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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: Miranda on Monday 27 November 23 22:28 GMT (UK)
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Hello all you military experts! I am researching my 3x Great Grandfather Ernest Klussman born Hannover, Germany 1800ish. In 1845, I have him down as being a Barrack Master in the 8th Hussars at Portobello Barracks in Dublin. I am struggling to find any other info for him. His son Ernest was born in the same place in 1845. Birth of son Ernest Klussman(1845–)
10 Jan 1845 • Portobello Barracks, Dublin, Ireland. I would love to know more about this family.
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Here is the transcription of the baptism of Ernest ‘Klushman’ 1845, father Ernest and Mother Georgina
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01stn/
Adelaide, born 1841, baptised the same day as Ernest
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01sto/
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Is this Adelaide’s birth?
1841 December quarter Chorlton
Adelaide Klussman - mother McLaren
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Here is that family in 1841
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MQG9-CY5
Ernest is a musician.
Is this your family?
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I can’t find military records which I know you are searching. However, I hope these bits help.
Ernest has a son, Henry, 4 yrs in 1841
1841 586/15/23 has Henry and Kate Klussman with two small children.
Henry, 40 yrs, born Foreign Parts is a Bandsmaster.
Kate is b Ireland. Maiden name Donn/Dann (perhaps Dunne or similar)?
Added
Is this Henry a brother to Ernest?
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Don't know if this is your man:
In 1881 "Ernest Klussmann" , widower, 76, no occupation given, born Hannover (British subject), is living with his son-in-law at 39 Bridge Street, Swindon.
In 1891, "Earnest Klusman", widower, 86, professor of music, born Hannover (British subject), is still living with his son-in-law, this time at 12 Somerleyton Road, Lambeth.
Wrexham Advertiser 18-3-1899:
KLUSSMAN - March 9th, aged 99 years, at the Queen's
Hotel, Oswestry, Ernest Klussman.
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Just wondering whether "barrack master" is a mistranscription of "band master".
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Ernest Klussman's daughter Adelaide was born in November 1841, in Dublin, per online trees. However there is a GRO record of the birth Adelaide Klussman in 4Q 1841 in Chorlton (Manchester).
Mother's maiden name McLaren.
8th Hussars were based in Manchester in November 1841 so that ties in.
There is a marriage in London in 1834 of Ernst Klussman and Mary Ann McLaren. But Ernest's wife in 1841 was Georgina.
It might well be worth checking that birth record!
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I see there was also an Ernest Klussman mmn McLaren born in St Pancras in 1843. (Same RD as death of Alice Catherine Klussman also in 1843).
ADDED
Baptism https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/1767719:1558
Parents Ernest & Mary Ann. Ernest a Professor of Music.
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Ernest was in Fulford, York circa 1842 per this 1843 directory entry:
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Baptism Parish Church, Leeds
Born 1st March 1840, baptised 3rd April 1840
Alice Catherine of Ernest (Music Master in 8th Hussars) and Georgiana Klussman
Alice was buried 1843, St Giles in the Field
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The possible brother, Henry that I mentioned in reply #4 had a child, Henry, baptised at the Cathedral,Manchester in 1846.
Henry snr is a Band Master, 76th Regiment at Salford Barracks.
There are newspaper snippets re recitals by H Klussman.
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Another baptism: Henry Ernest Klussman, baptised 8 January 1837, son of Ernest (a band master) and Mary.
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/86423:62467
What's going on ? Is "Georgina" the same person as "Mary Ann"?
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I think she must be.
I can’t see a Georgina in Scotlands People but there is a Mary Ann McLaren baptised 1805 in Edinburgh.
1861 shows her born Edinburgh but abt 1812.
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It seems likely that Ernst/Ernest Klussman was employed by the officers of 8th Hussars as a civilian band master, hence the absence of any military records for him.
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Thanks, Shaun.
I was going to ask why he is Professor of Music sometimes and Band Master at others.
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I have just been skimming through an article ‘Foreign Army Bandmasters : Theur Rise andFall’ https://www.jstor.org/
“ just eight years before the Crimean War, civilians and foreigners held the majority of the positions as bandmaster in the British Army.”
The only reference to Klussman that I can see is 9th Lancers.
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A couple of related threads here:
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=554402
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=787424
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Thanks, Maddy.
I saw those yesterday and hope we have helped a bit more. Miranda may come back to let us know. :)
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City of York Trade Directories 1843
Ernest Klussmann, band master
Fulford Road, Fulford.
Also a marriage record
Ernest Klussman, Mary Ann McLaren
1834 St Margaret, Westminster.
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Newspaper article 1859 states he was with Forfar Artillery as a band master in Sheerness.
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Newspaper article 1859 states he was with Forfar Artillery as a band master in Sheerness
I think that's Henry Klussman, not Ernest.
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Newspaper article 1859 states he was with Forfar Artillery as a band master in Sheerness
I think that's Henry Klussman, not Ernest.
HERR KLUSSMAN, band master, Forfar Artillery, begs to inform the gentry and inhabitants of Sheerness, that his son has arrived from London to give instruction on the piano-forte and cornet. Piano fortes tuned. Terms moderate. For particulars, apply 3 Neptune Terrace, Marine Town.
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"ERNEST KLUSSMAN OF OSWESTRY . - A fort- night ago we announced the death of Mr Ernest Klussman . Mr Klussman was born in Hanover on August 30th , 1799. In his early youth he became such a proficient player on the French horn and trumpet ..."
A snippet of an obituary from "Bye-gones Relating to Wales and the Border Counties 1899" page 74
https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Bye_gones_Relating_to_Wales_and_the_Bord/hIwVAAAAYAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=ernest+klussman+of+oswestry&dq=ernest+klussman+of+oswestry&printsec=frontcover
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Another snippet:
"In 1835 Herr Ernst Klussman , a horn player in the private band of George IV , and later bandmaster of the Ninth Lancers.."
https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Hinrichsen_s_Musical_Year_Book/mmZOAAAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=%22ernst+klussman%22+george&dq=%22ernst+klussman%22+george&printsec=frontcover
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"... the renowned Klussman, who claimed to be the originator of the brass band"
https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/The_Cavalry_Journal/IpkjAQAAIAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=%22klussmann%22+hussars&pg=PA344&printsec=frontcover
Perhaps he was bandmaster of 9th Lancers before he was with 8th Hussars.
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The article I mentioned earlier, if I recall, seemed to imply that the band masters were employed as civilians but had quite a few privileges e.g. visiting the officers’ mess etc.
I presume, then, that there was movement within regimental bands just as any other employment.