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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Yorkshire (West Riding) => Topic started by: gaz2195 on Thursday 19 October 23 17:21 BST (UK)
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Hi,
I'm trying to trace the birth record for Henry Brameld, born c1823 (spelling of Brameld has been variable throughout)
He married Jane Wilson in 1846 in Rawmarsh, South Yorkshire and lived there until his death in 1897. His father was stated as Thomas Brameld on his marriage certificate.
All the census records from 1851 onwards, consistenly show his birthplace as Staffordshire, with some showing Penkhull as well. He is also shown as a cordwainer/shoemaker throughout each census. I cannot however, find any record relating to his birth.
I've tried looking for him in 1841 and I believe he is in Rotherham. I have found a household on the same street as he lived on another census, with a Henry Brameld b.1826 (presumably rounded with the 1841 census) living with Abraham and Mary Brameld. Abraham shows as a shoemaker and Henry as apprentice. Possibly a coincidence, as his father is stated as Thomas on other records. It doesn't give their relationship though and Abraham is much older.
There are also records from the same village for children born to John Brameld, Shoemaker, in the 1760's. It feels like the same family, but I just cant tie it together with a birth in Staffordshire in 1823?
I'm hoping I can use any information, to link Henry to other Bramelds living close by, who owned the world famous Rockingham Pottery around the same time and supplied the royal family.
Fingers crossed I have something interesting, rather than farmers and agricultural labourers.
Thanks
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He married Jane Wilson in 1846 in Rawmarsh, South Yorkshire and lived there until his death in 1897. His father was stated as Thomas Brameld on his marriage certificate.
What was the occupation of his father Thomas, given on the marriage record?
Who were the witnesses to the marriage?
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Birthplace on 1861 is Stoke & 1871 Penkridge Staffs
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Father Thomas Brameld was also a Cordwainer
Her father was Thomas Wilson - Parish Clerk
Witnesses John Wright and Dinah Wilson
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Part of your answer is in the 1851 census - Green Lane Rawmarsh
Henry Bramald 28 shoe maker
Jane 28
Sarah 4
Thomas 2
Mary 6 months
Mary Bramald 71 Aunt
Isn't this the wife of Abraham in 1841?
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That would make sense. I had seen the aunt living with him when I first found him, but it had slipped my mind as I didn't know who she was.
That would make Thomas and Abraham brothers. It does have a 'Y' at the side of Henry to say that he was born in that county (Yorkshire), but there must be a reason why he says Staffordshire on every other census.
Gut feel is that they are linked to John Brameld (shoemaker) who was having children in Rawmarsh in the 1760's. I've been through the parish records though and can't see an Abraham.
If I can tie them to John, I may also be able to tie them to the pottery.
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It looks like Abraham was Non Conformist the only child I can find is William bap 1818 born 2 October
of Rawmarsh at Masborough.
The parish registers of Penkhull do not begin until 1843 so you would have to check nearby parishes for a baptism. Complicated if they were non conformist.
Have you checked the Archives for Staffordshire for non conformist records?
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Might explain why I can't find many records of Bramelds at all from that time, not just Henry.
I'll see what I can find
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His wife Jane Wilson was easier to find.
FreeReg.
Children of Thomas Wilson and Hannah Ward daughter of John Ward- possible marriage 30 October 1797 St Peter Sheffield.
Note the parish register says his wife is the daughter of John Ward for the majority of the baptisms.
Elizabeth bap 9 April 1798 father shoemaker
Ann bap 4 May 1800 cordwainer
John bap 2 March 1802 shoemaker
William bap 6 March 1803 shoemaker
Thomas bap 14 April 1805 shoemaker
Isaac bap 2 July 1809 (born 2 March) shoemaker
Sarah bap 18 August 1811 shoemaker
Hannah bap 10 April 1814 (Born 18 October 1813) shoemaker
Maybe missing one here.
Dinah bap 2 January 1820 father Parish Clerk (witness at the marriage of Henry B and Jane W.)
Jane bap 7 July 1822 father Parish Clerk
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Thanks. There's a few there that I did not have, for the early births.
It seems that the Bramelds and the Wilsons were linked through their occupation/trade.
There are so many Bramelds in Rawmarsh, Swinton and Wath Upon Dearne from either side of Henry's birth, it's like his staffordshire birth is an anomaly.
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I think the missing baptism is Mary Wilson
She marries Richard Chester 4-2-1841 father Thomas Wilson Parish Clerk (4 February 1841)
witness William Wilson and Dinah Wilson (brother and sister) by license.
Notes
Abraham Brameld married Mary Wilson 23 November 1807
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Lots of BMD church records for Rawmarsh & Rotherham
https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/WRY/Rawmarsh
https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/WRY/Rotherham
Burial for Thomas Wilson age 81 in 1847 has him as church clerk for 30 years. Also burial for Abraham 1842 age 63
Possible death - wife of Abraham
BRAMMELD, MARY age 77
GRO Reference: 1858 J Quarter in ROTHERHAM Volume 09C Page 257
Cas
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The records are generally pretty good for Rawmarsh and Wath. I've built myself a bit of a spreadsheet to see if I can tie it together.
