RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Topic started by: mepeters1 on Sunday 17 December 23 16:04 GMT (UK)
-
Good afternoon,
Could anyone help (before I spend £14 and order a marriage certificate)
My Great Grandmother: Lily Martha Safia Elizabeth Leetooze (1894 - 1986) parents were Tryphena Penrose and James Lee Tooze.
I have found a baptism for (on ancestry)
Record details
Name James Lee Tooze
Baptism Date 22 Nov 1861
Baptism Place Ottery St Mary, Devon, England
Religion Anglican
Mother Elizabeth
I am unable to find him on the birth register, I have searched GRO.
I am guessing the only way I will find his parents is through ordering his marriage certificate, unless you lovely lot have any suggestions.
Many Thanks
Michelle xxx
-
Could anyone help (before I spend £14 and order a marriage certificate)
Not answering your question but marriage certificates are £11 :-\
https://www.gov.uk/order-copy-birth-death-marriage-certificate
If he was illegitimate it is unlikely that his father would be named
-
ow okay. I thought they were £14 on GRO
Thanks
Michelle
-
I think he is on the GRO but registered as James Tooze. Honiton registration district March Quarter 1861.
The mother's maiden name is down as a line suggesting illegitimacy. Might be worth getting the digital image off the GRO as it only costs £2.50 in case there are some clues on it but realistically, Dad might not be on there. Perhaps his father was a Mr Lee?
-
There's a James Tooze, 7 weeks old, on the 1861 Census - Ottery St Mary. Head of household is Elizabeth Tooze, unmarried.
There's a James Tooze birth registration 1st qtr 1861 at Honiton, Devon - no maiden name present.,
-
There's a James Tooze, 7 weeks old, on the 1861 Census - Ottery St Mary. Head of household is Elizabeth Tooze, unmarried.
There's a James Tooze birth registration 1st qtr 1861 at Honiton, Devon - no maiden name present.,
and also another sibling called Ellen, aged 2.
-
Thank you.
The 1861 census, you are looking at, it also has an Ellen Tooze on?
Many Thanks
-
Ellen was registered at Honiton also 1859
-
Ellens marriage in 1886 does not name a father
-
Thank you.
The 1861 census, you are looking at, it also has an Ellen Tooze on?
Many Thanks
Hi
Yes, 2 year old Ellen is with them, named as Elizabeth's daughter. There may be some Bastardy records about that might name the father but not guaranteed.
It might be worth getting the digital image from GRO as you will get it instantly to download and see what address Elizabeth was at when she gave birth to see if that helps with anything.
I wonder if its Mr Lee as often illegitimate children did have their father's name like that.
-
How do I search bastady records?
I cannot find his record of birth, do you mean to order the baptism?
Many Thanks
-
Thank you.
The 1861 census, you are looking at, it also has an Ellen Tooze on?
Many Thanks
Hi
Yes, 2 year old Ellen is with them, named as Elizabeth's daughter. There may be some Bastardy records about that might name the father but not guaranteed.
It might be worth getting the digital image from GRO as you will get it instantly to download and see what address Elizabeth was at when she gave birth to see if that helps with anything.
I wonder if its Mr Lee as often illegitimate children did have their father's name like that.
I had checked Honiton for possible "Mr Lees" on the basis of Lee smacking of surname.
Ellen was baptised 17th Apr 1859, mother Elizabeth Tooze-Dudd, single woman - abode Butts
-
They could possibly be online or at a stretch something recorded in the local newspapers (I'll have a look).
If you go on the GRO (gro.gov.uk) he is there if you just search for James Tooze and drop the Lee part. The birth is registered in March Quarter 1861 in Honiton. I'll see if I can find the baptism online as Findmypast has a lot of Devon records to see if it holds more information than Ancestry has.
-
Ruth is this the record on GRO with no mothers maiden name, named?
Many Thanks
-
The original baptism is on Findmypast.
James Lee Tooze was privately baptised on 22 November 1861 and was born at Yonder Street, Ottery St Mary. No father and Elizabeth is described as a single woman.
Private baptism might suggest he was unwell at the time and done urgently.
-
Ruth is this the record on GRO with no mothers maiden name, named?
Many Thanks
Hi
yes, it is - its just a line but the baptism I've just posted gives an address of Yonder Street where he was living when he was baptised so the certificate might not give much more
-
There is also a baptism of a Frank Tooze, mother Elizabeth - Single woman - abode Sandhill Street - 17th May 1868 :-\
Ellens baptism has been entered as Surname Loose - Dudd
-
FindMyPast baptism (transcript only)
Ottery St Mary, Elizabeth Tooze Deb or Dudd, bap 12 July 1835, parents Robert and Jane.
The age fits the Elizabeth on the '61 Census.
There are various Toose/Twose/Toose Dudd baptisms, Ottery St Mary, parents Robert/Jane, 1833 - 1843.
-
and Fred, baptised 20 July 1873, also Ottery St Mary.
So that's potentially 4 illegitimate children?
actually can that - 5 now?
there is an Emma born of Elizabeth Twose, single woman, baptised 25 December 1864 Ottery St Mary. Gives address as Butts
-
Elizabeth is with husband Efrem Hoare in 1881 plus Ellen & Frank. Also a son of Efrem & Elizabeth Charles T Hoare
-
Summary for the sake of my brain:
Ellen, baptised 17 April 1859 (as Tooze-Dudd)
James Lee, baptised 22 November 1861
Emma, baptised 25 December 1864
Frank, baptised 17 May 1868
Fred, baptised 20 July 1873
-
Elizabeth is with husband Efrem Hoare in 1881 plus Ellen & Frank. Also a son of Efrem & Elizabeth Charles T Hoare
Charles Ephraim Tooze baptised as son of Elizabeth Tooze, single woman on 30 November 1878. She must have married Mr Hoare after.
-
Marriage Mar qtr 1879
HOARE Ephraim
Tooze Elizabeth
Honiton 5b 39
-
Ruth
are you getting all of this from ancestry?
could I private message you please? x
-
Is a private message necessary as there are others on this post trying to help you. Ottery baptism records are on FindMyPast
-
Yes, sorry I am thankful to everyone that has answered x
-
Emma was buried 1 January 1865 and Fred on 6 October 1874. Both Ottery St Mary
On the Devon Burials on FindMyPast
-
Is it something that the rest of us can't help with then :-\
-
rosie 99
No not at all.
More of the fact I have no access to these records
Sorry if I upset you.
Michelle x
-
Hi Michelle, that is ok you did not upset me. I just wondered why a PM was necessary.
Leaving you to it now as it is time to eat.
Rosie :)