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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Spinelli on Saturday 25 November 23 23:34 GMT (UK)
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Hi,
Wondering if anyone can help locate a marriage record.
Alexander Brown
Ann Mitchell
7th June or July 1871
Govan
I have these details on two of their children birth certificates so fairly confident the names are correct but I can't find their marriage record.
Any help would be appreciated.
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Birthdates/birthplaces for both please
When was their first child born?
Are they on the 1871 census as a married couple? If so - marriage was before census date
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Yes it would be helpful to know the children's names and dates of birth.
In the meanwhile, is this the family ......?
Just a few births from many:
Alexander Brown born Dec 1869 Aberdeen (died 1871)
Parents – Alexander Brown and Ann Mitchell
Elizabeth Mitchell Brown born Apr 1874 Aberdeen
Parents – Alexander Brown and Ann Mitchell
Census shows the family in Aberdeen in 1871 – 1881 -- etc
Oldest son David Brown born abt 1863 Aberdeen
Other children – George 1868, Alexander 1869, James 1872, Elizabeth 1874, Ann 1877, Alexander 1885, William 1890
Possible Marriage
BROWN ALEXANDER MITCHELL ANN
18 JULY 1866 168 / 2 / 186
OLD MACHAR ABERDEEN BURGH
Alexander Brown born abt 1835 Ayr (a labourer)
Ann Mitchell born abt 1846 Aberdeen
1861 census
https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/59026b9fe9379091b1de3f9a/ann-mitchell-1861-aberdeenshire-aberdeen-1846-?locale=en
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Ann (Annie) Mitchell born abt. 1845-1849 in Ayrshire according to census.
Had daughter Mary Jane Mitchell in 1869 in Ayrshire (no father on birth certificate).
Annie & Mary Jane are boarders in a house in Govan in 1871 census.
Annie & Alexander Brown's first child together is John Brown, b. 1872.
They had several more children including Allan Dick Brown and William Alexander Brown and the family is on the 1881 & 1891 census in Lanark, and on the 1901 census without Alexander Brown.
Alexander is definitely deceased by 1918 but it could have been well before this. According to the census he was born in Ireland around 1841.
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I can't easily see a marriage either :-\ It could have been an irregular marriage, or maybe they never married although stating they were.
What was the marital status of Annie in 1901?
Have you found Annie's death reg to confirm her parents?
Monica
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Alexander Brown showing as born in Londonderry in 1871:
Henry Hughes 28
Mary Ann Hughes 22 wife
Joseph McDerely 29 Boarder
Alexander Brown 31 Boarder Blacksmith b. Londonderry, Ireland
Address 195 Govan Rd, Govan
All four in this household showing as born in Londonderry, Ireland on the transcript I am looking at. Best to check the original image on SP in case there is a mix up on birth places.
Monica
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I wondered if Mary Ann Hughes could connect to Alexander but her maiden name looks to likely be Polly. Possible marriage for husband Henry Hughes and Mary Ann Polly on 23 Jan 1865 in Lisburn, Antrim.
Monica
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Found death certificate for Annie in 1919 in Glasgow, lists her as the widow of Alexander Brown. It's difficult to read so i've attached the image. I see father James Mitchell, mother Mary Jane (surname?).
In the 1901 census it doesn't have her full name, just 'Brown' and lists her as Head.
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From Annie Brown's death certificate, 1919.
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Darroch possibly for maiden name of Mary Jane.
Monica
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From another source for the 1901 census transcript, Annie Mitchell or Brown is showing already as a widow in 1901. Her birth place this year is showing as Kilbirnie, Ayrshire.
Monica
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Possible 1861 census entry for Annie? A little older:
William Sym 26
Mary Mitchell 49 Visitor b. Dreghorn, AYR
Annie Mitchell 18 Visitor milliner b. Kilmarnock, co ayr
Address 58 Lancefield St, Glasgow/ Anderston
Monica
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A possible sibling for Annie? From the OPRs baptisms on SP:
JOHN MITCHELL
JAMES MITCHELL/MARY JANE
30/04/1849
Ref 596 20 / 204
Kilbirnie, ayrshire
Maiden name for mother for this entry is not showing on the index.
