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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Topic started by: iwccc on Tuesday 31 October 23 11:42 GMT (UK)
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I am searching for two women who served in the Woolwich Arsenal in WW1. Names: Mabel Edith Fluke (nee Francis) and Elizabeth Britchford. Is there any lists of people working with munitions?
Where could I obtain this information.
Mabel EdithFrancis I believe was also in the armed forces so I am searching for her history.
Any help would be. greatly appreciated. Elizabeth lost of boyfriend in WW1 and never married and I am finding it very difficult to trace her family tree. Thank you
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Over 60% of WW1 records were burnt during the WW2 blitz
Mabel was b 1893 & married 1918 - the marriage cert shows her as a dressmaker but the war was over by the time she married
When did Elizabeth die? Where did you get her details from & the fact she never married?
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Elizabeth is possibly 'Lizzie' in 1921. :-\
ADDED
There is a Miss Lizzie Britchford mentioned in the Norwood News 8th August 1919 as giving flowers at a funeral of Mrs G A M L Gardiner
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Mabel Fluke's RAF record is available free of charge from TNA:
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D7503335
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CaroleW. Thank you for your reply. This lady was very kind to me when I was a little girl. I knew her as Aunty Lizzie Britchford. All I know about her is that she and my grandmother (Mabel Edith Francis/Fluke) met one day by chance wearing their Woolwich Arsenal Badges. They then became firm friends (both from England). I only know that Aunty Lizzie was in the Salvation Army and left me her Timbrell when she died. No one left to ask the date but I assume it was when I was between7 and 11 years of age but cannot be sure. She was born in England and must have lived around Woolwich when she did war service. Died in Australia (Sydney somewhere. I want to hand the timbrell on to the Salvation Army Museum and would like to add some details of the original owner. Thanks again
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Thanks ShaunJ I will look this up. Mabel Edith was my grandmother. Much appreciated.
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Dear Rosie99, Thank you so much for your reply. I knew this lady as Aunty Lizzie so this may be her. Is Norwood near Woolwich (where she worked in the Arsenal in the War)? I am afraid I don't know the towns in England. Because she never married and had no children - and also my relatives that knew her have died - it is very hard to find out about this lady. I appreciate your help.The search continues......
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Hi,
Elizabeth BRITCHFORD arrived in Australia in 1926. She was 32 and came on Beltana departing 25th March. She states occ. as a warehouse worker and indicates she intends to stay in Australia.
She appears on the NSW Electoral Rolls from 1931, at first in Darling Street Balmain, and after that at Merton Street Rozelle to 1963. Her occupation is home duties, so one wonders at her means of support.
After that I do not see her on records.
However there is a burial in USA for a woman of the name in 1967 of unknown birthdate.
Gate of Heaven Cemetery and Mausoleum, East Hanover, Morris County, New Jersey USA
Mem ID 92543352
It may be worth asking on the USA board if more can be found on this person.
Sue
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Using her age when she travelled gives a birthyear of around 1893/4 - this is the only possibility
Elizabeth Jane Britchford. Dec qtr 1893. Ampthill 3b 370 her mothers maiden name was Dunber
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There is a Sept 1893 marriage in Ampthill between William Britchford & Mary Ann BUNKER. The 1901 census has a Jenny Britchford aged living with Bunker grandparents. If she was Elizabeth Jane - hence Jenny
May be coincidence but a 23yr old William Britchford died Ampthill 17.9.1893 - the same qtr as the marriage
1911 - 17yr old Jane Britchford is still with Bunker grandparents
The grandparents may have used her middle name to avoid confusion as the 1891 shows them with a daughter Lizzie
Mary Bunker was b 1870 Flitwick Bedfordshire & in 1901 & 1911 Mary Britchford is a widow - servant
I think she may have married Amos Scott in 1914
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Thanks Sparrett, Very helpful information. Now I need to concentrate on where and when she died. She is a bit of a mystery. Thanks again
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Is Norwood near Woolwich (where she worked in the Arsenal in the War)? I am afraid I don't know the towns in England.
When Lizzie went to Australia in 1926 she gave her address as 13 Hoyle Road, Tooting (Surrey).
On the census that I mentioned prior to her departure she was in Whitstable, Kent.
For Norwood you need to look at Upper/South Norwood but remember it was a funeral that she was attending, the lady who had died did missionary and church work.
Maybe it would be an idea for you to look up these places on online maps to get some idea of where they were in relation to each other.
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Using her age when she travelled gives a birthyear of around 1893/4 - this is the only possibility
Elizabeth Jane Britchford. Dec qtr 1893. Ampthill 3b 370 her mothers maiden name was Dunber
Possible death for that one
Deaths Dec qtr 1912
BRITCHFORD Elizabeth J age 18
Ampthill 3b 419
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Is Norwood near Woolwich (where she worked in the Arsenal in the War)? I am afraid I don't know the towns in England.
