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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Otakou73 on Sunday 14 May 23 07:03 BST (UK)
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My great grandfather, George James Kent is believed to have spent time at sea from a young age before arriving in New Zealand in the 1860s, probably as crew on a ship as his name doesn’t seem to be on any passenger lists.
He was working as a fisherman here when, in 1876, he married Harriet Heath, who came to Dunedin on the immigrant ship Allahabad in 1873.
Death records give his age as 79 when he drowned at Otakou (near Dunedin), in May, 1909.
Other details were :
Place of birth - Plymouth, England.
Parents - George James Kent and Helen Kent, formerly Mitchell.
His father’s occupation is given as seaman.
I have not been able to find anything to verify his parent’s names or that they
married or lived in Plymouth.
The closest to those names in Plymouth I can find are James and Ellen Kant in the 1841 census whose children include James, age 14, George, 12, Frederick and Elizabeth, and in 1851, James and Elenor Kent, who have several of the same names among their children. In both entries the senior James is described as a fisherman.
The name Helen Mitchell has me stumped, I would be grateful if anyone could shed any light on her connection with the Kent family, or indeed anything that might help me to sort out who might be who among my great grandfather’s English family.
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Welcome to RootsChat!
I also found James and Ellen/Eleanor Kent and thought they were good candidates, but Ellen's maiden name was Craig. They appear to have married on 1829 in Stonehouse, Devon, yet their first child, James, was baptised in 1827.
The problem with parents listed on death certificates is that the information provided is only as accurate as the knowledge of the informant, which makes it rather difficult.
DNA testing may provide clues, but there is no guarantee.
Sorry I could not be of more help.
Queenie :)
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Thank you, Queenie.
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Hi Otakou and a warm welcome to Rootschat
just a little heads up for you - I live in Liverpool - THE BUSIEST SEA PORT in the world mid 1800's
So - the amount of ships at sea was phenomenal..so imagine if you were the Captain and you had a violent crew member - or always drunk and didn't do his job - what would you do ?...
the answer was to BEACH them ...the captain would get as close to a beach as he could - then send him on the life boat to the beach with other crew members - and leave him there stranded ...
.......................
Just a possibility why you can't find him on any Passenger Lists - he may have been beached at New Zealand as punishment .
I am in my 73rd year of life - and as a youngster I knew a few men nicknamed Beach - because they had been Beached years ago
just a bit of Merchant Seamen knowledge for you
:)
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Thank you, Garstonite. That’s an interesting possibility, although if it were the case, his behaviour must have improved as there are no reports of him getting into trouble on land.
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There is a George Kent (occ Sailor) married to a Jesse in Plymouth in 1851, There are two daughters Jesse (c1848) & Mary (1851). In 1861 Jesse states she is married but he is away from home.
KENT, MARY FRANCES mmn GARLAND
GRO Reference: 1851 M Quarter in PLYMOUTH Volume 09 Page 462
Marriage Mar qtr 1847
GARLAND Harriet Jessie Waldron
KENT George
Plymouth 9 441
in 1861 Jesse states she is married but George is away from home. In 1871 she states she is a widow ::). Last child born c1864 - Ellen
...
There are another Kent family in Plymouth in 1871 - James bn c1828 with wife Elizabeth who is naming his children with similar names :-\. Could this be a brother of George
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There was a fire in Plymouth in September 1867 that is in the newspapers. I don't have full access, and the free text is not perfect.
But one of those who seems to have been made homeless was Jessie Kent, a widow with five children. Her husband had (recently) been drowned off the coast of France.
Possibly, Wages & Effects of Deceased Seamen, 1866
Geo Kent, 37, AB seaman on the Tamar, Boulogne
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Thank you Jon
Western Morning News 20 September 1867 - It is a lengthy article, It was a fire in Looe Street Plymouth. It confirms that her husband was drowned on the Tamar on the coast of France.
Well that eliminates that George from leaving home and setting up a new family elsewhere ;D
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Hi Rosie
I guess it does. It doesn't help that if he was 37 when he died, then it makes him about the same age as the George we are looking for.