Monica
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I've found a census entry from 1961 which sounds correct:
Father - James Mitchel
Mother - Mary Mitchel
Kilbirnie, Ayrshire
Ann
John
William
James
Mary
Andrew
Parents both born in Ireland, all children born in Kilbirnie.
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1851 census for same family
https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/59027ab0e9379091b11bdba9/james-mitchell-1851-ayrshire-ayr-1821-?locale=en
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That does like them in both 1851 and 1861 doesn't it.
Some possible deaths for siblings:
JANE MITCHEL
Age 13
Mother's maiden name DARROCH
1859
Ref 596 / 40
Kilbirnie
JOHN MITCHELL
Age 52
Mother's maiden name DARROCH
1901
Ref 598 / 22
Kilmaurs
Monica
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Thanks so much for your help with this, I now have Mary Jane Mitchell/Darroch's death certificate with her parents names (Peter Darroch & Anna McKenna). To get any further i'll need to get to grips with Irish records, which i've never had to use before. We had no idea there was any Irish on this side of the family so it's really interesting!
Similarly with James Mitchell - his parents are James Mitchell and Mary Murray, both Irish. And even Alexander Brown.
On another note, do you know have any sort of idea how frequent it is that a couple wouldn't have a marriage record in Scotland or why that would be the case?
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Did parents die in the 1860s? I saw this census below. The youngest one, Andrew born 1860, shows with big brother John in 1871:
John Mitchell 21 Ironstone Miner b. Kilbirnie
Elisabeth Mitchell 22 Bonnet Knitter b. Kilmaurs
Margaret B Mitchell 2 months
Andrew Mitchell 11 Brother b. Kilmaurs
Address Taylor Land, Kilmaurs
Monica
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On another note, do you know have any sort of idea how frequent it is that a couple wouldn't have a marriage record in Scotland or why that would be the case?
Have a look at this link www.gla.ac.uk/schools/socialpolitical/research/economicsocialhistory/projects/scottishwayofbirthanddeath/
Click on the 'Marriage' tab. Gives a good overview on marriage practices in Scotland at that time.
The whole report is very readable and gives a great insight into post start of official registration in Scotland.
Monica
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Mary Jane died in 1863, James Mitchell remarried in 1864 (to Agnes King) and then died in January 1871.
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Possible brother for James Mitchell. From deaths:
WILLIAM MITCHELL
Age 60
Mother's maiden name MURRAY
1875
Ref 596 / 78
Kilbirnie
Don't know if you have a subs to Ancestry. There is a family tree showing there for this William, born c. 1817 in Ireland, showing his parents as James Mitchell and Mary Murray www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/171247660/person/402220818311/facts
Monica
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I do - this looks likely, his address at the time of his death is on other records i've found.
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Another possible sibling is Margaret.
See www.rootschat.com/links/01stl/
For background on this database, see http://censussearchforms.nationalarchives.ie/search/cs/home.jsp
Monica
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This is Margaret's death on SP:
MARGARET MITCHELL or VERNAL
Age 72
Mother's maiden name MURRAY
1922
Ref 644 / 5 / 311
Garngadhill
And in 1891 with family:
John Vernal 41 Water Pipe Labourer b. Ireland
Margaret Vernal 42 Wife b. Ireland
John Vernal 18
Margaret J Vernal 16
Alice Vernal 11
Patrick Vernal 6 b. Glasgow
Cathon Vernal 2 b. Glasgow
Address 168 Millburn St, Glasgow/ Dennistoun
At the same address in 1901.
Monica
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Are they on the 1871 census as a married couple? If so - marriage was before census date
Not necessarily; for example (in my own family):
1911 Census
Tom Francis Greenland and Elizabeth Greenland
- married in 1937, after respective first spouses had died.
7 April 1861 Census
Edward Charles Green and Sarah Mary Green (false details)
- married under their real names (Charles Greene and Selina Greene) on 13 May 1861, after Charles's wife "drowned".
31 March 1901 Census
William Allum and Elizabeth Allum
- married on 29 July 1901, this being Elizabeth's fourth bigamous marriage.
1901 Census
Edward Ware and Florence Ware
- never married at all, Edward probably believing he was already legally married to Elizabeth (shown above as Allum).