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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Angus (Forfarshire) => Topic started by: CaptainChaos on Wednesday 07 September 05 08:30 BST (UK)
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Hi,
Can anyone comment on the accuracy of records downloaded from Scotlands People? I'm aware that they are only as good as the information given by the people at the time, however there are some possible inconsitencies that I need some help with.
I'm looking into the origins of an ancestor of mine (John Ford) who would have been born somewhere around 1826 in Scotland.
The only record I have of his birth year/place was that it was noted on his daughters birth registry (downloaded from Scotlands People), and that at the time of her birth on the 9th August 1855, he was 29 years old and had been born in Benholm, Kincardineshire.
A search of the LDS website shows that a John Ford was born to James Ford and Elizabeth Davidson in Benholm on 6th October 1827 (which on 9/8/1855 would have made him 28). However, Scots tradition usually held that children were named for their forebears by incorporating their surnames into their childrens names.
What's got me confused is that the John Ford I'm interested in had a son called William Falconer Ford - the LDS site shows that a John Ford was born to John Ford and Elizabeth Falconer in St Cyrus (8 miles away from Benholm) on 28th November 1825, which would have made this person 29 on 9/8/55.
So, in terms of age (and possible naming links), the second looks likely (although he's 8 miles away from his named birthplace), whereas the first John Ford is in the right place but not the right age - any thoughts, please??
Thanks in advance!!
Rob
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Hi Rob
I would say Scotland's People is as accurate as you could hope to get, as the records are direct from source, often you are able to view the original entries.
If anything, it is LDS which is more prone to error. WHich is not to say, incorrect information is in Scotlands People, but I would say it would mostly be because incorrect information was given as opposed to incorrectly transcribed.
Yes, Scots very often included surnames of their parents in the names of their own children. And not only that, they adhered very often to the traditional naming patterns for the first names of their children - 1st son after father's father etc etc.
John FORD & Ann MARNIE married June 1848, first son on LDS is John in apr 1851 - I wonder if there was an earlier son conveniently named James who is not on LDS...... :P
The James FORD/Elizabeth FALCONER marriage is not the only FORD/FALCONER marriage on LDS for Kincardine - there is also:
David FORD & Ann FALCONER in St Cyrus, having children in the 1820's also - poss. 2 brothers amrried 2 sisters.
David FORD & Elizabeth FALCONER in St Cyrus having 1 child in 1840
I have also come across middle surnames of children being the married surname of a sibling.
Also, John FORD/Ann MARNIE also had children with middle name "Brown" and "Mitchell" as well as "Falconer", and "Fielding" (which you know is after John's wife Ann Feilding MARNIE)
You also have one other clue:
The John FORD you mention as born 6 Oct 1827 to John FORD & ELizabeth DAVIDSON was actually named John Liddell FORD on LDS.
There is this on FREECEN (John Liddell had a brother James born 1837, so I'm sure this is them). What I am unsure of is the name of the Head of the house - is it really DAVIDSON 0r is it FORD and he has been transcribed by his wife's maiden name? Are these parents & children or Grandparents & grandchildren. The one clue perhaps is the location of Johnshaven - to file away if you find reference to your John in that place?
Piece: SCT1841/253 Place: Benholm-Kincardineshire Enumeration District: 7
Civil Parish: Benholm Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: -
Folio: 7 Page: 5
Address: Johnshaven
Surname First name(s) Sex Age Occupation Where Born
DAVIDSON James M 41 Linen Hand Loom Weaver Kincardineshire
DAVIDSON Betty F 45 Kincardineshire
FORD John M 13 Linen Hand Loom Weaver Kincardineshire
FORD James M 4 Kincardineshire
And maybe a silly question, but are you absolutely sure John FORD's age is 29 on his daughter Elizabeth's birth cert - could it be a hard to dechipher 27? WHich is the age John Liddell FORD, son of James FORD & ELizabeth DAVIDSON would have been in Aug 1855......
Thinking but not a lot of help, sorry :D
Cheers
Ambly
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Hi Ambly,
thanks for your help - unfortunately with the records downloaded from Scotland's People, they are very often hard to decipher due to various reasons (in this case when the birth record of John Ford and Ann Marnie's daughter was scanned, John's age was partially obscured by the facing page) but it's entirely possible that it could be 27 and 29, so I'll take another look!
