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General => Ancestral Family Tree DNA Testing => Topic started by: kjmck on Tuesday 27 June 23 23:52 BST (UK)
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Hi Everyone,
Looking for opinions and advice on this one.
I ordered my brother-in-law an Ancestry DNA test as his mother was adopted and we were curious to find out anything about her family. The results came back recently and it has confirmed what we thought we knew about his biological maternal grandmother who was a lady from Co. Wicklow, who moved to England with her sister in their late teens, and she gave birth a few years later in October 1961.
DNA matches have come back on the maternal biological grandfathers line indicating that this man was from America. I think I have narrowed it down to one man, who I have been told was in the military, so perhaps there was some conflict or reason he would have been stationed over in England in 1960/1961? This line of the family seems to have multiple DNA connections, well over 40 that I can pinpoint.
Now, the bombshell in this is that the DNA results revealed that my brother in law's father, is not his biological father which was not expected. His father, auntie, half sister, paternal cousins have previously tested and are not showing as DNA matches on ancestry. So this has thrown up a lot of questions.
Can it be possible that there can be any mistake in these DNA results? I have read this question from many other researchers, but now I find myself asking it too.
I know it may be difficult to research the paternal line as not many close DNA matches have come up, and being mainly Welsh with the common surnames that seem to be appearing it makes it extra difficult. Can anyone advise on how to approach this, what services or professionals may be able to help?
I look forward to hearing from anyone willing to help.
Many thanks,
Keelan
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I can't answer from the DNA angle but look at when his parents married in relation to when he was born?
Depending on those dates - some possibilities.
He was illegitimate - born before the marriage
His mother was already pregnant by somebody else when she married. Husband may have thought he was the father so you need to be careful or he may have known & agreed to bring him up as his own child
Mother had an affair during the marriage. Tread very carefully if this could be a possibility - particularly if she & her husband are still alive & he may not be aware
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DNA matches have come back on the maternal biological grandfathers line indicating that this man was from America. I think I have narrowed it down to one man, who I have been told was in the military, so perhaps there was some conflict or reason he would have been stationed over in England in 1960/1961? This line of the family seems to have multiple DNA connections, well over 40 that I can pinpoint.
There were, and still are US military bases in England.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7113062.stm
Do you know whether your b-i-l's grandmother lived near one of them?
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Yes, as Carole said, did your brother in law's mum marry before pregnancy, during pregnancy, or did she marry after your bil was born?
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Now, the bombshell in this is that the DNA results revealed that my brother in law's father, is not his biological father which was not expected. His father, auntie, half sister, paternal cousins have previously tested and are not showing as DNA matches on ancestry. So this has thrown up a lot of questions
If your brother in laws father is still living, maybe suggest they both do a YDNA test with familytreedna which follows the paternal line. If nothing else it will give a second opinion and perhaps point towards a suggested name if your brother in law and his father do not match.
Of course, this might be delicate to approach his father if he isn’t aware of any dna issues.
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I can't answer from the DNA angle but look at when his parents married in relation to when he was born?
Depending on those dates - some possibilities.
He was illegitimate - born before the marriage
His mother was already pregnant by somebody else when she married. Husband may have thought he was the father so you need to be careful or he may have known & agreed to bring him up as his own child
Mother had an affair during the marriage. Tread very carefully if this could be a possibility - particularly if she & her husband are still alive & he may not be aware
Hi Carole,
His parents married Jul-Sept 1981 and he was born in October 1983, so it would appear to be an extra-marital affair. His parent's have been made aware, not by myself, and his father didn't know or have an inkling that he wasn't his biological father. A rather difficult situation as you can imagine. :/
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DNA matches have come back on the maternal biological grandfathers line indicating that this man was from America. I think I have narrowed it down to one man, who I have been told was in the military, so perhaps there was some conflict or reason he would have been stationed over in England in 1960/1961? This line of the family seems to have multiple DNA connections, well over 40 that I can pinpoint.
There were, and still are US military bases in England.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7113062.stm
Do you know whether your b-i-l's grandmother lived near one of them?
Hi Galium,
Thanks for this. My b-i-l's mother was born in Epping, and at the time her mother was working as a chambermaid in a pub in Braintree.
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Yes, as Carole said, did your brother in law's mum marry before pregnancy, during pregnancy, or did she marry after your bil was born?
Hi,
Unfortunately in this case it appears he was conceived through an affair had during the marriage.
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Now, the bombshell in this is that the DNA results revealed that my brother in law's father, is not his biological father which was not expected. His father, auntie, half sister, paternal cousins have previously tested and are not showing as DNA matches on ancestry. So this has thrown up a lot of questions
If your brother in laws father is still living, maybe suggest they both do a YDNA test with familytreedna which follows the paternal line. If nothing else it will give a second opinion and perhaps point towards a suggested name if your brother in law and his father do not match.