I don't see a baptism for George, son of James and Ellen/Eleanor, though there are plenty of other baptisms in Plymouth that look like they may be siblings (going on 1841 census)
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I wonder if they found the body ::)
You would think he would have changed his name if he was planning not to return to Plymouth.
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Amazingly ingenious mind you have Rosie ;)
There are a couple of George Kents born in Plymouth/Devomport in the merchant seamen's records. One of them born Plymouth 25 Aug 1830. First went to sea as a boy in 1841. Resides in Plymouth (1845)
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Amazingly ingenious mind you have Rosie ;)
There are a couple of George Kents born in Plymouth/Devomport in the merchant seamen's records. One of them born Plymouth 25 Aug 1830. First went to sea as a boy in 1841. Resides in Plymouth (1845)
Otakou73 have you any idea of his birth date
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Thank you Jon and Rosie. I appreciate your help.
Rosie, I do not have a date of birth for George, just that his death record says was aged 79 when he drowned in May, 1909. He had been in New Zealand for 45 years.
I now wonder if he could be the George in the 1841 census as some of the names in that family are the same as those of his own children, Elizabeth, George and Henry.
Jon, I am intrigued by your mention of the George Kent who went to sea as a boy in 1841, as “my” George is supposed to have left home at a very young age.
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Who is the informant for the death certificate, 1909. How long had he been in New Zealand.
Can you please list all the information on the marriage certificate, 1876.
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Otago Daily Times 12 Apr 1864 p2
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/ODT18640412.2.3.6?
Found outside the Heads, a Norwegian-built skiff. Apply George Kent Maori Kaik.
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Who is the informant for the death certificate, 1909. How long had he been in New Zealand.
Can you please list all the information on the marriage certificate, 1876.
I can’t decipher the surname of the informant on the death certificate but it does say he was “authorised in writing by the coroner”. Possibly someone from the coroner’s office?
According to his death certificate, George had been in New Zealand for 45 years.
The marriage certificate gives scant details. just date and place, that both were of “full age” and names of the minister and witnesses,
Parents names are not listed as it wasn’t until the 1880s that this was a requirement.
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The seaman's ticket for that chap (which is on findmypast) isn't that informative.
It does have a description, height 4' 4", hair brown, complexion fair, eyes hazel.
I'm not so sure now about when he first when to sea (as a boy), it might say 1842 rather than 1841
If you haven't seen it, and have familysearch, the inquest papers from 1909 are on there, with witness statements
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSK1-7375-7
Was Elizabeth Harriet in 1876 the first child of George and Harriet Kent?
But the NZ birth index has father's name as Joseph?
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Otago Daily Times 12 Apr 1864 p2
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/ODT18640412.2.3.6?
Found outside the Heads, a Norwegian-built skiff. Apply George Kent Maori Kaik.
Thank you so much. This is something I have not seen before.
If the information on his death certificate that he been in NZ 45 years when he died is correct, he would not have been in NZ for very long in 1864 and probably spent the rest of his life at Otakou (Maori Kaik).
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Is this your family?
1876/559 KENT George marr HEATH Harriet
1876/11628 KENT Elizabeth Harriet parents Harriet / Joseph
1879/3252 KENT Sarah Louisa parents Harriet / George
1879/9081 KENT Rose parents Harriet / George
1881/499 KENT George James parents Harriet / George
1882/4834 KENT Henry John parents Harriet / George
death
1879/2133 KENT Sarah Louisa 1M
* Can you please list all the information on the marriage record.
* Can you please list all the information on the death record, 1909.
What documents do you have for the BDM events in the lives of the people named here?
Evening Star 25 May 1909 p5
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/ESD19090525.2.40?
.........death of George Kent (seventy-nine years of age)........
Deceased, when a young man, took part in one of the expeditions despatched to the Arctic regions in search of Sir John Franklin.
(John Franklin's expedition to find a north west passage was 1845-46. His wife raised money to fund search for the missing men, with dedicated search expeditions starting 1850.)
Evening Star 22 May 1909 p6
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/ESD19090522.2.60?
....Deceased leaves a widow, and two adult sons and a daughter.
Which daughter is alive at 1909?