Yes, very near. Trains and tube within London. Well within commuter belt. Also 38 mins from Tooting to Sth Norwood.
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Well done Rosie - that shoots that one down.
I wonder if she is on the 1921 census which would at least give her birthplace
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I think she is in Whitstable, Kent in 1921 as Lizzie
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Hello CaroleW, Thank you for your information. At this point I cannot understand how it fits together. Will need to do more research. Lizzie, I am told, never married as she lost her boyfriend in the War. These people may be relatives - more research needed. Thank you for your contribution, bit by bit I am starting to build a picture.
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Thank you Rosie99, Did the article give any clue as to what type of church work - was it with the Salvation Army - that would fit with what I know of Lizzie.
As far as her death I knew her when I was a small child (under 10years of age 1956) so she must have died from the late 50s onwards. Mabel Edith Fluke (nee Francis died in Oct. 1955)
Very appreciative of your help
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As I mentioned previously, during the time she is on the electoral roll in Australia, she has no occupation other that Home Duties.
Now, this may mean as in a wifely manner whilst her supporting partner earns an income.
Or, it may be as in a live-in position in a household where she has board and keep and a small wage in exchange for domestic assistance .
Have you followed up n the USA burial?
Sue
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The English 1921 census is only available via subscription on FindMyPast & details that are only available via subscription are not allowed to be given.
Rosie has provided her location in 1921 but you need to look at the full entry to establish where she was born now the other Elizabeth Britchford has been ruled out
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Thank you Rosie99, Did the article give any clue as to what type of church work - was it with the Salvation Army - that would fit with what I know of Lizzie.
The article is here and available to view with a free trial, it is lengthy so will leave it to you to read
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01srh/
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Hello Sparrett, I have just found out that when she was in Australia she worked at the Salvation Army Peoples Palace as a cleaner. I will need to find out where this building is or was - perhaps it is at the address shown for her on the census.
Also apparently she looked after the Bonnell children for their father so again she may have been listed as 'home duties'. She never married as she lost her boyfriend in WW1.
Thank you for your ongoing help with this research.
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Just had a thought. In reply 4 you say she left you her Timbrell. That indicates there must have been a will. I've looked on the English probate website but nothing there so have you checked for a will?
Also - have you looked at the English 1921 census entry yet to determine where she was born?
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Thanks CaaroleW - The oral history is that I was left the timbrell in her will but I have no proof of that - maybe she just told someone I was to have it. What site can I look up wills? I assume she died in Australia - again no proof as yet. Also I am not sure how to get into the English 1921 census. Can you advise me please? Thanks again for your help.
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From reply 4 above
The English 1921 census is only available via subscription on FindMyPast & details that are only available via subscription are not allowed to be given.
Rosie has provided her location in 1921 but you need to look at the full entry to establish where she was born now the other Elizabeth Britchford has been ruled out
Re will - You would have to establish when she died & in view of the earlier reply - whether it was in Australia or the USA
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When Elizabeth BRITCHFORD travelled per Beltana to Sydney, she was not alone.
She came with a woman and the woman's children and she had shared the previous home address with them -13 Hoyle Rd Tooting, Surrey.
Ticket No. 1971
Mrs Janet Orr JACKSON, previous address 13 Hoyle Rd Tooting, Surrey. Housewife. Aged 35. Intending permanent Australia
Her children.
Daisy Lily aged 8
Elsie Alice aged 6
Ticket no. 1972
William A. N.aged 10
Although they have come from the same address, Elizabeth's ticket no. is not consecutive with theirs.
Suggests a seperate booking. All 3rd class.
From 1931 to 1935, the JACKSON group and Elizabeth share same addresses in Sydney.
Janet Orr JACKSON may have been a widow or divorced because in 1939 , she married.
21169/1939
CHURCHLAND Vincent James
JACKSON Janet Orr
at ROZELLE
I see this couple on electoral rolls round Sydney where he was a docker up to 1963.
After that, I cannot immediately locate them.
Sue
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William Albert Nello Jackson b 1915 mmn Calder
Daisy Lily Jackson b 1917 mmn Calder
Elsie Alice Jackson b 1919 mmn Calder
Janet O Calder married William J Jackson 1915 Wandsworth
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William Albert Nello Jackson b 1915 mmn Calder
Daisy Lily Jackson b 1917 mmn Calder
Elsie Alice Jackson b 1919 mmn Calder
Janet O Calder married William J Jackson 1915 Wandsworth
I think the middle initial for William is H. (finger slip ? ;) )
When the daughter Daisy Lily JACKSON married in Sydney in 1938 to Wm Herbert WHITBREAD, she gave her father’s name as William Harold JACKSON, a chef , deceased, and mother Janet Orr (nee CALDER).
There is a tree on Ancestry which includes a 1928 news item stating William Harold Jackson is wanted for wife desertion. Four children. Can’t be sure it is the same man really as no other details or names are given.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/252094800
However, these people seem to be out of Elizabeth BRITCHFORD's life by this point.
Sue