The John Brameld that I spoke about that is a shoemaker, had three children, George (1765), John (1767) and Rebecca (1770). No mother is given, but there is a death record for a Rebecca, wife of John, Shoemaker in 1774.
In 1775 there is a marriage between John Brameld and Gertrude Wright (a later death record in Mar 1782 shows Gertrude as wife of John, Shoemaker).
I cannot find any record of births to those two but there are 3 interesting burials that I don't have birth records for
Thomas buried Oct 1774 (father John, Shoemaker)
Isaac buried Jan 1786 (father John, Shoemaker)
Jacob buried Apr 1786 (father John, Shoemaker)
It may not be the same John, but a third marriage shows in Jun 1782 to Hannah Barrow.
With the 3 burials seemingly not being in the birth records, I'd assume that Abraham in 1779 was their sibling and that for whatever reason, they are in the non conformist records, which is why I can't find his birth either. His occupation as a shoemaker, along with Henry his apprentice, surely means they are linked to John!?
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It looks a good possibility. The Brameld family seems substantial, have you considered DNA testing?
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I have one on it's way to Ancestry, but seems to be taking ages. Wonder if has been lost in transit.
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I have one on it's way to Ancestry, but seems to be taking ages. Wonder if has been lost in transit.
Normally when it arrives, if I remember correctly, you get an email. It also updates on your DNA profile so you can track until completed and you get your results.
May have changed as that was a few years ago.
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It still has the tracking to what stage it is at. It's been 2 weeks and it's still not showing as received. My wife sent one to myheritage in America and they've already booked that one in
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It still has the tracking to what stage it is at. It's been 2 weeks and it's still not showing as received. My wife sent one to myheritage in America and they've already booked that one in
It can take a while. All in all mine took approx 6 - 8 weeks, I guess it depends on the volume of testing they have at the time maybe.
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Just this second had the email to say they've got it :o
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Great news, good luck with the research & matches :)
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Possible???
Thomas Brameld of the parish of Wath Upon Dearne in West Riding in the County of York bachelor
married Jane Sherwood of this parish spinster by license 24 November 1815. Christ Church Southwark, Surrey.
Witness J A? Butt, W J Brameld, S F Butt, Mary Sherwood, Frances Sarah Butt.
All could write.
Check if the license survived it may tell you more.
Was his apprenticeship in Surrey and that's how he met Jane?
The wife often goes home for the first birth so you may find a baptism or more in Surrey.
Ref: ancestry
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Maybe a red herring.
1841 census Swinton
Thomas Brameld 50 Porter
Jane 45
George 45
Arthur 15
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1841 census Swinton
Thomas Brameld 50 Porter
Occupation - Potter?
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I stand corrected re Thomas.
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Newspapers may be a good source to sort out the family.
Sheffield Independent 9 November 1915
Death and funeral of Thomas Brameld in his 67th year, mentions Mrs. Caroline -sister. This would be sister Mary who married Luke Caroline 1874.
Therefore this Thomas is the son of Henry and Jane.
These notices mention all the relatives.
Notes:
brother William married Elizabeth Careless 1874, sister Jane Elizabeth married Alfred Popple 1878, sister Mary married Luke Caroline 1874, sister Sarah 19 married George Dodson 20 on 2 October 1864, and Thomas himself married Jane Brameld 1873
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By sort out I mean there is another Thomas Brameld who became a choir master and self taught musician, son of a cobbler of Rawmarsh
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That Thomas who married Jane is part of the family that owned Rockingham Pottery. His brother John Wager Brameld also had children in London, Chelsea.
Thomas did have a son called Henry Edward Brameld in 1819, so close to the date I'm looking for, but that one became a physician and moved north.
Again, it just feels like they are linked. The name Henry didn't appear from early 1700 right through to the 1800's, then there were two in 1818 and 1823
The newspapers might be a good suggestion. My own line comes from the George Dodson and Sarah Brameld marriage
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I was looking at your query yesterday and got a bit caught up with Enoch Brameld who was born abt. 1824, he usually says in Tunstall but on 1871 says Penkhull. Enoch appears to be the illegitimate son of Elizabeth Brameld. When he marries in 1845 no father’s name is given. I can not find anything to link Enoch to your Henry but the possible Penkhull connection did stand out. The names of his children also included Abraham, Henry and Thomas.
Probably just another coincidence given the location but his occupation was often given as potter.
The spelling of the surname seems to vary considerably:
1841 - Brammer
1851 - Bramah
1861/1871 - Brammer
1845 marriage - Bramald
1880 death - Brameld
Thought I’d post information just in case.
Pinetree
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Thanks. The surname spelling is definitely causing me issues. I have Mother and Father having 7 kids with 5 different spellings on the name, and not even just by a letter e.g. Bramald vs Bramhall
I'll see if I can find a link with the info I have
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The newspapers might be a good suggestion. My own line comes from the George Dodson and Sarah Brameld marriage
I have a SPEIGHT family living in Wath-Upon-Dearne in the West Riding of Yorkshire and working as colourist and chemist in that Pottery.
This led me to my Dodson line of farmers, which then led me to the Domesday book and several mentions of a DODA (Dodson = Son of Doda)
https://opendomesday.org/name/