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Is this your family?
1876/559 KENT George marr HEATH Harriet
1876/11628 KENT Elizabeth Harriet parents Harriet / Joseph
1879/3252 KENT Sarah Louisa parents Harriet / George
1879/9081 KENT Rose parents Harriet / George
1881/499 KENT George James parents Harriet / George
1882/4834 KENT Henry John parents Harriet / George
death
1879/2133 KENT Sarah Louisa 1M
* Can you please list all the information on the marriage record.
* Can you please list all the information on the death record, 1909.
What documents do you have for the BDM events in the lives of the people named here?
Evening Star 25 May 1909 p5
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/ESD19090525.2.40?
.........death of George Kent (seventy-nine years of age)........
Deceased, when a young man, took part in one of the expeditions despatched to the Arctic regions in search of Sir John Franklin.
(John Franklin's expedition to find a north west passage was 1845-46. His wife raised money to fund search for the missing men, with dedicated search expeditions starting 1850.)
Evening Star 22 May 1909 p6
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/ESD19090522.2.60?
....Deceased leaves a widow, and two adult sons and a daughter.
Which daughter is alive at 1909?
Yes. This is my family.
Elizabeth Harriet would have been the daughter still alive in 1930.
The name Joseph may be an error as George Kent and Harriet Heath married in January 1876 and Elizabeth was born the same year
.I do not have official printouts of her birth details or many others mostly because of the cost. (NZ$25 per printout)
Her married name was Pritchard.
Rose and Sarah Louisa were infants when they died.
Elizabeth Harriet is named along with her mother and brothers on a photograph taken in 1884.
Both of her brothers married, the wife of George James was my grandmother, Makareti Hinenuiatekawa Coupar. They have many descendants from their 15 children.
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What documents do you have for the BDM events in the lives of the people named here?
Can you be specific please.
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What documents do you have for the BDM events in the lives of the people named here?
Can you be specific please.
I hope this will answer your question.
I have two printouts, which are scanned copies of the original handwritten BDM registration information held by the NZ Department of Internal Affairs.
One is for the marriage of George Kent and Harriet Heath in 1876
The other is for the death of George Kent in 1909.
I think I have already included all the information that these contain in earlier posts.
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"The name Joseph may be an error "
Who is the author of this error?
The name of the informant would be useful to know. If father is the informant then you know how he names himself.
"I think I have already included all the information that these contain in earlier posts."
The marriage, 1876,is the earliest recorded evidence you have that your George KENT ever existed. Information on this document is important for people on a forum to assist you.
A marriage, 1876, will record the name of a church / denomination. What do you see?
A marriage, 1876, will record names of witnesses. What do you see?
A marriage will record information about the bride. What do you see?
A death record, 1909, will record marriage details. What do you see?
A death record, 1909, will record details about children. What do you see?
A death record, 1909, will record burial details. What do you see?
You have not given all the information that you have. If required details are left blank, that is useful information.
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"The name Joseph may be an error "
Who is the author of this error?
The name of the informant would be useful to know. If father is the informant then you know how he names himself.
"I think I have already included all the information that these contain in earlier posts."
The marriage, 1876,is the earliest recorded evidence you have that your George KENT ever existed. Information on this document is important for people on a forum to assist you.
A marriage, 1876, will record the name of a church / denomination. What do you see?
A marriage, 1876, will record names of witnesses. What do you see?
A marriage will record information about the bride. What do you see?
A death record, 1909, will record marriage details. What do you see?
A death record, 1909, will record details about children. What do you see?
A death record, 1909, will record burial details. What do you see?
You have not given all the information that you have. If required details are left blank, that is useful information.
Date and place of marriage: House of Rev. Dr. Stuart. Geo. St. Dunedin.
George Kent. full age. fisherman. bachelor.
Harriet Heath. full age. spinster.
Officiating Minister D.M. Stuart
When married 31 Jan. 1876.
Marriage was solemnized between George Kent and Harriet Heath
Donald M Stuart D.D. (officiating Minister or Registrar)
in the presence of
Edward Benjamin Ravenhall, fishmonger. Cannongate, Dunedin.
