !
And 1941 census with Ellen Dixons age 14 - 27 as female servant . Silk weaver . Scholar
Daughter of coal miner .
May never find the answer to this one .
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According to www.lan-opc.org.uk the baby was buried at St Mary now St Helens in St Helens and they state the distance from Sutton was 3.35miles. The parish of Prescot was very large.
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Hi,
One of the things "bugging me" here relates to James Battersby (the father of William Dixon) and I have struggled to find him prior to 1851 census. His marriage in 1850 shows father as Thomas Battersby.
I have now found James in 1841 on Ancestry as James Bathersley age 30 married to Caroline age 25 with a daughter Martha age 10 months. James had married Caroline Fletcher 17 Jan 1836 - they were living in Parr, St Helens,
Caroline died 1841 age 28 (details found on Lans opc)
Still none the wiser on the elusive Ellen Dixon but it adds to the picture - James was a widower when he fathered William and when he married Sarah.
Alan
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Wow I'd never found a previous marriage for him
Ithat is the correct James
I'm going to investigate further . I wonder what happened to baby Martha. ?
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Caroline s maiden name was FLETCHER
Martha was baptised 24 Nov 1841
She died age 20 months buried 28 Jan 1842
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Hi,
Lancs opc shows the marriage on 17 Jan 1836 - James Battersby a Collier of Parr and Caroline Fletcher of Parr a spinster. His marriage to Sarah describes him as a Collier and widower.
Maybe we are starting to make progress?
Also, it is only a guess but there is also an Ellen Dixion who was born 11 March 1819, (baptised on 11 April) to parents Robert (a Collier) and Mary Living in Parr at the time (on Lancs opc).
She was one of numerous children and in 1841 the family seem to be in Leigh with 7 children - Ellen, Matthew, Elisabeth, John, Peter, Mary, and James.
Hope this is of interest?
Alan
As James Battersby was also as collier maybe he knew the family?
Alan
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I've looked through this parish baptisms for
1836 - 1842 no other baptisms for James + Caroline Battersby
There was one for a James ( collier)+ Sarah BATTERSBY but that would have been before their marriage
+ I found Richard to a John( collier ) + ellen DIXON so I may have to explore that couple too .which means lots of Ellen's to explore
James B was free to marry when William DIXON. Was born . So it might be worth looking for Ellen Dixon deaths burials in 1847 too .
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Whether I find Ellen or not there is also a DNA conundrum I'm trying to solve having followed William DICKSON s lines down to present day
There are DNA links thru 4 of his children
One of the highest links is to his ggdaughter which seems far too high .
The person they match is a 3xggchild of Elizabeth Battersby .James' sister and also has 151 thru lines to their sister Margaret Battersby
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Hi,
I know nothing at all about DNA links so cannot help - sorry.
Having looked through GRO registration again and re-examined mothers maiden names for each entry, there is nothing I can see in the area that corresponds with William Dixon's birth that we haven't looked at.
I am reluctantly drawn to the conclusion that the birth wasn't registered (although the numbers of this were I believe fairly small).
Alan
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I was going back to the theory that Ellen was actually the one married to William Dixon
Yes the birth might not have been registered or registered in a different parish
Who knows someone may come up with the answer years in the future .DNA is often the secret to such mysteries
Unfortunately the high match is deceased so I can't ask if they know the answer .
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Hi,
Regarding the family of Robert and Mary Dixon I mentioned earlier.
In 1851 the son James his wife Ellen and children are in Abram, Wigan, Lancs with his mother Mary (husband Robert having died) and some of his siblings but pointedly no sign of Ellen his sister.
Cannot find her in any 1851 census nor a suitable death or marriage for her, and as her presumed son was with his father James Battersby, I wondered if perhaps she had emigrated after the birth of William Dixon in 1847 - maybe to USA?
Just a thought?
Alan
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Hi,
Just to close the chapter on the William Dixon birth certificate for 1847.
1851 census, I have found Ralph Knowles (a Collier age 39 ) wife Elisabeth (age 29) and family in Sutton Nook, and living with them is a widow William Dixon age 62 his father-in-law. Next door is a Robert Dixon (age 40) wife Elisabeth and also a John Roberts and his wife Ellen (nee Dixon) who married in 1850. Their marriage certificate shows Ellen's father as William Dixon.