Interestingly, although John and David were the only two living children at the time, on Elizabeth's birth record it mentions two un-named Ford children who had died previously (a boy and a girl) so it's possible that they died before John was born (i.e pre-1851), in which case being the eldest son before he died, he may well have been named James (although I've not yet been able to find any records of them).
Something else that has been suggested is that I should order John and Ann's marriage record from Scotlands People as well as the birth records the Ford/Davidson John and the Ford/Falconer John as they're all pre-1850 - hopefully this will provide a definitive answer!
Once again, thanks for all of your help
Kind Regards,
Rob
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Hi Rob
You might like to read this topic - re: a Rootschatter's (positive) experience when after complaining to ScotlandsPeople regarding unreadable images:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,77198.0.html
Also has some very informative data about the site.
Re: the FORDs yes I would definitely get the FORD / MARNIE marriage as it may give you the answers or at least some clues - Have you asked for a 51 or 61 lookup in Census? You might find other family members with he & Ann - ie a parent still living or a sibling.
BTW - Ann's sister Elizabeth who married DOIG (cf: the DOIG neices on Census 81 with Ann) - she is mentioned on this site if you haven't seen it:
http://www.doig.net/JOHN1778.html
Good luck!
Cheers
AMBLY
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This may not prove as simple as it sounds due to the relatively common name, but if you look for and find the death certificate of the person you know to be the correct John Ford (i.e. married to the correct person), then that will give you his parents' names, including his mother's maiden name if known by the person registering the death. (I've only found one so far where this was not known - someone else will probably now prove me wrong!)
Good luck
Nell
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Hi Nell/Ambly,
thanks very much to the both of you for your help!
Unfortunately John died at sea c1865 and, despite my best efforts so far on most websites (Scotlands people, etc) I've not yet been able to track down any death records for him.
Still, Genealogy research is never easy (which makes it that much more interesting!)
Thanks again!
Rob
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i had my gggreatgrandfather was born in cupar angus forfar scotland so what i did was send an e.mail and acopy of the certificate to the local town hall in cupar angus forfar and asked them to help me and i got an e.mail back with all the information that i wanted. i do that with every certificate that i have. i have sent them to dundee, st andrews, maybole in ayr , wigtown , and i have had e.mail from everyone of them. as for names, my father was william. his dad was william.his dad was william, his dad was joseph, and his dad was joseph, and as you say on one of the birth certificates i have joseph born 1855, and on his marriage certificate he was age 28.so if you count back then he was born on 1854. you just have to live with it. i have asked my local town hall and they told me that this is right. and joseph's wife on her birth certificate it has her last name as mclinton and on her sons birth certificate it is mcclintin and on her marriage certificate it is mclintock. and i got told it was the people in the register office at the time that was to blame. i got all my certificates from scotlandpeople.com. but i went to edinburgh and all the certificates are the same . i hope this helps you
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Unfortunately John died at sea c1865 and, despite my best efforts so far on most websites (Scotlands people, etc) I've not yet been able to track down any death records for him.
Why not look for the death of the other John Ford, and see who his parents were? This should settle at least part of the question:)
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On the slim chance anyone is still researching this family..
My 4x g-grandfather was a David Ford born 1794 - Aberlemno, Forfarshire to John Ford and Isobel Spence.
David Ford married Ann Falconer (1798 - 1874).
David Ford had a brother named John b.1792, Aberlemno. John Ford jnr married Ann Falconer's sister, Elizabeth b.1803, St Cyrus.
So the John Ford who married Elizabeth Falconer, is not the same man as the son of James Ford and Elizabeth Davidson.
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1.It might be worthwhile to know that in Scottish familes, if a child died ( say a boy in this case) the next boy born was given the same names, and the same went for girls.
2. If you are unable to read a Scotland's people easily, there is provision for you to contact them and they will send you a better scan.
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Records can be inaccurate for other reasons - one person in my tree had her birth registered on 27th November 1857, by her grandfather, as 14th November 1857. Her baptism, though, was on 8th November 1857, and the birth date on the baptism was 14th October 1857.
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Records can be inaccurate for other reasons - one person in my tree had her birth registered on 27th November 1857, by her grandfather, as 14th November 1857. Her baptism, though, was on 8th November 1857, and the birth date on the baptism was 14th October 1857.
He might have adjusted the facts slightly because I think births had to be registered within 21 days and he would have been fined for waiting almost six weeks.