Frances Lucy Fullam, Duncan St., Dunedin.
When registered: 31 Jan. 1876.
(Rev. Stuart was the minister at Knox Presbyterian Church in Dunedin.
The marriage of George Kent and Harriet Heath is also listed in the church records.)
Death 1909 May 21, Otakou.
George James Kent. farmer. male 79 years.
Verdict of coroner - accidentally drowned.
Father - George James Kent fisherman
Mother - Helen Kent, formerly Mitchell
Buried - 1909 May 24 cemetery Otakou
Name and religion of minister or witness of burial - W. T. Drake. Minister. (religion not stated but was later ordained C of E.)
Where born and how long in New Zealand - Plymouth, England. 45 years.
Where married - Dunedin, Otago.
At what age married - 32 years
To whom married - Harriet Heath
Issue living - 2 males 27 years, 28 years, 1 female 33 years.
Informant - John Giillies (can’t decipher description which is in an abbreviated form) authorised in writing by the coroner.
(signature of Registrar) 1909 June 26.
The birth of Elizabeth Harriet was registered on Nov 1 1876. (born 1876 Sept. 22)
The informant was Harriet Kent, mother of the child.
Father -Joseph Kent fisherman age 36 born Plymouth. England.
Mother - Harriet Kent age 23 formerly Heath born Guildford, Surrey.
When and where married - 1876 January 31 Dunedin.
Henry John - birth registered 1882 March 22.
Father - George Kent fisherman age 47 born Plymouth Devonshire
Mother - Harriet Kent formerly Heath born Guildford Surrey.
When and where married 1876 January 31 Dunedin.
Informant - George Kent father of child.
When Harriet Kent gave the date of her marriage when she registered her daughter’s birth she hadn’t married the same person she named as the child’s father.
George Kent gives his age as 47 in 1882 so he is not Joseph who was 36 in 1876.
That also means he was not 32 when he married as stated in his death documents
However, if he did give his correct age when he registered their son’s birth it also means that he would have been born about 1834, not 1830 and would have been around 75, not 79 when he died.
I would have thought that his age would have been verified in some way at his inquest but perhaps everything pertaining to that is just guesswork.
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Is the death certificate the only document that gives a middle name for George Kent.
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One tree on ancestry has a baptism for Harriett Heath, 28 June 1848, St. Mary Guildford
Parents George and Harriett
Source England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975.
She is transcribed on ancestry as Henriett Hath (Surrey, England, Church of England Baptisms, 1813-1921)
Death in NZ in 1929
Harriet Kent, age 81
The birth of Elizabeth Harriet was registered on Nov 1 1876. (born 1876 Sept. 22)
The informant was Harriet Kent, mother of the child.
Father -Joseph Kent fisherman age 36 born Plymouth. England.
Mother - Harriet Kent age 23 formerly Heath born Guildford, Surrey.
So Harriet's age was well out on that birth registration. And she was the informant. Apparently!
No age given for Harriet on Henry John's registration?
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Is the death certificate the only document that gives a middle name for George Kent.
The Public Trustee names him as George James on the document stamped by the probate office, but he died intestate, so that may have been taken from his death certificate?
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One tree on ancestry has a baptism for Harriett Heath, 28 June 1848, St. Mary Guildford
Parents George and Harriett
Source England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975.
She is transcribed on ancestry as Henriett Hath (Surrey, England, Church of England Baptisms, 1813-1921)
Death in NZ in 1929
Harriet Kent, age 81
The birth of Elizabeth Harriet was registered on Nov 1 1876. (born 1876 Sept. 22)
The informant was Harriet Kent, mother of the child.
Father -Joseph Kent fisherman age 36 born Plymouth. England.
Mother - Harriet Kent age 23 formerly Heath born Guildford, Surrey.
So Harriet's age was well out on that birth registration. And she was the informant. Apparently!
No age given for Harriet on Henry John's registration?
Sorry, I missed that. Her age on Henry John’s registration, according to the informant, George Kent, her husband and the child’s father, was 29. Which she would have been if she was 23 when her daughter was born.