This I think is the Ellen who was the mother of the William we found.
Doesn't solve the problem but explains the birth we found etc.
Alan
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Thats very interesting
Im going to reinstate william.s mother as ELLEN * HEATON married to williamDixon collier with a hypothesis tag
to see if any dna thru lines come up
was that the one suggested by mabel in reply 7 , I like the idea that the couple moved away because people knew william dixon hadnt been birth father
I'll probably scroll though years of baptisms again just to see if they had a baptism for their daughter but not their son , Ive gone thru the same pages several times looking for different children hopefully i.ll have put a few in the shoeboxfacility .
Al you seem to be organised and structured thanks for bearing with me . cant carry it all in my head .
ive just been re reading an old thread about EDEN family and they had HEATON lodgers
I usually note lodgers on census description ..amazing how often they turn out to be relatives .
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Hi,
The one suggested by Mabel - William Edden is Prescot District Dec Qtr 1847 (Vol20 Page 756), with no mother's maiden name shown on GRO records. In the 1851 census you would have thought he would be aged 3 not 4 as on records - however without the certificate you can only guess - again!
There are other William Edden births in Prescot District in 1848 - mother's maiden name Sephton and in 1849 mother's maiden name Brown
The other Wiliam Eden in Prescot District Sept Qtr 1847 (Vol 20 Page 780) has a mother's maiden name of Twist
The couple William Dixon and Ellen (nee Heaton) who moved to London - we have not found any potential William birth as no birth is showing on the records - mother's maiden name would be Heaton. However, IF Ellen had a child its birth wasn't registered.
We had hoped the certificate bought Mar Qtr 1847 which also showed no mother's name was our baby William, but it is not - it is the one in Sutton)
For William Dixon there are no other registrations in Prescot district that match the age in 1851 census.
The one in Dec 1847 is possible I suppose - do you want to buy this certificate?
Overall, it very frustrating!!
Alan
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Argh whole message just disappeared.!
So I looked through 200+ baptisms after Martha DIXON
Found Mary O'Conor Frost DIXON b1842 d 1847 parents William DIXON coalminer of club row + wife Ellen
wonder who she was named after
I haven't found 1841 or 1861 census for them maybe it's mistranscribed on ancestry
But in 1851 William Ellen + Martha 10 were with a 3 year old visitor P.H McGarth B Bloomsbury Middlesex
Yet another tangent to explore
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I've started a separate thread about the Heaton connection as this is getting complicated and Ellen might not be the correct one
Heaton s
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=868216.msg7389077
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Hi,
Re William and Ellen (nee Heaton) see reply 18 giving addresses etc for 1841 to 1861.
Agree it is difficult to be sure of the right Ellen Dixon - could even be the daughter of Robert and Mary I mentioned earlier if Ellen was single and not married.
Alan
PS The Mary O'Connor Frost Dixon death is registered in Manchester age 0 in Sept 1842 (birth registered in Wigan District)
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I found the 1861 census eventually but ancestry is not giving me the 1841 even when I put in address as Club Row
I like to see the originals and look at neighbours.
I .LL give it another go
# Found by looking for Martha instead of her parents
Robert Heaton weaver separated from the family by // but probably same house on club row
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Hi,
A very long shot - pursuing the William and Ellen who moved to Bloomsbury area of London sometime between 1841 and 1851 - is it possible that Ellen's son William Dixon may have been born there?
There is a birth of a William Dixon in the Parish of St James Westminster without a mothers maiden name - District St James, Sept Qtr 1847, Vol 1 Page 100.
The areas look to be about a mile apart - grabbing at straws a bit but...?
Alan
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Hi,
I am just going to throw this in as a last throw of the dice - on ancestry there is a burial of an Ellen Dixon (of Wigan) - in the parish of Winwick, on 12 April 1846 age 27.
This would correlate to a birth circa 1819 - one Ellen this could be is Robert/Mary's daughter mentioned in reply 34.
Perhaps she died giving birth to William Dixon? The dates would fit with his age in the 1851 census.
Pure and simple guesswork but have nothing else to add.
Alan