Of course, this might be delicate to approach his father if he isn’t aware of any dna issues.
Hi,
That's a good idea thank you for that. I have found someone who is showing as either a second cousin or a 1st cousin twice removed, so possibly looking at shared great grandparents. So I am in contact trying to find out from the other person if this match is on their maternal or paternal line so that I can start to eliminate two sets of great grandparents. But it will be a slow process
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Yes, as Carole said, did your brother in law's mum marry before pregnancy, during pregnancy, or did she marry after your bil was born?
Hi,
Unfortunately in this case it appears he was conceived through an affair had during the marriage.
So around January 1983 she fell pregnant by another man if the baby was born October that year, and she had married the supposed father in 1981.
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I note you mention his parents have been made aware so assume his mother is still alive. Is that correct?
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I can't answer from the DNA angle but look at when his parents married in relation to when he was born?
Depending on those dates - some possibilities.
He was illegitimate - born before the marriage
His mother was already pregnant by somebody else when she married. Husband may have thought he was the father so you need to be careful or he may have known & agreed to bring him up as his own child
Mother had an affair during the marriage. Tread very carefully if this could be a possibility - particularly if she & her husband are still alive & he may not be aware
Hi Carole,
His parents married Jul-Sept 1981 and he was born in October 1983, so it would appear to be an extra-marital affair. His parent's have been made aware, not by myself, and his father didn't know or have an inkling that he wasn't his biological father. A rather difficult situation as you can imagine. :/
If I’ve correctly understood all of the comments, another possibility: putting it delicately, the mother may not have willingly consented to the situation, but went ahead with the pregnancy anyway.
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The nearest American air base to Braintree was Wethersfield, it closed some years ago.
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Yes, as Carole said, did your brother in law's mum marry before pregnancy, during pregnancy, or did she marry after your bil was born?
Hi,
Unfortunately in this case it appears he was conceived through an affair had during the marriage.
You should download the Ancestry DNA and upload to MyHeritage, LivingDNA, FamilytreeDNA and GEDMATCH. You may have to pay a small fee to use extra features.
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If your brother in laws father is still living, maybe suggest they both do a YDNA test with familytreedna which follows the paternal line. If nothing else it will give a second opinion and perhaps point towards a suggested name if your brother in law and his father do not match.
This is a good idea. You can get the 37 marker one for about £80, when it's on sale, which occurs around holidays like Christmas.
https://www.familytreedna.com/products/y-dna
The issue with that is it only shows if you're related within about 1,000 years, so you will have lots of matches with many surnames.
If they include the surname of this suspected man from the US, then that's an extra citation.
You need 700 markers test to be able to reasonably determine distance of relationship with these tests.
These tests are also mostly taken by Americans. You won't get many UK matches. And sometimes you get zero matches.
found someone who is showing as either a second cousin or a 1st cousin twice removed
What is the level of shared cM?
Given the short-term time frame you can narrow the relationship down a bit more. And because it's a half-relationship, the calculation is different.
So if it's saying second cousin (something like 150-300cM in most cases), the full relationship is going to be something like 2nd cousin and then a half-1st cousin.
(https://i.postimg.cc/d0jSMntL/Screenshot-from-2023-07-19-01-30-25.png)
If you have dates of birth and lists of siblings, it will be easier to get a handle on it.
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You say his parents are aware of the DNA results & that his mother had an affair. That suggests more than a “one night stand” so doesn’t she know the name/nationality of your brother in laws biological father?
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Hi Everyone,
My apologies for the delayed response, unfortunately work and daily life gets in the way of how much I want to do this.
The situation has not improved, although it has calmed somewhat, there is no resolution in sight nor the possibility of any truths being told any time soon.
I will take on board what all have suggested, including the additional Y-DNA testing which may be an idea, though not cheap.
Though on the plus side there have been positive strides made with my BIL's maternal heritage which is indeed American/Irish.
Many thanks,
Keelan
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I would query the validity of the test with Ancestry, to see if there are recorded issues with the sample.
Hopefully they would send another test FOC, if not then I would suggest that your BiL buys and takes another DNA test.
Additionally if your BiL has a Brother that they both take a Y-DNA test, this is a long shot but imo one worth trying if all else fails
As suggested prior, uploading to all the usual websites the Ancestry DNA file may yield results that can help.
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Hi,
Thanks for getting back to me.
I did query whether the test results might be wrong, as they were so unexpected, but the maternal line has proven to be spot on. So I don’t know how likely it is the paternal line would be incorrect coming from the same sample.
BIL unfortunately doesn’t have a brother, but a sister.
A test was taken with 23&me some time prior and gave different results on the paternal line that seemed to make more sense but I know the results are based in the people already in the databases. Will upload the results to other sites and see what they yield.
Keelan
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Alas DNA does not always give a quick fix, it can end up being a Waiting Game hoping more useful test results are posted.
Good Luck.