If those ages are accurate, she could not have been 80 or 81 when she died.
George’s age at his inquest was given as 79 by his older son (George James).
And that son’s children were always told that the photo of their grandmother, (Harriet) that hung on the wall of their parents house was taken on her 80th birthday (she was pictured holding a cake).
I am now wondering now if the children of George and Harriet ever knew the correct ages of their parents.
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I am wondering whether he was just George Kent and the son assumed he had a middle name especially as it does not appear on any documents that George or his wife initiated. It is likely that 'Joseph' Kent was just an error by the clergy on that baptism. The registers were often completed in batches so it would have been easy to make an error
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I am wondering whether he was just George Kent and the son assumed he had a middle name especially as it does not appear on any documents that George or his wife initiated. It is likely that 'Joseph' Kent was just an error by the clergy on that baptism. The registers were often completed in batches so it would have been easy to make an error
I am thinking the same about that birth registration.
Assuming that the information George gave when registering his son’s birth was accurate:
He was born in Plymouth, Devonshire.
In March, 1882 he was 47 years old, therefore was born 1834 or early 1835.
A newspaper advertisement that he had found a skiff out at sea indicates he was living at Otakou in 1864.
What is certain is that:
He married Harriet Heath in January, 1876.
He was accidentally drowned in 1909.
If the age on his death registration was provided by the same son who told the inquest that his father was 79 when he died, I wonder if the names of his parents might be inaccurate as well?
Those were recorded as being George James Kent and Helen Kent, formerly Mitchell.
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It's possible that George's year of birth, based on the age given, varies from certificate to certificate.
I mean there are two or three other birth certificates you don't have. I am not suggesting that you buy them. But obviously we don't know what age was given for George on them. They could drag his birth back to about 1830 again!
The Intention to Marry notices have often been mentioned on Rootschat. Didn't someone on here do look ups at the archive at one time? Anyway, it may give age and number of years in New Zealand for George?
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Can you confirm please that the documents that you have for NZ BDM are printouts.
You are transcribing hand written details.
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Can you confirm please that the documents that you have for NZ BDM are printouts.
You are transcribing hand written details.
Yes. They are printouts, not certificates.
They are handwritten.
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Documents where William KENT is the author of information about himself should be read as the most reliable until/unless you have reason to believe otherwise.
That would be the marriage record, and child's birth record.
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Documents where William KENT is the author of information about himself should be read as the most reliable until/unless you have reason to believe otherwise
Who is William Kent? :-\
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Documents where William KENT is the author of information about himself should be read as the most reliable until/unless you have reason to believe otherwise
Who is William Kent? :-\
I think wivenhoe meant George Kent. But I wouldn’t mind too much if a William turned up among the Georges for some variety in the names!
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It's possible that George's year of birth, based on the age given, varies from certificate to certificate.
I mean there are two or three other birth certificates you don't have. I am not suggesting that you buy them. But obviously we don't know what age was given for George on them. They could drag his birth back to about 1830 again!
The Intention to Marry notices have often been mentioned on Rootschat. Didn't someone on here do look ups at the archive at one time? Anyway, it may give age and number of years in New Zealand for George?
Thank you. I was not aware of those notices.
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It's possible that George's year of birth, based on the age given, varies from certificate to certificate.
I mean there are two or three other birth certificates you don't have. I am not suggesting that you buy them. But obviously we don't know what age was given for George on them. They could drag his birth back to about 1830 again!
I have now seen the birth registration for his two sons on which George himself is the informant.
George James Kent b.Dec 15, 1880. Father: George Kent, fisherman,
age 46 yrs. b. Plymouth, Devonshire.
Mother: Harriet Kent, formerly Heath,
age 28 yrs. b. Guildford Surrey.
Henry John Kent b. March 2, 1882. Father: as above, age 47 yrs.
Mother: as above, age 29 yrs.
Harriet Kent gave her age as 23 when registering a daughter’s birth in 1876.
If these ages are correct, it seems both George and Harriet were younger than they were believed to be when they died.
George was recorded as 79 in 1909 (informant authorised by coroner)
Harriet, 81 yrs in 1929 (informant, the undertaker).